It really depends on what is important to you versus the cost difference. I picked the VDC (2001) because of the VDC technology, the McIntosh audio system, the extra sound proofing, and the rear wheel bias. Also, my wife didn't want the bean logos. To us, it was worth it. Buy the one that makes you smile the most.
Mikke said it all better than I could. I agree 100%. The VDC is so smooth on the highway, and if audio is important, then the McIntosh is well worth the extra cost. I have the 02, but the 03 comes with a multiple CD changer which I wish I had.
We test drove both twice back in the beginning of 2001 in snow, etc. The difference then was about $2700. Did the "try-to-spin-out" test in the VDC. It worked, but we weren't impressed. Other car manufacturers were charging around $600. - 700. for their VDC at the time.
Didn't really compare the radio during the test drives, since we calculated it to be around $2000. Way too much for a Subaru. The deciding factor for us - beleive it or not - was that the two-tone tan leather in the LLBean with black exterior was better looking than the one-tone dark grey leather.
The LLBean has extra insulation as part of the H6 upgrade to the Outback. The noise in the Outback cabin comes from the roof and the side mirrors, nothing will fix it short of no moonroof and thicker glass (and, of course a new design to both - 2005?).
So, we bought the LLBean 2/1/01 and it has performed flawlessly for the past 44K miles. Knock on plastic wood (which they both have)...
Can't wait for the wider, monotone black, memory-driver seat (did I forget something?) 2005 LLBean...
well I didn't make a good link...been I while since I have used HTML obviously! you can click on the text in my previous message or go to http://home.attbi.com/~willoc/VDC1.jpg
well, almost done breaking in the VDC...about 800 miles on it now...can't wait to actually rev the motor up. So here is the skinny on adding an iPod (or any other MP3 player, etc). Since there is no cassette deck you can't use a cassette adapter. Those wireless FM transmitters are probably OK if you live in the country, but there is not a single unused FM channel in Dallas so you get tons of interference. I went to a local radio shop and had a hard-wired FM transmitter installed (it plugs directly into the antennae input jack in the back of the head unit). Only cost about $75 including labor and it has crystal clear sound compared to the wireless one. I don't recommend installing it by yourself, it took them a good two hours to pull apart the dash, etc., I used to be a mechanic and it didn't look like much fun to me.
Looking to purchase a Subaru outback for the first time. During today's visit to the dealer, we found a titanium 2003 VDC model with an MSRP of around $34,500. The dealer's invoice is $29K. The dealer would not go below $30K for the car and it has 6,100 miles. I guess since it's a demo it's still considered "new" and they do not extend the 3/36-5/60K warranties. They are offering a $2000 rebate or 0% financing for 60 months. Is this a good deal? Seems like a high price for what I'd consider a "used" car, based on some of the commentary I've read on the message board so far. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!!
Not sure from your message whether the 30k price is before or after the 2k rebate. Take a look at Edmunds TMV for a new 03. In my area, they show a 33.2 msrp, 30k invoice and a TMV of 30382 to which a $1000 rebate is deducted. A local dealer's price for an 04 shows an invoice of 32495 and a selling price of 29495 to which a rebate of $500 is deducted. (Don't forget to add freight to these prices). So, is the 2k rebate bring you to 30k or subtracted from it? What's a new 04 going for?
A new car with 6100 miles is not a new car. It has undoubtedly been used as an "executive" car, a perk for one of the salesfolk to use as their own, and to use as a demo as needed by the dealer.
The warranty should not be affected, and you probably won't have any problems if you buy it, but I, for one, think $2000 off is not enough. I would ask for $4 or 5K off for all the miles on the car. Think of it this way. Most cars sit on the lot for a few weeks before they are sold, acquiring (maybe) a few hundred test-drive miles at the most. This car has been acquiring test-drive miles for 6 months or so.
Remember all the times you took a hot car out for a test drive. How gentle were you? Did you warm it up properly? Did you wind it up to see what it would do? Did you find some good bumps to blast over, and some good corners to negotiate? 6100 miles of that can take its toll.
I have a 2001 VDC and have noticed 'bubbles' in the headliner on the rear sunroof. I have contacted the dealer and am awaiting a call back from them. Something tells me this is going to be a pain to remedy. Has anyone else experienced similar problems??
I've never noticed that it was damp. There are no signs of discoloration due to water so I'm thinking it hasn't been wet. I never take it through those auto washes and it is garaged at night. The good thing is it's still under warranty so it will be a dealer fix. I'm still dreading the process. The closest dealer to me is over an hour away and I doubt it will be a 'fix while you wait' type thing.
I had the McIntosh stereo staticy knobs and they replaced the whole unit about a month ago. Other than that and the brake squeel fix I've had no problems. I really love this car.
Hi, sorry if that is off topic, but could someone please send me the link with front end cover installation how-to's Those stone chips don't look good on my wife's LL-Bean...
Just be aware that pulling the headliner is a big job... something like 4-6 hours if I recall correctly. It involves pulling all the trim, dome lights, visors and all. I say this just to give you something to think about. If there doesn't appear to be a leak and the bubbles are just cosmetics you might not want the dealer to pull it and potentially create another problem.
Thanks for the info. I figured it would be a mess. The thing is it's only on the part that 'moves' with the rear sunroof. I'm hoping that it will mean just pulling that part and fixing it. We'll see. Still haven't heard from the dealer today with their thoughts.
I am pretty sure that would also require a headliner removal. I think you can trick that cover to close even with the sun roof open. Then you could take a look at it from outside. But regardless if it is only "that" cover I would not have the headliner pulled to fix it. Just my personal opinion. Good luck.
Anyone ever get the rear sunroof cover off track? My 6 yr. old daughter hit it w/ her hand Sunday and it is jammed up above the track. Can't get the cover down into its track and can't get it to slide forward/backward.
I'm afraid to open the sunroof - it's a shame because we are having an Indian Summer today...
I spoke to the dealer this morning. They said that the moving sunshade part of the rear sunroof can come off it's track (Hey!?) and that can cause it to get bubbles. I don't open the rear sunroof much because of my 8 month old and pointed this out to the tech. He said it would only take one time for it to be off track. They can switch out just that part and have already ordered it. He said it would be an all day job which is the worst part. I'll keep you posted. I hope this helps the gentleman with the 6-year old!
Bubbles? My cover is just jammed up into the sunroof area. I haven't used the sunroof since it happened last weekend.
There are 2 spring-type clips on each side, but can't figure out how to slide it into them. I'm hoping my dealer will be able to pop it in tonight or tomorrow morning. If a 6 yr. old popped it out, I hope a mechanic can pop it back in a minute (and, most importantly, not charge me!).
now you're scaring me. I looked at the bubbles again today and wondered how long I can live with them. Thing is if they just get worse and then it's out of warranty I'm stuck. Unless I want to pay what I'm guessing would be pretty big bucks to have it fixed out of warranty.
I'm considering an '04 VDC - not too thrilled about the Onstar system being standard, but I don't know much about it. I believe the minimum service is about $15 per month. I almost feel like I'd have to subscribe since its taking up space on the center console.
It's been awhile since I've posted here, I've been too busy piling on the miles on my '01 VDC (now at 71K miles).
Here's my problem- sometimes after inserting a cd into the Mac, the disc doesn't start for about 15-20 seconds, and then an "ER-3", or an "ER-6" message appears on the display. If I eject the disc and put it back in, somnetimes it plays, or I get the same or the other error message. It also happens if I've left a disc in the player (which means the disc worked the last time I was in the car, and now it isn't). It seems pretty random- a disc works one day and not the next.
Only problem I ever had was with a short which caused static whenever I adjusted the volume. Subaru replaced the radio and the problem came back again and they replaced it a second time with a newer version (w/o notches on the volume control) No problems in the past year and never any error messages. Can we assume that your cds are pristine clean and dirty cds are not the cause?
when you're trying to insert the cd's? Some units will refuse to play a cd when cold as the internals need to warm up a bit and/or the cd may have condensation on it.
I had that happen on my Miata's OE CD player. Major condensation, it was really weird. The CD would not play at all, in fact it would spit it out. I dry it and it plays. Bizarre.
The problem isn't just a cold weather one, it was happening for a while- even in the summer.
I called McIntosh directly, and they thought it sounded like a transport problem- but I'd have to go through Subaru. Which I would have anyway- I have the extended warranty and the radio is covered.
I called the local Subie dealer, and they said all they do is take out the unit and send it to McIntosh. It either gets replaced or repaired and then returned. Takes about 10 days (yeah- we'll see....).
And the cd's are clean. Like I had said, sometimes it happens when I leave a cd in the unit that was playing when I turned off the car, and when I turn the car back on I get the error message.
I wrote this to 3 different boards at different times (no cross posting for me!), and no one else has indicated they have this problem.
Oh well- it's off to the dealer in January to get it looked at. And even if they can't recreate the problem (it is intermittent), I've taken pictures of the display with the error messages on it. They can't deny those.
Thanks, and I will let you all know what happened.
Could someone tell me how to get the OEM wiper off my 2002 VDC outback so I can replace it with a new one? It is either stuck or I am doing something wrong. Thanks. Gary
Hmm, are you changing just the refillable rubber blade, or the entire wiper structure?
I just changed the ones on my Forester, the entire wiper. You have to push in a little tab, then slide the wiper out. IIRC it slid down, towards the base.
The wiper arm is a U-hook on mine. Just one metal piece, everything else came off with the wiper structure.
There may be diagrams with the new packagin, check that out. I didn't take pics.
Thanks juice. Once I understood that it probably was a u hook I pulled a lot harder and they finally came off. (Then I got stuck trying to get the hood released to fill the wiper fluid reservior--am I getting that old?). Gary
Do you have any information on jump starting a top of the line $32,783.00 Subaru with VDC? Our local dealer and the people at Subaru of America, including the Western Regional Manager say according to their tech training you can't and act like we should know it. Subaru Road Service, other dealers and our manual know nothing about it. We are concerned about future repairs on our 2001, 30,000 mile H6. Here's why we ask: The battery went down on our top of the line Subaru with VDC. It was jump started by Subaru Road Service. The warning lights remained on after it was jumped. Waited for our 1/22/04 appointment with dealer. At first service said we were warranty "lucky" because the VDC computer part cost $1,200. It was replaced. Car not returned as promised. More parts needed. It's now 1/29/04. Again car not returned as promised. Negotiated 4 days Hyundai rental for previously planed trip. Service now says repair not covered under warranty because of "outside influence". (Subaru of America, NJ, says to collect from the towing service hired by Subaru Road Service) Western regional manager concurred. Filed with the State. Car towed to other dealer. Returned 2/14/04. We still had to pay for the 4 day rental.
When you say that the car was not returned as promised, what do you mean?
Some cars can actually be damaged by jump-starting. My friends Chrysler minivan actually says in the manual that jump-starting it can potentially damage the on-board computer. This is likely what caused damage to the VDC control unit. Keep in mind that the warranty does not include free loaner cars for the duration of repairs. Some dealers provide cars as a courtesy, but that depends on what was offered when you purchased the car.
Did they say what caused the troubles starting? It is possible that the battery needs replacement, the charging system could be faulty or it was very cold when starting.
Future repair concerns? The H6 motor is virtually bulletproof. It is one of the better engines Subaru has produced and you will see very few problems posted on these "Subaru problems" boards. Of course there will be the usual maintenance, alternators, batteries, etc... but this is true for every car.
Tend to the battery instead, and don't worry about jump starts.
Every year, check the water level and add distilled water when necessary. At the beginning of winter, have the battery load tested. You coulde even pre-emptively replace the battery every 5 years.
You can usually see it coming. If it cranks over more slowly, don't wait, get a new battery right away.
I once was stranded in CT on a frigid day, luckily we had family there and got a battery within hours.
My '02 VDC sedan started showing transmission anomalies at about 5K. "Hunting" on upshifts when you were backing out of the throttle, harmonic-feeling vibration at low road speeds sometimes (felt like road irregularity, but not repeatable on same road), occasional clunky downshifts. I complained at each service interval, but dealer could not find a problem. At 25,000, it completely disintegrated inside as I hit an off-ramp and it started downshifting. Replaced under warranty.
After 5K on new trans, I'm seeing different symptoms. Odd vibration sometimes at rest, "slack" in take up when starting from standstill (like the diff isn't staying spooled up), and sometimes clunky shifts. Anybody else have trans problems with this car? I'm getting scared of it--by the time the second trans fails, I'll be waaay out of warranty.
Call 800-SUBARU3 and file a "customer says" report. Later if it fails you can prove you had identified the problem well before the warranty expired. The key is to document it all.
The H6 is realiable so you're having bum luck, sorry.
Lots of changes since last I signed in here. Site seems to be considerably slower than it used to be. I now have over 3 years and nearly 80,000 miles on my 01 VDC. Except for warping front rotors after long drives the first 60,000 mi was pretty trouble free. Got 26 - 28 mpg in high speed highway driving and original tires lasted about 70,000. Around the 60K mark I started to get a whine that sounded like differential gear lash on steady pull or acceleration. Dealer in Oregon couldn't find problem. Moved to Las Vegas and whine got so bad that car sounded like a jet turbine winding up. Dealer here replaced entire transmission. Said planitary gears were the problem. Cost: about $4500. Replaced troublesome rotors as well. cost: another $435 (my pocketbook this time). Noise is gone and now I can hear another sound. Seems to come from right front. Dealer checks and its a wheel bearing. Cost:$376.25. Noise still present. Dealer checks and its left front wheelbearing. Cost:$367.92. Car now quiet and seems to be normal again. At shopping center and car won't start. Only a clicking sound. Jump doesn't help. $100 tow to dealer. Defective starter found.Replaced at cost of $ 344.70. Ok again for about a week when dash lights appear dim and starting sluggish. Dealer checks and alternator only putting out 37 amps instead of 90 as rated. Replaced alternator. Cost $546.70. All seems OK again. More power and better mileage after new alternator. Moral of story is its GOOD to buy Subaru extended warranty. If things keep on I've got another 20,000 and I'll need to get a new one as I can't afford all these expensive repairs.Still like the car though and as long as Subaru keeps fixing it at no cost to me I'm pretty happy. Only major expense to me was the rotors and tires. Cost to extended warranty in last 6 months has been over $6100. Only major thing to replace now is the motor but seems to be running better than ever.
Yes, everything was covered except the rotors. Extended warranty even paid the state sales tax.Dealer was kind and provided a rental or loaner each time car spent over a few hours in the shop.The rotors actually should have been covered as well as they were defective. I'm not hard on brakes. Original pads lasted over 60,000 mi but the rotors just wanted to warp after every long fast drive. At first they would straighten themselves when they cooled down but after several sessions they stayed warped. Had rotors turned once but problem reoccurred after short time. There must have been a defect when manufactured. No problem with new rotors.
Comments
Didn't really compare the radio during the test drives, since we calculated it to be around $2000. Way too much for a Subaru. The deciding factor for us - beleive it or not - was that the two-tone tan leather in the LLBean with black exterior was better looking than the one-tone dark grey leather.
The LLBean has extra insulation as part of the H6 upgrade to the Outback. The noise in the Outback cabin comes from the roof and the side mirrors, nothing will fix it short of no moonroof and thicker glass (and, of course a new design to both - 2005?).
So, we bought the LLBean 2/1/01 and it has performed flawlessly for the past 44K miles. Knock on plastic wood (which they both have)...
Can't wait for the wider, monotone black, memory-driver seat (did I forget something?) 2005 LLBean...
Ralph
I'm real excited about this car, it looks even better than what I remember (first titanium one I saw was sold about 6 months ago, you sure don't/won't see many of these). It really is a great color.
I thought you were being creative ;-)
Mmmmm titanium.... drool.... Nice
-Dave
Bob
-juice
Ralph
Thanks
-juice
It has undoubtedly been used as an "executive"
car, a perk for one of the salesfolk to use as
their own, and to use as a demo as needed by the
dealer.
The warranty should not be affected, and you
probably won't have any problems if you buy
it, but I, for one, think $2000 off is not
enough. I would ask for $4 or 5K off for
all the miles on the car. Think of it this way.
Most cars sit on the lot for a few weeks before
they are sold, acquiring (maybe) a few hundred
test-drive miles at the most. This car has
been acquiring test-drive miles for 6 months
or so.
Remember all the times you took a hot car out
for a test drive. How gentle were you?
Did you warm it up properly? Did you wind
it up to see what it would do? Did you find
some good bumps to blast over, and some good
corners to negotiate? 6100 miles of that
can take its toll.
Just my 2 cents worth.
DB
My concern would be perhaps it's a water leak? Ever notice it was damp?
-juice
I had the McIntosh stereo staticy knobs and they replaced the whole unit about a month ago. Other than that and the brake squeel fix I've had no problems. I really love this car.
sorry if that is off topic, but could someone please send me the link with front end cover installation how-to's
Those stone chips don't look good on my wife's LL-Bean...
bit
bit
Anyone ever get the rear sunroof cover off track? My 6 yr. old daughter hit it w/ her hand Sunday and it is jammed up above the track. Can't get the cover down into its track and can't get it to slide forward/backward.
I'm afraid to open the sunroof - it's a shame because we are having an Indian Summer today...
Thanks,
Ralph
There are 2 spring-type clips on each side, but can't figure out how to slide it into them. I'm hoping my dealer will be able to pop it in tonight or tomorrow morning. If a 6 yr. old popped it out, I hope a mechanic can pop it back in a minute (and, most importantly, not charge me!).
I'll report next week...
Thanks,
Ralph
bit
Decisions Decisions.
Any impressions from Onstar subscribers?
There is an OnStar dedicated topic you may want to check out.
-juice
Here's my problem- sometimes after inserting a cd into the Mac, the disc doesn't start for about 15-20 seconds, and then an "ER-3", or an "ER-6" message appears on the display. If I eject the disc and put it back in, somnetimes it plays, or I get the same or the other error message. It also happens if I've left a disc in the player (which means the disc worked the last time I was in the car, and now it isn't). It seems pretty random- a disc works one day and not the next.
Anybody else have this problem??
Dukephoto
-Brian
-juice
I called McIntosh directly, and they thought it sounded like a transport problem- but I'd have to go through Subaru. Which I would have anyway- I have the extended warranty and the radio is covered.
I called the local Subie dealer, and they said all they do is take out the unit and send it to McIntosh. It either gets replaced or repaired and then returned. Takes about 10 days (yeah- we'll see....).
And the cd's are clean. Like I had said, sometimes it happens when I leave a cd in the unit that was playing when I turned off the car, and when I turn the car back on I get the error message.
I wrote this to 3 different boards at different times (no cross posting for me!), and no one else has indicated they have this problem.
Oh well- it's off to the dealer in January to get it looked at. And even if they can't recreate the problem (it is intermittent), I've taken pictures of the display with the error messages on it. They can't deny those.
Thanks, and I will let you all know what happened.
Dukephoto
I just changed the ones on my Forester, the entire wiper. You have to push in a little tab, then slide the wiper out. IIRC it slid down, towards the base.
The wiper arm is a U-hook on mine. Just one metal piece, everything else came off with the wiper structure.
There may be diagrams with the new packagin, check that out. I didn't take pics.
-juice
-juice
Steve, Host
The battery went down on our top of the line Subaru with VDC. It was jump started by Subaru Road Service. The warning lights remained on after it was jumped. Waited for our 1/22/04 appointment with dealer. At first service said we were warranty "lucky" because the VDC computer part cost $1,200. It was replaced. Car not returned as promised. More parts needed. It's now 1/29/04. Again car not returned as promised. Negotiated 4 days Hyundai rental for previously planed trip. Service now says repair not covered under warranty because of "outside influence". (Subaru of America, NJ, says to collect from the towing service hired by Subaru Road Service) Western regional manager concurred. Filed with the State. Car towed to other dealer. Returned 2/14/04. We still had to pay for the 4 day rental.
When you say that the car was not returned as promised, what do you mean?
Some cars can actually be damaged by jump-starting. My friends Chrysler minivan actually says in the manual that jump-starting it can potentially damage the on-board computer. This is likely what caused damage to the VDC control unit. Keep in mind that the warranty does not include free loaner cars for the duration of repairs. Some dealers provide cars as a courtesy, but that depends on what was offered when you purchased the car.
Did they say what caused the troubles starting? It is possible that the battery needs replacement, the charging system could be faulty or it was very cold when starting.
Future repair concerns? The H6 motor is virtually bulletproof. It is one of the better engines Subaru has produced and you will see very few problems posted on these "Subaru problems" boards. Of course there will be the usual maintenance, alternators, batteries, etc... but this is true for every car.
Every year, check the water level and add distilled water when necessary. At the beginning of winter, have the battery load tested. You coulde even pre-emptively replace the battery every 5 years.
You can usually see it coming. If it cranks over more slowly, don't wait, get a new battery right away.
I once was stranded in CT on a frigid day, luckily we had family there and got a battery within hours.
-juice
After 5K on new trans, I'm seeing different symptoms. Odd vibration sometimes at rest, "slack" in take up when starting from standstill (like the diff isn't staying spooled up), and sometimes clunky shifts. Anybody else have trans problems with this car? I'm getting scared of it--by the time the second trans fails, I'll be waaay out of warranty.
The H6 is realiable so you're having bum luck, sorry.
-juice
I think it does cover the bearings and starter, plus the tow up to $100 IIRC.
Alternator? Probably also.
Call 800-SUBARU3, they might have helped offset some of those costs. Though nothing on there seems to be common on the VDC from what I've read here.
-juice (who has Subaru Gold 7/100 on his Legacy)