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I can't imagine how you could do better on resale value than on a late-model BMW, unless they figured out how to make a car that increased in value as a used car. As I mentioned before, the depreciation in my opinion is less than the actual wear and tear on the car. This is a market anomally, in my opinion.
I know that VA lowered the car taxes recently but you still live in a high tax state. The main detriment to the trade-it-in every two to three years approach is the hassle factor and the high transaction taxes that you would experience. Depreciation isn't much of an issue.
As one who put 30K a year on a car (in a rural environment) I found it useful to keep two cars. Your insurance situation back east may prevent this approach, though. There is a lot to be said for having a spare car. It can fulfill a niche in your needs that the BMW can't. For example, a pickup, or, 4X4, sports car or Station Wagon.
The only person who arguably makes out better than you, the new car buyer, is the impecunious gear head who buys your car with 150K miles for 7K. He drives it for 50K-75K more miles, puts maybe 2K into it, and sells it for maybe 3K.
When the time came, I would look for an interesting used car with depreciation greatly in excess of the intrinsic utility of the vehicle, i.e., the opposite of your BMW.
If you decide you don't like the two car arrangement, you can bail out at any point, at reasonable cost, because your cars are already highly depreciated
The life of your sedan is extended because the "new" used car takes some of the mileage load off of it. You save a lot in taxes. You satisfy your car Jones at reasonable cost. You can drop down to minimal insurance on the old car. Its a possibility, anyway.
Ask a Honda dealer how they've been doing with their Oddyseys. :-)
My enjoyment of the BMW is great. I love getting behind the wheel and don't mind the road trips. I don't have that feeling w/ the Intrepid. I know it would be best to buy something like a 2-3 year old Intrepid and run it into the ground but it doesn't give me the satisfaction when I'm behind the wheel for 6 hrs in a day. I guess that means I'm stuck or should I say stupid to feel I should go with upper end type cars(I prefer sport and luxury) with an emphasis on sport.
Our taxes in VA are 3% of the purchase price and our personal property tax has been cut to about 75% on vehicles up to $20k in value. not too bad. Insurance is cheap here to.
From your post sounds like it is almost a wash on a BMW to sell every 3 years as it is to sell after 6 years. I assumed that if I sold at the end of this year my '00 w/ 75k ticks I could get $18k(private party) and if I sold end of 2006 w/ 150k ticks I could get $7k. This equates to a cost of ownership(of vechicle purchase price only) of $5,000/yr and 4,333/yr, respectively assuming purchase price of $33k. Not much of a difference. The later does not consider tires(every 30-35k miles and I'll need 4 more sets to get to 150 as I'm due for a set in the next 15k miles), repairs etc, brakes and just maintenance so the 5k and 4,333 difference is even smaller if not in the others favor.
Is my logic correct here or am I missing the boat. Thanks for your input
Car_man
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Bill
Trade after a year or run it tillit dies.
OR...
Buy a 99 now with 20K on it and sell it a year from now with 45K
Bill
Black here in FL.
Dark Green, Bronze, Brown, Yellow outside of "Pocket-Rocket" type (IS300,M3, Focus ZX3, etc..) cars, Light Greens, etc...
Bill
And your car is worth $4,500-5K if its super super nice.
Bill
Yes, it appears to be pretty much of a wash. If you run it into the ground, you gain the natural cost advantage of operating a car that way, which is the cheapest way to operate almost any other car. Of course, you largely give up the resale advantage of owning a BMW, because the cachet does largely disappear after 5-6 years and high miles.
You run a risk that the used car market might drop shortly after you buy your BMW, but that's not so bad. You just switch to the run-it-into-the-ground approach. Its a Beemer, after all.
The idea of trading in a perfectly good car that you like every two or three years rubs me the wrong way, but it appears to be fairly economic with the BMW, if you live in a low tax, low insurance environment. If you use the car for business, this is a considerable advantage. Socially, your neighbors will think you are some sort of high-roller (or secret drug dealer) for doing this.
The only thing that you may have not accounted for would be opportunity cost. That is, you would constantly have 30K tied up in a car. On the other hand, your car would almost never be out of warranty.
I wonder who these people are who buy a year old car with 15-20K miles on it in order to save $2,000?
P.S. with respect to Odyssey, relative was offered new one for less than invoice last week. Relative liked Toyota better. Car market is quite regional.
If I sell every 3 years and buy vehicles that maintain high resale values each time I don't think I loose too much. Besides a BMW what other vehicles maintain very good resale values. I'm sure you'll say Toyota and Honda but neither offer the type of fun to drive car I like. Acura TL-S(assuming it goes to a RWD platform for the 2004 re-design) is a possibility. Audi?
You're in Hillsboro County I assume... SO IIRC, its' 6% tax plus 1% surcharge, but only on the first $5,000 of the difference ($50).
Yes you get Sales tax trade-in credit.
OTOH, I think you should pop that puppy in the west coast Auto Trader for $6,900/bo and Grab $6,500 or so. Those little stick-shift Hondaish coupes are hot down here... you may sell it quickly.
If you get stuck, lemme know... I have no use for it, but I can put you in touch with people who can use it. Also there's a guy on Adamo drive down by you... Brandon Motorsports.. he advertises a lot of hi-po Hondas with hi miles.
Bill
No miles, you didnt say how many doors ir had, butthen you said the driver's side doors had been painted. OK, you avoided being sent to your room without a modem.
Barely. Just barely
Ok, so we have an honest description here, thats good. Without the right info I cant help ya guys! (I.E. that 300M that had been rear-ended...tsk tsk... we need to know that kinda stuff!)
The Accord is worth, as it sits, $6,000 perfect. But since it would recognize the inside of a paint booth, and it has a dingy front bumper, and a starbucks monster attacked your poor carpets....
We're gonna go with the "Latte-Maaco" deduct of a solid $500. In reality, I think that its a $5,300 car wholesale, but could easily see it pull 5500.
Miles overcome a bit here.
Retail? $7,700/bo, Grab $7K. I dont think you have to let it go for a dime less than that.
Bill
Where? I'll buy em and gladly pay a finder's fee.
Although I think it only fair toshare the action with Terry.
YO TERRY, you want in onthis?
Bill
I think I'm going to go to my room anyway. It will get me an earlier start tomorrow on putting another 500 or so miles on the odometer.
Another question ...
I've seen your's and Terry's remarks about the used car market being up. Do you think this is just seasonal trends, and, if so, doesn't this usually take until about late June or July to turn around? Any bargains in particular segments?
Now if I can just figure out Gulf States' Toyota options I'll be doing well.
I found this one just yesterday but don't know
how to credit for the low mileage:
'93 Lexus ES300, black, loaded, excellent condition ... only 30k miles (in NoCal)
Owner wants $16k (yeah, right) ... I'm thinking
about $10k or less. Does that sound about right?
Thanks. Now, how do I get this past the wife ... hmmm
JP
There gets to be a point that the 'low miles' aren't gonna buy you a whole lotta extra dough (like, perhaps, at nine years).
Wow, we're all asleep too?
Peachtree, the market, since 1-1-02 has been really really hot. Some stuff has come back in a BIG way, some stuff hasn't. 94-97 Accords havent like I would have thought, but someof the highline stuff is through the roof, Explorers...Expeditions... heck, most everything is much higher now. I dont think its all that seasonal either really.
But this is NOT an easily predictable business, nor one you can use percentages on.
Bill
"Gee.. whats tissue on mop N glo?"
At $6K I think you either met a dumb UC Mgr, or are getting O/A'd myself.,, see what they will do on a new car. If they wont comedown past, say, $1,500 over invoice on an 02 Camry, but youre at $6K on trade, still a strong deal.
So see what the difference comes to.
Bill
There's a big Mercedes store here
Maybe you're thinking of Altamonte Springs? Sanford? "Beautiful South Orlando" (Florida Mall)..etc..
For shopping, you wanna go to the Orlando Premium Outlets in Lake Buena Vista (Hwy 535 and I-4) anyways.
Ermenegildo Zegna, La Perla, Bottega Veneta, Versace, Armani, Hugo Boss, and many more barely pronounceables.
Bill
Sounds like a nice piece of merchandise.
Bill
You may be surprised here. I think, that to the right buyer, that is a $10K wholesale piece IF the miles are real. Perhaps more if its Pearl White or something.
So it'd be retailed at $12,995 and $12K probably would buy it.
A 95 with miles like that would break $13K I think.
$16K is, obviously, too much. $16K can get ya a 55-60K mile 1997 if you shop like hell. If it were yours, I'd say to not take a penny less than $11,500 on a retail sale.
Bill
98's 30-31k
99's 33k
00 's 35k
the 98's are all in the 30-40k mile range.the 99's 15-25 and the 00's low teens.
Can you guys give me a rough idea as to how much wiggle room there is here?
I realise this is a very general question and might not be very answerable.
BTW thanks for taking the time to do this-very informative.
JP
Also, on the flip side, what is a good price for the above-mentioned s70's (both std & GLT). I'd like a sunroof & leather, but will go for the cloth if the the price diff is really that great.
The particulars on the Volvo are:
118k miles
sunroof
abs
black w/ tan leather int.
headliner sagging a bit in rear
New shocks, front suspension & brakes
Tires - good rubber (MXV4 Energy)
Thanks,
peeter
Next week, we are even starting a new Forum: "Is your Marriage fast enough" . ..l.o.l.
The 180hp runs like everyone else's 225hp ... -- and the 225, that runnin' little dog runs like everyone else's 250hp+ .. So pick your poison.
Personally, I prefer coupes ... but, that's just me. I'm more of the that type of person. See everytime I get Cabriolets ... I leave the tops down while it's rains, then I look out the window after a few minutes of knowing it's raining ..and end up, bolting out the door and hanging the roof back up. Hey, I never said I was smart.
Terry.
If it's kinda nice, looks 98ish .. the interior is somewhat clean, and you can still see the carpets from the dog hair and french fry invasions. Headliners are $100 or so if needed .. (ever try thumb tacks ..?)
If the outside is clean, limited to a "few" dings and just a couple of parking lot "kisses" and the paint will still stand up, then your driving a $2,5/$3,000 vehicle on a trade.
Me .. I would have it detailed, make it look like a diamond, throw it in the biggest paper in the area for $4,950 -- and let someone come over, insult me for $4,5 and grab the cake -- and move on.
CLEAN 98 GLT's with all the nice stuff, 40k or less and lookin' 01 are doing in and around that mid $15's+ figure, so figure on the retail side - around the mid $17's+ or so.
I hope this helps ...
Terry.
The miles are low, super low. But by the NADA figures, a 95 ES300 with 40k is $15,7 asking -- I think you can start him at $10 (bring cash, it really has a big effect on people) .. and go to about $12 and change, after that I think your done, all done.
Terry.
The guy wants $16k -firm- for no rhyme or reason.
Won't even let me test drive the car if I won't pay him that much. Never heard of that before ... but, then again, he's a foreigner.
Oh well ...
JP
A clean 98, with let's say 30/40k on it, is doing "around" $25 at the block. So by the time they put all that Stars Barks on it, detail it, service it they have around $26 in it. A good price would be the ultra high $27's, low $28's on the sale price. The 99's with 15/17/19k, clean to the bone .. are doing "around" $27ish at the block. So by the time they get all the junk on it, they have over $28 in it -- So, $30ish will take it.
Again, these a nice little vehicle's .. but there is nobody kicking down the doors to have one - that's one huge competitive market.
I hope this makes sense ...
Terry.
We had a discussion about this stuff a little while back -- people get some funny idea's, with some funny information.. it's almost common.
I watch all the papers, depending on where I'm at. I have been following this particular vehicle .. it's a 98 Lincoln LSC with 19k. So it' been the paper for like 5 wks, he want's $21 and he won't take less, he's had 3,500 phone calls, he bought it new, it's never been in the rain, it's always been garaged, nobody has sat in the back seats, never been smoked in .. blah, blah, blah .com.
So when I was in Charlotte yesterday, I called the guy, and of course .. it's still "For Sale" -- Hmmmm, so I go over take a look and the front pass side fender has been out of it, the door and the hood has been re-shot (actually a pretty darn good job..!) -- I Carfax the vehicle in the driveway, miles are right.
I tell the guy the vehicle has been hit and re-placed, he say's I'm crazy ..and off I go.
He calls me today .. says the wife had a little "hit and run" at the local food store and only had $895 of work done after the deductible (what was his deductible ..$1,000 ..?) .. and she was embarrassed to tell him.
So being the nice and honorable person he is .. he will reduce the price by $895 and I can have it for $20,100 -- Me ..? I'm thinkin' $14 is ALL the money and then some....
I guess he will just have to run that ad til Doomsday ...!
People get some very strange thought's ..l.o.l...
Terry.
I'm looking at a 99 Corvette, red, 16000 miles. The only extra is the glass targa top. The dealer is asking $35,000 Edmunds puts it around $30,000 full dealer retail. Where do you think I should be at? I'm up here in North Florida.
Thanks
Tom
Ok it's red .. big plus for a Vette., miles are on the low side -- if it's "absolutely puurrrfect" -- "in the wrapper" -- "stand tall all the way around", etc, etc, etc.com .. this vehicle would probably do around $28 at the block.
You should be able to buy this vehicle anyplace on the planet for $30 and change... they are plentiful and there is a lot of em' for sale.
Hey, did this guy have a 98 LSC in his driveway ...? ..l.o.l..
Terry.
Mark
Isn't the car business great?
(BTW I can get 93.3 but tend to stick to 1010 and 620)
- 140 HP 5-speed manual transmission
- Forest green exterior paint; tan/beige interior cloth
- About 27,500 mi. as of today; should be under 30 kmi. by lease maturity date)
- Viper keyless entry alarm system installed in Aug. 1999
- Car is in "excellent" condition (at least it should be after I touch up a small scratch with matching paint and wax the exterior; interior is in pristine condition)
- Has light smoke (35% light passage) window tinting on rear windshield and the 2 small rear side windows; can be easily removed if this hurts retail value
- Just got an oil change and tire rotation this past weekend
- FYI, the Integra LS comes with sunroof, CD player, 6 speakers, power everything, 15" rims w/ wheel locks; the only options I got were the spoiler w/ integrated brake light and 2-line/2-tone pinstriping
I live in South Jersey, about 10 mi. east of Philly. What else do you need to know? Car_man suggested I ask this question in this forum. Thanks in advance for your input!
P.S. In a related note, I inquired about my car's value at a few dealerships. The leitmotif (recurring theme) was that they don't go by what kbb.com or Edmunds suggests; instead, they use the Galve (Galves?) book, published monthly, that most of us are not privy to. Does anyone know about this?
Thanks,
Quentin
Regards John
To use A-Plan, do you have to be related to the Ford worker or not? My boss' brother in-law works for Ford and she offered to let me use one of the A-Plan slots, but I don't know if we qualify or not.
If we don't qualify for that, we can still get X-Plan through my employer. What is X-Plan pricing and how do you figure it? Is it the same for Land Rovers? We're looking to get a Discovery, most likely.