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Any Questions for a Car Dealer?
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I'm not in the auto industry. I prefer Cadillac cars and am in a car club, but don't work in the industry.
But what about when the dealer puts a scratch in the car (about 2 inches then RUINS the ENTIRE door trying fix it!?!?!?!? Happened to me recently, and I still dont have the door "fixed" yet...
So two months in, I had a warranty issue. I took the car to the closer dealer. They asked where I bought it, and I told them. Didn't seem to make a difference, other than the wait was a bit long for the appointment. I expected that, so no problem. The job was done well, and I told the service manager that I was happy.
So I started taking the car there for oil changes and the like. Always great service. Three years later, I needed another car. The service guy hooked me up with a salesman, we negotiated, and got a car from them.
I may never have looked at that dealership for a new car if not for the quality service. They made a smart move by agreeing to handle a warranty claim for a car they didn't sell, with the hope of making a future sale and getting standard maintenance work run through service. I wish most dealers looked long term like that.
-Dan-
My question is "Do the manufacturers require their dealers to accept warranty work on their covered vehicles or do the dealers have the 'option' to refuse?" Is this normally covered under their franchise agreements with DC, Ford, GM, etc? Curious since I thought that was a requirement within reasonable circumstances.
Bill
The dealers do get reimbursed for warranty work, but look at this: Leo Martin Chevrolet, in Lake Jackson, Texas sells 100 cars per month (good guesstimate). 100 people from their area go to Landmark Chevrolet in Houston to buy from the pimp dealer, then return back home and expect warranty service at their "home" dealer (the one who never got a chance at your business). If LM Chevrolet does warranty claims on twice as many cars as they sold, GM corporate crawls up their backside with an audit and they are watched and hassled - it looks, to GM corporate, like they're creating fake warranty work.
Also, warranty works pays less. If you overload a tech with tedious, low paying warranty work, he'll quit. Also, if the shop never has time for customer pay work on people who are out of warranty, they lose that business, too. Without CP work and with overloaded techs, you have a lose-lose situation for the dealership.
I can understand not giving cars purchased at another dealer preference, but it is still good business practice to fit it in somewhere.
Besides, I am sure that a manufacturer might not like getting complaints about a dealer routinely refusing to do warranty work.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Losing 3-4 or even 8-10 customers is one thing - losing ONE experienced, trained technician is catastrophic.
Instead of making it tough on the customers, the dealerships should present a unified front to the auto makers and demand appropriate compensation for repairs under warranty. If this gets worse, it may actually affect new car sales.
What the heck did a dealership 100 miles away ever do for your kid's Boy Scout troop? This mom and pop place gave his troop $500 and sponsored a full blown Boy Scout Jamboree every year.
You're not guaranteed warranty work anywhere - you can get work done anywhere, sure, but each dealership is a private business, run by people with real business concerns. This mega dealer is stealing deals out of a small town, and costing the smaller dealer, with the same type of dealer costs and technician training costs and issues, a lot of business by having local folks drop in for warranty work.
I, personally, think it's exceptionally rude to take business out of your small home town, drive 100 miles away to buy a car for the same price as the mom and pop place can (and would) do, only to bring your car to the dealer to repair a dash rattle under warranty.
Emergencies? Sure. Dash rattles, suspension rattles, phantom noises? Take it to Houston where you bought it...
That would also be my business philosophy, and you can take that how you'd like. I'd let the mega dealer answer to you about getting your car worked on - I have a fairly full schedule taking care of MY customers - let the mega dealer take care of you.
When I purchase an automobile, there are many factors going into the purchase. As many posts have said, there are other reasons for buying a car at a "non-local" dealership (previously living out of town, extenuating circumstances, etc...its not always just to get a "cheepie"). The price of having the auto maker's name badge on the dealership is paid by honoring the warranties that we the customer are told are "accepted nation wide". I have bought 2 cars in the last 4 months and never was told the warranty was "only valid at this dealership".
If dealerships are going to get shifty on honoring warranties from non purchasing customers, they need to be very up front about it. I suspect their business will suffer quickly, as I wouldn't buy from anyone such as this. We all have our "burdens" to carry when it comes to business, but for dealerships to nickel-and-dime the customers because they're upset about reimbursement from manufacturers is inappropriate.
Bottom line, we are the ones that keep the dealership in business, so treat us well or suffer the consequences. I don't think asking for warranty work is unrealistic. As one of the above posters commented, some dealerships take these lemons and make lemon aid turning another's customers into their future buyers, others just throw them at the customers.
I dunno, pal, but you didn't do anything to "keep the dealership in business" if you went and bought elsewhere.
It's also fine to disagree with drift, but that doesn't make what he says "hogwash".
Finally, there are plenty of dealerships who welcome warranty work and try to get people to buy the NEXT car from them... I'm thinking if I were in that situation, I'd give customers the benefit of the doubt at least the first time...
I think a lot of it depends on how busy the service dept is.
-Mathias
That's a business decision, just like so many businesses pick and choose who they contract with, which vendors they use, where they get their products from, etc - if it isn't a positive situation for the business, it's completely stupid to continue the trend.
No one's holding anyone hostage - they just want you to get your warranty work done where you bought the car, and that's their right. And yours.
I'm sorry we disagree on this, but ain't America great that we can disagree?
Lousy customer support is what makes or breaks a business. Look at Lexus. They are the premier dealerships, because they treat the customer so well. A lot of people will go to Lexus because of service, even if they like another car better. Mainly because they don't want a lot of flack from the dealerships and service depts (see comments about BMW on other topics w/in Edmunds for examples).
I'm sure it's frustrating. I get frustrated when customers pull similar things to me, dumping a huge problem/issue on me, when it developed at another's office. But I don't refuse to deal with it.
The main argument I hear is that because a consumer drove 100 miles away to save a perceived dollar, then the local dealership (that was snubbed) has the right to turn down the warranty work. Issues I have with this include:
*** Service department has no idea if the person tried to buy the car at the dealership, and did not because they were lowballed on the trade, lied to, ignored, color was not in stock, salesperson was late for an appointment, dealership was closed on Sunday, etc.
*** Car could have been bought out of town when the person actually lived out of town. Warranties are 3 and 4 years long, how is the Service department supposed to know where the person was living when they bought the car?
Unless the Service department sits down with each potential service customer and goes through a 20 point questionairre to determine validity of reason why the car was not purchased at the dealership, I fail to see how that point has any relevance.
As for the reason to turn down warranty work due to the the potential for an audit - sounds to me like the cost of doing business. And if there is so much warranty work locally, instead of assigning the work to your experienced techs (and potentially losing them due to the type of work), hire another tech to handle the increased workload and assign the work to him! Seems to me like you a good business should be able to find a way to make money by doing more work than less work.
I can see lots of potential discrimination litigation if a dealership turns down warranty work. I can hear it now - "Your honor, they turned me away because of my age - because or my sex - because of my color - etc." Seems like too much risk involved in turning away customers.
Damon
"sir, i know your nose is running, but i recommend you see your own doctor. the lady next to you has a hatchet in her head."
"thats unacceptable! i demand to be seen IMMEDIATELY!"
"sir, i understand, but if we take you first, she will die."
"my nose is running and i want to see a specialist! NOW! im paying for it, so give me what i want!!!"
"im sorry, sir, but we cant do that."
"THATS IT!!! ill never do business here again!!!"
Poor reimbursement for warranty work exists in EVERY vehicle manufacturers service procedures. That's the price the dealer pays to be able to sell the product - asking a dealer to do twice as much warranty work as the number of vehicles they've sold, though, is wrong. That's what we're doing here - audits happen, dealership service classifications change, the store's buying customers don't get their vehicles handled in a timelt manner, they lose business, techs quit, the business fails. The meag dealer usually does warranty work on only 20% of the vehicles it sells - how fair is that?
Do you know who made this pendulum sway like this? The customers, willing to drive 100 miles to save $20.
If the viable choice for staying alive in the car business is not doing excessive warranty work on vehicles not purchased there, so be it. The alternative, especially in this dealer's situation, is closing the doors and putting 70 people out of work. The choice is clear, in my eyes.
Always seems to work that way.
I bought my car at a dealership 60 miles away, bypassing two other dealers on the way. Why? Because that's where the car was! It was the only one like it within 200 miles, and it was the end of the model year.
First of all, I wasn’t aware that a dealer could turn down a customer for warranty work because the customer did not buy the car from them; at least my Ford manual clearly states that I could get my warranty work done in all Ford and Lincoln Mercury dealerships.
Secondly, turning customers away is just a bad business practice period. When you turn away one customer, you don’t just turn away one, you also turn away his brothers, sisters, uncles, and uncle’s mistress. Your good customer service keeps the customers back for regular tune-ups, and hopefully a new vehicle and some customer referrals a few months or a few years down the road. Bad rep could really kill you fast.
It would take losing well over 100 customers before you could compare to the investment and cashflow associated with one good tech.
Yes, you CAN get warranty work done at any Ford dealer nationwide, but Ford can't dictate whether a franchiseed dealer has to work on vehicles they didn't sell. In fact, warranty audits looks at the number of claims filed versus the number of vehicles sold very carefully.
"but Ford can't dictate whether a franchised dealer has to work on vehicles they didn't sell."
My understanding is that dealerships are franchisees of the manufacturers. And as such, the franchiser has rules in place that a franchisee must follow in order to remain part of the network. For instance, I remember Terry talking about all Volkswagen dealers, to remain a franchisee, had to open a free standing store at an expense to themselves in the millions. I am also sure that the manufacturer/franchiser has other requirements as well - such as capital requirements, advertising requirements, etc.
Surely then a manufacturer/franchiser can require all franchises to honor all warranty work on their own automobiles. If not, then there would be no confidence of the public in the whole brand of the manufacturer. Without these rules in place, no manufacturer would be able to stay in business.
And if the franchisee does not wish to follow the rules (i.e. honor all warranty work regardless of where car was sold), that is up to them. But my guess is that they would then be in violation of their agreement with the manufacturer, and would open themselves to litigation and termination of their franchise.
Are your comments coming from an insiders knowledge of the dealership/manufacturer relationship, or simply observations?
This text is in the second paragraph of the introduction to the Ford New Car warranty - right there after thanks for buying our car. Clearly, any Ford dealer authorized for warranty repair must work on a car with a warrantable issue. The only 'out' is if that dealership is unauthorized to perform the particular issue at hand (which I am guessing is very rare).
There is no 'You did not buy the car here so we're not going to work on your car' clause.
Damon
Interesting discussion
Let me get this straight. If I want to purchase a PZEV based Accord or Focus, I cannot do it in any state but CA., MA., ME., NY., or VT. I asked my local Honda dealership if they could order a PZEV Accord and they said they could not. That means I will be driving ~ 750 - 1,000 miles to purchase the car I want if and when I decide to do so.
If a car needs warranty work, was it the purchaser’s fault that it did? Was it the selling dealership’s fault? No, it was the manufacturer. Warranties are handled through the franchise agreement or they wouldn’t be worth the paper they are written on. If there is a problem, then it is between the dealership and the manufacture, not the purchaser. Holding back warranty service because the car was purchased elsewhere? The only time I have heard of this was with a Gray Market or Canadian/US sale with warranty work asked for in the other country - US/Canada.
Good Luck
Wayne R. Gerdes
- Train junior technicians that you do not have to pay as much to do minor warranty works, let the sr. technicians supervise.
- Reflect the what's happening to the manufacture and re-negotiate your master contract.
- Let sales rep visit the waiting lounge to initiate some contact, sell cars or after-market product. Maxmize the benefit of traffic.
- Emphasize the excellent customer service so the customers will think of you when they want to buy a new car, or when the customer's relatives and friends want to buy a new car.
Lastly- I am not in the car business so I don't know, but I really don't think every warranty work is a money losing business. In the Mortgage Backed Security Business (My area of expertise), a wholesale lender buys a pool of loans at a loss (about 3%), the way these lenders make money is through loan servicing, and cross-selling. Ever notice your mortgage lender wants you to borrow money from them to buy a car or open a credit card too?
You CAN take it there, they don't have to work on it. In fact, the warranty auditors slam dealerships doing too many repairs.
These franchises, like other businesses, have the right to refuse service to anyone.
"There is no 'You did not buy the car here so we're not going to work on your car' clause"
Sure there is - it's because the manufacturer doesn't own the store, and can't tell them that they'll work on a particular unit, especially if they didn't sell it.
"Train junior technicians that you do not have to pay as much to do minor warranty works, let the sr. technicians supervise"
OK, so the junior technicians quit, and you have to start looking for technicians again.
"Reflect the what's happening to the manufacture and re-negotiate your master contract"
There is no negotiation on a warranty labor guide - it is what it is. Across the board, for every dealer.
"Let sales rep visit the waiting lounge to initiate some contact, sell cars or after-market product. Maxmize the benefit of traffic"
Any salesman worth his salt should be doing this anyway.
"Are your comments coming from an insiders knowledge of the dealership/manufacturer relationship, or simply observations"
I've been a service manager and service advisor, as well as a service and sales policy training consultant. My current position is as a technical expert for automotive law and warranty cases. The dealership that is the subject of our discussion is owned by the father of one of my high school friends - my dad did business with the dealer's family since 1947.
You're clearly very biased toward this then.
When there's problem with our business, we don't blame it on the consumers, business have to make money, and consumers want to save. Before I point the fingers at my competitor, I would look at myself, why do my customers go to the mega seller? Is my margin too high? Do I not have enough selections? Did my sales rep leave a bad taste for some of the customers that walk in hoping to get their warranty work done but we turned them away?
You turn away 1 customer, you might lose a few customers, when you turn away a bunch, you loss grow exponentially, when one of my friends tell me that Dealership A is not good, I might still go and check it out, when 2 of my friends tell me that Dealership A is no good, then I probably will never go.
Ford doesn't have paid oil change, but my Jaguar S-Type does. If I go to another dealer to do the oil change and they're not willing to do it for free? Fine- Maybe my letter to Jaguar doesn't worth much, but trust me, everyone in my office, my friends, my clients will not be hearing anything good about that dealership.
Lets all take a breath here .. breath deep, take another one .. okay, one more - are we feeling a little better now.?
This isn't a dealer VS customer thing, this is how someone interacts with other people ...
We all read the other posts like: "Lease Questions - Ask Here" or "Prices Paid & Buying Experiences" etc etc, and a small minority of these posters (as we read thru the lines) put themselves into their own Jackpot .. ya know, they email 10 different brands at 12 different stores and 5 different price levels, then they burn up 5/6 different sales departments and they end up buying that $19,000 Malibu instead of the $35,000 Audi that they were pounding someones desk about 3 days before .. I bet he'll be on the bottom of the pecking order when it comes to service ....
See, we never hear the "whole" story .. we never hear about the guy that owe's $11,000 on his $7,500 trade (it's common) we never hear about the part where he was "conditioned" by 3 lenders (it's common) because he has little or no money down, so he needs big rebates and he's out shopping 4 different stores at the same time .. in the meantime, he shows up 3 weeks later (after this dealer got him approved weeks before) in a 2 year old Focus with 30k and he wants it serviced ~ there's a reeeal good chance he's on the bottom of the totum poll when the service bell rings ..
Every dealer loves service work .. but whether he's a Lexus dealer or he's a Buick dealer, he wants to keep his own customers happy - "first" ... down here, we get the snowbirds for NY, we get the egg hunters from Boston and the Buckeyes from Ohio, and the dealers will fit them in as they can, but their customers will come first, it might take 3 hours or it might take 3 days, but it will get serviced .. that said, the dealer in Boston will do his people first depending on demand, and I don't blame him one bit .. I'm there for 3 days, his customers are there on a daily basis - they make the difference, I'm just a visitor ..
It's a big universe, but the auto biz is a small world .. in Richmond, the Honda guy knows and communicates with Ford dealers and the sales staffs talk all the time, in Pittsburg the Lexus guys talk with the Acura and the Infiniti dealers, In Atlanta the guys at the Toyota stores email and yak to all the guys in Charlotte and Orlando .. so the guy thats a "bad" customer, gets as much a reputation as a bad dealer ................
Terry.
If a customer takes his car to the service department of a dealership that did not sell the car, and starts paying to have maintenance done there (oil changes, 30K services, tranny flushes, etc...), then when that customer needs warranty work, how likely is that service department to perform the warrnaty work? If the service department views the customer as being a loyal customer of the service department, are they more likely to perform the warranty work for the customer - even though the car was not initially purchased there?
In the city where I live there are four Toyota or Honda dealers within 20 miles of my house. I always go to the closest one first when buying since I'll be taking the vehicle there for service. Of the last five Honda/Toyotas I've bought, I've been successful at the closest dealership only twice and have never had a problem going their for service.
gshocksv - "You're clearly very biased toward this then"
Yes, I've been on both sides of this coin, being a consumer with a vehicle, trying to get into a dealership for service, and I've been the service manager, trying to deal with the conversion van owner, who bought the van somewhere else, we don't even sell that brand, but they have a 22-item laundry list of nitnoid, minor issues that'll tie up a tech for 2 days. Did I mention we don't sell that brand, so how in the heck are we supposed to do warranty work for this conversion company?
It's a smart idea to pass on people like that, simply because once you narrow the items down to the "Chevrolet only" stuff, and do those repairs, that customer SLAMS your CSI because all his problems weren't handled...I'd rather avoid it all together.
By the way, this forum is "Any questions for a car dealer" - if you have an issue or question, and ask a car dealer, from what perspective do you expect question answers and reponses delivered?
If you don't like the honest, forthcoming information you're receiving, do like most people do - ask their accountant or dry cleaner dude how they think a car dealership operates.
To me that seems like a sure way to ruin your credit and get the vehicle repo'ed. Wouldn't there be something in the fine print of the financing to cover something like that?
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
And I promise that the only thing anyone succeeded in by doing that is ruining their credit. What a boneheaded move.
Your bank, credit union, or even the manufacturer's lending arm doesn't care one bit whether you're annoyed with your car - the agreement is simple - you make your payments, you keep your car - you don't make your payments, they take it - simple as that.
I've talked to clients of the firm who said "I'll show them, I'll stop making payments". The manufacturer wins, for sure, since without the car, you'll quit bringing it in with service complaints.
This is one of the lame-braindest ideas people try to pull off - absolutely incorrect and false.
Your quote above: "and I've been the service manager, trying to deal with the conversion van owner, who bought the van somewhere else, we don't even sell that brand, but they have a 22-item laundry list of nitnoid, minor issues that'll tie up a tech for 2 days. Did I mention we don't sell that brand, so how in the heck are we supposed to do warranty work for this conversion company?"
Now I am confused. I thought we have been discussing something like a Ford dealership refusing warranty service on a Ford car that is still in warranty because the car was not bought at their dealership. This point I know is incorrect (see my post earlier on the Ford warranty) - that dealership must, as part of their franchise agreement with the manufacturer, service the warranty. Can we agree on this???
Now, as I said earlier, they can say no, but then would clearly be in violation of their franchise agreement and subject themselves to penalty. If that is the risk they want to take - they can do so - but must realize there might be consequences to their actions.
Your quote above seems to indicate that someone brings a GMC or Ford conversion into a Chevy dealer, and expects the warranty work to be covered. To this point I agree - the dealer does not need to do the warranty work... because they can't... they wouldn't be authorized to do so! I don't see how GMC would reimburse Ford for doing warranty work on the GMC product.
But if the customer is willing to pay cash money for the service, then the dealership needs to provide an estimate (and charge for estimate), provide a date when the car can be taken in for the service, and provide an expected completion date. If the three factors of cost, start time, and end time are agreeable to the customer, then the work should be done. The business should only provide these three factors at a profit to themselves.
I also do not agree with your assessment that a business has the right to turn away customers. I may be naive here, but I think there are discrimination laws (and housing rules, etc.) in place to prevent this type of stuff.
You can refuse to service a customer for a specific reason (drunk, beligerent, has not paid in the past), but not for specious reasons like they did not buy their car here and I am mad at them - so there.
I find it hard to believe that one day I am going to walk into my local Publix, and while on the checkout line the manager comes up to me and asks me to leave because he saw me shopping at the Winn-Dixie down the street earlier in the week. Might not be the best analogy, but seems similar to the points you are making.
Damon
I bought the Ion Redline near Pittsburgh, took it to a local dealer, they did a weak job of diagnosis, I challenged them on it, and got blown out by one of the rudest service managers I've ever dealt with -
I bought my vehicle out of state when I was living elsewhere, then moved here. I can tell you that I'd be wholly peeved with Chrysler (and the local dealerships) if no one local would service my vehicle under warranty. Doesn't matter whether my anger is directed correctly or incorrectly - I'd still take it out on the dealerships & probably DCX by not purchasing from them... ever.
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Car owners are under the misconception that they can just drop off their cars whenever they like - this indicates to me that they have no idea what it's like to handle shop scheduling, and why should they?
Give a customer pay estimate for repairs on a conversion van? Absolutely not. It's under a warranty, that dealership simply isn't outfitted to handle repairs. You want to see someone lose their cotton picking mind? tell them that they have to pay for something that's covered under a warranty - that's a good way to get your place set on fire.
These people turned away aren't turned away because of race, creed, religion, sex, political view, etc - there is NO discrimination - they're turned away because they aren't that dealership's customer - period. Buy a car there, and you can get all the warranty work you need.
If I'm reading this whole thing right, it seems that dealers aren't saying that they WON'T do warranty work on a car bought elsewhere (well, sometimes they do), but that the PRIORITY in scheduling said warranty work is driven first by the folks that the dealer sold to originally. This just seems to be good business. In my sales work, I prioritize existing customers, referrals and advertising leads, in that order. Everyone gets my full attention, but some folks come first. Why? Cuz they earned it, that's why. Seems like car dealers operate the same way.
-Dan-
But as is my nature, I always need to make one last point (or two)...
1. Dealer can't MAKE a dealer service everyone's car - ummm, yes they can. First of all, we have been talking about warranty work (not regular srevice or out of warranty work). The manufacturer can cancel their franchise contract with the dealership and put them out of business. Similar to how the government can't MAKE me pay taxes, but they can definitely put me in jail for failing to do so - even if I show them my cash flow schedule.
2. Give a customer pay estimate for a conversion van? Absolutely not - umm, you have still lost me on this one.
You (or a customer) seriously expect a Hyundai dealer do warranty work on a GMC conversion van? I don't think so - and I am sure the customer would not think so.
It should be a very easy conversation to have with a customer, something like this:
" Sir, you are driving a GMC, this is Hyundai. We are not authorized to perform warranty work on your car. Even if I wanted to do the work for you at a cost to you, I do not have the skills or tools here to help you. Allow me to direct you to the nearest (not the one you bought from!) GMC dealer."
However, if the Hyundai is authorized for whatever reason to perform warranty work on the GMC conversion van, then they must do so. They can set the paramaters of schedule - that is fine - but they must do the work. It is acceptable to say "Sir, we are authorized to do the work and are more than happy to do the work for you, but our next available slot is not until the following Friday". It is not acceptable to say - "Sir, we are authorized to do the work for you, but don't want to because we don't like you (you're not a customer)".
That's a hard stance, and a business owner's decision. My stance would be that all of my customers get handled first. Other folks can be scheduled as time allows, but not outright refused - if I see someone abusing us, though, with a vehicle boght elsewhere, whiny laundry lists for nitnoid stuff, making the techs mad and tying up the schedule, forget it - THAT'S not good business.
And yes, OUR customers earned the right to be first in line by doing business with us. If you bought your car at XYZ Ford, they should have the same policy and you should be able to get right in.