Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

jb_turner

"reason demos exist is so every car on the lot doesn't get miled up, only a couple...people are VERY picky about how many miles are on their new car."

It would seem reasonable that the miled up cars are the ones customers used to test drive.
I often see new cars being driven by sales people with dealer tags (Chevy Dealer right up the road).
The way I see it if I owned a Dealership I would only let the new cars be driven by potential customers only for test drive (3-4 miles at the time at most) I would not let my personal drive the new cars at all same with the service department. As far as loaner cars go I would only have used cars as loaner cars.

robr2

Also, not every person working at the dealership gets a demo unit. IIRC, the local store here in town gives demo units to finance, sales, service, and general managers only. Not every sales person gets a demo.

As for not using used cars as service loaners, I guess the dealership would want to represent the new cars they sell as opposed to an older model or different make. What good does giving someone who has their 5 series in for service a used Nissan Sentra as a loaner? It's about generating new business.

rroyce10

...... Well, lots of things have changed in the last 6/7 years ..

Most dealers don't even have demo's anymore for the sales staff, and if they do, it's usually for the SM's and/or GM's .. lot's of stores have even gone to a monthly "allowance" to subsidize the sales and the management instead of the the demo's ...

1.) Insurance rates have gone thru the roof and the stores liability is always at jeopardy .. get someone into a 10mph $1,500 fender bender and suddenly, it turns into a $150,000 "I can't walk and I can't see" legal case ~ thank you Mr. Attorney ...

2.) Most of the manufacturers have cut off incentive money on demo's .. so to pile up 2/3/4,000 miles on a new vehicle can be: Very Costly, to say the least .. thats why most dealers are using rental companies for service and customer convenience ... the days of the demo's are all but over.



Terry.

jb_turner

Good reply Terry! you mentioned some things I did not even consider. What brought this up is that a local dealer had a new car with 4000? miles on it ... it was a "demo".

rroyce10

....... That why I ask everyone over at RWTV's to check and make sure it is a "demo" ..

They could be a buy-back, they might have bought it at the auction, they could have bought it from the Zone Rep - or it could be a demo ...... in 84 when I started in the biz, Everyone had a demo, sales guys, office girls, detail guys, service writers ..l.o.l.. you name it - it's a different world nowadays ............

Terry.

imidazol97

The GM dealer I go to uses the used car lot for loaners for service, warranty or other service as long as the car was purchased from them, used or new.

They sell some of those to people who have them as loaners, for themselves or someone they know. When you drive a car for 3 days, you know it's good or not.

Body shop has rentals that are new cars. They may be sold as demos for all I know.

dbauer

our dealership does it a little different. only managers get "demos". salespeople lease a car in their own name, and the dealership pays their payment as a sales bonus. i like when i dont have to make a car payment...lol.

cadillacmike

Ditto...

I never agreed with the CR ratings either, they fail to take into account suspension options, are always applying double standards against american cars. and are severely biased against American iron in general.

That said, they did "recommend" the recent Sedan DeVilles and are recommending the current CTS sedans!

But I still think they are a bunch of people who overestimate their own sense of self importance, etc., etc., etc.

imidazol97

Didn't dealers change the way demo cars were handled for the salesmen years ago because the value of the demo car's use was considered taxable income? Before that it had been a freebie? (just like my sister-in-law who's a flight attendant and can fly anywhere/anytime and along with her close relatives, but it's not taxable.)

I know when I shopped for a 98 car, the salesman said take my car (it had touring suspension). It had normal license plates and seemed to be his... What if we had an accident? or were hit by a semi in his car. Is there a liability to the dealership along with the salesman since it's his car?

Kirstie_H

A bunch of useful posts on bankruptcy have been moved to our discussion on Bankruptcy & Vehicle Financing

driftracer

killing most salesman demo programs was insurance-related - DWIs, accidents, angry girlfiends, etc, have great ways of raising insurance premiums and causing vehicle damage...

dbauer

the tax thing still applies. the taxable income is 1% of MSRP per month. if your demo has an MSRP of $20k, then you pay taxes on $200 each month.

imidazol97

>$200 each month

If the salesman leases the car and the dealership pays the cost in bonus money (as someone said earlier), is the bonus money taxable just the same at the $200 per month would have been?

jlawrence01

Anytime an employer provides a vehicle to an employee for personal or commuting use on an on-going basis, it is a taxable event.

dbauer

the funny thing is...it is taxable either way...but if the car is in my name, i get to re-deduct the payments at the end of the year...business expense.

;-)

manamal

I am looking at purchasing a used (01 or 02) SAAB 9-3. What is wierd si they will give me a better price on an '02 than an '01, everything being equal. Why? well he had to do more rehab on the '01.

It seems to me that a car is worth what it is worth. If you had to do extra rehab, then that is your problem, not mine.

Am I correct?

volvodan1

You are correct. It's his problem. It's also his "problem" to sell each car for what he wants.

The car is "worth" what he owns it for + what he wants to make on it. Plus he may have bought the 01 90 days ago when it was worth $900 more. Then you throw on $500 for tires, $20 for wiper blades, etc., etc.....

stickguy

It is "worth" what someone will pay for it (or what the same car is otherwise selling for in the marketplace). Wht you described could more accurately be termed "sunk cost", or what he has in it.

As is often pointed out, the market determines the price, and market value really has nothing to do with what you are into a car for, owe on it, want to get for it, etc.

volvodan1

The market has everything to do with what you want to get for it. Depending on how the dealership is run, on the 01 they may selling it for what they have in it because they've had it since the 4th of July. They shouldn't still have it, but I've seen worse. The owner/gm just doesn't want to take a bigger loss. In the meantime they took in an 02 that they own right and can be bought for less.

Ask Terry if the 02 is a good deal and go. They are the ones who will be (still) stuck with the 01!

It's a lot easier taking less of a profit than more of a loss. The ones that run the best dealerships are the ones that know when to get out of a vehicle. It's gambling. You either know when to fold em, or you try to get "retail retail" to break even.

Kirstie_H

Sure, the market has everything to do with what you want to get for it. But what you paid for it and what you want to get for it may have little to do with what you will get for it. We see it all the time with members who want to trade in a vehicle on which they owe $18K and they're angry because the dealership will only give them $14K.

benderofbows

Make sure there is not some reason why they especially want to get rid of the '02. Get a carfax and have a mechanic check it out.

driftracer

where they thought they had a good vehicle, and ended up putting a $2500 shop bill into a car, thereby having more in an older used car than a newer one. It happens, not to worry.

Figure out which one you'd want, make sure the price you could buy it for is aligned with the market, and make your choice.

And sell the Camry privately...

benderofbows

Why don't dealers let people know what they did to refurbish a car? I think that would be a strong selling point. In this case for instance, "We have a 2002 with 45K that we haven't done any work to for $13,500, and a similiar 2001 with 60K that has $2500 worth of work done including new tires, new brakes, engine belts, tranny and coolant services, etc. for $14,250." If I were going to keep the car for 3+ years, the 2001 starts looking more attractive. I know dealers can't give you the complete service history on a used car unless the original owner had all of the service done there; but it seems like most dealers can't/won't bother to even tell you what they did to a car after they took it in.

danf1

Not to be antagonistic, but have you tried asking a dealer to see what work they have done to a car. I for one would have no problem telling you what we did if it would help you make up your mind.

benderofbows

Yea, they usually just say they don't know, or avoid the question. I meant that the info should be readily available, maybe given out with the price.

boomer1b

Funny you show mention that..........

If its a GM car at a GM dealer...You can take the vin# to the service area and they can run a computer check to see if any maint., warranty issues, repairs etc. were done at any GM dealer.

Any late model GM truck I have traded the dealer(s) usually "tosses" all maint. receipts.

volvodan1

I don't know why they wouldn't tell you if it was tires, brakes, tranny service, etc. They probably would have. It prolly was stuff they wouldn't want to mention (engine, tranny problems).

I must have glossed over the trade in part. WOW! I mean they are only $5-6 grandes away. Draggin a trade is one thing, but this is a few steps above that!

imidazol97

>Draggin a trade is one thing, but this is a few steps above

Can you explain what this means?

mitzij

You state:


The computer check that can be done at any GM dealer only shows work done under warranty or recall. Basically, any work that GM paid for. Maintenance records are not available there.

driftracer

unless you're checking with the dealership that has done maintenance, and that's not the GM VIS report, anyway, that's an internal printout.

boomer1b

bobst

If a cer dealer told you they had done a bunch of work to refurbish a car, would you believe them?

volvodan1

Sorry. Draggin it is when the car is appraised at $10,000, it's traded for $9,500, and another $500 profit is in the deal.

benderofbows

If a cer dealer told you they had done a bunch of work to refurbish a car, would you believe them?

Depends on the situation, and the kind of work they state they did. If they say they did easily verifiable things like tires, brakes, tranny service (flush/fill etc), coolant service, belts, then yea I'd buy it because those things can be easily checked (but I would probably check behind them).

imidazol97

>Draggin it on appraisal of used car

Volvo is this a common practice by dealers? It is a good way to raise total deal profit especially for someone who thinks they are being slick by focusing on the cost of the new car portion?????

They don't know what their car is really worth traded to a dealer so they get below what a dealer normally would get.?????

dbauer

in my case, i always underallow by $500 to begin with. $1000 on high-end vehicles. if they take it, then fine...but 90% of buyers then want more money, which i am now able to do without losing money.

rroyce10

..... Every dealer is different and the difference can be only 2 miles away .. it depends on the vehicle, condition and the mileage ... a Volvo XC70 is worth a whole lot more money to a Volvo/Bimmer/Audi dealer than perhaps a Chevy/Honda/Ford store ..

Terry.

cadillacmike

"Why don't dealers let people know what they did to refurbish a car? I think that would be a strong selling point. In this case for instance, "We have a 2002 with 45K that we haven't done any work to for $13,500, and a similiar 2001 with 60K that has $2500 worth of work done including new tires, new brakes, engine belts, tranny and coolant services, etc. for $14,250." If I were going to keep the car for 3+ years, the 2001 starts looking more attractive. I know dealers can't give you the complete service history on a used car unless the original owner had all of the service done there; but it seems like most dealers can't/won't bother to even tell you what they did to a car after they took it in."

The dealers I have been to have been very informative about service history, but only after I asked. It helps if the car you're loking at was originally sold there and serviced there too, because more info will be available to them. Obviously no dealer can look up work done at other shops.

rroyce10

....... Ever hear of: don't open up a can of worms ...?

I know people that have traded vehicles when the battery went dead at 9,500 miles .. I know of people that went looking for a new vehicle when they had their first flat, and it only had 2,500 miles on it ... depending on the situation, it might be better to leave the sleeping dogs lie ...

Dealer: We just did the 30k service, 4 brand new rubber and brand new OEM brakes ...

Customer: "hmm, thats funny, I've always gotten 60k out of my tires - is there a front end problem? I better think about it"

Customer: "new brakes, hmm my Brother says you should always be able to get 50k on this type of model, I better look around"

Customer: "why did you do the service so early? It only has 28,000 miles, I think there's something wrong.!" ...... customers can be funny, and I don't mean in a Ha Ha way .........

Are ya getting the drift yet ....?

Terry.

qbrozen

Obviously no dealer can look up work done at other shops.

Are you sure? I thought, for instance, I could go to any Mercedes dealer and get the complete history on a Benz regardless of what dealer it was serviced at. In other words, its a central database.

driftracer

even MB dealers can't look up Wal-Mart or Jiffy Lube oil changes...

cadillacmike

Why can't they, better yet, what can't the dealers look up when joe blow did his own oil change and forgot to put the new oil in and drove it to the gas station and only then noticed his oil light was on!!!!!

(and then traded it in the following week ;-) )

driftracer

and I doubt there ever will be, and we also know that car salesmen aren't the only ones who lie.

That's what the "trade disclosure" statements you sign at trade-in time are for - when the engine blows on your 35,000-mile car a month after the dealership sells it, after you SWORE the oil was changed every 3,000 miles, that's how the deaqlership can sue your pants off - I think it's a great idea, and I wish more consumer understood the liability they're assuming when they sign those forms...

cadillacmike

You realize that I as just trying to be humourous right? That said, there are consumers that make the worst dealers look like angels.

lemmer

Are those forms a normal course of business now? I can't remember signing one. I remember some kind of disclosure checklist, so maybe I just didn't read it very well.

Anyway, it seems like liability would be really hard to prove in many cases. It also seems like for anything less than several thousand dollars, it wouldn't make sense to call a lawyer.

qbrozen

well, right, that's why i only mentioned dealers. obviously they don't know what was done outside of their network.

of course, the car will many times determine how accurate such a report is. Its certainly not a foolproof generalization, but I would bet that a Benz/BMW/Lexus is more likely to have received its service work at a dealer (up to a certain age, anyway).

cadillacmike

I always have to sign odometer disclosure forms. I'm not sure if having a rebuilt engine put in (not the original block) would be cause for some sort of mandatory statement or not (and I never had to sell / trade a car in that condition), but who knows?

I can't remember if the form had any other disclosure requirements on it. Never having had anything to hide on a trade-in, I never worried about the form and just signed it after making sure it didn't authorize the dealer to take $100.00/ month out of my bank account or something like that!

They have been including a POA form for the liecense tag recently, I wonder why they need a POA all of a sudden?????

danf1

I get a POA on every deal that allows me to correct title work within a 90 day period. It allows me to fix small problems without inconveniencing my customers.

isellhondas

Oh yeah! A lot of people look for reasons NOT to buy a car. If the paint has a small sctatch, they will touch it, shake their heads etc. On the other hand if we do a great job touching up the scratch, a fussy shopper may notice an ever so slight paint difference and assumed the car was "wrecked".

They always want low mileage cars for high mileage prices. Then if a used car happens to have far less than average miles on it, they think something is wrong.

I lose interest in shoppers like this quickly.

mikefm58

That's why you sales guys make the big bucks... just kidding. I'm sure you see folks from every side of every issue. Some (like myself) would want to see the recent maint. on the vehicle. Others (like my wife), who don't know maint. schedules would think the vehicle needed too much work and would move on to something else. If shopping for a 3-4 yr old used car, I'd rather see a few paint nicks so I know it wasn't wrecked and then painted. You just need to use your vast expertise to see what type of buyer you've got.