Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

chazmo

I am trading my 2003 Honda Accord LX. I am looking on most dealers lots for an "El Cheapo". How do most dealers feel about trading for a car that is worth more than the car they are selling?

driftracer

if your car is worth $10k, and the car you're buying is $5k, they take your car and cut you a $5k check.

rroyce10

...... It depends - and I don't mean the kind you wear ..

 

             It depends on the auction, some can be anywhere from $100 to $200 more depending on the where, what and who ... it also depends on what lane it runs thru, one lane might be $250 and the one next to it might be $300, it also depends on who's running it thru, BMWFS gets charged more than GMAC - and most important, "how much", the more expensive the vehicle is, the more it costs .. so it can be anywhere from $200 to $500 depending on the auction and the amount ..

 

                 Transport, it all depends .. maybe he will find some drivers, maybe he would rather drop them via truck and not wonder where Uncle Bob is, and everything depends on distance and fuel .. $50 bucks is reeeeal lucky, just figure in and around $200 - depending on the distance ...

 

                                           

 

                                  Terry.

lemmer

I get it - Depends, like in my Grandma's bathroom. That's a good one.

jipster

I assume you are in need of some cash.A dealer will give you around $2,000 less on your trade- in than what you could sell it for yourself. Save yourself some money. Sell, it yourself, then go by off a lot.

blh7068

but a thank you to the car guys here who routinely give advice!(Terry,isell,drift,audia8...others?)

 

Last week I bought a Dodge Magnum RT...and employed the out the door offer as suggested here. The dealer seemed to appreciate that as I got the car for 450 over invoice. It was a larger than expected discount since the RT is somewhat limited production.

 

Again- Thanks guys!

mikefm58

Is this form becoming a standard practice? The last few vehicles I purchased I was told I had to sign it. There was only one that was written way in favor of the dealer, something like "in the event of arbitration buyer must pay all the dealer's attorney's fees". The others were reasonably written, "each party pays for it's own attorney if desired".

 

I really don't like signing these but so far haven't walked out of a deal without signing.

driftracer

it allows the dealership, through its lawyers, to control frivolous lawsuits. If I had a dealership, I wouldn't do sales or service transactions without a signed arbitration agreement.

 

Many people will disagree, but with so many litigious people and shark-type attorneys taking any cases that'll generate a fee (regardless of how the client is handled or how they benefit), it's a smart move for any business owner.

Kirstie_H

Don't forget tonight's member-to-member chat - it's open mic night, so come and discuss whatever's on your mind.

 



 

http://www.edmunds.com/townhall/chat/townhallchat.html

 

6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET. Drop by for live chat with other members. Hope you can join us!

liferules

Interesting...I hadn't seen them. I would have to question the legality of it. Major stores such as Target can't force its customers to sign one, nor can hospitals, doctors, and other governed industries, so why can auto dealers? I have relatives who are lawyers and they've told me that arbitration agreements don't really prevent lawsuits if one really wants one...not that I'm a fan of frivolous lawsuits...

driftracer

the lawyers I work for, who consult with Federal and State Congresses on consumer issues, have told me that the arb agreement doesn't really hold up in court, is more like a small hurdle, but it slows 98% of the frivolous suits, mostly because those suits are brought by overzealous, very litigious people who talk a good game, but actually have very little knowledge of the laws and statutes in place.

 

These are the same folks who tell you they'll sue you for libel or slander when they hear you're bad-mouthing them at the local pub, and the same folks who still insist there's a 3 day grace period to return a new or used car after purchase.

liferules

Don't get me started on the "its not my fault" attitude of many people out there! Too often these people will not listen to reason but want to hold anyone but themselves accountable.

driftracer

it every day...

imidazol97

>to hold anyone but themselves accountable.

 

I second that. Their parents never taught them that life is 90% you and 10% what others do. They've also been encouraged by a government/politicians setup through the last 40 years that makes everything someone else's responsibility and that shows that just passing another law will 'fix' all problems that are perceived, real or not, fixable or not.

 

To stay on topic, how do the car dealers feel about this? and when did they rescind the 3-day return period??? LOL

rroyce10

  ......... More and more companies are using Arb contracts .. builders, credit card co's, the boating industry, golf courses and the list gets bigger every year .. what makes them work is, they have to go thru all of the steps first and it's becoming more and more effective everyday .....

 

             I'm sure a lawyer told you they don't work, have you ever seen a Minister and a Preacher agree on a Sunday.? ..l.o.l....

 

                                    Terry.

manamal

From your work with the lemon law cases, any feel for the Mazda6 wagon? I was looking at a Subie Legacy GT wagon, but the Mazda6 GT wagon is a nice package (though not as nice), but costs about 7K less (after discounts, etc).

driftracer

in a case, so that's a good thing. I haven't heard a negative thing about that model.

isellhondas

For some reason this "3 day" thing keeps coming up.

 

As far as I know, there NEVER was a three day return law. This applies to solicited sales. A guy comes to your door and sells you a Kirby vacuum cleaner. You go to a timeshare meeting and decide on impulse to sign up for one.

 

That sort of thing.

benderofbows

Hey driftracer, how about with the 02-05 Explorers? I'm sure you see some lemon law cases for them, but are there proportionately more of them than of your average SUV?

driftracer

they are absolutely HORRIBLE and I see a steady average (in the whole firm) of 25-30 new cases per week...

 

They eat transmissions, go through fuel pumps, and have had engine issues with the 4.0.

 

Like I said, I like them, but I wouldn't consider buying one. This is 2001-2004 models, for reference.

dbauer

im wondering...the 2001 explorer is a completely different model than 2002-2004...which is which?

benderofbows

Thanks for the quick reply! I like mine so far and typically defend its reputation for quality/reliability, but I have been hearing some real horror stories and might buy an extended warranty if I keep mine after the original warranty runs out (but I typically can't hold on to a vehicle very long!)

exb0

I don’t know if it matters to you, but I just looked up Consumer Reports reliability ratings and Subaru Outback H6 scores about +35 above average, and Mazda 6 scores -30 below average.

I know, CR is not perfect… just FYI.

manamal

It does, If the price was not 7K different, I would go for the Subie.

driftracer

I have seen a steady increase of Explorer cases, having started doing what I do in 2001, starting with 1997-1998 models. The newer models (02 and up) have nearly doubled in case numbers.

sfd992

I have been researching buying a new Chevy Colorado recently and have talked to a dealer in my area via email. The truck I am interested in had to be located, which they found 2 of them out of state. When and if I decide to purchase one will I still have room to negotiate to invoice price and additional dealer installed accessories?

Are there any hidden bit falls I should know about before deciding this is the way to go or should I just except one that is on the lot to get the lowest price possible. Any suggestions?

Thanks
Mike

dbauer

your dealer will lose any holdback, if applicable, to locate the truck for you...you should be willing to pay a couple hundred more for the located one rather than the in-stock model. whether its worth it or not, is up to you.

xcel

Hi All:

A fellow Edmunds member mentioned that the following situation might have been discussed here in the past … I saw it in my own replies to someone who went by the nick “Got Cheated” but I cannot find the specific post?

Here are the details of the latest ordeal … Rx300ss E-mailed 5 or so local Honda dealerships for a quote on a brand new 05 Accord I4 w/ Auto - EX-L w/ NAVI. The lowest price quote came back at $22,200 including destination from O’Hare Honda here near Chicago. This was the lowest price anyone has ever seen so he went in, signed the papers, and has been driving his new car for almost a week. Last night, he replied back into the Honda Accord --> Prices Paid and Buying Experiences forum with the following:

Post # 6719 on page 337:

asenj, "Honda Accord: Prices Paid & Buying Experience" #6700, 17 Feb 2005 12:44 pm

All,

Just a quick update on my I4 EXL-NAVI for $22200. O'hare Honda called me sometime last week to tell me that price they sold me the car was NOT the right price. They are claiming that they've quoted me a price for EXL w/o NAVI. All the doc's I have signed says EXL-NAVI and I took delivery of EXL-NAVI. Needless to say, I am seeking leagal counsel at this time. I do not know what the outcome will be, only time will tell. I would NOT suggest purchasing your new vehicle from O'hare Honda anymore.

I will keep you guys updated on the outcome.

He showed me his E-Mail quote from O’Hare Honda last week before all of this and it definitely included the words: “Accord EX-L with NAVI” as did his sales paperwork.

What possible recourse could O’Hare Honda have to ask Rx300ss for more money when he is driving the exact car at the exact price negotiated already?

Thanks for any and all replies.

Wayne R. Gerdes

stickguy

Well, the dealer has absolutley no recourse, legally or ethically, and I can't believe they had the nerve to send that letter.

If they really screwed up that bad, they should eat the difference and work on thier internal controls.

The fact that they documented the right model all along further undermines their case.

rroyce10

........ It's time to eat that one ...........

Terry.

richard103

I've found that there are still quite a few NEW 2004 Santa Fe's on local dealer lots, and Hyundai is offering some pretty nice incentives right now ($1750 rebate + $1750 loyalty).

What dealer discount should I expect on a 2.7 liter, front-wheel drive GLS (MSRP around $22.5k), BEFORE the rebate and incentive are subtracted? Is the factory providing any $ help to dealers to move the '04s? Thanks.

dbauer

invoice difference for the nav system is around $1600. i dont see the reason to call him back, unless they are professionally suicidal.

danf1

You should be able to buy an 04 at invoice or slightly less. Hyundai does nothing special for the dealers to get rid of old inventory. They increase rebates only. That being said, rebates on leftover models don't stay forever so they should be anxious to sell it. If not then you know why it is still there.

karrot

I negotiated a price $100 over invoice for a Honda Odyssey EX-L today, via email and then phone. The dealer claims to have the color we want on his lot and will hold it until we can arrive on Friday. I have an email confirming the Model, Make, Color, year, total price, and that there will not be any additional charges or fees.

My concern, however, is that the dealer is 3.5 hours away. He seems VERY eager to have us appear in person. I am 8 months pregnant and we have a toddler -- it's going to be a long day of driving. I don't want to get there only to be duped. The dealer claims he's not allowed to accept deposits, per dealership policy. Is there anything else can do to ensure we're getting what was promised, or does this situation (no deposit wanted, eager to get us on the lot) sound a little suspicious?

driftracer

accept deposits? That's just crazy.

I would ask "what if?" - what if you drove that far, in your condition, with a small child, and things change or the vehicle is sold? Will they reimburse your fuel and food expenses?

I did this several years back, when I worked at a dealership in the middle of Wyoming - people would be reluctant to drive so far, and I'd promise them a tank of gas and buying them lunch if we couldn't strike a deal.

guss

How many times did you have to reimburse people for their tank of gas and lunch ?

I like that approach , it takes alot of the fear factor out.

ksccts

You are driving a total of seven hours, pregnant and with a toddler to buy a CAR? Is there not a closer Honda dealer? It's crazy to drive that far just to save a little money. Is your sanity and time not worth anything to you?

driftracer

Never did, but the first thing I showed them was a filled out "We Owe" slip for a tank of gas and lunch for their family for making the 150-200 mile drive.

At the very least, they wouldn't be out any money, just time, for making a run at us.

The brighter side of this is that we had a Ford dealer in Casper, WY that had a monopoly on Ford truck sales in that area until we got our toll-free number, started advertising in the area, etc. These guys, bless 'em, (Greiner Ford), would hit people between the eyes at MSRP for the new truck and 2 grand back of book on their trade - we'd beat the deal by $1500-2000, make a full pop deal, get all kinds of great word-of-mouth advertising, and life was good - it took Greiner over 2 years to figure out what was wrong.

rroyce10

....... Most dealers will take a deposit to hold a vehicle for a day or two - "depending" on the situation, like an old customer, a nice Big Fat deposit is always nice, especially if it's a hard to get, hard to find vehicle .. -or- just maybe pregnant lady driving a looong distance, etc, etc, etc.com ...

Do you know what I like about this deal ...? --- Nothing.! ---

It's a long drive, your in a family way, and you have -0-, no copy of the contract, no signatures .. so you have less than one, na-da to show price or commitment by the dealer -- can we spell PASS..?





Terry.

ksccts

Well said, Terry!

dbauer

if you have settled on price, have the dealer fax you a buyers order with the VIN # and a managers approval (signature). if they wont, then move on.

also, i would go to a closer honda dealer and have them trade for it if the far-away dealer doesnt come through.

bobst

You asked, "Is there anything else can do to ensure we're getting what was promised?"

My answer is No.

After you drive 3.5 hours to get there, I bet you will have an eye-opening experience.

kyfdx

yeah.. what dbauer says..

And, I'd drive 7 hours round-trip for a $100 over invoice deal on a new Odyssey.. That is probably $1000 saving on a really good deal..

Which is why I agree with dbauer.. If they won't do all of the paperwork ahead of time, I woudln't bother...

regards,
kyfdx

dbauer

that is twice in the last week we have agreed...i think i better start playing the lottery...lol.

also, 2005 was never mentioned...is this a leftover 2004?

infinia1

driftracer-what town and dealer did you work for in wyoming? i'm only curious because i live in casper and friends have told me about the Greiner experience that you mentioned. fremont?, my best guess.

ksccts

If it sounds too good to be true....

driftracer

Yes, Fremont - seriously good bunch of folks there.

karrot

Thanks for all the advice. I followed dbauer's advice and an hour later had a Purchase Order in hand (including total price, signature, and VIN). That makes me feel much better.

The price (it is an 05 Odyssey) is $2000-$3000 less than what anyone could provide in town, so this does make it worth the drive to us. We live in a large, rural state, with only one big city. Three dealers in smaller towns 4-6 hours from here were very willing to drop close to invoice, and no one in town could even come close.

I also found a one-way rental car for my husband, getting me out of the very-pregnant-woman-with-toddler-in-a-car-for-7-hours epic. (THANK GOODNESS.)

Feel like I've done all I can. We'll see how things turn out on Friday.

chow3

I was recently told by the internet salesman at a high volumn dealer(jeep dodge ect) that my edmunds invoice on an unlimited did not include the holdback cost. I always thought holdback was dealer profit built into the invoice cost. What is this "new" holdback cost that is added to invoice??

heywood1

And you're asking the foxes here that are guarding the henhouse because....?