MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
Thanks so much for more great advice everyone. I realize now exactly what I'll be getting into, but I still feel that the manual tranny is the best for me, and I'm willing to take the hit for it down the road if/when the time comes. I'll keep you posted with what happens!
My girlfriend bought a truck and took it home without showing her drivers license. They told her to bring it tomorrow. I now find out it is expired. Is it legal to sell her the truck
I don't care if you have a driver's license, just good insurance. I do need phot ID because I'll be notarizing documents, but it doesn't need to be a driver's license.
Some of the posters here, are rather interesting people... and I don't mean the pros.
Speaking of the business of selling non-automotive products out of converted dealerships...I tried to convince the wife to pick out what she wanted, and then order directly from the factory. Thus saving a huge portion of the cost...but, alas... she didn't want to wait.
And yes, this store is in a converted dealership. And their product lineup is rather nice, prices reflecting accordingly. I bet their profit margin is much higher than the Izuzuki dealer next to them.
The last two new cars I purchased where Z plan purchases. We took what ever additional discounts were offered, and left the deal at that. I felt that the deals were already great, and didn't want to take what ever was left. Since the Z plan(FORD, for those not in the know)already takes the wind out of a nice commission.
But, then again, I do realize that the pros have kids and a mortgage, too.
>But, then again, I do realize that the pros have kids and a mortgage, too.
...and a yacht, winter home in Florida and a tropical island, summer getaway in Michigan or ????, their hot air balloon for allegedly advertising, their racing car team, their son's new business they're backing for him, and all those other things that people scrimping to get by have. LOL
Actually in this area dealerships tend to stand empty and then reopen under a foreign car brand. I can't think of one that's been converted to other sales.
"and a yacht, winter home in Florida and a tropical island, summer getaway in Michigan or ????"
Keep perpetuating that stereotype, and people will keep thinking there's a 60% markup in new cars and you can return them within 3 days if you don't like them.
I don't doubt it is hard work to manage a dealership... on the other hand, I would be surprised if dealership owners (not the salespeople or even the managers) were anything but wealthy - why be in a high-expense, dubious-reputation line-of-business otherwise?
I met a dealership principal privately, literally on the other side of the railroad tracks - nice couple, quite obviously well above middle-class, which I am sure they worked hard for. So I am not sure if this "stereotype" is wrong, unwarranted or damaging to the profession.
This is the biggest myth in car sales, I think. Federal law says you have a three-day "cooling off" period on any product bought/contract signed IN YOUR HOME. The assumption is you might or might not have been "ready to buy," because someone came to your home. If you go out and shop for something, car or otherwise, it is assumed you are in the market for it. Once you sign that auto contract and pay for it (or arrange financing) you have bought a car. I've been in finance offices with signs that say when you drive off, it's your car.
asafonov pegged it - this federal statute was brought about during WW2 when vacuum cleaner and siding salesmen would sell the wife these items and services while their husbands were away at war - if a siding salesman sells you something, you have 3 days to cancel, provided the siding was sold to you in your home...another reason these home carpet shopping outfits want to install same day or next day....
The irony of this dealer wealth comparison is that if you're capable of locking down a couple million of your own money, why wouldn't you live like you're worth a million dollars? Nowhere does is say that you have to drive a 1976 Granada and live in a trailer park. (No offense to my older sister...)
I am planning on ordering a new 300c. I only want specific options and color-combo and am unwilling to take a demo or options that I do not wish to pay for.
I recognize that a dealer needs to pay for other advertising, utilities, etc and therefore needs to make "some" money on the car.
However, I also know that with an ordered car he will not have to pay "lot fees".
What would a reasonable profit be for an ordered car? Can I write in a stipulation that the car has to be delivered to me within 8weeks so that he doesn't just junk the deal?
Man, all I have for you is bad news.
Doesn't matter if the dealer has to pay lot fees or not - you're not going to get a better deal with an ordered car. From the dealer's perspective, they have to go through the trouble of ordering and then tracking a car just for you, rather than just selling you something that's already there and they are paying interest on every month.
Also, the 300C is pretty hot right now, so you're probably not going to see too much of a discount below MSRP (in my area, Edmunds is showing an average of $250 below MSRP, whoopee). So they're not going to give it away to you for "some" profit when they can sell it later that afternoon for sticker. This is not a Ford Windstar or anything.
And I don't think there's any way you can get a stipulation that'll it'll be there in 8 weeks or whatever, because the dealer pretty much has zero control over that.
Finally, and this is just advice, if you're already paying around $35K for a car, you might want to pay a little bit extra and get a more common option package because it'll be easier to sell later.
Don't mean to be a big downer, but I think the 300C is a car worth paying the money for. You won't be getting "ripped off" because everyone else is paying too. Just see what other people are paying here at Edmunds, buy it, and enjoy!
Yup, you're looking at a car that is basically going for ~MSRP in most areas, so be prepared to pay it. If you're on the west coast, you might check our 300/300C discussion. Members who have placed orders are reporting extremely long wait times, like 4-5 months.
If it's the vehicle you want, you need to be prepared to buy one off the lot, or to wait as long as it takes.
The good news is that our members who have purchased this vehicle are pretty darn happy with it. You might have a look at this post:
from a member who used the Costco program and paid $500 over invoice. This might make it more economical for you to purchase a 300C off the lot, with perhaps more options, than to order one with fewer options.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
What do the salespeople talk about when they are huddled in a tight little pack, cigarettes ablaze? I have noticed the good salesmen seem to avoid this group.
Come to think of it, I really try to avoid salesmen who are smoking when I pull up to the lot. They smell bad, and they make the cars smell bad.
We have a designated smoking area far out of the customers sight and very few salespeople who smoke.
By the same token, some customers have trouble understanding why we will devalue a trade in that is "smoked out". A heavy smoker's car can smell so bad we have to take them to the auction.
And, no, NOTHING will get rid of this. Even worse are smelly dogs in a car.
Last time I took her (on my way to work) she made #2 in the back. This from a 70 lb dog. It was hard enough to roll around the back of my Pathfinder, but soft enough to leave a little bit behind every time it rebounded off the sides of cargo area.
Point is, it made a very, very bad smell. I was late for work that day, but after a lot of cleaning my vehicle was back to its normal semi-bad smell after a couple of days.
had time to detail it today, and 4-5 hours to air out...
My Dakota is in the shop, so my wife and I took the Ion Redline when we took the new puppy to the vet for shots and went to the lawfirm to exchange files.
The vet's office is only a mile away, but during the 18 mile roundtrip to the firm, the puppy (German Shepard) hurled 8 (Eight) times in the back seat, all down in the rear center console and seatbelts...
In my new car...the only thing that brightened my day, other than getting it cleaned up nicely, was that the Eagles lost last night.
Going back to my "salesmen are people, too" line. One of the local Ford boys, has been there over 3 years, I guess he moves a few. He drives an 03 Focus ZTS. So, I know he isn't getting rich. And his wife works full time as an LPN. I see him at church, that's how I know what he drives. Wife's car is something a little older.
I can't imagine sticking a 70lb pooch in a travel kennel(or whatever they call them), but a little bitty puppy, yeah.
Wife wants a dog, but isn't willing to adjust her spending habits to afford one. That's fine with me. Adding the cost of dog ownership onto the cost of kid raising.....well, I'm quite positive many of you out there know about that.
you can babysit my new puppy, a 9 week old, 18 lb, german shepard for a week - I need some sleep - that'll cure you of looking for a new pet and let you rearrange your car buying priorities...
I'll be right up. Just kidding! Actually, I couldn't do that, I'd get too attatched, and wouldn't want to return it. My 3 yr old girl would love it! She has a week old imaginary/invisible doggie, named Blackie. She says that's because he's black.
Grandma has been pining for another dog. She had 2 toy Poodles, over a 33 year period. Each lived over 16 years. I hope she gets one, that'll make 'em all happy. And save me the money.
Younger brother bought an AKC pup, an American Bulldog, IIRC. She, Mercy, is over 80lbs now, and only bro can walk her. His wife can't, and his youngens(8yrs and younger)certainly can't. Really nice dog, tho.
Someone is selling AKC Weimeraner(sp?) pups, I could see myself with 2 of them. Just wishful thinking.
Don't worry, nothing more than the same sour grapes from the have-nots.
I agree that people who take big risks should be rewarded in the same way.
These dealers on average employ about 100 people each. People like you and me who are trying to earn a living. They provide you with a good, not just a service. Add in all the other people whose incomes are influenced by dealers, car insurance people, jiffy lube techs,DMV employees, even the moderators on this board all owe their livlehoods to prosperous car dealers.
This is purely my observation. I would never let one of the herd of sales people who are in a circle smoking help me. I try to speak with someone on the phone and then set (and keep) appointments.
Part of my company's business is sales effectiveness training. I don't have any car sales experience, but I do use the example of the smoking circle in my sales consulting. I tell people that it seems like it would be much more effective to be proactive and instead of waiting on the "ups", I would be in the office doing something like:
Networking
Direct Mail (targeted)
Phone calls
Notes
Follow up calls (say from people who have a lease coming due)
I also think they would be much more effective if they were extremely organized. They should have a computer and a contact management program such as ACT or Goldmine and keep up with their prospects and activities that way. I've dealt with a couple of car sales people who were organized that way and I would think they were very successful. I still get a birthday card from a guy I bought a truck from in 2001. You can bet he's very organized to be able to keep up with that sort of thing on his customers. He calls me about once a quarter and just says hello and usually asks for referrals. It seems like a better use of his time than huddling up with the other sales people.
Again, I have no car sales experience, but I would think those who are proactive with their marketing instead of smoking a butt and waiting to pounce on the first person would be much more successful.
a sale doesnt count on the books until the deal is fully funded, meaning financing is officially approved, and all parties have signed. it is also a preference that the customer take physical delivery of the vehicle as well.
As car salesmen, do you like when consumers shop by monthly payment? Don't you make more money that way?
I'd like a minivan for under $300/mo w/one power sliding door. I'm not particular on other options but would like decent gas mileage (unlike Kia but they don't have power doors anyway). Lease is fine; prefer no money down.
Any ideas? Grand Caravans, T&C, Sienna, Odyssey all seem out of league. Need to look into Mazda still.
Anyone want a sale in Ohio? Let me know I turn my leased vehicle in 2/16; need something SOON!
Thanks,
Terri
P.S. I still like SUV's but another bun is in the oven. I think a minivan will be most practical.
you set aside all the important issues, like price paid, trade allowance, interest rate, cash down, etc - you have a target payment, and as long as its met, you're happy - not smart from a consumer perspective.
Everyone's a payment buyer, in some form or another, but to concentrate solely on payment and lose sight of all the other parameters is financially foolish.
Right - what if you're offered a $300/month payment, but that's financing for 72 months at 7%? You got your payment, but that's a bad, bad deal.
You can set yourself a limit of $300/month, and that's fine. But that needs to be in the back of your mind as you primarily research the value of your trade (if you have one), a reasonable purchase price for the van, and your credit score and financing options.
Now, we can help you with all of that, for sure. Let's get started - do you have a trade-in, or any cash to put down on the deal?
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
in 1999, I was an F&I manager for a decent sized auto group in TX - one customer I remember like it was yesterday.
He had talked to one of our newbies and had driven a new 2000 base Neon. The car stickered at around $14k, with a $1,000 rebate.
The new guy had got him landed on a specific car/stock number, it was a busy day, and both our closers were with customers, so I went out. This guy was a 35 year old working man with a gruff voice, and he said "by God, I'll buy that car, but you're not ripping me off! I'm not paying a penny over $400 a month!"
I was a little shocked, and I told him I'd see what I could do for him.
At MSRP, minus rebate, no trade, with a 7/100 DCC warranty marked up to $1995, credit life and disability, and GAP insurance, I couldn't hit $400 on 60 months....he had good credit, his rate was around 5.9%, got a point of rate, and closed him and his "fully protected vehicle AND loan" at $378...
He was estatic, and had REALLY pulled one over on us...
See what happens when all you see is payment, and not the rest of the numbers in the car deal?
I think a lot of that comes from domestic make advertising.. $35K MSRPs for $24K, etc, etc..
Most people have no idea how to calculate a monthly payment, or how to read fine print.. And, since they see that they can lease that $24K Ford Taurus for $259/mo, they just assume it works that way for everything else....
I'm sure it is a pain.. but, the advertising just begs people to walk in, uninformed....
Yeah, them too.. Lots of fine print there.. only 10K/yr and $2500 cap cost reduction..and, as always.. plus tax. I think that was in December.. a little higher now..also.. very little equipment.. automatic and heated seats as the only options..
Actually... for a "real" lease deal... check this post out..
Comments
just what is a good deal?
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Speaking of the business of selling non-automotive products out of converted dealerships...I tried to convince the wife to pick out what she wanted, and then order directly from the factory. Thus saving a huge portion of the cost...but, alas... she didn't want to wait.
And yes, this store is in a converted dealership. And their product lineup is rather nice, prices reflecting accordingly. I bet their profit margin is much higher than the Izuzuki dealer next to them.
The last two new cars I purchased where Z plan purchases. We took what ever additional discounts were offered, and left the deal at that. I felt that the deals were already great, and didn't want to take what ever was left. Since the Z plan(FORD, for those not in the know)already takes the wind out of a nice commission.
But, then again, I do realize that the pros have kids and a mortgage, too.
...and a yacht, winter home in Florida and a tropical island, summer getaway in Michigan or ????, their hot air balloon for allegedly advertising, their racing car team, their son's new business they're backing for him, and all those other things that people scrimping to get by have. LOL
Actually in this area dealerships tend to stand empty and then reopen under a foreign car brand. I can't think of one that's been converted to other sales.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Keep perpetuating that stereotype, and people will keep thinking there's a 60% markup in new cars and you can return them within 3 days if you don't like them.
>return them within 3 days
Isn't there a return policy on contracts within 3 days?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I met a dealership principal privately, literally on the other side of the railroad tracks - nice couple, quite obviously well above middle-class, which I am sure they worked hard for. So I am not sure if this "stereotype" is wrong, unwarranted or damaging to the profession.
Nobody begrudges the local donut franchisee from living a nice life.
The irony of this dealer wealth comparison is that if you're capable of locking down a couple million of your own money, why wouldn't you live like you're worth a million dollars? Nowhere does is say that you have to drive a 1976 Granada and live in a trailer park. (No offense to my older sister...)
I recognize that a dealer needs to pay for other advertising, utilities, etc and therefore needs to make "some" money on the car.
However, I also know that with an ordered car he will not have to pay "lot fees".
What would a reasonable profit be for an ordered car? Can I write in a stipulation that the car has to be delivered to me within 8weeks so that he doesn't just junk the deal?
Man, all I have for you is bad news.
Doesn't matter if the dealer has to pay lot fees or not - you're not going to get a better deal with an ordered car. From the dealer's perspective, they have to go through the trouble of ordering and then tracking a car just for you, rather than just selling you something that's already there and they are paying interest on every month.
Also, the 300C is pretty hot right now, so you're probably not going to see too much of a discount below MSRP (in my area, Edmunds is showing an average of $250 below MSRP, whoopee). So they're not going to give it away to you for "some" profit when they can sell it later that afternoon for sticker. This is not a Ford Windstar or anything.
And I don't think there's any way you can get a stipulation that'll it'll be there in 8 weeks or whatever, because the dealer pretty much has zero control over that.
Finally, and this is just advice, if you're already paying around $35K for a car, you might want to pay a little bit extra and get a more common option package because it'll be easier to sell later.
Don't mean to be a big downer, but I think the 300C is a car worth paying the money for. You won't be getting "ripped off" because everyone else is paying too. Just see what other people are paying here at Edmunds, buy it, and enjoy!
If it's the vehicle you want, you need to be prepared to buy one off the lot, or to wait as long as it takes.
The good news is that our members who have purchased this vehicle are pretty darn happy with it. You might have a look at this post:
snowy, "Chrysler 300/300C" #3949, 7 Feb 2005 11:11 am
from a member who used the Costco program and paid $500 over invoice. This might make it more economical for you to purchase a 300C off the lot, with perhaps more options, than to order one with fewer options.
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Come to think of it, I really try to avoid salesmen who are smoking when I pull up to the lot. They smell bad, and they make the cars smell bad.
We have a designated smoking area far out of the customers sight and very few salespeople who smoke.
By the same token, some customers have trouble understanding why we will devalue a trade in that is "smoked out". A heavy smoker's car can smell so bad we have to take them to the auction.
And, no, NOTHING will get rid of this. Even worse are smelly dogs in a car.
Last time I took her (on my way to work) she made #2 in the back. This from a 70 lb dog. It was hard enough to roll around the back of my Pathfinder, but soft enough to leave a little bit behind every time it rebounded off the sides of cargo area.
Point is, it made a very, very bad smell. I was late for work that day, but after a lot of cleaning my vehicle was back to its normal semi-bad smell after a couple of days.
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My Dakota is in the shop, so my wife and I took the Ion Redline when we took the new puppy to the vet for shots and went to the lawfirm to exchange files.
The vet's office is only a mile away, but during the 18 mile roundtrip to the firm, the puppy (German Shepard) hurled 8 (Eight) times in the back seat, all down in the rear center console and seatbelts...
In my new car...the only thing that brightened my day, other than getting it cleaned up nicely, was that the Eagles lost last night.
Too much information.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I can't imagine sticking a 70lb pooch in a travel kennel(or whatever they call them), but a little bitty puppy, yeah.
Wife wants a dog, but isn't willing to adjust her spending habits to afford one. That's fine with me. Adding the cost of dog ownership onto the cost of kid raising.....well, I'm quite positive many of you out there know about that.
Grandma has been pining for another dog. She had 2 toy Poodles, over a 33 year period. Each lived over 16 years. I hope she gets one, that'll make 'em all happy. And save me the money.
Younger brother bought an AKC pup, an American Bulldog, IIRC. She, Mercy, is over 80lbs now, and only bro can walk her. His wife can't, and his youngens(8yrs and younger)certainly can't. Really nice dog, tho.
Someone is selling AKC Weimeraner(sp?) pups, I could see myself with 2 of them. Just wishful thinking.
I agree that people who take big risks should be rewarded in the same way.
These dealers on average employ about 100 people each. People like you and me who are trying to earn a living. They provide you with a good, not just a service. Add in all the other people whose incomes are influenced by dealers, car insurance people, jiffy lube techs,DMV employees, even the moderators on this board all owe their livlehoods to prosperous car dealers.
Part of my company's business is sales effectiveness training. I don't have any car sales experience, but I do use the example of the smoking circle in my sales consulting. I tell people that it seems like it would be much more effective to be proactive and instead of waiting on the "ups", I would be in the office doing something like:
Networking
Direct Mail (targeted)
Phone calls
Notes
Follow up calls (say from people who have a lease coming due)
I also think they would be much more effective if they were extremely organized. They should have a computer and a contact management program such as ACT or Goldmine and keep up with their prospects and activities that way. I've dealt with a couple of car sales people who were organized that way and I would think they were very successful. I still get a birthday card from a guy I bought a truck from in 2001. You can bet he's very organized to be able to keep up with that sort of thing on his customers. He calls me about once a quarter and just says hello and usually asks for referrals. It seems like a better use of his time than huddling up with the other sales people.
Again, I have no car sales experience, but I would think those who are proactive with their marketing instead of smoking a butt and waiting to pounce on the first person would be much more successful.
Just my $.02
Mike
No argument on dealer risk, wealth, or lifestyle.
Now I am laughing even harder.
Bob
Sometimes we all get involved in too much detail.
I'm glad someone caught the dry humor there.
But he painted a great picture about the rolling sausages. A little ammonia water would have done wonders to clean up.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I'd like a minivan for under $300/mo w/one power sliding door. I'm not particular on other options but would like decent gas mileage (unlike Kia but they don't have power doors anyway). Lease is fine; prefer no money down.
Any ideas? Grand Caravans, T&C, Sienna, Odyssey all seem out of league. Need to look into Mazda still.
Anyone want a sale in Ohio? Let me know
Thanks,
Terri
P.S. I still like SUV's but another bun is in the oven. I think a minivan will be most practical.
Everyone's a payment buyer, in some form or another, but to concentrate solely on payment and lose sight of all the other parameters is financially foolish.
You can set yourself a limit of $300/month, and that's fine. But that needs to be in the back of your mind as you primarily research the value of your trade (if you have one), a reasonable purchase price for the van, and your credit score and financing options.
Now, we can help you with all of that, for sure. Let's get started - do you have a trade-in, or any cash to put down on the deal?
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Review your vehicle
He had talked to one of our newbies and had driven a new 2000 base Neon. The car stickered at around $14k, with a $1,000 rebate.
The new guy had got him landed on a specific car/stock number, it was a busy day, and both our closers were with customers, so I went out. This guy was a 35 year old working man with a gruff voice, and he said "by God, I'll buy that car, but you're not ripping me off! I'm not paying a penny over $400 a month!"
I was a little shocked, and I told him I'd see what I could do for him.
At MSRP, minus rebate, no trade, with a 7/100 DCC warranty marked up to $1995, credit life and disability, and GAP insurance, I couldn't hit $400 on 60 months....he had good credit, his rate was around 5.9%, got a point of rate, and closed him and his "fully protected vehicle AND loan" at $378...
He was estatic, and had REALLY pulled one over on us...
See what happens when all you see is payment, and not the rest of the numbers in the car deal?
On dollar bills, stuffed into his pillow...
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I usually sleep on my right side...that's how I sleep at night.
For reference, I only made about $200 on the deal, but it did wonders for my month average number.
We see people all the time who come in looking at $30K vehicles and expect to be at $250-300 per month.
It happens every minute, of every hour of everyday .....
Terry.
Most people have no idea how to calculate a monthly payment, or how to read fine print.. And, since they see that they can lease that $24K Ford Taurus for $259/mo, they just assume it works that way for everything else....
I'm sure it is a pain.. but, the advertising just begs people to walk in, uninformed....
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Isn't BMW offering a model for $299 a month on a 39 month lease?
Actually... for a "real" lease deal... check this post out..
kyfdx, "Chrysler Crossfire" #593, 9 Feb 2005 11:48 am
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