Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

driftracer

and I've used the same concept - as an F&I manager, I was a much stronger closer than anyone on the floor, same with our sales managers - they wouldn't have become managers if they weren't the best salespeople in the store - if you want to deal with a hard-core, 20 year pro, instead of a newbie, or 2-3 year person, go ahead - it's going to cost you, though....

 

That's like being an amateur pool player and entering a tournament and demanding to be paired with the best player there - you might win, but I doubt it.

 

You go ahead and think that way, though - I have a P&L statement to worry about, and you'll help me ease my mind just fine.

719b

the funny thing is you end up dealing with the sales manager directly or indirectly.

most salesmen don't have the authority to negotiate a deal... so they are running back and forth to the sales manager every time the offer changes.

you may meet the sales manager, or you may not, but you deal with him either way.

dglozman

I don't see any advantages dealing with the sales manager directly. The price is the same - either its acceptable for dealership or not. As 719b just point out that you might save some time since the salesperson must go to sales manager to validate tha price, but in the same time, just imagine a sales manager being not busy for more then 1 min. He will be interrupted constantly (phones, sales people, etc..) and BTW this is not his job to sell cars directly - thats what salespeople for, so why would he deal with the customers if he has 10 people that were hired to do that?

lemmer

Why can't the manager just tell the salesperson the necessary sales price for the car instead of the running back and forth?

danf1

Probably because no matter what number we tell customers, they still want to negotiate. If we don't leave room to negotiate up front, most people will walk out feeling that we tried to make a ton of money on one deal.

 

I can't tell you how many times a customer requested my "best deal" because they refused to negotiate, and then counter offered less money after I gave them a number.

 

If a salesperson is given a bottom price prior to negotiating with the customer, most will sell close to that price. Salespeople tend to be afraid to tell a customer no for fear of losing a deal.

driftracer

then, where are you? You asked for my "best" deal, I gave it to you. If I lower my price to meet your counter, I was lying to begin with - so which is it??

 

Do you want me to lie to you, so you can shave off some more money, so you can feel better?

kyfdx

People that equate negotiating to lying won't be happy, no matter what...

 

I've been asked my lowest price before.. when selling my car privately.. then ended up selling it for less... I still don't think I was lying..

 

Once you've bought a car from a dealership.. and got to know the sales manager, then sometimes you can do a quicker deal going direct.. especially, if you are reasonable... I did this a couple of times with a guy that had moved on to be the used car manager at a Honda dealership.. Since he had to appraise my trade to begin with, I just went to him directly..

 

Of course, after we struck the deal, he put me with a salesman to write it all up.. It was a mini deal, but it only took 30 minutes of the salesman's time (and less than that with the manager).

 

regards,

kyfdx

danf1

But you are probably the exception. You are an educated customer who knows how the process works. Most people wouldn't have your level of understanding or patience.

ollie416

Hi all! First off, I'd like to say that reading this forum has been quite interesting. I've been reading the posts here for a few days or so, and thanks to everyone for all the great info.

 

 My dilemma, so to speak, is this. I'm a 22 y.o. recent college grad. Just got my first "big-girl" job, and I'm looking to replace my 89 Buick Tank....errr...I mean Park Ave (lol) that has 173K miles on it. She's taken me all the way through college, but I think it's time to put her out to pasture.

 

I've pretty much decided on an 05 Jeep Liberty Renegade. The problem I'm running into is that I'm looking for this vehicle with a manual tranny, and they're very scarce to come by. 99.7% of dealer inventory (from what I can see myself through online inventories, and I know dealers are sometimes able to see different things) are auto-tranny vehicles. I've gotten in touch with three dealerships in my area (Southeastern MA) to see if they could locate a vehicle with the options I'd like. I explained my issue to each of them, but I feel I have the best rapport with a manager from one dealership.

 

After searching for my vehicle, she stated that she couldn't find any in the state with the option setup I wanted, but said she found one with the manual tranny in a neighboring state, but loaded up with just about every option. I told her I really didn't want such a loaded vehicle, because as everyone knows, college kids are poor...lol. (The only option I want is a sunroof.) We've started talking about ordering my vehicle from the factory, and I was told a non-refundable deposit of $1000 was due at the time I ordered and that it would take approximately 6-8 weeks for delivery.

 

I guess what I'm looking for is some advice about how to go about the ordering process and things I should be aware of when doing so. I've done my homework feel confident in my knowledge of the vehicle and of current rebates and have also gotten preapproved for financing through my local credit union. Sorry for such a long post, but this is my first BIG purchase and I'm a little nervous. Thanks in advance for any help!

driftracer

if you don't mind the wait.

 

I, too, am a manual tranmission fan, but that 5-speed will flat kill it on trade-in - you have to think ahead,and make sure you don't mind taking a $2,000-3,000 hit - if it was a Wrangler, it wouldn't matter so much, but there's a strong reason why you can't find a 5-speed Liberty - they don't sell and dealers don't want them.

 

If you have a commute, the auto is a great choice, plus you won't have trouble trading it or selling it when the time comes.

 

A 5-speed Liberty with a sunroof might as well be painted pink with purple spots.

stickguy

But, it's the only way I would buy one!

dbauer

i would look into leasing it if i were you. this way, you get exactly what you want, but you take no resale risk down the road. most people your age, and in your position in life dont keep vehicles very long. you may be the exception, but i wouldnt chance it.

 

make sure you structure the lease properly...

- set plenty of allowable miles

- keep the term as short as is affordable

  - try not to go over 36 months

- put as little money out of your pocket as possible

 

your payment should be about the same as a 60 month financing contract, and you will have the extra resale protection.

ollie416

Thanks for the advice! I guess I'm gonna have to get used to those purple polka-dots! (lol) I had considered leasing, but I plan on keeping the vehicle for quite some time and I feel more comfortable with financing. I have about $6K put aside for the purchase (a $5k down payment and another $1100 or so to cover the tax) which will figure out to be right around a 20% down payment. There's also a strong possibility that my younger brother will purchase the car from me sometime down the road. (Our family tends to shuffle cars around a bit whenever someone needs one.) My commute isn't that bad (about 3 miles each way....lol), so I think I can get away with a manual as far as that goes. I went with the Liberty over the Wrangler because I needed the little bit of extra cargo space, but not something as big as the Grand Cherokee (at least not yet!) I'm still open to any other advice anyone can offer. Thanks again!

xcel

Hi All:

 

      I don’t know if this will help or not but when I purchased the 03 Corolla, the sales lady needed to see the manager … I let her walk back to the office and about a minute later, I walked back to the office as well. I saw the manager, 2 other salesmen, and the sales lady drinking coffee. All of them had a stunned look on their face as I was waiting for an answer. The deal closed about 10 minutes afterwards and maybe 30 more for paperwork. I will still never forget the looks on those 4 however. If I ever bring in a trade (I won’t but you can never say never ;-)), when the guy takes the car, I will be going with him. You are not doing anything until the trade price comes back anyway. If the dealership balks at you riding into the back with YOUR car with the used car guy, that would make an interesting conversation in and of itself …

 

      Why do sales people have to go back to the manager anyway? Do they not have the bottom line %? Does this bottom line change from week to week?

 

      Good Luck

 

      Wayne R. Gerdes

dbauer

ok...without getting snippy, i would advise you to read back about 3000 posts. if you can, it should answer all those questions. if it doesnt, let me know, and i can set it straight.

 

:-O

robr2

But, it's the only way I would buy one!

 

So you're the one with the funny looking paint job.

lemmer

What does it mean when they go back there for a long time? Are they just sitting there?

 

If it has to go back and forth, I want it to be fast. I always have my mind made up about my bottom line price before negotiations begin, and I don't waver from it no matter how long I wait (I do work up from a lower offer to my bottom line but I start with something reasonable, I think). They seem to do this even if I tell them I am short on time. I don't get hard feelings one way or the other, I just want a quick answer.

 

I do get the urge to walk back there and see if there is something I can do to help them speed up the process.

dbauer

there is a common theme with people that are in such a hurry...they are normally not intending to buy anything...normally, they just want a price to shop with.

 

if you intend on buying a vehicle, surely you cant be in a hurry, can you? everyone knows its not like buying a pair of socks. as far as slowing down the process, sometimes its a simple way to find out where you stand. if i am not hurried, i will get everything done in a reasonable amount of time.

 

but if you insist on hurrying me, i will politely ask if there is another time where you arent in such a hurry, since this is such an important decision. if you continue to insist on hurrying me, you WILL NOT get a price.

 

as far as the trade appraisal, a good UCM will take at least a 5-10 minute drive. he will also call several wholesale buyers to make sure his number is accurate. this can take 10-20 minutes, depending on which wholesalers are available to get a bid from.

 

try not to be so paranoid about it. drink coffee, watch tv, twiddle your thumbs, whatever. being in a hurry can only work against you.

stickguy

Sometimes the SM gets backed up with various deals, but in some cases (possibly yours), it is more of a psychological ploy.

 

The sales person wants you to think that he was back there begging and pleading for you to get every dime out of the deal.

 

Right or wrong, if you made an offer and the sales person took it on the spot, most people would immediately start backpedaling from it, assuming they offered too much!

 

Remember, the dealers people are going to be there all day anyway, but the longer they get you to stay, the more invested you become in the process (and sometimes cave in because you are tired and want to get it over with).

dbauer

i forgot about that point too...depending on the store, managers can be spending a bunch of time with a difficult customer, which makes everyone else wait as well.

michaellno

Not that it really matters in this particular discussion, but I believe the Liberty comes with a 6-speed manual transmission for the '05 model year.

 

Still doesn't make it any less pink or with any fewer polka dots, but still.....

 

My .02 -- get what you want, or you'll regret it every day you jump in your new ride!

dbauer

the reason i recommend leasing is just in case, in the next 2 or 3 years, you realize exactly why noone else wants that particular vehicle. ;-)

dsattler

At one dealership I went to, the salesguy said he was taking my offer to the sales manager and was gone for awhile. After 10 minutes I went looking for him and found him and two other salesmen in the sales manager's office watching a ballgame on TV. The look on his face when I asked "Have you had a chance to present my offer yet?" was priceless.

jaserb

and you want a manual trans, and you want a little more cargo room than the Wrangler has, then Jeep just built the perfect vehicle for you...

 

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Followup/articleId=10- 3145

 

I'm betting an Unlimited would be a lot easier to find in a 6-spd than a Liberty, and the stick would probably hurt the value less as well. Plus Wranglers are much cooler than Liberties...

 

-Jason

mirth

Well, I'll start out with another plea to get the auto tranny, for all of the reasons stated above. It will really make selling the Liberty much much harder down the road. And if you change jobs later and end up with a 30 mile commute, the handshaker might not be your friend.

 

Also as stated above, if you lease for 2-3 years instead of buying, then the resale becomes a moot point because you can just give the truck back at the end of the lease.

 

But if you have to buy and you have to have the stick (and why not, it's your car), also make sure you're not digging yourself a financial hole. You've got good money for a downpayment, so you won't be upside-down, but the monthly payment on this car will still be pretty high for a 22 yr old (or at least too high for me when I was 22). Maybe not - maybe you make good money.

 

Assuming all is good, $1000 down to order the car is reasonable. If you walked, the dealer would be stuck with what is basically an unsellable car (a Liberty with a stick). And be prepared to wait a while for it to come in. Ordered cars can easily come in a month past the stated delivery time.

 

Hope you enjoy the car!

Kirstie_H

It sounds like you are well prepared for this purchase - good job on saving for the downpayment and tax! A lot of folks fail to do that, and then they're instantly saddled with negative equity (owing more than it's worth). By putting $5K down, you'll give yourself the freedom to keep, sell, or trade this vehicle pretty much whenever you like.

stickguy

Doesn't the Unlimited only come with an automatic?

jaserb

It's a Rubicon even. I'm not normally a Jeep guy, but I like the Unlimited.

 

-Jason

audia8q

..."What does it mean when they go back there for a long time? Are they just sitting there?..."

 

there could be alot of reasons like others have mentioned....but from my personal standpoint, if I am controlling the pace of the sale I have a much greater chance of making the sale under my terms.

bebe2

When salepeople go back and forward to the manager while you wait forever, it a setup. They are crunching the numbers and checking the figures to see how they can make the most money. They also are game planning on how to handle the customer. The salesperson is given instructions on new questions to ask. They are also testing your limits, they are looking for your hot buttons. The dealer performs with a well created formula. It is like a poker game and everybody at the table is working together to clear you out. After the game they all split the pot. I recently helped my mother buy a car, but before buying I prepared with alot research. When I was researching a friend sent me this Car buying IQ test http://209.12.22.19/alice/cartest/, it made me understand the mind of a saleperson better. It is important that you take control of the buying process. Everybody should know who they are dealing with before they buy a vehicle.

bebe2

It is important to do as much research as possible before purchasing a car. Take your time don't rush. You should make sure you are getting what you want, not what they want to give you. Check the dealer's reputation before selecting them. Ask friends, family and co-workers, but don't only rely on this check out sites like dealershipblues.com, mydealerreport.com and even edmunds.

driftracer

Yeah, darn those "sales" folks, trying to make a profit on a retail product...it's a shame the car business is the only industry that makes a profit.

 

bebe - if your company or business, wherever it is you work, didn't make a profit, you wouldn't get a paycheck - ever think about it like that?

steine13

"It is important that you take control of the buying process. "

 

I dont' seem to have much of a problem getting a deal done -- or getting shown the door -- in 10 or 15 minutes.

 

And that's with saying please and thank you, and nobody's feelings getting all hurt. It's an adversarial process, but only up to a point. Presumably, everyone wants to make the purchase happen.

 

-Mathias

rroyce10

....... Sounds like you have most of your ducks in a row .. you have a very substantial downpayment, your smart "not" to lease on your first vehicle and you know what you want ....

 

          Manual trannys aren't a bad thing, it's the *why* that makes for a bad deal - some folks think they will save gas, some feel they will drive 25k and never be hampered by it, some come out of the honeymoon in a year or less, etc etc ~ and they're super tuff on the resale side, especially SUV's .... but, as long as you're aware of the "the good, the bad and the indifferent" and you have your financing "locked and loaded", then it sounds like your set to go .....

 

           2 things .. never lose what you want for a couple of hundred dollars and "always buy and drive what YOU like .......................

 

                             Terry.

clokdok

I signed for the dealer to obtain a new 2005 Chev Equinox from another dealer for a negotiated new car price. They discovered the vehicle had 1400 miles on it when it arrived on site and offered me a $300 discount. I refused that offer telling them that $300 was not a large enough discount for a demo. I did accept their offer to begin another search. They called again later and offered an $800 discount on the vehicle.

What is a reasonable discount for a vehicle that apparently was used as a demo?

dbauer

i use depreciation values. for example, NADA figures mileage at around $0.20 each. this would be $280 on your vehicle.

 

take the $800 and enjoy it.

dreasdad

I really think they knew the miles before it got there. Maybe they didn't tell the salesman you worked with how many miles it had but some one knew. But a car that is a "demo" usaully has 5,000 to 6,000 miles on it before it is really considered a "demo". Still might be able to work them a little, at least a couple of free oil changes

fredvh

$800 sounds like a terrific discount. I would take it and be very happy!

heywood1

Ever heard of 'the pig and the feed?'

Most car dealerships could afford to sell every vehicle on their lot at cost, as the bread and butter of their business is service (parts and labor) after the sale.

 

My Volvo dealer charges $48 for an oil change. You do the math.

driftracer

you do some more research on that subject, sir, to avoid further empty and inaccurate statements.

rroyce10

... **Most car dealerships could afford to sell every vehicle on their lot at cost, as the bread and butter of their business is service (parts and labor) after the sale**

 

           You didn't print that with a straight face did you ..?

 

              Just a regular ol' Mom and Pop set-up with 80 new cars and 40 used is going to pay somewhere in and around $30/$40 grand a month in just floorplan, add some lights, add some air in the south and some heat in the north and your staring down another $5,000++ a month, lets drop in some insurance, a little advertising, maintenance, water bills, some liability ins, fuel charges and paperwork and thats another $8,000++ a month --- and I won't even go into the costs of Workmans comp, Mortgage payments, city/county taxes, CPA's, payroll costs, 401k's, health insurance, Attorneys, recons, repaints, redo's, broken glass, missed parts and all the stuff it takes to support the sales department, store all the parts and carry the service department ......

  

         Bud.! .. this ain't no lemonade stand.! ..

  

                                   Terry.

 

scammed

My girlfriend bought a used SUV and took it home at night. They followed her home to get a down payment check. They wanted a copy of her drivers license and said she could bring it tomorrow. Her drivers license she finds out is suspended. They didn't even see her license and let her drive home. Can they still sell her the car or can she return it without penalty. They ripped her off badly, Suv is 10,ooo over price for its bad shape. I california. Any help would be appreciated.

driftracer

was suspended? Sounds like a real mess, and dealers aren't the DMV, and aren't the police - one fact exists - she bought a vehicle, with a contract. The rest is a muddy mess.

rroyce10

..... Let's see if I have this right .. your girlfriend is driving around on a suspended license and it's the dealers fault that she can't drive her new vehicle ........ ok, gotcha ..

 

                            Terry.

jlawrence01

Many years ago when I was in the restaurant business, I could not believe the number of people who thought that they could open a restaurant and be instantly profitable. I would *TRY* to talk them out of it as they did not know what they were doing. And generally, about 60 days after opening, they'd be at my doorstep looking for a good exit strategy or ready to revamp everything.

 

Reading this board over the past two years, it sure seems to me that certain posters have all these great ideas about how a dealership *should* be run that are contrary to those who actually do operate one. I would suggest that they scrape together the $1.5-2.0 million together to try out their theories. I am afraid that they will be like some of my college profesoor friends who try to get in business. Book knowledge doesn't always work in the "real" world.

 

Six months ago, I reviewed an AICPA course on accounting for automobile dealerships just for the entertainment value. It reaffirmed how little I know on the operations of a dealership and I had thought that I knew something ...

rkb

I am planning on ordering a new 300c. I only want specific options and color-combo and am unwilling to take a demo or options that I do not wish to pay for.

I recognize that a dealer needs to pay for other advertising, utilities, etc and therefore needs to make "some" money on the car.

However, I also know that with an ordered car he will not have to pay "lot fees".

What would a reasonable profit be for an ordered car? Can I write in a stipulation that the car has to be delivered to me within 8weeks so that he doesn't just junk the deal?

imidazol97

There's so little profit in the auto sales and repair business that several stores in our area have turned themselves into furniture showrooms where there is much more profit to be made. As people have pointed out here before, customers don't go into furniture stores wanting to know how much the store paid for that Broyhill sofa, unlike that Honda Accord in Red on the lot. Thus much more profit can be made in furniture. LOL.

 

 

Add carpet warehouse sales in what used to be the body repair part and watch those profits soar.

 

All this talk about no profit anywhere in the dealership, sales or service: In Accord Prices Paid discussion people are trying to figure out how stores can sell for $500 below invoice and stay in business. There must be hidden discounting and incentives that are not listed on Edmunds and are not known by consumers. You think???

 

Obviously any business must make enough money to pay all the costs and keep the owners happy in profit.

driftracer

"All this talk about no profit anywhere in the dealership, sales or service"

 

Didn't say there was NO profit, just that one side can't fully support the other, with all those millions of dollars made in service.

Kirstie_H

Many messages about dealership profit have been removed. We're not having this argument in two different discussions, so those of you who wish to carry on should do so in the "what makes a good deal?" discussion.

ksccts

Party pooper. Just when it gets interesting!