Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

abtseller

is too strong a term, but I can't think of anything else at the moment. You hear car buyers on here all the time whining about verbal agreements not being honored, but then we have someone with a signed purchase order in their hands, wondering if its ok to welch on a deal?

Too bad the other dealer can't keep the deposit.

Ed

mvargo1

Once you have agreed to purchase a vehicle, it is quite rude to go shiopping around. If you are going to shop around you should do it before you sign a buyers order. It would have been considerate to offer the first dealer a chance to match your second offer, however it sounds as though they had no interest in doing so.

It sounds as if the first dealer did not even try to work with you. It sounds as though they switched straight to the typical high pressure crap that characterizes the buisness. Some dealers are worth paying extra for. I have gotten customers to pay more than other offers, but only in exceptional circumstances where they believe I am worth the extra money.

sergeym

1. Dealer1 did know that silver was one of desirable colors.

2. Dealer1 told me that he search all dealer inventories and could not find a car and we had to go with one in transit from Germany. That's why I was angry when I saw the silver (one of desirable colors) at another dealer's lot. The dealer1 later told me that he called dealer2 and they told him that this silver car was taken for a demo. Is this statement is true or not I do not know.

3. I did not offer dealer1 to match the deal since I believe that it would be a blackmailing. I told them that I prefer black and it was obvious from the conversation that I would rather get black car if I could get similar deal. I told him that $1500 is to much for a color so I left the door open for his offer.

4. Dealer1 spent no more that 1 hour with me and we mostly chat about things not bargained hard. E.g. he told me that they can give me between 24K and 25K for my trade and I said 25 is OK. and so on.

5. I would prefer dealer1 to politely tell me that they cannot much deal2 and will keep my deposit (I still will be $1000 ahead) that get all upset and make me feel guilty.

3.

JPham

At what point in time will a dealer be incented to move a used car? I mean, how long must the used car rot on his lot before the dealer will be motivated to sell it even if it's just to breakeven?

JP

rroyce10

...... A long time ago, my Great grand-father told me: The one that cries the most ..and the longest, is the most guilty.

A quiet man already knows the truth ..and needs not, to speak to others.

Hmmmm ....

Terry.

drkcgray

I am looking at a kia spectra for my son. He doesn't turn 16 til fall. Kia has a $2000. rebate now, but I am wondering if I will be able to get at least as good a deal in the fall when the 03's are out and I'm shopping for an 02. Any thoughts/suggestions?

lancerfixer

You sure that a Spectra is the best choice for a new driver?

http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/99008.htm

CarMan@Edmunds

Hi drkcgray. Although I am not personally a big fan of the Kia Spectra, if you are set on getting this car I don't think that you have to worry about the incentives that are available on it right now going anywhere. Kia usually has consumer cash on the majority of its products, and as is usually the case with all manufacturers this cash will either remain at the same level or increase as the model year progresses. Even though it is impossible to say what a manufacturer will do with their future incentives programs with 100% accuracy, I personally don't think that you have to worry about the cash that is currently available on this car going away.

Car_man
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drkcgray

Lancerfixer,

No I'm not necessarily set on a Spectra. It just seemed to be a nice size and the right price. The only other car near the price range is a Hyundai Accent, which we're also considering...although it's less car (in terms of size). What do you recommend?

drkcgray

I went to the iihs website you listed. It was very interesting, but also somewhat confusing. I had not been on that site before, but I had checked out the crash test results posted by the NHTSA. Some of the results by the two organizations completely contradicted each other. For instance, iihs rated the Hyundai elantra very unfavorably and the Honda Civic as a "best buy", but the NHTSA gave them both the same number of stars (they rate cars on a 5-star system). So, now I guess I'm even more confused. Your suggestions??? I didn't see anything on the Hyundai Accent on either site.

lancerfixer

Well, around this price point, I'd say your best bet would be a used car. At around the $9,000-$10,000 price point, you'll find many more appealing, safer, reliable, roomy cars than the bottom feeder new makes. If the 10 year warranty is what is causing you to look at the Hyundai and Kia, I submit that your son likely won't have the car ten years! :-)

The reason for the wildly divergent crash test score between the IIHS and the NHTSA is their method of testing. The government crashes their cars into a flat wall whereas the the IIHS uses offset crashes at a slightly higher speed. For this reason, I think the IIHS is a better gauge of frontal crash performance. I do, however, like the NHTSA's side impact tests.

Having said all that, I think that at the $10,000 price point, one can find the following used cars, all about 3-5 years old (a little older in the case of the Volvo):
Subaru Impreza (good crash tests and AWD)
Volvo 850 (built like a tank and fun to drive. Really.)
Toyota Corolla (safe, economical, more reliable than an anvil)
Chevy/Geo Prizm (same car as the Corolla, but with Chevy resale)
Honda Civic (see Corolla)
Mazda 626 (Nice cars that the market seems to ignore, hence lousy resale. Hence, one can find one cheap. Avoid the four cylinder/automatic combo, though. Get a manual or find a V-6.)

I can think of a whole bunch of others, but you get the idea. Looking at a used car gives you lots more options at this price point, sometimes with a warranty. Keep in mind, too, the "instant depreciation" from driving a used car off the lot is nearly nil, whereas with a new car (especially a Hyundai or Kia) it's a huge percentage of the car's purchase price. Even if you don't decide to sell the car, say your son wrecks it. The insurance company will give you market value, which wouldn't be a lot.

I hope this helps.

audia8q

I agree with your suggestions....the new driver would be better off with a higher quality used car than a new kia anything.

One point I differ. we find the 626 to be better with the 4 cyl than the 6cyl concerning reliability. The 6 cyl engine is mated with a Ford auto tranny that is less than perfect also some require premium gas...the 4 cyls can be had very reasonably and are more reliable...plus I'm not sure the new driver needs the extra HP.

lancerfixer

Ah. I was under the impression that the four cylinder's auto tranny was the Ford unit, and that's why I made that suggestion. My bad. That's good, too, because the 4/auto is the most common 626 out there.

drkcgray

Thanks for the info. It certainly gives me something to think about. My concern with used cars, particularly at that price is if it soon needs $1000.00 or more in repairs! At least with new, repairs are under warranty.

lancerfixer

Well, that's true, and in some cases (like in the case of, say, a '99 626) there will still be some original factory warranty left. As well, some dealers (my local Honda dealer does this) puts their own warranty on the used Hondas they sell. Additionally, warranties can be bought, though I've never had need for them. Just do your research, find a good car that's been maintained well, run a Carfax on it, have it looked at by a trustworthy independent mechanic, and you should be fine.

pohsyb

I'm a long way off from being able to buy my dream car yet (IS 300), but when the time comes I was planning on going to the nearest dealership, and offering to pay invoice on special order car that is exactly what I want (I am patient and can wait the months it will take).

I figure that this will be good for everyone because the dealer will get the holdback/sale and I will get invoice price drama-free.

Does this sound like a good idea? Will dealers be willing to go for this? Just curious, because in my head its just too simple to actually work.

abtseller

for the vehicle. If the supply is limited, and the demand is high, I doubt you'll get it for invoice. No matter how simple your logic may seem, the dealer sees it as "if I had your dream car sitting here, I could sell it for (insert whatever the markup number over invoice would be) the next day.

Despite how wonderful the ordering/buying process may seem, the dealer is always going to try to sell you something off the lot, its an "instant gratification" thing. Plus, the dealer has to worry about you changing your mind during the months that you're waiting on your car. Someone on this board the other day proved this by backing out of a deal on a new BMW that he'd special ordered. He didn't tell the dealer that he'd ordered from that another color might be suitable, he just decided on a whim that he didn't want to wait.

I hope this helps,

Ed

nyccarguy

If you're out there, could you tell me what the possibility of there being a leftover '01 Prelude Type SH for me?

pohsyb

I would be willing to put a large down payment up front (say 50%). Would that change anything?

abtseller

won't change a thing. The dealer would rather have you finance it anyway. You can still get your dep. back if you cancel the order.

Ed

im_brentwood

Well..

I wouldnt put 50% down on a special order, why tie up the money?

As far as pricing, Im not sure that an IS300 can be bought for invoice. Also, bear in mind that dealers arent always willing to do a cheap deal on an ordered car due to allocation reasons.

I.E. Back in 1998 when I was with a Jaguar store, we could sell every XJR we could get at MSRP. Many stores were over MSRP on them. Bt the key was, Jaguar would only give us a small handful of the cars, we couldnt order as many as we wanted, if that was the case, we'd order 20 of them a month!

As far as an IS300 goes.. your best deal will always be on an in-stock unit.

Bill

pohsyb

I think when the time comes, I'll give it a shot, but if it doesn't fly, no big deal.

I abhor finacing and putting myself into debt so my current plan is to keep making "car payments" to my bank account until I have enough to get something in the IS 300 range. If my current car breaks down irreversibly before then, I will shop around for whatever is in the price range of my bank account.

Once it come time to buy, I plan to demo 3-4 cars in the range I can afford and choose whichever I like best. When I go into buy, I plan to have the actual cash on me (I know $30K may be alot, but I'm willing to chance it). I figure this will keep the negotiations simple (no down payment/monthly payment/finacing to argue, only price) and if nessecary, it can be used as a bargaining tool (to show the saleman I'm serious) plus I'd getting the bonus of seeing some surprised expressions ; )

I know there lots of things that easily can go wrong with this plan (early breakdown, emergencies, etc), but I think it would be fun to pay off a car the same day I buy it. Also, once I get that much money saved I may be more tempted to invest it rather than spend it.

Is there anything inherently stupid about this plan? (mental planning can oftentimes overlook important things)

agt_cooper

First, I'm not a car dealer, so these are simply my uneducated opinions.

1. Car dealers are likely not impressed by someone's ability to buy a car cash. Handling that much cash is more of a pain in the a** than anything else. Do them a favor, and write a check!!

2. Buying a car outright deprives the dealership of some opportunities to make additional profit on your loan. So, if you want to order a popular car and pay for it in cash, your price may be higher than someone who finances a car off the lot.

3. While it might be nice to be "debt free", I'm not sure of the wisdom of putting a substantial amount of cash into a depreciating asset. Some options might be to borrow money secured by your cash. In this case, you'd pay 1% or 2% above the rate you're being paid, but when the loan is paid off, you still have your cash!! You could also find a reasonably safe investment that might actually return more than the prevailing interest rates for automobiles. In this case, you could buy your car with borrowed money, invest your own, and at the end of the loan term, you might just have all your cash, plus a vehicle.

Obviously, you have to do what is most comfortable for you! I wish you luck in whatever you choose.

raybear

Cory, Lexus dealers in Colorado never sell anything for invoice!

sam_beaver

[[Some options might be to borrow money secured by your cash. In this case, you'd pay 1% or 2% above the rate you're being paid, but when the loan is paid off, you still have your cash!! ]]

I don't understand the advantage of this system. If you have the discipline to save (as the original poster did) why not instead pay the cash, and then put whatever a loan payment would be into the bank each month. When you're all done, at exactly the same time that the loan would have been paid off, you'll have the full amount PLUS that extra 1% or 2% that you would have been paying in excess interest.

yaman

Plus the interest you earn on your deposited money is taxable while the interest you are paying on the car loan is non deductible.If you have the money buy the car outright-it will turn out to be a lot cheaper than financing it and leaving your cash in the bank

93fsu1

Just be sure to post the exact date, time and location you plan to be making that $30,000 cash purchase!

mjbwrtr

ok...heres the deal: i leased a 2000 ford ranger last year in november. no problems with it. but today i took it in for maintenance and the dealer (not the one i bought it from) showed me the "history" report they got out of their computer based on my VIN. apparently when it was with its original owner, it needed a new computer, PCM, plugs, wires, missed on 2 cylinders, and had several problems like that. the dealer i bought it from never told me this, even though they themselves did the service on the truck a mere month before i bought it. i thought i was getting a bulletproof truck and it appears that i got a trouble-prone one. shouldnt they have HAD to tell me the history BEFORE i bought it? am i "out" of the lemon law coverage, even if i buy it?

lancerfixer

It was never really a lemon to begin with. It had problems, and they were fixed. I'm not sure about all states, but lemon laws only usually apply to cars that have been in for repairs for the same problem three times without a fix. I've got a friend who had 2 Mercedes C Classes bought back under lemon law. He finally got an Audi.

agt_cooper

Here are some numbers related to the keep the cash vs. pay for the car outright argument.

Let's assume a 30,000 cost for the car, a savings rate of 4%, and therefore, a 5% secured loan rate.

If you pay for the car outright, then save 500.00 per month so you'll have your 30,000 back at the end of 60 months, you will earn 3,149.49 in interest, so at the end, you'll have the car and 33,149.49.

If you choose to secure the loan with your 30,000 cash, borrow 30,000 to pay for the car, you'll pay 3,968.22 in interest. Your 30,000 will grow by 6,629.90, so at the end of the term, you'll have the car and 36,629.90. However, the car will have cost you the additional interest expense, so the net difference is 6,629.90 - 3,968.22 = 2,661.68. (This works because you're earning interest on an increasing base, while you're paying interest on a decreasing base!)

Additionally, you'll have the 30,000 at all times, so if you wish to pay off the car early, you can do so. Also, the lending institution may be willing to release part of the money as the outstanding principal gets reduced.

I'm not saying that this is the best idea in the world, but for me, the discipline it would take to get the money together in the first place would be difficult enough -- I'm not sure I'd be able to do it all over again. My example provides a way to force you to protect the money you've accumulated without any financial detriment.

nyccarguy

isellhondas, I've been trying to get your email address from your profile, but everytime I click on your profile (or anybody's for that matter), my internet explorer crashes and I've got to reboot, so I'll just post here on the thread.

I'm interested in picking up a brand new 2001 Prelude SH (a model which has been discontinued, but there still are some laying around for those of you who are unfamiliar). I emailed a local dealer who I've been communicating back and forth with. He's gone through the trouble to locate the car I'm interested in. The car has an MSRP of $26,100. He's offering to sell it to me for around $23,800 which is invoice. The guy obviously knows I want this car (because I contacted him first and asked him to do a locate). If you were to go through a similar situation, would you take $21,500 for the car (it is after all a 2001 which has been sitting on another dealer's lot for at least 6 months)? What about the rest of you? Thanks in advance for your help!

pohsyb

That does seem to work out nice, but if we're keeping the same time frame ( 60 months ) the monthly cost goes up to 566 instead of 500

Also whenever I get a new car my insurance rate will undoubtedly jump a few notches, so I may not be able to save as much....definately worth thinking about though if the percentages were a little better. Thanks for the numbers!

agt_cooper

Yes, your cash flow is affected to the tune of 66.14 per month by borrowing (66.14 x 60 = 3968.22, the interest figure mentioned above). However, if you could swing it, there is a positive return at the end.

Again, I'm not trying to tell you what to do, rather throwing options out on the table. I just wish I was in your position of having to make such a decision!!!

Good luck in whatever you choose to do!!

suvshopper4

The tax men (Fed and State) take a chunk of the interest earned.
The loan interest could be deductible if it is a home equity loan.
Also check to see if you could really earn that interest rate above without tying the money up in a CD (penalty for early withdrawal).

agt_cooper

Ooooopppsssss,

I knew this looked too good to be true....

It would actually cost you 487.81 to keep you cash and borrow the money secured by you're savings. Apparently, my spreadsheet was turning water into wine!!! That's the trouble with spreadsheets, they're only as good as the nut behind the wheel!!

So, this is not such an attractive option if you have the discipline to save after paying cash for the vehicle....

I'll crawl back into my shell now......

raybear

You really need to post that question on the "Inconsiderate Buyers" thread.

pohsyb

I'm not in a position to do this yet, I'm still working towards it (prolly 1-2 years away).

abtseller

for a car and pay less than invoice for it. The math won't work. We can't even DT for a demo and get it at a discount.

Let me get this straight, you want a rare and hard to find car that has been discontinued, and you want your local dealer to trade for it, and you want him to sell it for under invoice?

Did something fall off a bookshelf onto your head?



Ed

nyccarguy

lol...Good One about the bookshelf!

Raybear: I haven't gone back to him with a counter offer yet becauae I wanted to pose the question to some of you gentelmen on the thread who's advice I find to be quite helpful, so I really don't consider myself an "Inconsiderate Buyer."

abtseller: That's why I asked you guys first.

I figured that the Invoice would be his best price, so I'm happy with that. It doesn't hurt to ask the thread though does it?

Thank you again for your help and your timely responses.

raybear

Invoice is just fine.

abtseller

don't take his head off if he needs a couple of hundred to pay drivers (depending on distance, etc.)

Thanks for putting up with the warped sense of humor, its been one of those days.



Ed

nyccarguy

I know you were just kidding, it has been one of those days for me too. I'd never rip the guy's head off if he wants to flatbed the car, but if it is within a 3 or 4 hour drive from here, then I'll go get the damn thing myself.

Warped Sense Of Humor...Is there any other kind?

nyccarguy

It has been discontinued because sales of the Prelude have been so poor. I wish they still made 'em, I'd buy an '02 instead of a leftover '01!

silk123

I just purchased a 2002 Toyota Sequoia (SR5, V8, 4X4, silver metalic) in March, but due to family circumstances I am forced to sell this vehicle which I admire very much. Does anyone know where I would go to sell this vehicle online.

rroyce10

..... A good place to start would be Ebay .. not knowing the miles on this little puppy, I can only tell you that they are doing "around" $34 at the auctions with 6/8/10k --- So pick your retail figure from there.

I'm guessing a fair figure might be $36,900.

Good luck ...

Terry.

isellhondas

Well, a couple of the other guys already answered your question. I'll temper what would have been my response...

But, WHY would a dealer take the time to locate a car, send a driver (and pay that driver) to get the car only to lose 2000.00???

So, ah..yeah..if they will sell it for invoice, you ought to buy it. I see a future collectable car too down the road maybe.

Heck...you should pay 2000.00 OVER invoice!!

nyccarguy

I did take the others advice to heart and am willing to pay invoice for the car. You're absolutely correct. I was unaware of how it worked when a dealer swap was involved. Thanks again for getting back to me. Again, I was just asking you guys first as to not be percieved as Inconsiderate by the dealer himself. If he gets me the car I want, then I'll also give him excellents (or whatever Hondas top score is) on the survey. You all have taught me well!

Thank you again!

nyccarguy

Do I need to give this guy a deposit in order for him to locate a car for me?

raybear

That's standard procedure, but I thought he located it already. I assume you mean for him to get the car for you.

nyccarguy

From his emails, it sounded as if he had already located the car for me. I know that in order for him to actually get the car for me he'd need a deposit. I just got an email from him saying that he needs a deposit to locate the car for me. It just doesn't sound right.

Thanks again for your quick response!