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Mostly, I look at the invoice (throw that out the window with "employee pricing" schemes), see how well the model is selling in my 'burg, look at what they're advertised for in the dealer newspaper ads, and then come up with a price to offer. If a couple of dealers refuse my offer outright, then I know I'm not close and deed to do more homework to see what I did wrong. If they come back with an offer that's not within a few hundred, I know they're not close and it's time to move to a different dealer. Usually if we're within a couple hundred, I offer to split the difference and we all walk away happy.
Do I leave a hundred or two on the table? Maybe! Maybe not! It's not worth my time nor my energy to get into a protracted negotiation session for $100. I figure a fair price is a fair price on both sides of the desk.
My deals take all of maybe 10-15 minutes. If they take much more than that, I'm not hanging around. I thank them for their time and leave.
Also, what is the best way to go about finding a reasonable price to offer for a car? Should i go by the TMV price and offer a few hundred less?
TMV is a price that may be dead on, a few hudred more or a few hudred less than what you can buy any car for. It's a guide. You can offer what you want. But, most of the time, TMV will be the price you can reasonably expect to make a deal for. Depending on whether the dealer has much in the way of stock, whether they are selling your particular model at a good clip, color, popular/not popular will determine whether you can buy at, above or below that price. Is TMV reasonable? Usually, yes...but the factors above also enter into the equation.
Good luck.
But somehow I don't think they would want my purple baby left on the lot anyway. Anyone who would be interested in taking it off their hands would also want the special pricing, right? :shades:
LOL - I was thinking the same thing. The expectation is that even if the dealer could give the car away they must be making some money on it - might as well ask for a cut of it.
In the case of GM, Ford and Chryslers' Employee pricing, I probably wouldn't even try for anything more since I already know it's the lowest price the car can be sold for, anywhere....anytime.
I'm sure some will try, though. Fact is, any dealer you go to will have the same price.
That just makes it easier to pick the dealer/sales person you like the best, as opposed to the one with the best price.
That said, it's going to be tough for the Big 3 to go to any different pricing model now. Sales will drop like a stone if they do. My guess is this is going to change the way Detroit and their dealers sell their cars from this point forward. No negotiations on any car. Plus, cars will be more realistically priced as opposed to having inflated stickers to conpensate.
I believe the flood gates have been opened.
At least, that's my hope.
How much of the doc fee (which I know is considered mandatory, but set by the dealer) is really profit? I wonder because I had a dealer tell me (as part of the "we aren't making any money" story) that only about 30% of their $299 doc fee is profit, with the rest being the actual costs involved in handling all the paperwork. I'm in North Carolina, if that makes any difference.
I ask because so many "prices paid" forums on here operate on the assumption that buyers can "negotiate into the doc fee" even if it's a different line on the order that gets adjusted. I'd appreciate your feedback so I can work from a more informed standpoint. Thanx!
--Ron
I want another $100... make it up on the next guy..
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One way would be: The profit portion is that amount of the doc fee that exceeds the actual cost (with all applicable payroll taxes, interest and overhead) of handling the transaction, paying fees for registration and title, paying the runner to go to the insurance company and the registry, etc. etc. But then who could account for costs like that, and why would they?
The right way is to understand that the dealership is going to make their necessary profit on the deals, or they are going out of business. Their profit originates from all of the money paid in all transactions (vehicles, all fees, back-end etc.), from which all expenses of the business are deducted. Whatever is left is their profit.
Now - pay close attention: For this discussion let's say a dealer needs to make $500 per unit to survive. What difference does it make whether they make that $500 from the price of the vehicle alone, or if they make some of it on the doc fee? The total is the same in either case.
But am curious as to why the "surprises" in car sales usually occur within the finance department.
When I chat with a salesperson and we arrive at what seems to be reasonable, it is extremely unpleasant to then have the "finance" folks try to pack the invoice or spring last minute surprises, such as a document fee or whatever. Just be upfront about it at the beginning.
And one other question....who really determines the "long term goals" at a dealer? The finance group (which I suspect thinks just like Wall Street brokers), the owner, the manufacturer the dealer gets their product from?
A few years ago we had a special area with new cars sale tagged. The prices were aggressive and we were busy.
Well, we messed up, big time and mis-marked a Civic. It was an EX automatic and we put a tag for an LX 5 speed in the window.
If sold, it would have resulted in something like a 2000.00 loss.
Naturally a customer I had walked on a different car the week before spotted the mis marked car with his eagle eyes.
My Sales Manager took a deep gulp and told me to honor the price.
It still wasn't good enough for my greedy customer. He offered less.
I told him that that price was good NOW. If he left, I was going to change the tag to reflect the price it should have been.
Well, guess what? He didn't believe me and he left. I'm sure he spent a frantic four hours driving from dealer to dealer trying to beat that number.
He did come back fours later. I watch with amusement as he leaped from his car and almost ran to that Civic to see if I had changed that tag!
One of my happier days at work!
Needless to say, neither the Used Car Manager or General Manager were very happy about taking a HUGE bath on that unit, but they honored the price on the windshield. Mistakes do happen, but with a reputable company, they'll err on the side of the customer more times than not.
Ken
As a buyer, the easiet thing is to compute and out-the-door (OTD) price you plan to offer and see if the dealer will accept it.
The OTD price includes everything, including the sales tax, license tag, title fee, etc. If you don't feel like including a Doc fee in your OTD price, then leave it out.
If they accept your offer, then you got a new car. If they don't accept it, then you gotta come up with some more money or go somewhere else.
Yeah, bobst's key story is a legend around here. :P
If you live in a place with lots of dealers close by then this method should work. I can't imagine you would run out of dealers before your offer was accepted.
I got lucky with my car. The car with the exact options I wanted was at the dealership closest to me - and there are only two Mazda dealerships within about 40 miles. Plus, they had a set price for military people that was lower than what I was willing to pay.
Didn't our moderator ask to hold off the sleasy stories? So while I have several I will refrain - the lesson learned was not to let ones' emotions take control during the sale!
I keep waiting...TEN YEARS and I still haven't had a customer ask me for more keys than the three that come with the car.
I'ld like to ask why you need that many but I know better.
You're not that old...It's funny, when I take trade in from seniors, they almost always come up with handfuls of spare keys and I always wonder why.
I took in a Buick once from a couple in their late seventies that came with at least SIX spare keys!
First thing I do when I get new wheels is get extra keys. Never had a chipped key yet, so that makes it cheap & easy.
One or both originals go in a special box in the basement which holds, you guessed it, important keys.
#2 goes on my keychain.
#3 goes on the mrs.' keychain.
#4 goes into my drawer at work. Some day I'll have to run home at the 59th minute and won't be able to find my keys... lotsa big magnets, there's always people's keys and wallets lying around -- Keys can be magnetic, and credit cards can get wiped out.
#5 hangs on the hook upstairs and goes to one of the guys I go canoeing with, in case I lose my key in the water.
And sometimes #6 goes to the guy from the canoe livery who drives my car to the takeout, then puts the key under the floor mat and locks the car.
Maybe a little overkill, but it does make some sense, no?
-Mathias
Maybe when we're in our late seventies we'll all have poorer memories and will understand why they wanted so many keys around if they couldn't remember where the others were -- but we'll all have forgotten that we cared. They probably had keys for the kids in case they needed to use the cars and maybe a neighbor or two.
I know when I trade in my cars the dealer never wants all the keys. He says it makes people nervous when a keyring has lots of spare keys on it rather than two. We usually have four, one for wife, two for me, and a spare.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
First question is why is there MSRP 2000 more than most internet sites MSRP. Second can she go back and renogiate the price even though I suppose they dont have to, but do some dealers do this? Third is there a grace period, like 3 days for instant that you can return the car, in Missouri btw.
I told her to go back Monday and see if they can rework the cost. She purchased a car from the same dealer before 4 years ago and they was really concerned about a survey Hundai does. This time they want her to give them the survey to fill out in exchange for some free oil changes ect ect. I told her if all else fails to let them know she will be filling out the survey honestly :P.
God I hope they do the right thing, my life is misearble now and I feel bad for her...
As for the other question about re-negotiating the deal, if she's already signed paperwork and taken delivery of the truck, you may very well be out of luck. If the dealer is willing to work with you, you'll be lucky, but quite honestly, she's an adult and made her decision and will need to learn to live with the consequenses, both good and bad of those decisions.
Lastly, you're not going to get an accurate TMV or MSRP price without putting in all of the pertinent information. Maybe taking a minute or two to catch your breath will help with getting the correct information.
Hope this helps.
Ken
I'll leave the "doodads" up to you .....
Terry.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Terry.
For the sake of the household im not going to tell her its all crap, she's hard to live with as it is :P. I told her to go back and ask about the pin striping because its not on the car, which she wouldnt want anyways. They also forgot to add the customer loyalty rebate, they wrote it down but never subtracted it from the cost, and they use the wrong figure to begin with the figure they used was even higher than the acutualy dealers msrp. She had a new guy selling the car that was unsure of what he was doing and it was near closing time. Hopefully she can atleast get $900 off the price with the rebate and pinstriping. I mean even with that they made good profit off her :sick: .
Hopefully they will do the right thing, and next time she better inform me before making a purchase like that!
obviously they missed the fact the pinstriping was not installed during their inspection (which has to be part of the inspection...all options listed are installed)... so have them prove to you they did the fabric protection / scotch-guarding!
i'd speak with someone in a position to say"yes, we'll do the right thing"... not a non-decision maker. i'd be polite and firm and positive, know what i mean?
Good luck, and next time do the details to protect yourself. There's a reason they don't say "seller beware."
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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Terry.
Also, I have a 03 Murano I want to trade in, the trade in value is currently 22,977 and the pay off quote is 27,790 (old trade in debt of a 01 altima was buried on the loan).
I want to get a 11k used car (plus the murano debt) to bring my payments down by $200/month.
Should I wait for murano negative equity to go down some more (goes down about $400/month) or trade in now to save $200 a month?
I have had the car for 2 years already on a 5 year balloon finance and I pay a $519/month car payment.
Thanks.
Will Honda dealers really sell an Accord this cheap (plus taxes and fees of course)?
Thanks
So, in about another year, you should be close to "even" on your vehicle. And, you should still be in warranty, right?
Just my .02... Mark
..... i think what Terry was saying is, in the end, the car is worth what its worth... it shouldn't really effect the bottom transaction. Each car has a value, maybe to make it easier for you to follow, concentrate on each of those values separately. New car is $xx,xxx, trade in is $xx,xxx. The important figure you'll be looking for is "the difference", the delta between the old and the new...
For example, If I were to trade in my old 2003 "MO"(with it's nega. equity) for a new 2005 Ford Escape (with employee discount), my monthly payment (car/insurance) will drop by $175. So I'll have a new car, I'll get out of that balloon finance, which I feel is just like a lease, which I don't like.
The MO only has about 3 months left of bumper to bumper warranty.
What do you guys think?
If you have a trade go over to the Real World Trade-in Value board and put in ALL the details shown at the top of the page, and Terry will tell you what the trade is worth. Simple math does the rest.
Good luck.
Did someone offer you the $22,977 for your Murano or is that a number you saw in KBB or Edmunds pricing? I have a feeling your Murano may not pull that much but I'm not the expert.
Terry in the "Real World Trade-In Values" thread will give your a realistic number to work with.
I hope your situation works out for you.
Mark :surprise: