I recently saw an article in a newspaper stating that the average car dealership nets app. $600,000 a year in profit. Now the article did not define "average dealership", but I assume one with both new and used car sales, service, ect. and under private ownership as opposed to the publically held auto dealers. So if there are any onwers of a dealership here and if the question is not too personal, is this true?
It seems that if the potential for profit is so great, that many more people would be trying to enter the dealership business. I understand that the amount of capital needed is great, therefore increasing the risk involved and limiting the number of potential owners. And I assume that the manufactures place a limit on the number of dealers in any given market so as not to flood the market and reduce their own selling price on the cars they make.
I worked for a short period of time selling cars for a private dealership and ended up leaving because I felt that I wasn't using my time productively. Many hours were spent with too many salespeople on the lot and too few customers. When it was busy, Firday evening, Saturday, nice weather days, ect., it was more enjoyable. I guess from the owners standpoint, at $6/hour pay guaranteed but subtracted from any commissions, it was less costly than being understaffed when competing with other dealers. I would rather have been an independent sales contractor under contract and just come in when the dealer was busy and not taken the minimum wage. But then I wouldn't have actually been an employee of the dealer and they would have been limited by my contract in what I did for them.
All of the dealers we have gone to have accepted our personal checks without a problem. I can't recall them checking our credit rating, but if they wanted to I would certainly let them.
Of course, we live in the Washington DC suburbs where people are friendly and trusting.
but I'm sure that's a gross profit number, if it's a true average.
Our dealership in Wyoming, selling 70-80 units a month, averaged $150,000 a year (net). Most was rolled right back into the dealership for improvements and equipment.
That is, of course, after all salaries are paid, including the owner's.
As my boss said, we're not too worried about the checks written for $45,000 -- those are always good. It's the checks written for $500 that scare us.
We'll do credit checks when someone pays with a personal check (if the banks are closed and we can't verify funds)or tells us they have off site financing but no draft yet, if only to assure ourselves that, should the check bounce or the OSF fall through, we've still got a deal and can still spot deliver them. In those cases, there are some people who don't want their credit pulled, which I understand, but then they have to wait to take the car until funds are drawn. Cover your bum, right? Much better to do it that way than to get a car back with 1500 miles on it after a month when their independent financing falls through.
I have never pulled credit (except my dad's) without two pieces of written authorization. The fines for that are serious, plus I'd think you'd get some very unhappy customers coming back around.
And regarding driver's license for a test drive -- Where I work, the management company's view on accidents is that, if the keys to the car are checked out in your name, the car is your responsibility. Unless you have proof of someone else driving the vehicle, any damage is up to the sales to repair. So we copy licenses and insurance, and on the copy write down the VIN, date, time, and approving manager. (Yes, our managers have to approve our test drives and showing of vehicles. Very invasive, don't like it too much, think my dealership is getting a little wacked out due to a new GSM who's never sold cars but has all kinds of IDEAS about how it should be done.) Then we pull the cars off the lot (very busy street in front of us and lots of salespeople and customers coming and going on the lot) and trade drivers about half a mile away. Whew-- almost seems like too much work.
If a car being test driven is involved in an accident, what happens? Is the test driver's insurance covering the cost of repairs? Or is the dealership's insurance? Maybe this is a question I should ask locally, too.
The customer is responsible - I can't see how it could be any other way.
If the salesman wrecks the car, the dealership eats it, or the salesman takes care of it. I had a minor fender bender in 1994 on a vehicle I used as a demo (used truck). All of our demos were written in contract as a dealership rental, so my insurance covered it.
Depends on who's driving and who's at fault. Customer driving and customer at fault=customer's insurance. Other permutations have other results.
About four months ago the Ford dealership up the street let a Mustang out on a test drive on a Saturday night with two customers and a salesperson, and the customer ended up losing control and going off the highway, rolling 30 feet down into the ditch. Various degrees of injury all the way around, from what I understand the salesperson was in the back seat and sustained a spinal inujury.
A story like that comes down from the store three dealerships away, and you're sure to get everything you can before a test drive. Plus one of my old managers used to sell cars and was kidnapped and held for 3 hours before they threw him out (somewhere around Lubbock, if I recall) and took the car. I worked for him at a bar. He's been out of the car biz since that night. Go figure, right?
was beat up and robbed. He was on a test drive with a customer, going along, when the customer (another young guy) slapped him in the throat with a backhand. The guy was slowing to a stop in a parking lot at the time (our guy had asked him to go to the K-Mart lot for a proper walk-around.
The guy beat the heck out of him, took his wallet (for a whole $17!!) and took the car, leaving teh guy in the parking lot.
The car was recovered and the guy was caught a few days later.
I thought the dealer's insurance would cover the cost of repairs and liability in case of an accident involving a test drive. Just as in the case of a rental car.
Like I wasn't paranoid enough before going on a test drive...
...the rental car may have insurance but if you are driving it and are at fault, their insurance company goes after your own. AFAIK, any car you are driving, your insurance covers it.
The only time a copy of my license has been taken has been when they were letting me take the car on my own. If a salesperson is riding along, they just look at it to ensure it's valid.
Here, they take a copy AND the salesmen goes with you.
But, just because you have driver's license doesn't mean you have insurance. If you have a license, and don't have a car, you don't have insurance. For example, a lot of my friends that work in Manhattan don't have cars. They do rent cars for weekend get-aways.
That car rental companies only covers the deductible. The accident would still be filed on your insurance record, possibly causing your rates to go up.
From what I understand of it, anyway.
If you get into an accident in a Dealership's car, why shouldn't you pay for it? If you borrow a buddies car, and wreck it, and you are at fault, the insurance co. will come after you, or your buddy might..
It happens, and unless it's gross negligence on the customer's part, it should be covered by the dealership's insurance. I can see the other side of the argument, too, but if I have to bear the responsibility for that $25k car I'm test driving, I need to be told so and I need to be offered a chance to buy insurance for the test drive. And without some coverage, I probably won't drive it, then. Some things are just so awful or expensive that even a small risk is too great. That's why I always buy the rental car insurance if I don't have my own coverage. I understand it's a bad deal, but I can't afford to be without it. I haven't wrecked a car yet, borrowed or not. Still, I wouldn't borrow a friend's car unless it's insured or I can afford to pay him if I wreck it.
All this speculation is fairly idle... where are the pros who can tell us what the deal really is? -Mathias
what difference does it make who's car your driving - you wrecked it! It's your fault, pay the bill.
The dealership factor is not a factor at all.
If the wreck was someone else's (the other driver) fault, then their insurance covers it, so who cares?
When you drive a vehicle on a test drive, whether it's down the block or overnight, a "bailment" agreement is made between you and the person who owns the car. The bailment can be either written or not, but the simple fact that you don't yet own the car but are driving it, and the fact that you know you don't own the car, makes you assume bailment responsibility.
If you wreck it, place too many miles on it, used it to move your sister with and scratch it up - whatever - you're reponsible.
When a smiling salesmen asks for a copy of my license before going on a test drive and says it is for insurance purposes, I, perhaps naively, have blithely assumed that if something happened during the test drive, their insurance would pick it up.
When I have driven vans for the school, I have been told that I am covered under the school's insurance, and not my own.
I would have appreciated it if the dealerships had told me that should anything happen, the responsibility would be mine and my insurance would have to cover it.
Now, if they ask for my license, why not ask for a copy of my insurance, to make sure I am covered?
A state with no fault insurance. You are testdriving the Belchfire 2003 and you are rear ended by a woman in 1973 Bonneville while you are stopped at a red light.
Prior to the accident, you see the woman reaching around to "parent" the three kids jumping around in the back seat sans seat belts.
Purchase and paid for 2003 ML350 on 12/21 and was told we would have car in 2-3 days. Car got delayed for reasons the dealership couldn't really explain. Because of the delay and broken promises we no longer are dealing with the sales person but with the sales manager. He offer to install a dvd (headrest) system at cost ($1850)for us and if we would also like we could get Motorola v60 phone installed at cost also. We said we would take the dvd system and let him know about the phone. Car was suppose to be ready yesterday and it wasn't. When we called today the sales person & sales manager were out for the day. We went to the dealership to speak with the general manager and he knew of our situation but thought that we had taken delivery of the vehicle already.
GM said that what has happened is unacceptable since we are repeat customers and wants to do something for us like take money off the deal.
We are thinking of doing 1 of 2 things. Ask for our money back or 2 ask for dvd system & phone for free.
"You're a licensed adult and you have a wreck, what difference does it make who's car your driving - you wrecked it! It's your fault, pay the bill."
That's baloney. Anytime there's a chance of trashing $20k+, I need to have insurance. I don't have that kind of money lying around. I could pay it, of course, but it'd make a severe dent in my finances. How the heck am I supposed to insure myself against wrecking a car during a test drive? What if I get cut off by some yahoo, swerve and then decide to hit a telephone pole rather than a pedestrian? I haven't done anything wrong, but I'm still on the hook... sort of like TB described.
"Where's the question?? This is silly."
You can debate this reasonably, or be condescending, and discuss it with whoever's left.
Like I said in my first post, I can see the other side of the argument. But upon reflection, my opinion is as stated. Anyone puts me in a situation where I might incur a substantial loss, they need to tell me what the risk is and how I may mitigate it. Test drove a Sienna right to the gas station a while back 'cuz it was on empty. Now what's that??? I'm driving, the salesman is filling 'er up, am I acting as an "agent" of the business? If it's about legalities, nothing is ever obvious... wouldn't need lawyers if it were. God forbid.
If you have com/collision, unless you've got it through an SR-22 (bad news) and only minimum coverages apply, then you're covered when you're on a test drive, and it most states, a rental car.
My point of order was addressing the responsibility, not the insurance coverage. You stated that if you were on a test drive and had an accident, you'd expect the dealer to pick up the tab, and that's wrong. If it's your fault, let your insurance handle it, but the dealership shouldn't be out any money because you made a mistake.
Sure, you're on the hook if you wreck the car, just like if it was your car. My point is that it doesn't matter who owns the car when you're driving it.
after watching the Giants collapse, so possibly this isn't the best time to post.
I think we, as consumers, need to know explicitly from the dealer before taking a test drive, the full ramifications of taking the drive. I can not honestly remember any dealer telling me, "Sir, you do realize that you are liable for any damage to the vehicle."
Again, when you couple the lack of such a statement, with the dealer asking for a copy of your driver's license for "insurance purposes" it is very easy for a consumer to get the (possibly) mistaken impression that they (and their insurance) will be not liable for damage to the car.
And again, there have been instances when even though I am the driver, my employer has told me I am covered under their insurance. So such a concept is not altogether foreign.
There is also the possibility that state laws, which very possibly could differ, also affect this. I have read that in NY state it is possible to not only sue the driver, but also the owner of the vehicle in question.
to beat the Eagles and silence some of these Philly loudmouths who have been dogging every team in the NFL. The last time I checked, the Eagles only WENT to the Superbowl once and lost!
My karaoke buddy here in PA, originally from Long island, is a hard core Giants fan - I wanted te Giants to win so they could whup up on the Eagles. Bummer. I dont like Bill Parcells, but maybe he'll bring the Cowboys around.
"Sure, you're on the hook if you wreck the car, just like if it was your car."
No kidding. If it was my car, the maximum damage I could do to it is about $1500.
Any damage to other property/cars is covered by my liability insurance -- of which I carry LOTS.
When I test drove the $23k Sienna, I didn't have collision insurance on my car (it's a beater -- see above). I didn't think I was on the hook for the car if I wrecked it. I still don't think so... but I don't know. You can be sure I'll ask before the next test drive.
And no, it's not a silly question or a cut-and-dried issue at all. I doubt we'd be debating it if it was.. then again... this IS the internet....
Who knows, maybe I DO have collison coverage, because my wife does on her car...??
I take possession of someones property and damage it.
BUT I'M NOT RESPONSIBLE. NO ONE TOLD ME. IT'S NOT MY FAULT. HIS INSURANCE SHOULD COVER IT, NOT MINE. (Like his insurance doesn't cost him anything.)
The above is a lot of what is wrong with the USofA.
You wreck a test drive car, and OF COURSE IT WILL GET INTO YOUR LIABILITY. What in heck do you thing the liability coverage covers?
Collision covers YOUR CAR.
You are LIABLE when you are test driving, so your LIABIBITY coverage is what pays!
Copying your license is only getting an ID. They want it to help run you down if you wreck the car and escape on foot. And then get into your insurance.
Of course, all this assumes you have some insurance. If not, you are free as a bird, unless you have other assets and they want to come after them. If not, then this is the case where their insurance comes in - the reason they carry insurance.
"HIS INSURANCE SHOULD COVER IT, NOT MINE. (Like his insurance doesn't cost him anything.) The above is a lot of what is wrong with the USofA."
I think you're out of line.
Nobody said the dealer should be stuck with any damage. I said that if the situation is as described, then I need to be told, as I take the keys: "You wreck it you bought it." It costs $10-15 to insure a rental car for a day. What could it cost to buy "test-drive insurance"?
I never take the wheel of anyone's car unless it's insured or I'm insured or it's worth so little I could replace it out of my own pocket.
If I had a business that basically required me to hand any yahoo that walks through the door a car to drive around for awhile, I'd certainly get them all insured. And I *believe* but don't know that that's what dealer plates are for.
"You wreck a test drive car, and OF COURSE IT WILL GET INTO YOUR LIABILITY. What in heck do you thing [sic] the liability coverage covers?"
I think it covers damage I do to other people's property. It does not cover damage to other people's cars, unless they're parked when I hit them. That's how it works here in MI under no-fault. It does not cover damage to a rental car that I wrap around a tree. I don't see how it covers damage to ANY car I'm driving.
If I have collision, it covers damage to my car, to a rental that I am driving, and to any borrowed car that I am legally driving.
I'm still waiting for someone who *knows for sure* how this all works to chime in. And I still think the dealer should carry insurance to cover for test-drive accidents. I still don't see how that's a problem, morally wrong, or otherwise bad for God and Country.
Anybody who wants to sell cars here in MI needs to have at least two dealer plates, it's a requirement. And those insure anybody who drives the merchandise, including customers. I think.
Somebody's gotta know for sure. We need a fact check in aisle six, please?
The cars have to be insured, there is a bank loaning the dealership money for the car.
And B, if someone caused an accident test driving a car and hurt or killed someone, who do you think the injured parties lawyer is going to go after, just you?
That's not to say they wouldn't go after you as well if something happened, but in reality, a dealer has to have some sort of insurance or be "self insured"
...... You break it, you bought it, ever hear that one.?
If an accident occurs during the test drive or an overnight, the driver is paying - not the dealer .. right now with the high cost of insurance, most dealers have a $1,000+ deductible or more. Now a little scratch here or there I might let pass, but do $2,5 worth of damage to a Honda or a Caddy and I have a problem with getting it fixed and selling it.
The driver of any vehicle pays for their own damage, why would there be any difference with a dealers vehicle ..?
We don't do this as a rule, yet. We had someone "buy" three cars from us last month using a homemade cashier's check. Its not the personal checks for $35-40K that I worry about, but the $60K bank checks that you have to watch for now.
The month before, it was a $90K two party cashier's check from a well known paper company that was fake.
I just passed my PA State Appraiser/Adjuster License Test (woohoo - that and a dollar will buy me a Coke), but it was 90% insurance info and only 10% car info.
Liability DOES NOT cover the car you are driving. It covers the car you hit and any property or human damage you do, up to a certain limit (usually a state standard).
Even though you're "liable" it's your comprehensive portion of the policy that covers you if you wreck a demo or rental.
The dealer's insurance would take care of the dealer, then they would use the information on you (from your DL) to "subjugate" the claim. That means that the insurance company would try to collect form you (or your insurer).
If you do not have any insurance, they could (not saying they would) go after you personally. That is, they could sue you, and would probably win.
but there is no guessing in this matter. If you have a wreck, the cop asks you for YOUR insurance info because YOU were driving. The only involvement by the dealer is to be on the receiving end of the claim.
If you don't have insurance, then you're right on - many times, to prevent this with people where I had a question as to whether I thought they had insurance or current insurance, I'd get all the info from their trade. I'll get the driver's license, insurance and registration - we need all that to do a deal, anyway.
I've handled car deals differently from day one. I consult with folks and discuss their needs (like a salesman should) instead of playing tag all over the lot. I hate it when I see a salesman, meet someone, then jump in a car and take off. Unless you just drove one exactly like, you're not familiar with the controls and you don't even know/remember the salesman's name.
"The driver of any vehicle pays for their own damage, why would there be any difference with a dealers vehicle ..?"
Cuz if you drive my car and wreck it, you just totalled a $1000 vehicle and I'd expect you to pay me.
And if you drove my wife's car and wrecked it you totalled a $10,000 vehicle and HER insurance would cover it. And I'd expect you to pay me the deductible.
So if I take a dealer's $20k car out they don't have collision/comprehensive on it? Oy vey!
Now, to be on the hook for a $1k deductible; that's a risk I would take in a heartbeat... it's not like I have ever wrecked a car yet in the first place. But to put myself in a situation where I might be out 10, 20 grand, that's serious business.
Y'all excuse me while I call my insurance carrier and see if my wife's policy covers me on rentals....
If you don't have full coverage, the dealer's insurance will pay, and you will be asked for the deductible. If you don't pay the deductable, the dealer's lawyer will probably ask you for it in a courtroom.
If you're not at fault, the driver of the car that is at fault will have to pay, through their insurance, or their appearance in a courtroom.
Also, most dealers have ridiculously high deductibles. If I wreck a demo, I am personally responsible for the $2500 decuctible.
if I wreck your wife's $10,000 car, your insurance company doesn't even get involved and my insurance takes the claim. Your deductible isn't involved, because I take car of the claim.
If it didn't work that way, then your insurance would go up because I had a wreck - that's not fair to you, or the way insurance regulations work.
BTW, why was I driving your wife's car? My wife would beat me, regardless of my intent.
At Lithia Auto Group, the manager's rides (demos) had $5,000 deductibles. This was to encourage you to use your own insurance.
The cars were leased to us (with no payment, but there was a 90 day lease contract), so I did "own" the car for insurance purposes.
If my buddy wrecks my car and has no insurance, at least in the state of OR, my insurance goes up. Unless they get ALL the money from my buddy. Reason being that there was still a payout, and my insurance co. has to make the money back somehow. Would you be willing to allow your rates to double because your buddy refused to pay for the car after he wrecked it? I wouldn't... That's why I don't loan my cars out.. much easier that way.
.... Still a little blurry eyed -- my insurance co. NEVER even gets a call ...!
If someone tests drive a vehicle .. and if an accident occurs, the driver gets tagged with the infraction and the damage is covered by his/her insurance co - not mine.
I don't even bother to call my insurance co, cuz they all keep track of a "potential" high risk customer with accident reports .. we had 10 last year for a total of $16,329 of damage .. the customer was driving and the customer paid.
I checked, and a used car dealer told me that in the state of NJ, the dealer plates and dealer insurance cover the vehicle while it is being test driven. Maybe we should ask what the deductible is, and get it in writing, before taking the test drive?
Again, just because you have a driver's license doesn't mean you have automobile insurance.
I know many people that have a license, for identification purposes only, and do not own cars.
Also, every employer I have worked for has told me that when I am driving on company business, whether it is my car, or theirs, that I am covered under their insurance policy.
...it may depend on the state. I wouldn't be suprised that the dealer carries insurance to cover their vehicles on test drives in case you do not have any or not enough insurance. I also wouldn't be suprised to find that insurance company chasing yours (or you) for reimbursement should you be at fault.
Her in MA, you are required to carry some insurance for damage to someone else's property. I wonder if that would cover the dealer's vehicle?
I know that when I was in an accident with my parent's vehicle, my insurance took care of everything. My parent's company did not have to be involved at all.
In the case of driving a company car, your company usually provides the insurance as you are driving their vehicle for their benefit. But be careful when driving your own vehicle on company business. Unless you tell your insurance company you do so they may deny you coverage should anything happen or at a minimum will chase down your company's insurer for reimbursement.
In any case, the points will show up on your license if you are at fault.
Wow, I go away for a couple days and this topic gets busy.
I would love to have another Quest, but I doubt that's gonna happen. I'm pretty happy driving my Suburban, its big, powerful, and people get the heck out of my way. Of course big has a downside too......its that horrible sucking feeling on my checkbook!!
Glad to see you are still around, hope you had a great holiday season.
Yeah, I heard that, but I don't want to buy anything new or even newer than my Suburban. I have found the greatest feeling in the world is no car payments. I paid $5000 for my 1990 Suburban 4X4 the end of October and haven't had a car payment since. Sure, its a gas hog and has its occational repair, but it sure beats a $400/mo car payment.
Comments
It seems that if the potential for profit is so great, that many more people would be trying to enter the dealership business. I understand that the amount of capital needed is great, therefore increasing the risk involved and limiting the number of potential owners. And I assume that the manufactures place a limit on the number of dealers in any given market so as not to flood the market and reduce their own selling price on the cars they make.
I worked for a short period of time selling cars for a private dealership and ended up leaving because I felt that I wasn't using my time productively. Many hours were spent with too many salespeople on the lot and too few customers. When it was busy, Firday evening, Saturday, nice weather days, ect., it was more enjoyable. I guess from the owners standpoint, at $6/hour pay guaranteed but subtracted from any commissions, it was less costly than being understaffed when competing with other dealers. I would rather have been an independent sales contractor under contract and just come in when the dealer was busy and not taken the minimum wage. But then I wouldn't have actually been an employee of the dealer and they would have been limited by my contract in what I did for them.
Of course, we live in the Washington DC suburbs where people are friendly and trusting.
Our dealership in Wyoming, selling 70-80 units a month, averaged $150,000 a year (net). Most was rolled right back into the dealership for improvements and equipment.
That is, of course, after all salaries are paid, including the owner's.
We'll do credit checks when someone pays with a personal check (if the banks are closed and we can't verify funds)or tells us they have off site financing but no draft yet, if only to assure ourselves that, should the check bounce or the OSF fall through, we've still got a deal and can still spot deliver them. In those cases, there are some people who don't want their credit pulled, which I understand, but then they have to wait to take the car until funds are drawn. Cover your bum, right? Much better to do it that way than to get a car back with 1500 miles on it after a month when their independent financing falls through.
I have never pulled credit (except my dad's) without two pieces of written authorization. The fines for that are serious, plus I'd think you'd get some very unhappy customers coming back around.
And regarding driver's license for a test drive --
Where I work, the management company's view on accidents is that, if the keys to the car are checked out in your name, the car is your responsibility. Unless you have proof of someone else driving the vehicle, any damage is up to the sales to repair. So we copy licenses and insurance, and on the copy write down the VIN, date, time, and approving manager. (Yes, our managers have to approve our test drives and showing of vehicles. Very invasive, don't like it too much, think my dealership is getting a little wacked out due to a new GSM who's never sold cars but has all kinds of IDEAS about how it should be done.) Then we pull the cars off the lot (very busy street in front of us and lots of salespeople and customers coming and going on the lot) and trade drivers about half a mile away.
Whew-- almost seems like too much work.
If the salesman wrecks the car, the dealership eats it, or the salesman takes care of it. I had a minor fender bender in 1994 on a vehicle I used as a demo (used truck). All of our demos were written in contract as a dealership rental, so my insurance covered it.
About four months ago the Ford dealership up the street let a Mustang out on a test drive on a Saturday night with two customers and a salesperson, and the customer ended up losing control and going off the highway, rolling 30 feet down into the ditch. Various degrees of injury all the way around, from what I understand the salesperson was in the back seat and sustained a spinal inujury.
A story like that comes down from the store three dealerships away, and you're sure to get everything you can before a test drive. Plus one of my old managers used to sell cars and was kidnapped and held for 3 hours before they threw him out (somewhere around Lubbock, if I recall) and took the car. I worked for him at a bar. He's been out of the car biz since that night. Go figure, right?
Texas is scary, guys.
The guy beat the heck out of him, took his wallet (for a whole $17!!) and took the car, leaving teh guy in the parking lot.
The car was recovered and the guy was caught a few days later.
Like I wasn't paranoid enough before going on a test drive...
The only time a copy of my license has been taken has been when they were letting me take the car on my own. If a salesperson is riding along, they just look at it to ensure it's valid.
But, just because you have driver's license doesn't mean you have insurance. If you have a license, and don't have a car, you don't have insurance. For example, a lot of my friends that work in Manhattan don't have cars. They do rent cars for weekend get-aways.
Their line to sell the waiver, and it's true is "protection in case of an at-fault (yours) accident, we won't have to involve your insurance company.
If your personal indurance doesn't cover rentals, you need to buy the waiver or you're on the hook.
Liability coverage my fix the other car, but won't do anything for that rental you're driving.
From what I understand of it, anyway.
If you get into an accident in a Dealership's car, why shouldn't you pay for it? If you borrow a buddies car, and wreck it, and you are at fault, the insurance co. will come after you, or your buddy might..
I can see the other side of the argument, too, but if I have to bear the responsibility for that $25k car I'm test driving, I need to be told so and I need to be offered a chance to buy insurance for the test drive. And without some coverage, I probably won't drive it, then. Some things are just so awful or expensive that even a small risk is too great. That's why I always buy the rental car insurance if I don't have my own coverage. I understand it's a bad deal, but I can't afford to be without it.
I haven't wrecked a car yet, borrowed or not. Still, I wouldn't borrow a friend's car unless it's insured or I can afford to pay him if I wreck it.
All this speculation is fairly idle... where are the pros who can tell us what the deal really is?
-Mathias
The dealership factor is not a factor at all.
If the wreck was someone else's (the other driver) fault, then their insurance covers it, so who cares?
When you drive a vehicle on a test drive, whether it's down the block or overnight, a "bailment" agreement is made between you and the person who owns the car. The bailment can be either written or not, but the simple fact that you don't yet own the car but are driving it, and the fact that you know you don't own the car, makes you assume bailment responsibility.
If you wreck it, place too many miles on it, used it to move your sister with and scratch it up - whatever - you're reponsible.
Where's the question?? This is silly.
When I have driven vans for the school, I have been told that I am covered under the school's insurance, and not my own.
I would have appreciated it if the dealerships had told me that should anything happen, the responsibility would be mine and my insurance would have to cover it.
Now, if they ask for my license, why not ask for a copy of my insurance, to make sure I am covered?
- Lou
A state with no fault insurance. You are testdriving the Belchfire 2003 and you are rear ended by a woman in 1973 Bonneville while you are stopped at a red light.
Prior to the accident, you see the woman reaching around to "parent" the three kids jumping around in the back seat sans seat belts.
Does the customer pay?
TB
GM said that what has happened is unacceptable since we are repeat customers and wants to do something for us like take money off the deal.
We are thinking of doing 1 of 2 things. Ask for our money back or 2 ask for dvd system & phone for free.
Any Advise?
That's baloney. Anytime there's a chance of trashing $20k+, I need to have insurance. I don't have that kind of money lying around. I could pay it, of course, but it'd make a severe dent in my finances.
How the heck am I supposed to insure myself against wrecking a car during a test drive?
What if I get cut off by some yahoo, swerve and then decide to hit a telephone pole rather than a pedestrian? I haven't done anything wrong, but I'm still on the hook... sort of like TB described.
"Where's the question?? This is silly."
You can debate this reasonably, or be condescending, and discuss it with whoever's left.
Like I said in my first post, I can see the other side of the argument. But upon reflection, my opinion is as stated. Anyone puts me in a situation where I might incur a substantial loss, they need to tell me what the risk is and how I may mitigate it.
Test drove a Sienna right to the gas station a while back 'cuz it was on empty. Now what's that??? I'm driving, the salesman is filling 'er up, am I acting as an "agent" of the business?
If it's about legalities, nothing is ever obvious... wouldn't need lawyers if it were.
God forbid.
-Mathias
If you have com/collision, unless you've got it through an SR-22 (bad news) and only minimum coverages apply, then you're covered when you're on a test drive, and it most states, a rental car.
My point of order was addressing the responsibility, not the insurance coverage. You stated that if you were on a test drive and had an accident, you'd expect the dealer to pick up the tab, and that's wrong. If it's your fault, let your insurance handle it, but the dealership shouldn't be out any money because you made a mistake.
Sure, you're on the hook if you wreck the car, just like if it was your car. My point is that it doesn't matter who owns the car when you're driving it.
I think we, as consumers, need to know explicitly from the dealer before taking a test drive, the full ramifications of taking the drive. I can not honestly remember any dealer telling me, "Sir, you do realize that you are liable for any damage to the vehicle."
Again, when you couple the lack of such a statement, with the dealer asking for a copy of your driver's license for "insurance purposes" it is very easy for a consumer to get the (possibly) mistaken impression that they (and their insurance) will be not liable for damage to the car.
And again, there have been instances when even though I am the driver, my employer has told me I am covered under their insurance. So such a concept is not altogether foreign.
There is also the possibility that state laws, which very possibly could differ, also affect this. I have read that in NY state it is possible to not only sue the driver, but also the owner of the vehicle in question.
I can't believe the GIANTS lost...
My karaoke buddy here in PA, originally from Long island, is a hard core Giants fan - I wanted te Giants to win so they could whup up on the Eagles. Bummer. I dont like Bill Parcells, but maybe he'll bring the Cowboys around.
No kidding. If it was my car, the maximum damage I could do to it is about $1500.
Any damage to other property/cars is covered by my liability insurance -- of which I carry LOTS.
When I test drove the $23k Sienna, I didn't have collision insurance on my car (it's a beater -- see above). I didn't think I was on the hook for the car if I wrecked it. I still don't think so... but I don't know. You can be sure I'll ask before the next test drive.
And no, it's not a silly question or a cut-and-dried issue at all. I doubt we'd be debating it if it was.. then again... this IS the internet....
Who knows, maybe I DO have collison coverage, because my wife does on her car...??
Violently yours,
-Mathias
Haven't heard of one of them for many years, since I last saw the comic "Grin and Bear It".
zues: What's the difference between a Philly loudmouth and a New York loudmouth?
About 90 miles?
-ss4 (Eagles fan who was sorry to see the Giants go down today)
He took down the Packers at Lambeau, after all.
BUT I'M NOT RESPONSIBLE.
NO ONE TOLD ME.
IT'S NOT MY FAULT.
HIS INSURANCE SHOULD COVER IT, NOT MINE. (Like his insurance doesn't cost him anything.)
The above is a lot of what is wrong with the USofA.
You wreck a test drive car, and OF COURSE IT WILL GET INTO YOUR LIABILITY. What in heck do you thing the liability coverage covers?
Collision covers YOUR CAR.
You are LIABLE when you are test driving, so your LIABIBITY coverage is what pays!
Copying your license is only getting an ID. They want it to help run you down if you wreck the car and escape on foot. And then get into your insurance.
Of course, all this assumes you have some insurance. If not, you are free as a bird, unless you have other assets and they want to come after them. If not, then this is the case where their insurance comes in - the reason they carry insurance.
"HIS INSURANCE SHOULD COVER IT, NOT MINE. (Like his insurance doesn't cost him
anything.)
The above is a lot of what is wrong with the USofA."
I think you're out of line.
Nobody said the dealer should be stuck with any damage.
I said that if the situation is as described, then I need to be told, as I take the keys: "You wreck it you bought it." It costs $10-15 to insure a rental car for a day. What could it cost to buy "test-drive insurance"?
I never take the wheel of anyone's car unless it's insured or I'm insured or it's worth so little I could replace it out of my own pocket.
If I had a business that basically required me to hand any yahoo that walks through the door a car to drive around for awhile, I'd certainly get them all insured. And I *believe* but don't know that that's what dealer plates are for.
"You wreck a test drive car, and OF COURSE IT WILL GET INTO YOUR LIABILITY. What in heck do you thing [sic] the liability coverage covers?"
I think it covers damage I do to other people's property.
It does not cover damage to other people's cars, unless they're parked when I hit them. That's how it works here in MI under no-fault.
It does not cover damage to a rental car that I wrap around a tree.
I don't see how it covers damage to ANY car I'm driving.
If I have collision, it covers damage to my car, to a rental that I am driving, and to any borrowed car that I am legally driving.
I'm still waiting for someone who *knows for sure* how this all works to chime in.
And I still think the dealer should carry insurance to cover for test-drive accidents. I still don't see how that's a problem, morally wrong, or otherwise bad for God and Country.
Anybody who wants to sell cars here in MI needs to have at least two dealer plates, it's a requirement. And those insure anybody who drives the merchandise, including customers. I think.
Somebody's gotta know for sure.
We need a fact check in aisle six, please?
-Mathias
And B, if someone caused an accident test driving a car and hurt or killed someone, who do you think the injured parties lawyer is going to go after, just you?
That's not to say they wouldn't go after you as well if something happened, but in reality, a dealer has to have some sort of insurance or be "self insured"
TB
If an accident occurs during the test drive or an overnight, the driver is paying - not the dealer .. right now with the high cost of insurance, most dealers have a $1,000+ deductible or more. Now a little scratch here or there I might let pass, but do $2,5 worth of damage to a Honda or a Caddy and I have a problem with getting it fixed and selling it.
The driver of any vehicle pays for their own damage, why would there be any difference with a dealers vehicle ..?
Terry.
The month before, it was a $90K two party cashier's check from a well known paper company that was fake.
As if this business isn't hard enough nowadays,
Ed
Liability DOES NOT cover the car you are driving. It covers the car you hit and any property or human damage you do, up to a certain limit (usually a state standard).
Even though you're "liable" it's your comprehensive portion of the policy that covers you if you wreck a demo or rental.
The dealer's insurance would take care of the dealer, then they would use the information on you (from your DL) to "subjugate" the claim. That means that the insurance company would try to collect form you (or your insurer).
If you do not have any insurance, they could (not saying they would) go after you personally. That is, they could sue you, and would probably win.
Then, if you don't pay, you have a judgement.
If you don't have insurance, then you're right on - many times, to prevent this with people where I had a question as to whether I thought they had insurance or current insurance, I'd get all the info from their trade. I'll get the driver's license, insurance and registration - we need all that to do a deal, anyway.
I've handled car deals differently from day one. I consult with folks and discuss their needs (like a salesman should) instead of playing tag all over the lot. I hate it when I see a salesman, meet someone, then jump in a car and take off. Unless you just drove one exactly like, you're not familiar with the controls and you don't even know/remember the salesman's name.
That's no effective selling or good business.
Cuz if you drive my car and wreck it, you just totalled a $1000 vehicle and I'd expect you to pay me.
And if you drove my wife's car and wrecked it you totalled a $10,000 vehicle and HER insurance would cover it. And I'd expect you to pay me the deductible.
So if I take a dealer's $20k car out they don't have collision/comprehensive on it? Oy vey!
Now, to be on the hook for a $1k deductible; that's a risk I would take in a heartbeat... it's not like I have ever wrecked a car yet in the first place. But to put myself in a situation where I might be out 10, 20 grand, that's serious business.
Y'all excuse me while I call my insurance carrier and see if my wife's policy covers me on rentals....
-M
If you don't have full coverage, the dealer's insurance will pay, and you will be asked for the deductible. If you don't pay the deductable, the dealer's lawyer will probably ask you for it in a courtroom.
If you're not at fault, the driver of the car that is at fault will have to pay, through their insurance, or their appearance in a courtroom.
Also, most dealers have ridiculously high deductibles. If I wreck a demo, I am personally responsible for the $2500 decuctible.
Ed
If it didn't work that way, then your insurance would go up because I had a wreck - that's not fair to you, or the way insurance regulations work.
BTW, why was I driving your wife's car? My wife would beat me, regardless of my intent.
At Lithia Auto Group, the manager's rides (demos) had $5,000 deductibles. This was to encourage you to use your own insurance.
The cars were leased to us (with no payment, but there was a 90 day lease contract), so I did "own" the car for insurance purposes.
If someone tests drive a vehicle .. and if an accident occurs, the driver gets tagged with the infraction and the damage is covered by his/her insurance co - not mine.
I don't even bother to call my insurance co, cuz they all keep track of a "potential" high risk customer with accident reports .. we had 10 last year for a total of $16,329 of damage .. the customer was driving and the customer paid.
Terry.
Again, just because you have a driver's license doesn't mean you have automobile insurance.
I know many people that have a license, for identification purposes only, and do not own cars.
Also, every employer I have worked for has told me that when I am driving on company business, whether it is my car, or theirs, that I am covered under their insurance policy.
Her in MA, you are required to carry some insurance for damage to someone else's property. I wonder if that would cover the dealer's vehicle?
I know that when I was in an accident with my parent's vehicle, my insurance took care of everything. My parent's company did not have to be involved at all.
In the case of driving a company car, your company usually provides the insurance as you are driving their vehicle for their benefit. But be careful when driving your own vehicle on company business. Unless you tell your insurance company you do so they may deny you coverage should anything happen or at a minimum will chase down your company's insurer for reimbursement.
In any case, the points will show up on your license if you are at fault.
I would love to have another Quest, but I doubt that's gonna happen. I'm pretty happy driving my Suburban, its big, powerful, and people get the heck out of my way. Of course big has a downside too......its that horrible sucking feeling on my checkbook!!
Glad to see you are still around, hope you had a great holiday season.
: )
Mackabee
Styling is, ummm, well, ahhhh, interesting.
Same as Quest, kinda odd but better than it is now.
I like the new full sized truck though. Titan I believe is the name.