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Any Questions for a Car Dealer?



  • raybearraybear Posts: 1,795
    In most cases you have plenty of time to come up with what you need to purchase the extended warranty, usually within a few months of the original's expiration.
  • mtwallacemtwallace Posts: 28
    So I guess it makes no difference whether I buy the extended warranty now or wait until shortly before the original one expires? After signing docs, as I was getting ready to leave, the F&I guy said if I decided to add the warranty, he would knock $300 off the price quoted.

    Hey - I have an idea. Why don't I ask HIM these questions I have? (LOL). I guess it's because when it comes to sales transactions, I rarely ask questions I odn't already know the answer to.

    Thanks, Mark
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Posts: 4,883
    I'd call quick. If the contract hasn't been sent in for funding yet...

    It may be possible to recontract.

  • audia8qaudia8q Posts: 3,138
    Some manufacturers allow a consumer to buy the extended service plan over time on a credit card... Ford, for example, will bill you in 12 monthly payments without interest if you pay with a credit card...check with the finance manager at the dealership

  • randyt2randyt2 Posts: 81
    Suppose a customer is looking for a new vehicle. The customer is considering purchasing one out of 2 or 3 cars. Your lot is the first lot that the customer visits, so this customer has not taken any competitive test drives nor has had any appraisals done on a trade-in. The customer wants to save a few bucks, but doesn't mind leaving some money on the table. The customer has already been pre-approved for a loan at a credit union but will consider dealer financing.

    Now, how should a customer act, and what type of preparation would you like the customer to have? And what suggestions do you have to make the transaction go smoothly as possible?
  • afk_xafk_x Posts: 393
    I would take the time to drive all 3 cars you are considering.

    Don't worry - 99% of the time any "great" deal they offer you will still be available when you come back.

    Good luck
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Posts: 4,883
    As a dealer...

    That customer is foolish to buy the first car they drive.

    Now, if you're out to buy, say, an Audi A4 and the first place you go treats you well and gives you a good deal that you're happy with, I see no reason not to pull the trigger.

    But, say, you're also looking at an IS300 and a 328i... I'd say that not looking at all cars is a bad idea.

  • audia8qaudia8q Posts: 3,138
    be upfront and honest with the salesperson...just say your considering 3 different cars and your test driving them all today and will be deciding which one to buy tomorrow. Then ask them to compare the car (features/benefits) agaisnt the others your considering. Dont be concerned with the price at this point. The homework you have done about the car and pricing on the internet has probably given you a "good idea" about pricing. Once you have decided on what car you want to own, then get your trade in appraised and work on the price.

  • brekkebrekke Posts: 304
    When I placed my factory order 4/28, I was told it would take 6-8 weeks and that my salesman would call beforehand with the VIN. No prob.

    From reading these boards, I found out that someone who ordered the same car 5/7 (different dealer, same state) has been driving his for a week, and that his dealer had told him the boat came in earlier than expected, around 6/10.

    I hadn't heard a peep from my dealer in over 7 weeks so a few phone calls later he finally gets back to me and says I should have it by next week, so I should "sit tight" (and of course there was no VIN and he has not called back with it as he said he would and he obviously doesn't know where the car is.)

    Now I'm a little miffed at this lack of communication so I'm wondering, am I being unreasonable or am I being jerked around?
  • raybearraybear Posts: 1,795
    It depends. Sometimes a dealer gets lucky and can swap a car from another dealer before the ordered unit arrives. If it's an Outback Sport, your wait could reasonably be closer to 3 months if it's a special order.
  • ejones31ejones31 Posts: 12
    I own a automobile that have about $5000 to $7000 in negative equity. I would love to trade the car. I was at a mazda dealer and the salesman stated he can hide the negative equity in a 2001 Mazda Millennia because the car has a $6000 dealer cash rebate reducing the price of the car to $22,165. Please explain to me how this can be done and if I should try this approach.
  • lancerfixerlancerfixer Posts: 1,308
    It sounds as if yes, he can "hide" the negative equity, but you certainly won't be paying $22k for that new Millenia-- most likely you'll be close to MSRP, plus Millenias depreciate quickly; in another year you'll be back in the same boat with the negative equity. ALl he's doing is applying the rebate to paying down your present car. I think you should tough it out and get to a position where you're at the very least starting with positive trade equity.
  • fladriverfladriver Posts: 64
    I'll bet you will be even deeper in a hole with another new car. The only way to get out of the hole is to drive a car--whichever one you happen to have--for a long time. That way you can at least get back to zero equity.

    You can't have your cake and eat it, too.

    Ask yourself, "is my goal to keep driving a new car every few years, or do I want to settle up for what I already owe?
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Posts: 4,883

    Like lancer said, the negative equity isn't going anywhere.

    However, Banks often use MSRP or Invoice as a guideline on how much money they will advance on a car. With really super credit you can generally borrow 110% of MSRP.

    I.E. SunTrust ain't gonna loan you $35,000 on a Daewoo no matter how good your credit is. Which makes sense.

    Now, take the Millenia. Say that MSRP is $29K, Invoice $27K, and there's $6K of dealer cash. (Wow.. $6K of dealer cash? Ouch. No wonder they depreciate like they do..)

    So, say that you can buy this millenia for $22,000. But, the Bank will loan 110% of the $29K MSRP or $31,900. That's $10,000 that you can "bury" in this car. So, you'd get trade-in for your car, pay $22K for the Millenia, but they can stack the $6K of negative equity on top of the $22K sale price as they're still below the "max advance" or the maximum that a bank will loan on the car.

    Doesn't mean that you won't be buried. In fact, you'll be buried even worse than you are now. I'd think this over very carefully. You may want to hold onto your present car if you can and try wacking up higher payments on it or something.

    If you want to drive a new car every few years, you may want to take a close look at leasing... Depending on the car it can be a lot cheaper in many cases.

  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 20,350
    If you get the Millenia you would be buried beyond belief.

    Not bad cars, but WOW, do they depreciate.

    What's the matter with the car you have now?
  • scottdudescottdude Posts: 177
    I've had dealers tell me that they can get whatever color I want of a particular car by swapping out with another dealer. Three questions about this:

    1. Do dealers typically charge for doing this? Will the other dealer expect a share of the commission or profit or does it all work out in the end since the other dealer may need a car from someone else eventually?

    2. Are the cars transported on a flatbed truck or driven from dealer A to dealer B?

    3. When a customer makes this kind of deal, can they write "sale contingent upon acceptable test drive" on the deposit?
  • jpvwaudijpvwaudi Posts: 139
    We use old guys to drive and get our cars. If we do have to swap a car in, don't expect to buy it for 200 over invoice. If we don't trade a car to get your car, essentially buying the car outright from the other fealer, we don't even get holdback.
  • michaellnomichaellno Posts: 4,300
    About 10 years ago, I was in the market for a Nissan Sentra SE. Colors available at dealer were red and white. Thought I wanted a black one, so I asked the dealer to obtain one for me from another dealer.

    They did ... about 60 miles away. Swapped a car in their inventory with the black SE. When I came in to look at it, I noticed that the black one had pinstripes, which made the car look hideous. So, I ended up taking the red one in stock. Dealer didn't seem to think it was that big of a deal.

    No special paperwork, no commitments. However, depending on the car you're looking for, that may not always be true.

    Just my .02
  • mvargo1mvargo1 Posts: 298
    Dealer swaps are almost always driven from dealer to dealer. If you are willing to pay for a flatbed, I will have it towed. Sometimes the closest car is pretty far away, 300 miles for example. In that case I am going to have to flatbed the car because the dealer is not going to want a car with 300 extra miles on it. In that case I will give you the choice of paying extra, choosing a different color, or custom ordering a car.

    Interesting exception all Jaguar Dealer trades are transported at Jag's expence within a reasonable distance. Jag's can also be traded before they arrive at port.
  • shogun1313shogun1313 Posts: 17
    A couple of years ago I found myself in a Honda dealership in Atlanta. During the first offer the salesperson requested a signiture as a confirmation that if all terms were acceptable that I would buy the vehicle. This was before the final negotiations on trade and actual sales offer was finalized.

    The request was surprising and under pressure the saleperson did not press the point of the request id denial was forwarded. What I do not understand is why any dealership should need your signiture on a document that isn't a invoice, or worse yet a finalized price not yet set.

    Additionally, what is even more strange is that if one wanted out of the lion's den they could simply take the position that an new Accord is not worth a dime over $5K and then get up and leave.

    This dealership was, at the time, the second place volume dealership in America. I, was not a buyer nor a friend of a buyer, but a student working a summer job as a weekend salesperson for the dealer. I never fully understood why such a request should be made unless some psychology was at play.

    Any interpreters out there on this aspect of the negotiaton play?
  • rworrellrworrell Posts: 151
    Shogun, I think you're right--it's a psychological ploy. I've read that it's not legally binding, but that most people are people "of their word" and so feel obligated to go through with the deal if they sign.

    Still, even though I've read that, I have a strong sense of personal responsibility and I think I would still feel obligated to buy the car. In the past, I've refused to sign the promise a few times, but I've never signed and not done the deal.

    I also would be interested to see what the dealers have to say--it's certainly a high pressure technique.
  • amazonamazon Posts: 293
    You've mentioned Jimmy Bryan in another discussion. I lived in Orlando up until a couple of years ago, and had an encounter with their Mazda store on 436. I left with an impression that these guys are sleazeballs. A friend was taken for a ride in another of the JB stores as well. Is this your impression as well?
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Posts: 4,883

    Things worked a lot differently at Lexus. But, umm, now that I am no longer emplyed by JB I have no regrets shall we say?

    Although there have been some substantial changes at Lexus recently, it is a nice store if I do say so myself (Also my very good friend is the GSM which is a good thing. I hope)

  • coupescoupes Posts: 5
    I have a 1998 Mercury Villager S. I would like to lease an Acura. I went to the dealer the other day and they didn't even go out to look at the vehicle before saying they would only offer me $9,-10,000 for it. They said this is the black book price. I have been on the internet and checked all of the used car references that I could find (including Edmunds)and all of them with current equipment showed a wholesale value of nearly $13k and some nearly $15K.

    My question is this, is there a base listing and then a separate page to add on additional equipment in the "black book"? I did a pretty extensive search of dealers in the area of the country I live in to see what price they were selling this model at and found nearly all of them were around $15-17K retail. I only found two out of 20 that were retailing for around $13k.
  • agt_cooperagt_cooper Posts: 202
    You might want to take a look at the "Real World Trade-in Values" topic. There are several very knowledgeable car dealers who are kind enough to provide pricing information based on the real-world. As a rule, they find most of the pricing information available to consumers just a tad optimistic!!!!

    Anyway, take a look at the topic and see what you think.....
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 20,350
    Or you might want to sell it yourself if you really think it's worth a lot more.
  • jodettejodette Posts: 9
    Is there such a thing as a trade in fee..a fee to trade in your old car. I was charged a $350 fee to trade in my car.
  • raybearraybear Posts: 1,795
    Are you sure it wasn't the doc or admin fee? Or did you turn in a leased vehicle? I've never heard of a trade in fee.
  • coupescoupes Posts: 5
    RE: selling Villager

    I believe there's a law in the state I live in prohibiting the sale of a leased vehicle to a third party other than a dealer.
  • The Villager owner said he wanted to lease an Acura, nothing about his Villager being a lease.

    I too think he should sell it privately. Dealers will low ball you no matter how great shape your trade-in is. They rarely even check the condition of the car, which is actually good if you have numerous problems with it. I've recently traded in a car with squealing brakes and the dealer never even mentioned it.

    Anyone in the market for a new car should check out www.carsdirect.com, it's a great site to compare prices and to use in negotiations.
  • tboner1965tboner1965 Posts: 647
    Everything about Shaq is BIG

    But, could you turn down the font, it's hurting my eyes ;^)

  • coupescoupes Posts: 5
    Wouldn't it be better to get more for your trade on a lease then to lower the cost of the new car?
    I'm running the numbers on a calculator that seems to suggest that it's better for the consumer to get more for a trade and less discount as opposed to lowering the cap and lowballing the trade.
  • isellpotiacisellpotiac Posts: 122
    is pull all equity out of lease deal in the form of a check back to the consumer. Considering most sub vented leases are charging interest below 5% it makes no sense to put any of your car equity into the lease in order to lower the lease payment. Granted the payment must fit your budget but I have seen customers drive away with a $100 a month lease payment only to return in 3 years with an unrealistic view of the car market. Had one guy trade in a Jimmy and we cut him back a check for the equity. He put in a swimming pool! It is 10 am and 82 degrees and humid, I think I will give him a call to see how he is doing!
  • kkollwitzkkollwitz Posts: 274
    I'm shopping for a 2001 F-body. Current customer rebates are $1500 for a V6, $750 for a V8. Let's look at a couple of cars in the Sunday paper:

    2001 Camaro V6, $17,920 MSRP
    $16,441 invoice
    -$13,990 sale price
    $2,451 difference
    -$1,500 V6 rebate to dealer
    $ 951 ?

    2001 Trans Am, $29,002 MSRP
    $26,565 invoice
    -$24,489 sale price
    $2,076 difference
    -$ 750 V6 rebate to dealer
    $1,326 ?

    My question is, where's the extra discounting coming from? Is GM offering a Factory-to-Dealer of $1,000 on V6s and $1,500 on V8s? Those amounts would cover the extra discounting and leave a little left over for the dealer.
  • goralgoral Posts: 145
    Do these adds have stock numbers mentioned in them? If so, they may be advertising "program" cars, or when you visit the dealer, the cars may turn out to be sold , but they will have some similar ones @ regular $$$.
  • dsoiamdsoiam Posts: 32
    goral, do stock numbers listed in an add indicate that whats advertised is a program car?

    Also, can we say that a dealer is possibly just selling for below invoice after rebates? I would guess not because that would mean that they'd make no money.But, after reading kkollwitz's original message, I thought that the premise was right: the dealer was collecting some company to dealer incentive and still making profit. But, goral seems to indicate that the issue is that the advertised cars either don't exist or they're not entirely desirable (like program cars with many miles on them, for instance).

    I'm looking at a van that the dealer gave me the invoice for (it seems to me to be the invoice). He discounted the incentives and offered me the car for that price (invoice minus incentives). I'm about to ask him to drop the price a few hundred (or throw in a luggage rack or something). Is that even an option? Your questions have me thinking that to ask him that is to ask him to make nothing off of the deal (since I'm asking him to sell it to me for, basically, below invoice). I guess there may be a company to dealer incentive and thats his profit. But, if there isn't, then I'm asking him to pay me to take the car. Thats not right I wouldn't think.

    Anyway, two questions: Do stock numbers in an ad indicate program cars or something?

    And, do dealers sometimes make nothing on a sell?

  • kkollwitzkkollwitz Posts: 274
    and the ads show the stock numbers, so I feel pretty sure the deals are real.
  • zueslewiszueslewis Posts: 2,353
    generally indicate the type of vehicle - new, used, program, consignment, etc. Program vehicles (or "outside purchase") usually have a "P" in the number - avoid them, they're usually rental returns and how do most people drive rentals? The letters a, b, c, etc at the end of a stock number usually indicates that vehicle is a trade-in on the primary stock number vehicle. When a vehicle is sold at invoice, the dealer will either keep YOUR rebate or is getting large money from the manufacturer. 2001 Jeep Grand Cherokees have a $3000 dealer cash incentive - get the dealer to dip into his pocket for some of that!
  • audia8qaudia8q Posts: 3,138
    Whenever we do a very low price we either put in the ad "order yours today" or a specific stock number....I will order a really ugly color combination with a strange selection of options, then this will be the car I advertise at invoice less incentives, holdback etc....it brings lots of people in the door...they all make faces at the ugly "ad car" (which I will gladly sell for the ad price to the first person who offers) but generally people end up buying a different car in-stock at substantially higher price.

  • goralgoral Posts: 145
    Exactly what Rich said... I was going to buy an Isuzu Trooper last year (when they were offering like $6K rebate/incentive on them), and saw a deal that seemed too good to be true (like $10K off sticker). Well, once I got to the dealership, it turned out that this NEW Trooper was a demo/program car w/ 6K miles on.
    Needless to say, I passed on it :)
    What's interesting is that on the day I was going to go to the dealer (and use my '96 Maxima SE as a trade-in), I got a call from someone who was interested in it (I posted an add on autotrader 4 months before, and never got any replies!). Turns out, the guy liked my car, and bought it on the spot (well, he gave me a deposit). So now, I sold my car and didn't get the Trooper!!! Few days later, though, I wound up going to a dealer auction and picking up '96 3.5RL so all was well :)
  • I've purchased an advertised car, which was about
    $1000 under invoice, which was unheard for a popular car (Honda CR-V). It wasn't my first choice for a color but looked real good. The mileage was less than 25 miles and was in perfect condition.

    But I soon found out that the car being in stock wasn't the difficult part, it was dealing with the finance manager. He tried to sell $3k worth of aftermarket junk, which I promptly declined. Then he said I couldn't buy the car w/o the junk. I figured this was illegal, but since I really wanted the car I decided to buy LoJack and finance with them. I didn't save as much money as I thought I would, but I still saved $3k-$5k compared to other dealers I had previously visited.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 20,350
    Your advise is flawed...A P in the stock number probably means the car was PURCHASED rather than a trade in.

    A so called "program car" is usually an ex-rental which isn't necessarilly a bad thing either.

    A purchased car could have come from the auction or bought outright from a customer.

    And, good (and bad) cars come from all sources.

    As an example, last month we wholesaled about 50 cars that didn't meet our standards. Most of those were trade ins.
  • flyerjohnflyerjohn Posts: 7
    I am planning to buy a new vehicle this week. I want to use my CC to get the airline miles instead of paying cash. What is the best way to get the deal done? Should I be willing to pay the fee the dealer has to pay the CC company? If so, how much?
  • raybearraybear Posts: 1,795
    Some dealers may not be willing to go along. Yes, they pay a fee, but there have been a few jokers in the past who claimed to their CC company that they did not authorize the purchase or they want to return the car. The CC company goes to bat for their customer and the dealer gets burned, or has to wait for his money.
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Posts: 9,359
    ........ As a rule, dealers won't do it..but, since you are willing to pay the freight..so to speak..they probably will go for it ... I can tell you at my stores, unless we were making 3/4,000 on the vehicle we would not do it..depending on the CC company the charge can be from 3 to 6%..

  • mvargo1mvargo1 Posts: 298
    We got sued by a lawyer who wanted to charge an entire $75,000 plus tax and tags XK8 convertable to his credit card to get the miles. We won because their is no sign in the window of the showroom indicating that we accept credit cards.

    There is however a sign back in parts and service. So we established a policy of accepting no more than $5,000 on a credit card. With the tight margins in this buisness losing 3% of $5000 is still not a good thing, but better than 3% of $75,000.

    IF you are willing to pay the fee you may be able to find a dealer willing to go along with you.
  • bstreetbstreet Posts: 37
    can someone tell me what the typical fee for a new tag is? why would a dealer take money into escrow for this purpose? is that a normal practice?

    thanks in advance.
  • hiwaysanityhiwaysanity Posts: 216
    The cost of tags depends entirely on the state's laws. Your profile doesn't give where you live, so nobody could answer accurately.

    Here in the People's Republic of Massachusetts, tags cost only the processing fee, which is something like $60. They certainly would not put that into escrow. We pay our 5% sales tax separately to the Registry of Motor Vehicles at the time the car is bought. They might want to put that much into escrow until the deal is closed. We also pay a separate Excise tax to our local town annually (supposedly) for road maintenance. Excise starts out at 2.5%, and decreases as the car ages.

    So that's $60 for the tags, plus $1,000 sales tax(on a $20k car) plus $500 Excise for the 1st year = $1,560. Some states collect similar such "fees" and taxes as part of the price of the tags. If that's the case, personally, I would rather that money go into escrow until I get the car, rather than lay in the dealer's financial rep's office. From the time you pay it to the dealer until they finish the deal could take several days if a weekend is involved. It's safer for you that way.

    Do they want to charge you for the cost of escrow? I think I would object to that!

    Hope this run-on bit helps some. BTW, I am not a dealer. Maybe one of them can tell you more.
  • bstreetbstreet Posts: 37
    Hi, thanks so much for the explanation. I live in Florida.
    I was told that the tag would be $225 and that the money would be put in escrow and the unused portion returned to me. I didn't realize it would only be held until the deal was finalized, and was confused on that aspect. After reading your posting, i understand now. Thank you!
  • lc9063lc9063 Posts: 17
    Can anyone tell me the additional charges (other than car price, Dest Chrg, and NYS sales tax) I can expect to confront when buying a car in NY.
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