As mentioned in my previous posts, I don't think you should worry about having lesser service from the dealer of choice for service. If it does become an issue, follow the recomendations I mentioned. As far as knowing where you bought the car, it would be easy. He won't exactly know where (without a little investigation) but if your not in his computer system initialy he knows you didn't get it from them..kinda simple....good luck
...how's that '03 treating you? I still havent pulled the trigger on my Titanium Ed, and I might just be out of luck soon because we dont feel quite comfortable yet after the home purchase.
Anybody still seeing alot of '03 Max's still hanging around? The dealer closest to me has sold out...
Are any 2003 automatic Camry LEs made in Japan? Are Japanese-made Toyotas of better quality than American-made ones?
Is an extended warranty useful, or is it just a ploy for the dealer to gain extra money?
I very recently bought a new Camry, and opted for paint & rust proofing, which isn't scheduled to be done till 3 weeks later. Now, I realise that I shouldn't have opted for it. Can I go back to the dealer and "return" it and get a "refund"?
hondayguy9, I don't agree with your method of reporting to the manufacturer if no loaner was provided because customer "didn't buy here." What if the manufacturer does not require a loaner car program, and the dealership has one but ONLY offers it to the people who bought there? Telling the manufacturer in that case won't do any good.
This is kind of the same question I asked about a few days ago. The difference being that I would buy elsewhere due to better pricing. Chornton (sorry if I misspelled your username), said basically to shop the better price at the closer dealership (but to buy at the closer dealership).
I think m5power has a legitimate concern. I would be miffed if some jerk got a share of commission off my car. But I agree with the dealership guys, some things are not in my control, it's best to simply let it be.
Mackabee, Is it just me, or did you confess that your absolute bottom "no haggle" internet price is padded by a few hundred dollars in case someone grinds you? If they don't grind you, does the sale net a few extra hundred dollars or do you give the customer a lowered absolute bottom price?
The point is being missed here again though, you don't notify the manu. because he is not giving you a loaner car or any other service. Most manu. don't require their service dept. to have loaner cars anyway, it's the service of the individual dealers. You notify them that you are being singled out and discriminated against for not buying there. The manu. is happy that you bought their product and want you to continue to purchase their product and service it with them. The dealer is a representative of them and must act accordingly and service all customers without bias....I know this, we service other dealers sold customers all the time, we are happy too. We make more in service with half the headache and turn half of those into buying customers anyway. I still disagree strictly from experience, no need to believe me, lol...but it's the truth. Bottom line, if you don't get full service no matter what, go somewhere else, you will get it. ...You guys travel the globe for months to save a couple hundred bucks but you'll let someone for the next who knows how many years not give you full service????......hmmmmmmm
A vendor stopped by this week to go over some new telco equipment, and I noticed he too had an 02/03 Maxima. Turned out he just bought it a few months ago also.. his excitement was about the same as mine.
He hasn't had any problems with his either, which for me personally is unusual with a new car. I almost ALWAYS have to go back multiple times to get little things fixed, or in the case of my 96 Jetta, towed back for major electrical system failures. The Maxima is an utterly flawless car, and one that I will be driving for many, many years.
That said, I can understand holding off if you just bought a house. For about the year after we bought our first house, we ended up pouring so much money into it! Nothing major, but stuff you don't even think about like curtains and lawn care costs an absolute boatload of money. I'd wait a little while, especially if you bought an older house. Six months down the road, you might realize you need a new roof!
If you need something 'extra," do you think the dealer will do more for you if you purchased the car there AND have it serviced there? I've had service managers go the extra mile for me because I purchased the car from that dealership. Believe me, a "friend" in the service department is far more valuable than saving $100 on a car by driving to a farther dealership.
Do I do more for my long-term loyal clients than someone new? Of course. Cultivating a relationship with a dealer is worth its weight in gold.
hondaguy9, Thank you for your perspective. I guess I was looking at it a little differently. I see the dealership giving loan cars as going above and beyond on service to provide an incentive to earn business. I don't have too much of a problem of them saying "you didn't buy here so you don't get the loan car" because if the manufacturer didn't dictate it, I think it's fair for the dealership to set their rules.
dsattler, I would think that the service would be nicer if the car was purchased there. Unfortunately I move a lot (just about to settle down for a little bit I think), so this doesn't usually happen. I am probably too picky; want the best price on the car and the best service.
I have been refused warranty service at a dealer where I did not buy my car. I reported them to the manufacturer's customer service and got a reply saying that the dealer shouldn't have done that and the manufacture would be taking disciplinary action against them.
Regardless, I will never return to that dealer because of this incident. The dealer I am currently going to for service is excellent and has treated me very well.
so right. A valuable relationship with your service dept. is essential and much more important than 100.00. Then again I thought spending more time with your family or friends instead of spending many weekends driving the countryside saving that C note was more important, but silly me. Taking someone elses customer into our service dept. and pampering them enough to become our full customer instead of just pushing fully away should be standard as well...don't ya think
you are 100% right. You kinda answered your own question. "I see the dealership giving loan cars as going above and beyond on service to provide an incentive to earn business". If I said to you "hey you didn't buy here so you don't get a loaner car and walk from here" Tell me, how much will you be inspired to come back to me for your next new car as apposed to the opposite, being impresed that I give you exceptional service regardless and honored to have you as a customer.
Right on both counts. I can usually tell when a customer is a "grinder" on the net, they give off the same "grinder" signals as they do in person; questioning your invoice, using Consumer report wholesale figures, etc,. But like I said before, I give my rock bottom price. I haven't blown out a customer out of the store (yet). Although you could say I blew one out of the computer, wanted to pay $1700.00 under invoice on a Limited 4runner and questioned TDA,holdback, etc.etc. I finally e-mailed him and said "I'm sorry your figures don't agree with mine. $xxxx is the least I'll take for that vehicle. Thank you". Plus it's hard for me to compete with my own store when they advertise Camry (for example) at xxx below invoice and I have them on the net for invoice or $500.00 over. Usually we get into this peeing contest on the last week of the month. The Gm of the store will run some crazy ad to drive traffic to the store (we've even started calling him "Crazy Eddie")that is below what I'm selling the cars on the net so I will have to sell them at that price also. There's a pricing structure that I stick to on the net cars, for example: $500.00 over invoice on Camrys, Corollas, etc., $1800.00 over invoice on 4runners, Sequoias, Highlanders, and so forth. Echos I blow those out all the time at cost. It just depends on the market at that particular time. Where we are making money right now is on used cars, obviously used cars are one of a kind and not like new cars where you can get one anywhere for about the same price give or take a couple of hundred. It's been fun so far and I'm not having to go on the lot at all. Plus I'm spending more time with my family, and no more Sundays!! Whoo Hooo! : )
Dealers are closed here in Colorado on Sundays as well.
My experience with loaner cars varies. Both the Ford dealer and the VW dealer I work with have relationships with local rental agencies. In the past, they have both given me vouchers for rentals if my car or truck is in the shop.
My Saturn dealer doesn't do loaners or rentals of any sort, even if you did buy the car there. In fact, they have a map that shows how far their shuttle van will go -- I think it's like a 5 or 7 mile radius.
On a related note, my Saturn dealer is quite a distance from where I live, and way out of the way between my home and my work. A new Saturn dealer is opening up later this year that is going to be much more convienent to my house. Would I be inconsiderate to switch my business to them, even though my current dealer has treated me very well?
..... I think what Rivertown and some of the others might be forgetting is - it's not the $100 ~ it's that in the "real world", what most folks that are shopping the internet prices forget is, they have pay-offs on their trades .. they feel their vehicle is worth $7,500 on a $5,000 vehicle, then everything changes when they get to the dealership, especially when they feel their vehicle is in Excellent shape .. this isn't a dealer thing, this is a buyer thing ..
Another factor that falls into play here, is being able to "qualify" for any special financing that is going on at the time .. kinda remember, only 40% of the buying market qualifies for all that special financing .. so add an extra $2,500 in a pay-off, add a lower beacon score, then $100 doesn't effect the deal - it's the higher interest rate and Xtra dollars to be financed ~~ the funny part is, there is a lot of folks that drive around or fax 20 dealers looking to save a $100, when they have forgot about that extra $2,000/$4,000 on their part .. unfortunately this common.
Well, the deal on the Corolla fell through, something about regional allotments or something. Didn't matter anyway, we went and drove one.....finally, and hated it, the driving position sucked for me, I have a bad back and a bad knee.
So, that sent us looking again, I hate car shopping. We thought about a Suburban, but $18k would buy one that was right at its mileage for needing repairs, plus the gas mileage is horrible.
Went to the *cringe* Ford dealer and drove a *double cringe* Focus. Needless to say, we ordered a fully loaded wagon, leather, heated seats, sport package, moonroof, stability control, and a few other things. Yes, I know they drop like a rock when you drive them off the lot, but we don't care, it will be with us until it dies.
I was ready to go buy my Escort back, its sitting on a car lot looking all pretty. That Focus impressed me and that takes a lot.
I don't have my car serviced at the dealership where I got my car. The service I get is fine. I can assure you that the service people don't give a crap where you bought your car. They want you as a customer of their SERVICE DEPARTMENT. They are not salesmen. In fact, my service department is across the street from where the cars are sold.
I was shopping at a BMW dealership where they flat out told me that buyers that buy from them get first preference in the service dept. when it comes to getting a loaner.
You might want to look at a camry if the corolla wasn;t comfortable. I had a rental for a month and I was surprised by how well it does on the hwy. I drive them every day, but it's different when you bring a car into your personal driving environment.
I said previously, I'm sure it's that dealer. We have several loaners and it's all first come, first serve , NO MATTER WHERE YOU BOUGHT....Loomie hit it on the head,,,,money is money
I once had a dealer refuse to do some work on my car because I didn't buy it there. I needed some regular maintenance and some NVH work; they did the maintenance stuff but when I asked about the rattles & buzzes, the service mgr flat out told me to take it to the dealer where I bought it. Even when I protested he said they weren't going to mess with those problems and I should take it back to my original dealer. Then he turned and walked away.
That was the first and last time I took any of my Ford's to them, which sucked for me because that dealer was within walking distance of my house.
By and large, service should make no difference where you bought the car - BUT - there are exceptions. Look at it like this - you're the service manager, you have 2 customers who would like a rental. Customer A has bought 3 cars from this dealer, and has service performed every 3 months or so. Customer B has never bought a car here, and has had 2 minor sevices done. Which customer do you think will get the loaner? Same thing if the customer is disputing a legit charge on the service bill - longtime customer, no problem, let me remove that for you. Someone who pops in once or twice a year, sorry. These are kinda extreme examples, in most cases, the service writer is just happy to be getting your money and could care less where you bought your car.
As for the "Internet Fluff" question about "absolute rock bottom price"... Well, I never say my price is set in stone except on certain rare occasions. If I may,I would like to add another Famous: "Bad Car-Guy Metaphor" TM to the pile.
Think of best price as a suitcase full of straight pins. (Not the hard kind, the kind with cloth sides) - Trust me, I'm going somewhere here. Now, asking best price is like asking if you can fit one more pin in the suitcase. (Or if you prefer, how many pins the suitcase can hold). Now, living in a universe of fixed space, logically there MUST be some mathematical point where the suitcase can really and truly not hold ONE MORE PIN. In practice, you'll find you can always fit "just one more". If you take emotions out of it, I can't imagine any situation where a salesmanger wouldn't take off "ONE MORE DOLLAR" to put a deal together. I've seen deals go that really and truly "lose" money, even taking holdback, etc into account just to keep the deal from the competiton. For that reason, I see "Best Price" as a mythical figure. There is no acceptable number at which if the customer signed a document saying "I will buy for one dollar less" a deal would not be done. (If you take an irked sales manager out of the equation) What I quote is a fair, competetive price. I know I'll be shopped. Will someone beat my offer? Probably. That's the whole idea of why any number can be shopped successfully. My goal is to present my offer in a straightforward and honest manner so that if a customer DOES beat my deal by a few hundred bucks, they come back to me for a second chance. There is no number you can throw out there that SOMEONE won't beat just to say they did it. If you put it on a $50 loser, someone will take $100 loser just to get your sale.
Well, I guess I have it coming, go ahead. Flame on.
You have a very valid point. I do that all the time when the customer is actually sitting in my showroom. The main and most important step as you know is to get them thru the door. It's the ones that just want to throw numbers around on the net and never set foot on at your dealership that you'll never sell. : ) Mackabee
For the most part it's not the salespeople that lie, it's usually the buyers and very often it's the dealer principal who will be involved in the biggest lying scenarios going on inside a dealership.
We looked at a Camry, but it wasn't comfortable for me to drive either. Toyota lost it with the 03 model year I think, don't know what's up with the driving positions. I'm 5'7" and have long legs, the only car in the past few years that I have liked (well, besides the Grand Cherokee I had) has been the 94 Escort I just sold a few weeks ago.
I was looking for a car that most closely match it for driving position, shifting, and just in general driving. Suprised the heck out of me when it turned out to be the Focus. Now, if I could just get my darn salesman to return my calls.....ugh.
Jolie, I don't know if they have a support group for what you've got. But there should be one, and you should be in it. I recognize your problem because I've got the same bug. Anyway, time for an intervention: Don't buy that Focus. When you say how you're going to keep the Focus "forever", we both know it's unlikely it'll have more than two birthdays at your house... just write down a list of the cars you've bought/sold over the last four years... show me yours, I'll show you mine, it's easy to go through a half dozen cars in three years, isn't it?
Add to that some credit problems in your past, and I'd say: If ya gotta buy new, buy something that REALLY holds its value... if a Focus is OK, how about a Matrix? You'll see more $$ back on that one, and it'll do everythign the Focus wagon will. Or buy used, which I realize is an adventure in Alaska.
Like I said, I've got the car bug as bad as you do, so I sympathize. Your hubby has it too, apparently -- didn't you just ask about a 3/4 ton pickup with the big motor he bought 4 months ago?? Oy vey.
Yup, couldn't agree more, except I didn't have the courage to write it. It's the thrill of the purchase rather than owning the car that's most important I'm guessing. I was happy when you said you were getting a Corolla even though it was the S model rather than the CE you should be considering, but hey, it's your life and money.
Margin on net shopping is $100? Maybe even even less for a grinder, is my guess. Prob higher for a non-grinder, a non-negotiator. My thought is that the savings is primarily in sidestepping the grinding while still getting a low price. For folks who enjoy the negotiating, I figure the bucks savings is minimal. Even for them, however, it's quicker to find the desired car on the net than by driving (or even calling) here, there, everywhere.
Trade-ins - I do agree. The way I'd put it, if the buyer doesn't know as much about selling his trade as about buying his new car, he's gonna get bit. Not a prob for me the last two cars I bought, though; I was replacing 'totals'. Prior to that, 'twouldn't have been a prob, either; I private sold my used cars. Given the spread on used cars, private selling is the only reasonable way to go, to me.
Financing - I agree again. If the buyer doesn't know what he's doing, he's gonna take a hit on the financing. What worked for me net buying was to request a quote, stating I'd use either my own financing or the dealer financing. In my shopping, many of the netguys offered special financing; and we finalized the price contingent upon that credit deal. Dunno how much sway the dealer has in approving the credit deal, but I'm pretty sure in one of my buys the dealer qualified me for a loan in spite of an ex's junk credit showing up on my credit report. Financing doesn't really matter, however, if the buyer is honest with himself about the credit he qualifies for and has alternative financing lined up like he should. The dealer holds rate or withholds special financing? The buyer walks to another dealer or uses his own credit.
The cool thing about the net is that the buyer can participate competitively in a competitive market.
What Mack and TK are saying about pricing on net quotes reminds me of Terry's words once on used car pricing. I think the idea also applies to buyers. There's the 'asking price' There's the 'liking price' There's the 'taking price'
Mack and TK's quotes sound like they are in lower range of their 'liking price' but above their 'taking price'.
As a buyer, Mack's quote sounds like there's no room for negotiation. It's 'no haggle'. I can't tell the tone of TK's. If Mack's quote isn't low, it's gonna take something special for me to even look twice. He better be closer, have a stellar rep, be nicer, have a scarce color I love, something. If TK's quote isn't close enough to the low one(s), I'm probably not gonna pester him with a counter unless there's something in his quote e-mail to suggest that he's got room to go lower. If it close enough (Dunno how much is close enough. Within $200, maybe?) and his dealership is near, I'd be replying by phone: "Good deal. Confirm the numbers, and I'll right there."
For me as a buyer, there's a wishing price a liking price a taking price With the net, there's no need for me to do worse than my liking price.
Ok guys, here's the deal, I HAVE to keep what I buy this time, no choice there. We are going to need a new truck in 2 years, a 1-ton to pull our 18k GVWR trailer and a 4-horse gooseneck and we can't do that if I'm buying and selling what I drive every few months.
That said, I'm not as bad as I used to be about buying and selling......let's see, in the past year and a half I've owned a 1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee, lost it, a 1990 Suburban with 161k and a bad engine, trans, and rear end, traded it for the 94 K2500, a 1994 Escort that I sold to make it possible to get a new car with functioning seat belts and 4 doors. Other than that I've got an 85 Jeep Cherokee (does that count?) sitting in the yard for emergencies, it runs, sometimes.
As for selling the 94 K2500, that only came up because it had an electrical problem and was popping fuses left and right. Its fixed and has absolutely no problems, well, other than the HUGE sucking sound that it seems to produce anytime its started. He'll keep it for a while, he usually keeps his trucks at least 2 years. Sometimes longer, he had an 88 F-150, bought new in February of 1988, sold in May of 1997, bought back in October of 1999, sold to my little brother in February of 2001 and he's still driving it.
Now, on to the new car. I doubt it will be a Focus, the ford dealer done ticked me off yesterday. Tried to negotiate price on this special order car and it basically came out that they wouldn't take more than $100 off MSRP. Thanks, but no thanks. So, back to the drawing board.
The Corolla is out of the question, can't stand the driving position, only reason we were getting one was because everyone said they were so great. Drove one and hated it, could I live with it? Sure, but I wouldn't be driving it much.
Other than that I'm ready to go back to my junkers, then I don't feel so bad buying and selling every few months, heck, I rarely lose anything on them, at least not more than a few hundred.
Now, on to the money, our bank is financing $6000, the rest is coming in cash, another reason we have to keep this car, can't come up with that kind of cash every day.
Our credit problems started with buying and selling cars every 6 months, I don't want to go back there. We have our own business and hubby is a career gov't firefighter, I think we can afford more than a base model.
Allright, that all said, I have no idea what kind of car I'm buying anymore. Like I said I'm ready to fix this 85 Jeep and drive it to death, although its not the safest thing in the world since it was rolled.
Sorry to hear about you dealership experiences. I guess up in Alaska they don't have tons of dealerships competing against each other so they don't have to be so nice to you. It surprises me that they wouldn't go lower than $100 off MSRP on a Focus.
I was about to congratulate you and mention that if your dealer's parts department carried the Ford Racing line, you could pick up a Torsen limited slip differential for the Focus and have it installed there, which might be a nice thing to have during those Alaskan winters.
There is 2 other ford dealers, but the catch is I would have to have the car serviced by the one that ticked me off. They have this wonderful policy, illegal I'm sure, that if you didn't buy the car there, then the service department bumps you to the bottom of the list.....behind drop ins, appointments, ect, doesn't matter if you have an appointment. Needless to say, we won't be buying a Ford.
The Focus I wanted was a ZTW wagon, fully loaded (leather, heated seats, moonroof) with the Advance Trac and a manual transmission.
Oh well, I will probably go with my second choice which is a Mazda P5. Since my friend works at the Mazda dealer I can get it for $100 over invoice and they have a good service department there. Add to that its $3000 cheaper than the Focus, thus giving us the money to fix our darn driveway so I can actually get my new car down it. Right now its 4x4 only and its even a challange for our Chevy truck.
Window sticker; Maryville, Ohio is where your car was built and Jacksonville the port of distribution to your particular area. Destination charges are averaged. You could have bought your Honda at Maryville and still paid the same destination charge as if you bought it in Florida. : ) Mackabee
Window sticker; Maryville, Ohio is where your car was built and Jacksonville the port of distribution to your particular area. Destination charges are averaged. You could have bought your Honda at Maryville and still paid the same destination charge as if you bought it in Florida. : ) Mackabee
hopefully you will drive it faster than the one I saw on course today AutoX'ing.
I turned a 58.78x to its 1:05.xxx
To be fair, FTD was 52.xxx turned in by a Vette, 03 ZO6. (Well it was a Corvette club event, so if we want to remain invited, we have to let the Vetts win, LOL.)
When I read all the posts on car price negotiating, I am reminded of a quote from an old friend who was a Pipefitters Union business agent in the '60s & 70s. He said "a good negotiator will get the last nickel out of every contract, but a REALLY good negotiator knows which is the LAST nickel.
in STS right now on street tires, so I don't really mind giving up 6 seconds to a Z06 on R compounds 8^)
Well not to mention this is only my 2nd season and I have nowhere near the mods allowed by STS. Only different wheels and tires, the bigger rear bar and a Borla cat back.
Still running on the now 6 year old factory springs and struts.
I'm taking the Evolution school this Friday in STL, so I should make some improvement after that.
Then maybe I'll make more mods to the car.
However, swerving back into the topic, I wonder where the nearest cart dealership is. I've considered a cart for my 13yo step daughter.
True, very true. Unfortunetly my time with my family and friends on the weekends is worth more than aggrevation and time driving around to earn...what was it..."a nickel".
you don't mean to save just a nickel...but then again many people....and HELLO, you know who you are, would waste an entire day or weekend to save just that.....trust me.
Comments
Anybody still seeing alot of '03 Max's still hanging around? The dealer closest to me has sold out...
Regards... Vikd
Are any 2003 automatic Camry LEs made in Japan? Are Japanese-made Toyotas of better quality than American-made ones?
Is an extended warranty useful, or is it just a ploy for the dealer to gain extra money?
I very recently bought a new Camry, and opted for paint & rust proofing, which isn't scheduled to be done till 3 weeks later. Now, I realise that I shouldn't have opted for it. Can I go back to the dealer and "return" it and get a "refund"?
Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
I don't agree with your method of reporting to the manufacturer if no loaner was provided because customer "didn't buy here." What if the manufacturer does not require a loaner car program, and the dealership has one but ONLY offers it to the people who bought there? Telling the manufacturer in that case won't do any good.
This is kind of the same question I asked about a few days ago. The difference being that I would buy elsewhere due to better pricing. Chornton (sorry if I misspelled your username), said basically to shop the better price at the closer dealership (but to buy at the closer dealership).
I think m5power has a legitimate concern. I would be miffed if some jerk got a share of commission off my car. But I agree with the dealership guys, some things are not in my control, it's best to simply let it be.
Mackabee,
Is it just me, or did you confess that your absolute bottom "no haggle" internet price is padded by a few hundred dollars in case someone grinds you? If they don't grind you, does the sale net a few extra hundred dollars or do you give the customer a lowered absolute bottom price?
He hasn't had any problems with his either, which for me personally is unusual with a new car. I almost ALWAYS have to go back multiple times to get little things fixed, or in the case of my 96 Jetta, towed back for major electrical system failures. The Maxima is an utterly flawless car, and one that I will be driving for many, many years.
That said, I can understand holding off if you just bought a house. For about the year after we bought our first house, we ended up pouring so much money into it! Nothing major, but stuff you don't even think about like curtains and lawn care costs an absolute boatload of money. I'd wait a little while, especially if you bought an older house. Six months down the road, you might realize you need a new roof!
Do I do more for my long-term loyal clients than someone new? Of course. Cultivating a relationship with a dealer is worth its weight in gold.
Thank you for your perspective. I guess I was looking at it a little differently. I see the dealership giving loan cars as going above and beyond on service to provide an incentive to earn business. I don't have too much of a problem of them saying "you didn't buy here so you don't get the loan car" because if the manufacturer didn't dictate it, I think it's fair for the dealership to set their rules.
dsattler,
I would think that the service would be nicer if the car was purchased there. Unfortunately I move a lot (just about to settle down for a little bit I think), so this doesn't usually happen. I am probably too picky; want the best price on the car and the best service.
Regardless, I will never return to that dealer because of this incident. The dealer I am currently going to for service is excellent and has treated me very well.
: )
Mackabee
My experience with loaner cars varies. Both the Ford dealer and the VW dealer I work with have relationships with local rental agencies. In the past, they have both given me vouchers for rentals if my car or truck is in the shop.
My Saturn dealer doesn't do loaners or rentals of any sort, even if you did buy the car there. In fact, they have a map that shows how far their shuttle van will go -- I think it's like a 5 or 7 mile radius.
On a related note, my Saturn dealer is quite a distance from where I live, and way out of the way between my home and my work. A new Saturn dealer is opening up later this year that is going to be much more convienent to my house. Would I be inconsiderate to switch my business to them, even though my current dealer has treated me very well?
BINGO .....!
Terry.
Another factor that falls into play here, is being able to "qualify" for any special financing that is going on at the time .. kinda remember, only 40% of the buying market qualifies for all that special financing .. so add an extra $2,500 in a pay-off, add a lower beacon score, then $100 doesn't effect the deal - it's the higher interest rate and Xtra dollars to be financed ~~ the funny part is, there is a lot of folks that drive around or fax 20 dealers looking to save a $100, when they have forgot about that extra $2,000/$4,000 on their part .. unfortunately this common.
Terry.
So, that sent us looking again, I hate car shopping. We thought about a Suburban, but $18k would buy one that was right at its mileage for needing repairs, plus the gas mileage is horrible.
Went to the *cringe* Ford dealer and drove a *double cringe* Focus. Needless to say, we ordered a fully loaded wagon, leather, heated seats, sport package, moonroof, stability control, and a few other things. Yes, I know they drop like a rock when you drive them off the lot, but we don't care, it will be with us until it dies.
I was ready to go buy my Escort back, its sitting on a car lot looking all pretty. That Focus impressed me and that takes a lot.
That was the first and last time I took any of my Ford's to them, which sucked for me because that dealer was within walking distance of my house.
As for the "Internet Fluff" question about "absolute rock bottom price"... Well, I never say my price is set in stone except on certain rare occasions. If I may,I would like to add another Famous:
"Bad Car-Guy Metaphor" TM
to the pile.
Think of best price as a suitcase full of straight pins. (Not the hard kind, the kind with cloth sides) - Trust me, I'm going somewhere here.
Now, asking best price is like asking if you can fit one more pin in the suitcase. (Or if you prefer, how many pins the suitcase can hold). Now, living in a universe of fixed space, logically there MUST be some mathematical point where the suitcase can really and truly not hold ONE MORE PIN. In practice, you'll find you can always fit "just one more". If you take emotions out of it, I can't imagine any situation where a salesmanger wouldn't take off "ONE MORE DOLLAR" to put a deal together. I've seen deals go that really and truly "lose" money, even taking holdback, etc into account just to keep the deal from the competiton. For that reason, I see "Best Price" as a mythical figure. There is no acceptable number at which if the customer signed a document saying "I will buy for one dollar less" a deal would not be done. (If you take an irked sales manager out of the equation) What I quote is a fair, competetive price. I know I'll be shopped. Will someone beat my offer? Probably. That's the whole idea of why any number can be shopped successfully. My goal is to present my offer in a straightforward and honest manner so that if a customer DOES beat my deal by a few hundred bucks, they come back to me for a second chance. There is no number you can throw out there that SOMEONE won't beat just to say they did it. If you put it on a $50 loser, someone will take $100 loser just to get your sale.
Well, I guess I have it coming, go ahead. Flame on.
: )
Mackabee
I was looking for a car that most closely match it for driving position, shifting, and just in general driving. Suprised the heck out of me when it turned out to be the Focus. Now, if I could just get my darn salesman to return my calls.....ugh.
I don't know if they have a support group for what you've got. But there should be one, and you should be in it. I recognize your problem because I've got the same bug.
Anyway, time for an intervention: Don't buy that Focus.
When you say how you're going to keep the Focus "forever", we both know it's unlikely it'll have more than two birthdays at your house... just write down a list of the cars you've bought/sold over the last four years... show me yours, I'll show you mine, it's easy to go through a half dozen cars in three years, isn't it?
Add to that some credit problems in your past, and I'd say: If ya gotta buy new, buy something that REALLY holds its value... if a Focus is OK, how about a Matrix? You'll see more $$ back on that one, and it'll do everythign the Focus wagon will. Or buy used, which I realize is an adventure in Alaska.
Like I said, I've got the car bug as bad as you do, so I sympathize. Your hubby has it too, apparently -- didn't you just ask about a 3/4 ton pickup with the big motor he bought 4 months ago?? Oy vey.
Anyway, think about it. Good luck,
-Mathias
East Lansing, MI
Good points, but overstated a little?
Margin on net shopping is $100? Maybe even even less for a grinder, is my guess. Prob higher for a non-grinder, a non-negotiator. My thought is that the savings is primarily in sidestepping the grinding while still getting a low price. For folks who enjoy the negotiating, I figure the bucks savings is minimal. Even for them, however, it's quicker to find the desired car on the net than by driving (or even calling) here, there, everywhere.
Trade-ins - I do agree. The way I'd put it, if the buyer doesn't know as much about selling his trade as about buying his new car, he's gonna get bit. Not a prob for me the last two cars I bought, though; I was replacing 'totals'. Prior to that, 'twouldn't have been a prob, either; I private sold my used cars. Given the spread on used cars, private selling is the only reasonable way to go, to me.
Financing - I agree again. If the buyer doesn't know what he's doing, he's gonna take a hit on the financing. What worked for me net buying was to request a quote, stating I'd use either my own financing or the dealer financing. In my shopping, many of the netguys offered special financing; and we finalized the price contingent upon that credit deal. Dunno how much sway the dealer has in approving the credit deal, but I'm pretty sure in one of my buys the dealer qualified me for a loan in spite of an ex's junk credit showing up on my credit report.
Financing doesn't really matter, however, if the buyer is honest with himself about the credit he qualifies for and has alternative financing lined up like he should. The dealer holds rate or withholds special financing? The buyer walks to another dealer or uses his own credit.
The cool thing about the net is that the buyer can participate competitively in a competitive market.
There's the 'asking price'
There's the 'liking price'
There's the 'taking price'
Mack and TK's quotes sound like they are in lower range of their 'liking price' but above their 'taking price'.
As a buyer,
Mack's quote sounds like there's no room for negotiation. It's 'no haggle'. I can't tell the tone of TK's.
If Mack's quote isn't low, it's gonna take something special for me to even look twice. He better be closer, have a stellar rep, be nicer, have a scarce color I love, something.
If TK's quote isn't close enough to the low one(s), I'm probably not gonna pester him with a counter unless there's something in his quote e-mail to suggest that he's got room to go lower. If it close enough (Dunno how much is close enough. Within $200, maybe?) and his dealership is near, I'd be replying by phone: "Good deal. Confirm the numbers, and I'll right there."
For me as a buyer, there's
a wishing price
a liking price
a taking price
With the net, there's no need for me to do worse than my liking price.
That said, I'm not as bad as I used to be about buying and selling......let's see, in the past year and a half I've owned a 1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee, lost it, a 1990 Suburban with 161k and a bad engine, trans, and rear end, traded it for the 94 K2500, a 1994 Escort that I sold to make it possible to get a new car with functioning seat belts and 4 doors. Other than that I've got an 85 Jeep Cherokee (does that count?) sitting in the yard for emergencies, it runs, sometimes.
As for selling the 94 K2500, that only came up because it had an electrical problem and was popping fuses left and right. Its fixed and has absolutely no problems, well, other than the HUGE sucking sound that it seems to produce anytime its started. He'll keep it for a while, he usually keeps his trucks at least 2 years. Sometimes longer, he had an 88 F-150, bought new in February of 1988, sold in May of 1997, bought back in October of 1999, sold to my little brother in February of 2001 and he's still driving it.
Now, on to the new car. I doubt it will be a Focus, the ford dealer done ticked me off yesterday. Tried to negotiate price on this special order car and it basically came out that they wouldn't take more than $100 off MSRP. Thanks, but no thanks. So, back to the drawing board.
The Corolla is out of the question, can't stand the driving position, only reason we were getting one was because everyone said they were so great. Drove one and hated it, could I live with it? Sure, but I wouldn't be driving it much.
Other than that I'm ready to go back to my junkers, then I don't feel so bad buying and selling every few months, heck, I rarely lose anything on them, at least not more than a few hundred.
Now, on to the money, our bank is financing $6000, the rest is coming in cash, another reason we have to keep this car, can't come up with that kind of cash every day.
Our credit problems started with buying and selling cars every 6 months, I don't want to go back there. We have our own business and hubby is a career gov't firefighter, I think we can afford more than a base model.
Allright, that all said, I have no idea what kind of car I'm buying anymore. Like I said I'm ready to fix this 85 Jeep and drive it to death, although its not the safest thing in the world since it was rolled.
I was about to congratulate you and mention that if your dealer's parts department carried the Ford Racing line, you could pick up a Torsen limited slip differential for the Focus and have it installed there, which might be a nice thing to have during those Alaskan winters.
The Focus I wanted was a ZTW wagon, fully loaded (leather, heated seats, moonroof) with the Advance Trac and a manual transmission.
Oh well, I will probably go with my second choice which is a Mazda P5. Since my friend works at the Mazda dealer I can get it for $100 over invoice and they have a good service department there. Add to that its $3000 cheaper than the Focus, thus giving us the money to fix our darn driveway so I can actually get my new car down it. Right now its 4x4 only and its even a challange for our Chevy truck.
: )
Mackabee
: )
Mackabee
: )
Mackabee
Did I tell you I bought an MR2?
I turned a 58.78x to its 1:05.xxx
To be fair, FTD was 52.xxx turned in by a Vette, 03 ZO6. (Well it was a Corvette club event, so if we want to remain invited, we have to let the Vetts win, LOL.)
TB
My MR2 will run in stock until about the end of June when it will transform into a CSP killer.
I'll be hunting Z06s then!
Too bad I can't autocross my new (to me) CBR 900 RR....
: )
Mackabee
Well not to mention this is only my 2nd season and I have nowhere near the mods allowed by STS. Only different wheels and tires, the bigger rear bar and a Borla cat back.
Still running on the now 6 year old factory springs and struts.
I'm taking the Evolution school this Friday in STL, so I should make some improvement after that.
Then maybe I'll make more mods to the car.
However, swerving back into the topic, I wonder where the nearest cart dealership is. I've considered a cart for my 13yo step daughter.
TB
$2000 can get you a great entry level race cart.