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Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

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  • beemer4mebeemer4me Member Posts: 42
    Hi,
         Did a phone deal for my brother-in-law for '03 Honda Accord EX sedan for $19.7k and 5 yr loan at 6.25%. The financing was the lowest offered by any dealer as my 'bro had a personal bankruptcy 4 years ago and several "lates" since then, all of which were we were upfront about. We arrived at the dealership, went thru the business with the sales rep and the paperwork was handed over to finance at about 6:30 Pm pacific time. We waited till 8:30 and then the finance guy calls us in and says, "I'm not getting anything back from the banks for your loan, can you get your own financing? If you wanna take the car home tonight, I can write you up for 18% financing?" We protested that we were offered 6.25% over the phone and we called several times to make sure this was possible. He then asks "where were you last friday, were you trying to buy a car?" (I am sure he was speculating that my 'bro was turned down for credit there and he was trying to use this as leverage.)My brother in law was indeed trying to buy a car somewhere else and he let them run his credit but he decided not to buy there. My question is,is it possible for banks to approve auto loans after 5:00 pm when most of them are closed or is the finance guy just trying to run his game on us?
  • rerenov8rrerenov8r Member Posts: 380
    It is just an automated phone response unit. I do not know whether the dealership in question subscribed directly to such a service (most do not...) If the dealer was working working with the manufacturer's credit arm they too are generally available whenever a dealer is open (not quite 24x7, but close).

    The bigger question is whether your bro-in-law CAN get the rate claimed. The bankruptcy {by itself} is NOT a deal killer. What really matters is the REST of his current finances, and odds are the finance office COULD NOT get the info after business hours because that kind of decision WILL GENERALLY NOT be made without some human intervention -- the "loan software" may or may not have allowances for the details of your bro-in-law's situation. The specifics are obvious stuff: own or rent, work history, total debt, percentage of debt to income. Yes, all that info is SUPPOSED to get into a FICO score, but the BANKRUPTCY flag will kick the application to a desk...

    My gut feeling is that IF things are in order HE MIGHT have a shot at 6.25% but he'll probably need 20% down AND have good ratios ( total consumer debt less than 30% of income, housing payments under 36%).

    I would suggest he shop a few credit unions, if there is an "employer focused" one he is eligible for they tend to have the best rates, generally beating out the 'community' credit unions & definitely better than banks (which generally are better than pure finance companies...). Unfortunately the manufacturer credit arms are NOT very eager to get the riskier loans, and the 18% rate is standard for "bad credit/no credit" deals.

    Good Luck!
  • zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    and 6.25% sounds a little too good to be true only 4 years after a BK with lates in the middle, whether he was "up front" about the lates or not (as if they wouldn't know as soon as they pulled a bureau).

    There is absolutely no relation between what someone says over the phone and what a bank will actually do, combined with the magic a good F&I person can work for you.

    DCC and Ford will step up all day long on something like this, but Honda doesn't really play the B and C tier stuff.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I'm sure DC and Ford employs a lot of repossers too.

    A four year old BK with slow pays afterwards?

    Anyone feel like financing this guy??
  • blh7068blh7068 Member Posts: 375
    This may have been asked/discussed before...

    A co-worker of mine just bought an 04 Grand Prix. He normally takes me with him when he purchases (trades about every 18-24 mos). We researched possible trade in values for his 02 Grand Am GT...and came up with a trade value around 10k. I saw his paperwork and the stated price of the new car was MSRP...but they(i'm guessing based on quick trade research) overallowed his trade with a value of 14.1. Why do dealers do this? Does juggling the numbers this way give the salesperson a higher commission? Curious.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    He was probably upside down with his trade...owed more than it was worth so they inflated it's value rather than discount the new car.

    A person who trades that often should buy cars that don't depreciate like a rock!
  • blh7068blh7068 Member Posts: 375
    Actually...just the opposite. Car he was trading
    was 100% paid for(he's single-socks away the $$).

    Any other reasons?
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Unless they were just trying to "show" more for the trade or something.

    I guess the only number that really matters is the difference figure.

    He must really like Pontiacs if he's willing to suffer the horrific depreciation they suffer.
  • zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    been inflated, considering there was no payoff.

    In some states, it's illegal to show negative equity (or basically illegal to finance negative equity, so it can't show up on a contract), so if a car is worth $10, but there's a $12K payoff, and you're buying the new car for $20K, the new car goes to $23K, the trade goes to $13K and the buyer now has $1K "equity", although nothing, including trade difference or sales tax, has really changed.
  • vikdvikd Member Posts: 187
    ..."less time to burn up gasoline driving up and down mountains"... oh man, that is just spot on! LOL!!!
        ...not sure why there would be fuel consumption issues... ;-)

    Regards... Vikd
  • lagitanelagitane Member Posts: 25
    Ok, Ok. I finally got what the 10K loss was all about (per 'bigorange30'). You are right. I paid 19K something for the V-6, w/dealer add ons and finance charges, it was closer to $24K. Then I turn around and trade the V-6 4 months later for the V-8. Got 18K in trade for the V-6, however. Not too bad, is it? Ended up paying 22,800 for the V-8, $23k something with finance and dealer add ons. Not terrible, but you are right, I took a big hit, that's not even considering the $3800 I got in trade for my 4 banger during the first dea. Just hadn't looked at it this way before. Just looked at the purchase price.

    Seems like, the most financially smart thing to do now is to keep the V-8. It'll better trade in value in two or three or even 6 years, or I can trade it myself. (By the way, where do I go to get someone to sell this on consignment, you mean like a car dealer?? I didn't know they did that??)Just gonna really hurt my lifestyle. I mean, I'm not a big spender, but I do like to buy clothes, take vacations, buy a new piece of furniture or something to fix up the house up now and then. That is completely out now. For 6 years, it is gonna be "dullsville". Hell, I'm already bored in this podunk town where I work. Getting out to the City or up into the mountains once a month was what kept me sane.

    I'm too bloody burned out to work a second job. I'm putting in 50 hrs a week as it is. Only solution is to try to find some private therapy work somewhere. If I could find just one or two private pay Clts for a Saturday or a Friday night (preferably), I could have a life. Its finding them that is the hard part. Have to be careful as I can't take Clts away from the company I work for. I'll figure out something. Who knows, I could get into an avocation that may turn out to be more rewarding and satisfying than what I'm doing now.

    Most of you say, keep this thing. I think that is what I'll do. Gonna be tough until I find another income, but I can squeek by somehow, provided I don't have any major emergencies, then its back to credit card debt. I only hope that I don't forget this lesson anytime soon. It has been, and will continue to be a very costly mistake for many years.

    Thanks for your help, all of you. Wish this forum had been here before I went out and did this, but it wasn't. Good forum. Good feedback.
  • thelthel Member Posts: 767
    As John McLaughlin would say, "Next issue!"
  • zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    "By the way, where do I go to get someone to sell this on consignment, you mean like a car dealer?? I didn't know they did that??"

    Many dealers will let you consign a vehicle on their lot, with them getting a fee for selling it for you, if you wanted to sell it. In somes ways, depending on your area, it can be easier to sell that way than private party.

    That is, if you want to sell it.
  • dill6dill6 Member Posts: 120
    I have an agreement to buy a car from a private party in another state 600 miles away. The seller has a loan, and says the lender only wants a check from him, the borrower - so I should show up with a certified check made out to him, and trust him to pay off the loan and have the title sent to me at my home.

    Is this usual? He claims to be a professional, on staff at a major hospital, which I suppose I could verify, but haven't yet.

    I'm wondering if dealers ever act as intermediaries in private party transactions - kind of like an escrow company, taking the money and assuring the transfer to the lender and delivery of title. Might a dealer also perform an inspection of the vehicle?

    If so, what the going rate for such a service? Or am I being paranoid - if I can verify the seller's employment, maybe even run a credit check, maybe I should just trust him?
  • thelthel Member Posts: 767
    I don't see the incentive for a dealer to get into this type of a transaction. Maybe some of the sales pros here have heard of this but I doubt it.

    Personally, I would not give anyone money for a car until I get either a title or some paperwork from the seller's bank.
  • yamanyaman Member Posts: 113
    I would never give someone a check and than "hope" they remember to send me the title.Tell the guy to pay off the bank and have clear title.
  • rivertownrivertown Member Posts: 928
    If this guy's as substantial as you're given to believe he is, he shouldn't have any trouble paying off that loan (with a bridge loan even) and having a title to hand you.

    P.S. Have the car checked out, too.
  • zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    and it's usually only done when a dealer doesn't want the trade, but the owner (buying a car from the dealer) can sell it private party. I've done a few of these, but I generally disliked it, because it tanked my F&I average (no chance for even a dime on the transaction and I usually ended up hounding the other buyer or the store's customer for additional info to get everything handled).
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,736
    I don't understand why you have to write the check to HIM. Why can't you write it to the holder of the title on his behalf. I really have no idea if this will even make the deal any more solid for you, but, from where i'm standing, it looks like you would have ZERO recourse if you wrote it directly to him.

    My question is, can dill6 write the check to the title holder and have the title released to him? Isn't this what dealers do? When they pay off my loan on a trade, the title certainly doesn't come to me, it goes straight to them. So why can't an individual do that? Just need that power of attorney form, correct?

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • dill6dill6 Member Posts: 120
    You all confirm my gut feeling that his proposal is sketchy, at best. There's probably a reasonable way to do this but its beginning to feel like it isn't worth the trouble.

    Since this whole deal is about a toy, not an necessity, I think I'll just wait until I find the right deal here at home and keep it simple.

    Thanks for the advice!
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Member Posts: 9,332
    ..... He has a pay-off to a lender, no biggie .. he may feel a little uncomfortable that the "pay-off" is less than the sale price, again no biggie .. just make sure that he understands that YOU understand that, again no biggie ~ you can make the check out to both him, and the lender .. and both can sign off - Easy.!

                        Terry.
  • dagpotterdagpotter Member Posts: 71
    May be a stupid question. I am looking at buying a Subaru. Dealer is primarily a dodge dealer. Do I assume that the finanacing is Subaru provided, or will I go through Chrysler? I bought a Dodge at a primarily a Ford dealer and got Ford Credit finanacing. If I go through Chrysler would it be possible to get 0.0% on the Subie, even though technically the lowest rate offered is 3.49%?

    Thanks...Dag.
  • landru2landru2 Member Posts: 638
    Are you talking about new or used cars?

    Subvented rates (like 0%) are only available on certain new cars financed through the manufacturers finance arm. So, no, if Chrysler offers 0% on some of its products you will not be able to finance a Subaru at this rate.

    On your Dodge, you didn't get a subvented rate either. I'd bet that Ford Credit accepted your credit where others wouldn't.
  • dagpotterdagpotter Member Posts: 71
    No...they just beat my credit union at that time. Wan't looking for a subverted rate at that time...was years before the current rate mania.
  • alfoxalfox Member Posts: 708
    Where do you live? Around here (Eastern MA) Subaru is advertizing 0% and rebates on all models.
  • landru2landru2 Member Posts: 638
    Gotcha. Must've been a while ago. In my neck of the woods Ford Credit usually can't come within 2% of regular bank rates.
  • scottdudescottdude Member Posts: 177
    Every now and then I'll see or hear a dealer ad that says something like "$8,000 guaranteed for your trade!!". Sometimes it will be $5, 6 or 7 thousand.

    I'm assuming that the gimmick in these offers is that the dealer sells the car at full sticker. But in my case, where my trade is valued by KBB at around $4,500, this could be a great deal.

    Is there another catch that I'm missing with these high trade ad offers?
  • dagpotterdagpotter Member Posts: 71
    No, Northern VA. No rebates, although they have 0.0% for two years.
  • zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    there's a dealer in Cherry Hill, NJ that really overuses the $8,000 for your trade thing. The same dealer offers "NO CREDIT CHECKS", but the fine print on the bottom of the TV screen says "WITH 80% CASH DOWN".

    Heck, I'LL finance someone who has 80% cash down !! If they don't make their payments, I'm making money on the 20% they still owe versus the actual value of the car (more than 20%!).
  • peeetepeeete Member Posts: 136
    I just saw the $8000 for any trade and no credit check gimmick for the first time in Westchester. I guess dealers persist in thinking cistomers are morons. I guess its the 2% who beleive it that they are trying to attract.
  • landru2landru2 Member Posts: 638
    The number of morons is much higher than 2%.
  • scottdudescottdude Member Posts: 177
    In the ad I saw, there was no small print saying anything about the down payment. It did say that the offer could not be combined with others, though.

    Any dealers here who are willing to divulge what the catch is with this offer?
  • sonjaabsonjaab Member Posts: 1,057
    That screamer dealers name wouldn't start with a K
    would it ? If it is I have seen their ads!..LOL

    Hows your m/c running? Gettin' your knees in the breeze lately?.......................geo
  • xccoachlouxccoachlou Member Posts: 245
    Is it standard practice, when one submits an e-mail request asking if a particular make/model/trim is in stock, listing preferred colors and transmissions, to receive an e-mail in effect saying, "Call me!". You have my e-mail and my phone number where I can be reached. A simple "yes, we have it." or "no, we don't" would suffice.

    Here's my theory. If you can't be bothered to look that up and respond in kind to an e-mail message, why should I bother calling you?

    Also, since I am venting tonight, if you're going to have an internet page, keep it up date. Don't have "Internet Specials" that expired on 3/31/03 still up in late May. What kind of image is that presenting to customers?

    'Nuff Said.

    - Lou
  • peeetepeeete Member Posts: 136
    I think Lou has hit the nail on the head. There is criticism of buyers by some dealers that they misuse the internet to grind down the price. Can you really blame them?

    I cant tell you how many times I have emailed a very specific request - model, options, color to a dealer, with a request to contact me by email, and the resonse I get is a canned "call me" response. Gotta tell you salespeople - my time is just as valuable as yours, and I find it unprofessional and rude when I get that kind of response. I took the time, so should YOU.

    As a result, buyers have to resort to all sorts of tricks. We can discuss this ad nauseum, but the bottom line is that the dealer should listen to the buyers needs, and respond accordingly.

    Lou is also right about the out of date info, and the "were working on current specials" garbage. I also love the "were working hard to get our inventory on the web." Dudes, I saw the same line a year ago. Just take that section of the site off of you dont want to do it. Lastly, I love the listing of cars, with the price as "contact us." Guys, were on Edmunds, MSRP is hardly a secret! Make the customer WANT to stay on your site. The longer they do, the more likely you get a solid lead!

    Oh, btw I love the options description of power steering and brakes, but no data on what packages the car has. Lots of dealers can do it, why dont you lazy guys. It isnt a teaser, its a turn-off!
  • zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    Cherry Hill Triplex....

    No riding all week, raining steadily, and Bridgestone BT010s are NOT rain tires. I don't own a rain suit - not that dedicated. People REALLY can't see bikes in the rain, another thought.

    Hopefully, we'll get some breaks - I'm itching to do a radical (no further explanation) ride around Philly - neat loop, if you take a few exits - there's no true "loop" like in many cities.

    (Can't wait to get back to Texas.....)
  • xccoachlouxccoachlou Member Posts: 245
    Is it that much work to list the car's transmission on the web site? You know sometimes, with added options and different trim lines, it's not that easy to tell if a particular car is an automatic or manual. It's not that hard to include that information on the web page, is it?

    I didn't even ask this dealer about price. I was on Edmund's and putting together the options I wanted. The "pop-up" appeared, and I filled out the information asking specifically about the car, trim, and two colors. I received a canned 'Call us' response.

    I guess what I'm saying is this:

    1) Make your site easy to navigate. Let people sort the cars by either color, trim, transmission, price, etc. If you're going to include photos, at least make them of the current year's model, and the right color. Don't show a red one when the car I've clicked on is blue. Also, make the photos an option. Not everyone has a cable modem at home.

    2) Be consistent. If a car's color is "pacifica blue pearl" don't have it appear as "reddish-blue" or blue.

    3) Keep it up to date. I am sure there are security reasons for not making inventory a "live" item. However, it should be updated at least weekly, if for no other reason than to reflect newly arrived merchandise.

    4) When you advertise "lowest prices on the internet", please don't be shocked when a lower price than you have advertised is mentioned. It's your slogan.

    Well enough venting for one night...

    - Lou
  • estoesto Member Posts: 136
    Can someone in the know tell me if what I'm seeing is for real? A dealer here in Portland OR has been running an ad stating "all 20 new 2003 Ford Focus' at $5500 off msrp". After poking around, I saw that carsdirect shows a $3000 customer rebate, and $1000 "bonus cash". That makes up $4000 of the $5500. There's another $1000 in the difference between msrp and invoice. So that adds up to $5000. Can someone tell me where the other $500 is coming from? I can't believe this dealer is willing to lose $500 on 20 cars. Is there some more dealer cash that carsdirect isn't showing? Maybe for Blue Oval dealers? Thanks for any illumination on this.

    Erik
  • crkeehncrkeehn Member Posts: 513
    Why the car dealer would want to have you contact them by phone rather than email. There is a very good possibility that they might not have the exact vehicle you are looking for, in stock. Rather than go through a back and forth "I don't have that car, will another do?" it is much quicker for both the dealer and yourself to discuss the matter and resolve differences in real time.
  • bigorange30bigorange30 Member Posts: 1,091
    If we were open to other vehicles, we would just come to the lot and look them over. If we email to ask the availability of a specifcially dressed car, we are not interested in others. Just answer the question please. We don't want to be talked into another vehicle.
  • alfoxalfox Member Posts: 708
    but it really isn't hard for an I-net salesperson to type something helpful, like "I have three almost like you are seeking. Two have all the right equipment but are not cat fur yellow (puce and mauve), and the third is all you want, but also has the motorized bicycle lift. Give me a call and we'll see if we can work out the differences."

    That way the customer knows what he's dealing with, and can decide to call or not with some knowledge. Besides, who would want a car without a motorized bicycle lift?
  • masspectormasspector Member Posts: 509
    It has been my experience that carsdirect does not show you all of the factory to dealer incentive money. On a QX4 last year they showed a price of $1000 below invoice. The true factory to dealer incentive was $2000 which dealers were willing to give all of the $2000. Local ads had the same QX4 listed $1000 less than CD.

    I can assure you the dealer is not going to lose $500. The money is coming from somewhere. What does it really matter? If you want a focus go buy it from them.
  • zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    DeSimone Dodge/Jeep in Philly had a HUGE ad in this Sunday's paper that was "misleading", to be nice.

    It showed a 2003 Dodge Durango SXT 4x4, MSRP of $30,525, "yours for only $17,184 or $179 a month.

    Huh? I read the fine print. Discount of $1871 (OK, that works). Lease cash/rebate of $4,500 (OK, makes sense), $1000 lease loyalty cash (wait 'til the punchline), $500 Farm Bureau rebate (?....), $750 Military Personnel Incentive, and $3,990 your cash or trade equity.

    So what's the chance that someone is active-duty military, a Farm Bureau member and coming off a DaimlerChrysler lease (the only way to get lease loyalty cash)....all at the same time?

    As a former car biz guy, it's dealers like this who give the whole car business a black eye.
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Member Posts: 9,332
    ..... Look at the super fine print .. I will bet it's a 60/66 month lease ..

                      Terry.
  • zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    Left that part out, hoping no one seriously looked at this deal!!

    You up here this week? Buy you a burger and a brewski!
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Trouble is, it's impossible to keep the information updated quickly.

    A high volume dealer can sell 30 used cars in a weekend. The hot sellers go quickly. The buyer who takes the inititive to pick up the phone or, better yet, come in will have the best chances.

    The guy sitting at a keyboard will often find the car he's looking for is gone.
  • peeetepeeete Member Posts: 136
    Yes this is the new scam. The impossibly low price with all the deductions listed. Sholz in White Plains had a similar ad. They included in their discounts a GM loyalty discount, AND a "non-GM owner discount." HOW CAN YOU BE BOTH!

    They think because they itemize all the "discounts" that people won't see it.

    Another example of why car dealers are PATHETIC and buyers do what they do. Dont you guys get it?
  • zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    I think this is uncalled for:

    "Another example of why car dealers are PATHETIC and buyers do what they do"

    You don't have any of the PATHETIC car biz people here on Edmunds, giving their free time to help consumers and hopefully better the car business, as a whole.

    Screamer ads get people in - period. I don't agree with them, but from a strictly advertising perspective, they work. People, in many cases, are like cattle going for feed - ever seen that? Just a long line of one cow following another.

    When people stop behaving like cattle, trying to outsmart themselves by not being smart, doing "real" research instead of reading "The World According To A Washed Up Car Guy Who Couldn't Sell 10 Units a Month So They Whacked Him", committing to a deal and making it happen, nothing's going to change.

    It's a double-edged sword - as long as customers try to outsmart themselves, there'll be [non-permissible content removed] dealers to take advantage of them.

    "reading "The World According To A Washed Up Car Guy Who Couldn't Sell 10 Units a Month So They Whacked Him"....I just made that up - I'll have to use that again.
  • rivertownrivertown Member Posts: 928
    Some dealers just don't do net very well, in my experience (questions, evasions, floor sales hooey, etc.). Others really do net very well.

    Vague websites and evasive responses to quote requests? Move on. Those dealers just aren't seriously interested in net customers. It doesn't take genius to maintain a website.

    FWIW, once you find a dealer who does net, I think the key to successful net shopping is the buyer's readiness to buy and a specific quote request made through the dealer's website. Reading the netsalesguy's complaints about vague and frivolous quote requests, I get it.
  • abtsellerabtseller Member Posts: 291
    net quote, make sure you take it to every screamer ad dealer in a tri-state area to make sure you saved the last $50, right river.

    ;-)

    Ed
This discussion has been closed.