that's why, with EVERY tent sale I've ever been a part of, we always contract at the dealership - the salesman, car and buyer go to the dealership - that's where the detail guys are, that's where the finance guy's computer is, and the "sale" actually took place at the dealership, because that's where the contracts were signed.
Geo - good deal on the licensing - the old 750-4 is a cool bike. It's gorgeous here today, and I'm slammed with reports that'll take me until 5-6:00 - after that, though, I'm bustin' bugs!
I have been watching the market for the past three years. I know that the vehicle I am after is still not 'stacking up' at many dealers, but the rule is no longer MSRP.
There is a 4k spread from invoice to MSRP on the MDX (there I said it...) but I am more than willing to accept that dealers want to make at least $1500 on 'em.
What I cannot fathom is why some dealers have not even bothered to return an email. I have sent 'em from my "official" 'real name at internet provider I have to pay' address (as opposed to junk/spam name at free mail server).
There are dealers in some areas with 40 or more units listed in stock, not too surprisingly those folks have responded with the best deals. I am willing to accept a price as much $500 higher than those, but NOT MSRP...
The threads in "Acura MDX What did you pay" here on Edmunds & the many threads on the forum acuramdxDOTorg all suggest that there are MANY dealers who do discount from MSRP and/or throw in MANY DIOs.
The reality is the MDX has been out for a long THREE years. There have been NO visual changes. There are now SEVERAL competing vehicles than offer MANY of the same features & attributes. There is STRONG reason to believe the 2004s will offer a TWEAKED visual presentation AND several features that are available in competiors and/or OTHER Honda products.
..... >> .. The majority of internet inquiries are worthless .. << ..
The internet is a wonderful "world changing" history making system .. hey, look how much fun Saddams son had with it .l.o.l..
But along with it comes some problems .. I can't speak for Isell's store, but I can speak for some of the dealers and that's a Bunch .. Email/fax is a good way to get a price -IF- they are sent correctly.
"I feel", that when someone sends a email/fax request nowadays, they "invision" a salesperson getting the info, all the salesmen dropping Whatever they are doing and running all over the dealership, sales Mgr's getting off their phones, the Dealer principle barking orders and secretaries stop taking their lunch breaks and calling the factory .. .. well maybe the first week or so 5 years ago or something, but not now.
Most dealers now have a hard time getting a "dedicated" salesperson to do it on a full time basis .. and even the "full timers" seem to only last a few months, then back on the floor. The biggest problem is the LACK of information .. Imagine, 30/40++ emails/fax a day (some from 300 miles away) that read like this:
We are interested in a 2003 GMC Yukon 4x4 in pewter only .. we want the sunroof and the entertainment system .. we know the MSRP is $45,207 and the invoice is $38,571.34, we know that sales are down and we will offer you $38,6, respond quickly because we are buying a vehicle tommorow.
First off, the salesperson doesn't know if it's a SLT or a SLE, XL, 1/2 ton or 3/4 ton, what are the different option groups, what engine, etc, etc. No name, no address, no phone number .. oh golly ghee, let's spend a whole lot of time with this one .. - NOT- .. doesn't make for a happy start and it ends up in the circular file.
I'm not picking on anybody, but think about .. is this a 28 year old, coming from a 3 year old Focus and he owes $9,5 on a $5,000 vehicle - and you Know, he's on a payment ... is this a 12 year old, still on a bike and loves the info sources .. is this a 44 year old thats making a stupid offer on a $40,000 investment because he been reading the "dumb and the blind" ...
With as many dealers stores that I have been in, and read "hundreds" of "junk mail" it's no wonder that folks drop posts here and say "Hey, they never emailed/faxed me back, I musta Shot gunned out 35 and only got back 2 responses, they must not want my biz .. .. Listen to yourself.!
Your practical experience seems to indicate otherwise. Plus, you stated they are in short supply in your area. I don't think they will sell to you for $2K off sticker, if they can sell all they have for MSRP or slightly less.
I've found that if you don't shotgun and are up front and REALISTIC about what you are looking for and give them a number where they can contact you back if need be that the internet experience can greatly enhance the buying process.
I've purchased a Sorento and leased a Pilot this way in the last year and found it's made things a lot easier.
That being said I see exactly what you are saying in having to separate the wheat (ready to buy) from the chaff (everyone else).
.... I dunno what a particular store might sell one for .. but as it stands, they are pulling $34/$36 at the auctions, depending on the miles and the options .. that's Strong, reeeal strong.
well, if the myth has been shattered why are you still "threatening" to buy one?
also remember....some of the biggest lies ever told are about the price somebody claims they paid for a vehicle. It's right up there with the "check is in the mail"
I am also looking for a good deal on a G35 coupe. These are also going for MSRP and more. I am waiting until the '04's come and thinking the '03's may then be discounted or that the '04's may some added options or the bugs worked out but I hear they are likely to be higher priced so that may allow the '03 to stay at MSRP.
"I am giving 'em PLENTY of room to work with -- I am being 100% HONEST that I have offers from other dealers that are about $2k off MSRP, but STILL more than $1500 OVER invoice"
Whats the big deal? Are you just venting because some dealers have not contacted you back? It looks like you already have a good offer, so why not buy the thing already? I just checked and they are about $500 over MSRP in my area.
I have the paper work all set to go to fax my deposit. I have the trucking info all set up. I am just wondering why dealers 800 miles away are more willing to do business this way than ones right up the street.
800 miles away is a different market. There may be 5-10 Acura dealers in the area and it's more competitive. Is the local guy the only one in town?? Are MDX's hot where you live?? Does the dealer feel like holding on to his inventory until it rusts away??
You have an offer for $2K under 800 miles away. It's going to cost you X dollars to get it (travel/transport). You want the local guy to match/beat that. Really, he only has to hit appx $1500-$1600 off MSRP to match.
Remember it's his car and if he wants a higher price that's his decision.
You know, maybe the dealer 800 miles away lowballed you. Knowing you will be shopping his price near the dealers around your area. Ever think about that?
I have some experience with this particular vehicle since I just helped a relative break her 3-yr lease before its expiration on a '01 MDX Touring with 42k miles in exchange for a new lease on a '03 Acura TL base model.
Won't go into personal details why this deal was necessary at this time; suffice it to say that the resale market for '01 MDXs is so strong that there was equity in her trade-in even with the remaining lease payments (without interest) plus the pay-off thru AHFC. This equity was used by the dealer to take the new TL lease well below the factory subvented $329/mo/39 mo/12k mile/yr lease deal currently advertised by Acura.
We considered a private MDX sale after a buy-off but the dealer would realize more profit with a CPO sticker on the windshield and it turned out he gave us enough offset towards the TL that it wasn't worth the hassle of pay-off/advertise/ropeoffthehordes to do the deal privately.
Dealer said after a detail he'd get $30-32k for this '01 MDX Touring even with the 42k miles. This model came out late in 2000 so the owners with typical 3-yr leases haven't brought them back in yet - and the MSRP has gone up about 10% (?) in the last few years. The projected residuals from 2.5 years ago are turning out to be low vs. Real Life and dealers love to see these units for resale - they have buyers waiting in many locations.
But, back on point, with lots of Acura dealers in my area, $1500-2000 off on a new MDX is easy to find; once the '04s are announced come October a better deal on '03s will probably develop.
Bottom line for my relative is a new TL with $0 drive-off beyond first month's payment, a new 4yr/50k warranty, better mpg, and - a monthly payment about 40% less. Whatta country!
Take your best quote (+ cost of transporting from dealer 800 miles away) to the dealer that you want to get service from. See if he can match that price. If he won't, walk out. Its as simple as that. Don't allow a lot of hem hawing around. Either they can match the price or they can't.
I know it is different market. It may very well be that $600 I'll have to pay to have it trucked up here STILL means that it is a better deal "down there" than "up here".
I can live with that.
I just don't see why folks go through the trouble of setting up their "web accounts" with Corporate and then ignore emails.
If I had they TIME to call, I might, but then I'd be accused of not COMING IN TO the store.
If I came INTO THE STORE then I'd be accused of "wasting THEIR time" -- golly when I DID stop in the store it was NOT like there were lines of folks dying to throw money at the dealers. I didn't see any "market value adjustment stickers" "special gloss treatments" tacked on either.
I gotta believe that the dealers KNOW that MSRP has cracked, I have gotten response telling me about "free washes for our custumers" -- two thousand buys an awful lot of detailing...(not to mention that some dealers in my marketplace have DROPPED that freebie, cause it was more hassle).
... l.o.l... All do respect BO, but to ask a dealer to match a price from a dealer 800 miles away might be a 2 second discussion, and perhaps Not to his/her benefit .. they will just say "go get it" .. for as long as you have been dropping posts here, you should know that geographic area's and distance can make a big difference in a price - if someone is ambitious enough, got the time, then distance is not a big thing and God bless them for it ..
...be fun, kinda like a poker game where you keep getting all the best cards.
By the number of uppercase words in your posts, looks like your blood pressure is taking the hit and that's a shame.
Emails to internet dealer reps didn't work for me either this time around so I punted back to faxes - which worked a heckuva lot better. I guess it's that perceptual problem that men are known to have - it's only real if they can touch it.
Emails are Ether; Faxes are Real...because somebody can take it off the machine and show it to the SM and he can scribble numbers on it and then tell the rep to refax it back. You know...real manly stuff!
Good luck with your MDX - they are excellent vehicles.
no salesperson is going to think you wasted their time for going in with a reasonable offer. Just go in with an offer.
You don't have a deal with any dealers 800 miles away, you have prospective deals. Get there and sign on the bottom line - then you have a deal. Wanna bet the $2k dissappears before that happens?
The car is worth what someone will pay for it, and these cars aren't sitting around long on the lots @MSRP+.
Lately I have really busy at work. I haven't had so much going on in a long time. Not that business has really picked-up so much that projects that had been 'delayed' or scaled back due to the CRAPPY economy have been sitting around undone for so long that FINALLY at least parts of several of 'em have been greenlighted.
That means I am putting in a ton of hours. It means, like a said up the thread a bit, that the TOP reason I am using the 'net to try and do a deal is TIME savings. I would think that the effort involved on the part of the "internet guy" is also darned minimal. It is this "midday between tasks" kinda thing just like I'm doing now.
How many customers stop into a dealer on a weekday afternoon?
However, what does it hurt to see if the local guy wants the sale at that price? That way, at least you gave him a shot. When you take it back there for service, it might matter that you gave them a shot at the deal. They might be nicer to you.
..... ALWAYS give the shot to the dealer that will be doing your service work, in my stupid, humble opinion that alone is worth $150/$200 .. hey, if they are hundreds or thousands away it's time for a road trip .l.o.l..
Call them and get the dayshift sales manager's name and the fax number in the Finance office so your note doesn't get lost somewhere.
Write the following fax letter:
"Dear SM at XXXX Acura- I want to purchase a new 2003 MDX base/touring/nav with exterior color xxxx and interior color xxxx the week of June 2nd. Additional options are to be _______________.
I will finance this purchase myself or thru your most competitive offer. I believe my credit is fair/good/excellent and the last FICO report placed me at #xxx but you're more than welcome to check my current credit status when I stop by after receiving your response.
I do (do not) have a trade-in and here's a very brief description ________________________________________________________________.
If your trade-in offer is reasonable I would like to save time and trouble by accepting it; if not, I'll do a private sale and we can focus on your one-shot, competitive price for the MDX by itself.
My contact number during the day is xxx-xxxx and at home it's xxx-xxxx. My return fax is xxx-xxxx.
I don't want to spend forever shopping around so I have selected just four (4) other Acura dealers to receive this fax. Thanks for you time and I hope we can agree on a deal in my delivery timeframe.
Sincerely, John Doe"
I got a dollar with your name on it that sez you get 4 replies, via return fax or phone, within a business day. After all, with a PC you can send emails as a fax format so the time spent is the same once you get the five names and five fax tele numbers.
We have an Acura store and I just called over to see what the MDX's are doing. MSRP. They get 20 per month and they sell more than that every month...
So I ask, Why would a retailer discount this vehicle?
no tactics, like out posters wants to belive. Its called supply and demand.
Also....I bet the dealer 800 miles away changes things once the customer actually gets there. Does anyone think that if they hi-jack the price after the guy travels 800 miles he is going to leave without buying it??? Even if he doesnt take the bump, the dealer really isnt losing anything..somebody else will walk in and gladly pay MSRP in no time.
BTW: Fax orders without a specific offer go in the trash at many dealership. No dealer needs to bid for an MDX sale.
why not get the rig yourself? Make it a two or three days mini vacation - you'll spend less than $600, unless your wife is like mine and has to stop in every antique and hobby store on the way...
Time savings is substanstial. I can read through emails and send off replies while I between tasks at work, in my home office, in a hotel room, at home. Sure beats spending MY nights/weekends around the dealer store.
Picking it up myslef was my first choice too, which is why I even considered getting it out of state. But, work is unrelenting and I would have to "red-eye" the whole trip fly down one day and drive back the same. Too crazy.
And before anybody asks, driving my own brand new, purchased-at-a-discount vehicle WOULD be time better spent than sweating in the 'salesbooth'.
As to demand differences, I recognize that such differences exist. I also know that NOT all units are pre-sold like they were months ago. I know that MOST dealers are ordering units without deposits. It is my guess that buyer demand shifts more quickly than dealers react. I am anticipating that that there will be unsold units all over the place once the 2004s (with their improvements) hit the market, but I'd rather get one now to use all summer.
The "market value" question is interesting, as I would think that the only way direction that this will shift is down. That being the case I can fully understand how they'd want a deposit. I they believe that the market will not decline you'd think they would still be eager to tell me how great a buying experience they could promise or SOMETHING to ensure that I will not even consider other stores. Too many dealers have not responded, that just does not seem like rational market making behavior. None of the dealers who I've been in contact with have suggested that they would have to order the vehicle or that it would be impossible to get it in a timely fashion. They just do not seem to be seriously 'dealing'. I have not gotten a "take it or leave" price from any either.
What happens if you get up there and the deal evaporates? There could be some kind of fee not yet disclosed. There is probably some option this one doesn't have that would cost $1K or so to add. They bet you won't travel 800 miles and not buy it. Having it delivered could be trouble as well. It could get there and might be the exact one you thought. Not the right interior color or some option left off. Will you then return it? Like I said, go to the local dealer and see if he will match the deal. Be ready to show him this (800 mile away) offer in writing.
The vehicle is only available in four trim levels. Nothing that can "left off" from the factory. Similarly the color combinations are pretty limited.
I'll fax 'em my deposit when they fax me the contract. I'll send them the check by registered express mail and they'll return the title to me. Not too much different than me being there. If I got really paranoid I could involve an automotive escrow service. I also have a cousin who lives near the selling dealer.
Not much to go wrong. Lots of folks have reported doing the same. If more folks thought like me and less like you the process of finding and getting cars on the 'net would be MUCH simpler.
...the same 8 MDX's have been sitting out front of the local Acura store here for going on 3 weeks now. I live in the NW where everybody drives these types of vehicles. I think competition is starting to step up to the plate...at least here...
See, that news travels fast on the web. I wonder how far you are from audi8q's Acura store?
I have seen the same thing happening. I am not completely delusional. As I said I have been watching these things since they came out. Two of the stores I store I stopped by had the EXACT trim level and color combo I wanted, but they were already spoken for.
I may just wait a while longer, or do the long distance deal. I just can't decide
...to someone like Audia that does this for a living (which I don't), I bet you can do a lot better than a MDX at sticker at month's end, quarter's end, slow sales week, etc.
What's crucial is that you bargain when you don't need the vehicle right away - I believe that's a primary factor. The dealer might be able to move his MDXs at sticker - but he also wants to move them quickly. If you're a buyer with OK credit and you're ready to pull the trigger the last day of a quarter or fiscal year, you are more in the driver's seat.
I helped arrange the purchase of an Odyssey EX-L not long ago a year for my wife's girlfriend when everybody said sticker or no deal - wrong.
Now there obviously are some vehicles that ain't moving over the curb for a buck under sticker or even worse. Will your negotiating leverage be better when the 2004 MDXs are announced in 5 months? Only time will tell - and you might want the newer model anyway.
On the TL lease just concluded, three of the Acura dealers bidding came back to me and said, very nicely, "hey...that's a lowball offer, we know the SM behind it, you'll never take delivery without a bump." Wrong.
In fact, that's the only way I know of to positively determine if you're getting a good deal - when one or more other dealers offering the same exact configuration tell you that you'll never take delivery without a bump at the last second. If there is such a bump, I agree with the pros that say take a hike - and don't reward unethical behavior of any type with a sale.
I also disagree with the "fax in the can" comment. I sent out 8 faxes and got fax-back responses to four and telephone responses to the other four. Now, not every response was wonderful, but at least they didn't get trashed.
...just because the dealer near me seems to have a surplus of the trucks right now, does not necessarily mean that they are NOT going for MSRP. Perhaps though, it is precisely because the dealership is still not backing down from sticker that these rigs are now collecting dust on the front line...just a thought...
Well in a situation like that where I just travelled 800 miles and they change the terms, forgot a fee, Id say well I need to test this vehicle and make sure it is perfect before I commit.
I'd leave it at the airport with the keys inside and the parking receipt and tell them I also changed my mind or remembered something, etc.
Of course you probaly wouldn't get an unaccompianied test drive after flying in from out of town 8^)
I think the risk of some last minute shenanigans is real. To contain that, I'd want the dealer to fax me copies of the purchase contract and the financing contract.
I have a friend who is car shopping, did his research online, including checking pricing at various dealers online (1 Local, 2 @ a 4 hour drive, and 1 @ a 6 hour drive away) and the pricing on the car was from approx $200 under invoice to invoice.
Last Saturday, he went into a car dealership early in the morning. It was a gray drizzly day. He says the only other customers there were a married couple. He expressed interest in the model and trim he wanted to buy, test drove it and settled in for negotiations. The dealer made a "generous" offer $700 below MSRP. He offered $300 below invoice and the salesman almost gagged, complaining that it was nothing deal and that his time was being wasted. Took it in to the SM, who after a protracted wait, then came back with an offer $800 higher than my friend's.
Now, my friend fully expected to then be able to split the difference and everyone would be happy.
Unfortunately, that opportunity did not present itself, and he left the dealership.
You mean that he didn't get to make a 2nd offer or his 2nd offer was refused? Did the dealer tell him that their offer was the best they could do and didn't take another offer from him?
- He didn't get to make a 2nd Offer. The dealer's last offer was take it or leave it. He left it, since as a mutual friend put it, we are on the "cusp" of the '04's arriving for that particular model.
- There is a specific color he wants, and that dealer didn't have it, and he was told they wouldn't be getting any more '03's in.
The negotiating tool of true amateurs. I don't know how many times in my career I've heard, "Well, I'll split the difference with you," as if that somehow magically transforms the deal into being good for both sides.
Haven't you guys ever sold anything to anyone? Sometimes "take it or leave it" is as far as one party wants to go. There's nothing necessarily wrong with a buyer or seller saying that. No one has any kind of right to buy or sell an item for a certain price.
Comments
That's what determines what a dealer is willing to sell one for.
Geo - good deal on the licensing - the old 750-4 is a cool bike. It's gorgeous here today, and I'm slammed with reports that'll take me until 5-6:00 - after that, though, I'm bustin' bugs!
Mass - drop me an e-mail, please.
Mortgage refinancings are subject to the three day rule, no matter where the papers are signed.
just my $.02
kyfdx
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There is a 4k spread from invoice to MSRP on the MDX (there I said it...) but I am more than willing to accept that dealers want to make at least $1500 on 'em.
What I cannot fathom is why some dealers have not even bothered to return an email. I have sent 'em from my "official" 'real name at internet provider I have to pay' address (as opposed to junk/spam name at free mail server).
There are dealers in some areas with 40 or more units listed in stock, not too surprisingly those folks have responded with the best deals. I am willing to accept a price as much $500 higher than those, but NOT MSRP...
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The reality is the MDX has been out for a long THREE years. There have been NO visual changes. There are now SEVERAL competing vehicles than offer MANY of the same features & attributes. There is STRONG reason to believe the 2004s will offer a TWEAKED visual presentation AND several features that are available in competiors and/or OTHER Honda products.
The MSRP myth has been shattered...
The internet is a wonderful "world changing" history making system .. hey, look how much fun Saddams son had with it .l.o.l..
But along with it comes some problems .. I can't speak for Isell's store, but I can speak for some of the dealers and that's a Bunch .. Email/fax is a good way to get a price -IF- they are sent correctly.
"I feel", that when someone sends a email/fax request nowadays, they "invision" a salesperson getting the info, all the salesmen dropping Whatever they are doing and running all over the dealership, sales Mgr's getting off their phones, the Dealer principle barking orders and secretaries stop taking their lunch breaks and calling the factory .. .. well maybe the first week or so 5 years ago or something, but not now.
Most dealers now have a hard time getting a "dedicated" salesperson to do it on a full time basis .. and even the "full timers" seem to only last a few months, then back on the floor. The biggest problem is the LACK of information .. Imagine, 30/40++ emails/fax a day (some from 300 miles away) that read like this:
We are interested in a 2003 GMC Yukon 4x4 in pewter only .. we want the sunroof and the entertainment system .. we know the MSRP is $45,207 and the invoice is $38,571.34, we know that sales are down and we will offer you $38,6, respond quickly because we are buying a vehicle tommorow.
First off, the salesperson doesn't know if it's a SLT or a SLE, XL, 1/2 ton or 3/4 ton, what are the different option groups, what engine, etc, etc. No name, no address, no phone number .. oh golly ghee, let's spend a whole lot of time with this one .. - NOT- .. doesn't make for a happy start and it ends up in the circular file.
I'm not picking on anybody, but think about .. is this a 28 year old, coming from a 3 year old Focus and he owes $9,5 on a $5,000 vehicle - and you Know, he's on a payment ... is this a 12 year old, still on a bike and loves the info sources .. is this a 44 year old thats making a stupid offer on a $40,000 investment because he been reading the "dumb and the blind" ...
With as many dealers stores that I have been in, and read "hundreds" of "junk mail" it's no wonder that folks drop posts here and say "Hey, they never emailed/faxed me back, I musta Shot gunned out 35 and only got back 2 responses, they must not want my biz .. .. Listen to yourself.!
Terry ;-)
regards,
kyfdx
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I've purchased a Sorento and leased a Pilot this way in the last year and found it's made things a lot easier.
That being said I see exactly what you are saying in having to separate the wheat (ready to buy) from the chaff (everyone else).
Terry.
also remember....some of the biggest lies ever told are about the price somebody claims they paid for a vehicle. It's right up there with the "check is in the mail"
We have a frustrated MDX buyer trying to buy below what the market is.
I honestly think that buyers need to concentrate more on the VALUE of the car than on what the dealer happened to pay for it!
Life is short...
Whats the big deal? Are you just venting because some dealers have not contacted you back? It looks like you already have a good offer, so why not buy the thing already? I just checked and they are about $500 over MSRP in my area.
You have an offer for $2K under 800 miles away. It's going to cost you X dollars to get it (travel/transport). You want the local guy to match/beat that. Really, he only has to hit appx $1500-$1600 off MSRP to match.
Remember it's his car and if he wants a higher price that's his decision.
I guess I am just not a persuasive guy. Or maybe that is part of THEIR tactic...
It can make all the difference in the world ......
Terry.
Won't go into personal details why this deal was necessary at this time; suffice it to say that the resale market for '01 MDXs is so strong that there was equity in her trade-in even with the remaining lease payments (without interest) plus the pay-off thru AHFC. This equity was used by the dealer to take the new TL lease well below the factory subvented $329/mo/39 mo/12k mile/yr lease deal currently advertised by Acura.
We considered a private MDX sale after a buy-off but the dealer would realize more profit with a CPO sticker on the windshield and it turned out he gave us enough offset towards the TL that it wasn't worth the hassle of pay-off/advertise/ropeoffthehordes to do the deal privately.
Dealer said after a detail he'd get $30-32k for this '01 MDX Touring even with the 42k miles. This model came out late in 2000 so the owners with typical 3-yr leases haven't brought them back in yet - and the MSRP has gone up about 10% (?) in the last few years. The projected residuals from 2.5 years ago are turning out to be low vs. Real Life and dealers love to see these units for resale - they have buyers waiting in many locations.
But, back on point, with lots of Acura dealers in my area, $1500-2000 off on a new MDX is easy to find; once the '04s are announced come October a better deal on '03s will probably develop.
Bottom line for my relative is a new TL with $0 drive-off beyond first month's payment, a new 4yr/50k warranty, better mpg, and - a monthly payment about 40% less. Whatta country!
I can live with that.
I just don't see why folks go through the trouble of setting up their "web accounts" with Corporate and then ignore emails.
If I had they TIME to call, I might, but then I'd be accused of not COMING IN TO the store.
If I came INTO THE STORE then I'd be accused of "wasting THEIR time" -- golly when I DID stop in the store it was NOT like there were lines of folks dying to throw money at the dealers. I didn't see any "market value adjustment stickers" "special gloss treatments" tacked on either.
I gotta believe that the dealers KNOW that MSRP has cracked, I have gotten response telling me about "free washes for our custumers" -- two thousand buys an awful lot of detailing...(not to mention that some dealers in my marketplace have DROPPED that freebie, cause it was more hassle).
TACTICS...
Terry.
By the number of uppercase words in your posts, looks like your blood pressure is taking the hit and that's a shame.
Emails to internet dealer reps didn't work for me either this time around so I punted back to faxes - which worked a heckuva lot better. I guess it's that perceptual problem that men are known to have - it's only real if they can touch it.
Emails are Ether; Faxes are Real...because somebody can take it off the machine and show it to the SM and he can scribble numbers on it and then tell the rep to refax it back. You know...real manly stuff!
Good luck with your MDX - they are excellent vehicles.
You don't have a deal with any dealers 800 miles away, you have prospective deals. Get there and sign on the bottom line - then you have a deal. Wanna bet the $2k dissappears before that happens?
The car is worth what someone will pay for it, and these cars aren't sitting around long on the lots @MSRP+.
That means I am putting in a ton of hours. It means, like a said up the thread a bit, that the TOP reason I am using the 'net to try and do a deal is TIME savings. I would think that the effort involved on the part of the "internet guy" is also darned minimal. It is this "midday between tasks" kinda thing just like I'm doing now.
How many customers stop into a dealer on a weekday afternoon?
Terry :-)
How much time have you saved so far, compared to an hour across the desk from the local store?
Call them and get the dayshift sales manager's name and the fax number in the Finance office so your note doesn't get lost somewhere.
Write the following fax letter:
"Dear SM at XXXX Acura-
I want to purchase a new 2003 MDX base/touring/nav with exterior color xxxx and interior color xxxx the week of June 2nd. Additional options are to be _______________.
I will finance this purchase myself or thru your most competitive offer. I believe my credit is fair/good/excellent and the last FICO report placed me at #xxx but you're more than welcome to check my current credit status when I stop by after receiving your response.
I do (do not) have a trade-in and here's a very brief description ________________________________________________________________.
If your trade-in offer is reasonable I would like to save time and trouble by accepting it; if not, I'll do a private sale and we can focus on your one-shot, competitive price for the MDX by itself.
My contact number during the day is xxx-xxxx and at home it's xxx-xxxx. My return fax is xxx-xxxx.
I don't want to spend forever shopping around so I have selected just four (4) other Acura dealers to receive this fax. Thanks for you time and I hope we can agree on a deal in my delivery timeframe.
Sincerely, John Doe"
I got a dollar with your name on it that sez you get 4 replies, via return fax or phone, within a business day. After all, with a PC you can send emails as a fax format so the time spent is the same once you get the five names and five fax tele numbers.
So I ask, Why would a retailer discount this vehicle?
no tactics, like out posters wants to belive. Its called supply and demand.
Also....I bet the dealer 800 miles away changes things once the customer actually gets there. Does anyone think that if they hi-jack the price after the guy travels 800 miles he is going to leave without buying it??? Even if he doesnt take the bump, the dealer really isnt losing anything..somebody else will walk in and gladly pay MSRP in no time.
BTW: Fax orders without a specific offer go in the trash at many dealership. No dealer needs to bid for an MDX sale.
Clue #1: They can sell all they get at around MSRP.
Clue #2: They aren't sure they're dealing with a "serious buyer". A "serious buyer" is someone in their store, ready and able to buy the rig.
Clue #3: They really don't care what's happening in other markets. They probably don't have the resources or the inclination to do so.
Go buy it, work hard, make money and enjoy life,
Jack
Picking it up myslef was my first choice too, which is why I even considered getting it out of state. But, work is unrelenting and I would have to "red-eye" the whole trip fly down one day and drive back the same. Too crazy.
And before anybody asks, driving my own brand new, purchased-at-a-discount vehicle WOULD be time better spent than sweating in the 'salesbooth'.
As to demand differences, I recognize that such differences exist. I also know that NOT all units are pre-sold like they were months ago. I know that MOST dealers are ordering units without deposits. It is my guess that buyer demand shifts more quickly than dealers react. I am anticipating that that there will be unsold units all over the place once the 2004s (with their improvements) hit the market, but I'd rather get one now to use all summer.
The "market value" question is interesting, as I would think that the only way direction that this will shift is down. That being the case I can fully understand how they'd want a deposit. I they believe that the market will not decline you'd think they would still be eager to tell me how great a buying experience they could promise or SOMETHING to ensure that I will not even consider other stores. Too many dealers have not responded, that just does not seem like rational market making behavior. None of the dealers who I've been in contact with have suggested that they would have to order the vehicle or that it would be impossible to get it in a timely fashion. They just do not seem to be seriously 'dealing'. I have not gotten a "take it or leave" price from any either.
I'll fax 'em my deposit when they fax me the contract. I'll send them the check by registered express mail and they'll return the title to me. Not too much different than me being there. If I got really paranoid I could involve an automotive escrow service. I also have a cousin who lives near the selling dealer.
Not much to go wrong. Lots of folks have reported doing the same. If more folks thought like me and less like you the process of finding and getting cars on the 'net would be MUCH simpler.
Regards... Vikd
I have seen the same thing happening. I am not completely delusional. As I said I have been watching these things since they came out. Two of the stores I store I stopped by had the EXACT trim level and color combo I wanted, but they were already spoken for.
I may just wait a while longer, or do the long distance deal. I just can't decide
What's crucial is that you bargain when you don't need the vehicle right away - I believe that's a primary factor. The dealer might be able to move his MDXs at sticker - but he also wants to move them quickly. If you're a buyer with OK credit and you're ready to pull the trigger the last day of a quarter or fiscal year, you are more in the driver's seat.
I helped arrange the purchase of an Odyssey EX-L not long ago a year for my wife's girlfriend when everybody said sticker or no deal - wrong.
Now there obviously are some vehicles that ain't moving over the curb for a buck under sticker or even worse. Will your negotiating leverage be better when the 2004 MDXs are announced in 5 months? Only time will tell - and you might want the newer model anyway.
On the TL lease just concluded, three of the Acura dealers bidding came back to me and said, very nicely, "hey...that's a lowball offer, we know the SM behind it, you'll never take delivery without a bump." Wrong.
In fact, that's the only way I know of to positively determine if you're getting a good deal - when one or more other dealers offering the same exact configuration tell you that you'll never take delivery without a bump at the last second. If there is such a bump, I agree with the pros that say take a hike - and don't reward unethical behavior of any type with a sale.
I also disagree with the "fax in the can" comment. I sent out 8 faxes and got fax-back responses to four and telephone responses to the other four. Now, not every response was wonderful, but at least they didn't get trashed.
Still got that buck with your name on it.
Regards... Vikd
I'd leave it at the airport with the keys inside and the parking receipt and tell them I also changed my mind or remembered something, etc.
Of course you probaly wouldn't get an unaccompianied test drive after flying in from out of town 8^)
TB
Last Saturday, he went into a car dealership early in the morning. It was a gray drizzly day. He says the only other customers there were a married couple. He expressed interest in the model and trim he wanted to buy, test drove it and settled in for negotiations. The dealer made a "generous" offer $700 below MSRP. He offered $300 below invoice and the salesman almost gagged, complaining that it was nothing deal and that his time was being wasted. Took it in to the SM, who after a protracted wait, then came back with an offer $800 higher than my friend's.
Now, my friend fully expected to then be able to split the difference and everyone would be happy.
Unfortunately, that opportunity did not present itself, and he left the dealership.
- There is a specific color he wants, and that dealer didn't have it, and he was told they wouldn't be getting any more '03's in.
- Lou
Haven't you guys ever sold anything to anyone? Sometimes "take it or leave it" is as far as one party wants to go. There's nothing necessarily wrong with a buyer or seller saying that. No one has any kind of right to buy or sell an item for a certain price.
Rerenov8r: I want an MDX for invoice, I have offers from other dealers, whom I will not name.
Salesman: What did they offer?
Rerenov8r: 2000 under sticker. I want 3,000 off sticker or I walk.
Salesman: I'll sell you an MDX for 3 grand off sticker on one condition.
Rerenov8r: What condition?
Salesman: You have to give me a straw.
Rerenov8r: Why do you need a straw?
Salesman: Because I can use the straw to snort the brick of inhalable narcotics you brought in exchange for the 3 grand off sticker.
*end of conversation*