I was being dogged for having poor vision - missing a point made in one of Terry's posts - I thought it funny to be dogged for my vision considering my hobby.
I wonder. Are there any car dealers that give you a new rifle as a gift when you buy a new car or truck? I don't really need a compact tv or a toaster oven, but I could use a new rifle. I don't suppose they'd spring for a 10.5-pound-class benchrest .22, would they?
in the early '90s when I lived in Wyoming. Our dealership gave away rifles, handguns, camping gear, fishing gear, etc - it was amazing to see those hard-core Wyoming ranchers, some of the toughest negotiators I've ever dealt with, get all soft and mushy - they lose sight of screaming about the last nickel off the price of a truck when there's a Benelli over/under shotgun in the deal.
I got a form letter last week to test drive a new Hundy (spl on purpose) Sunday from our local Huuuuuuge mega dealer. Thats their adv. motto btw. Since I was gonna be out that way shopping and that stuff would be GREAT for camp! For stopping in you get either a box fan or a coleman cooler. For a test drive you also got a portable tv-radio. I figured what the heck ! Stopped in (driving my Caddy) it was a madhouse. Told the salesman straight up I wanted the free goodies ! He took a copy of my DL and insurance card and gave me the keys. Drove it around the block and back in 5 minutes. Gave the salesman 10 bucks and told him to have lunch on me ! Told sales mgr. not interested so no pressure please ! Got my goods and split! Inconsiderate me ? Fire away !
...the 10 spot "tip" was a nice gesture considering the floor traffic there seemed to be.
Terry--re post #4664: The Acura dealership is now down to 6 MDX's still sitting out front. This dealerhsip has some kind of special accreditation from Honda (can't remember what it's called; kinda like blue oval, five star etc...) which I'm sure helps to facilitate their allotment of the MD's. I'm not in the market for one so I don't know for sure what their pricing stance is on them. I'm guessing that they arent budging from sticker now though as I've never seen that many at that dealership since they first debuted...and I drive by it everyday.
...weather is great! Pushing 80 today and expected to push 90 by Thurs...and if I read it right some posts back?...a great day to wing around in that Mister 2...! How's the right coast?
...the Max will be the next veh. Another poster seemd frustrated at his/her MDX purchasing/pricing experience...I thought it might be worth mentioning the (surprising) surplus I'm seeing at my local Acura dealership with respect to availability and possible selling price. Not sure what's going on there; prior to three weeks ago, youd never see more than 1 or 2 sitting in the "pre-delivery" area...since I'm not in the market for the veh, I havent bothered to stop and check 'em out.
Regarding my recent shopping experience for the Max, it was at Royal M**** where the SM gave me the "never heard of it" response to the VPP question...but you were right that they are very nice folks there...
got an idea how to price a used car in its introduction model year noting that it sells for MSRP new? There is no published information yet for 2003's. How would you come up with an expected retail sales price?
That is a huge question, that I am dealing with as well. I am not sure how to price my G35..I went to the trade in value forum, and he gave me some ideas..but I think he might have been high. Dealers I have spoken to suggest 25% off MSRP, but of course there are so many variables.
Infiniti I think is depreciating far faster than is warranted, given the quality of the G and the warranty, but the historical perception of the mark hurts it. Competitors from Honda and Toyota would fair much better.
The current huge incentives on so many cars hurts too, especially if you didnt get the benefit when you purchased. I heard today that Chrysler extended their incentives until Labor Day, so this may be a HOT summer for deals Bad for us (:
2 of my family members bought GM cars from them last year at their sister Chevy store with my moms GM family discount. I was the 3rd wheel with the GM papers and got my $50 bird dog fee! So I didn't feel so bad.................geo
I got stuck with a Kia I co-signed for a couple years back. What a nitemare, so I am wary of Korean cars........
peete - if your selling the 'G' for 25% off MSRP, let me know, I'll be all over it... as Terry has confirmed (and yes, you can trust him, he is usually dead on), those things bring ALL the money...
bo - i think a lot has to do with the vehicle... hot cars will bring the big bucks. what are you looking at?
or auction results. We are looking for Retail values. I thought of Terry but these cars aren't going through an auction. His answer was on a G35 sedan anyway. I was looking at a coupe. I posted it here because I could not find a better place. I don't even think the price that a dealer would sell these cars at would be the same thing. I may have to post it in another discussion.
Write this down if you want to but these things will be selling for 10-20% less than MSRP used in less than 3 months. I refuse to pay MSRP for one of these things used when I can pay the same for a new one. What does a guy do that HAS to sell one? He will discount it to get rid of it. Anyone that thinks selling them used at MSRP or even -$2K will ever work is crazy.
more about the market than you're giving him credit for - he talks to dealers all day, 3-4 days a week. He knows what stuff sells for and the reasons they buy the vehicles at the prices they do.
Then again, he could prolly use the break, so let's leave him out...
Terry is a great source of info, my best advice as well...
the wholesale price IS the value of the car, then add a bit of this and that to get your retail. Your private party sale is probably somewhere inbetween those two numbers. Its obviously more than wholesale, but usually not quite the retail value.... Another idea, check the paper, classifieds, auto traders, internet.. to get an idea of asking prices.. check the dealers as well.
Wait a sec, BO is looking to buy a G35 and peete is looking to sell his .... hmmmmmm.... I think I'm having an idea .... but ... ahhhh ... sorry, thought I had something, but then I felt a burning sensation between my ears and had to stop thinking so hard...
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
the "bit of this and that" is what I'm interested in quantifying. The dealers ARE asking close to new price. That's what makes this so difficult. I have to come up with something that sounds reasonable. "Asking Prices" and "selling prices" are different things.
well, let's quickly break some costs down, and anyone feel free to help/correct/or add additional...
transport fee from auction/auction fee $200 any service needed? maybe $100 good detail - $125 dealer profit - $1,500-2,000
maybe a few other minor costs here and there...
so, take a loaded-up G35 sedan pulling high $27's.. can probably be bought from dealer for $30ish/30,5. MSRP is roughly $33,5k. I think your looking at a coupe, probably run a little higher thru the auctions, so retail used is a little higher.
That being said, there are some cars better purchased new... probably the G35 in this case.
trying to sell a coupe out in the cold. Who would buy from him? Is he just gonna decide to keep it? This guy can't make the payments anymore and HAS to get rid of it.
not sure i follow you there.... why would it leave him out in the cold? price it right, and its sold. buyer doesn't have to worry about warranty, the coupe should have a 4yr/60k manufacturer warranty thru infiniti... if he has taken care of it, has had it serviced, gets it cleaned up before he sells it, he should be able to get rid of it fairly easy.
that a price around -$2K up to MSRP could be gotten for a used coupe. A private individual that prices his car this way has to compete with the new ones. No one will buy from him because they can get a new one for the same. There are even a few unclaimed ones on a few lots these days. Therefore, he makes no sale and has to keep it. Then, because he can't make the payments he will lower the price to get it to sell and we are back at -15-20% again. "Pricing it right" is MSRP -15-20% or it won't sell. Why would it for more?
Sorry, I respectfully disagree... you'll find a buyer, those are pretty hot cars... for a private sale, $29,5/$30k should find a new garage to park it in. people always payment shop, and if you can find a used one w/ 3/5/7k for 3k off or so, its something to think about. thats not even broken in...
if he wants to sell it for 20/25% off MSRP, let me know, i'd be interested.
Selling/trading a nearly new car is just a biter, depreciation-wise, any way you do it. Trade it, you get less than you'd get from a private party; BUT, since it's worth a big chunk, the sales tax credit on the new car is worth a big chunk. Sell it privately, you got to get enough extra to cover that sales tax credit before it makes any sense at all. Around here, that sales tax credit would be worth $1.5-$2K.
whats he got on it... i am showing, off infiniti's website, g35 coupe with premium pack @ $34,345 (including destination). 15% off is $29,2. 20% off is $27,4. If he has Nav on it, different story, its a $37k car brand new, could possibly get $32/33/34k used if he sells it. Obviously depends on the condition of the car, mileage, any accidents, etc... i'm assuming its fairly low mileage and in great condition.
I wouldn't use %'s off as a rule of thumb... can vary widely from car to car, manufacturer to manufacturer.
Actually, I looked back on this board and he never said coupe or sedan. Had to check though cause I really haven't been paying attention most of this recent discussion.
He might have on another board. I'm not going to search for it. Oh well.
maybe you should email him.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
yeah, tco figure may be correct, may be wrong (Edmunds is close on some numbers/off on other numbers).... I was merely pointing out a simplified cost structure of a nearly new pre-owned vehicle.
My best suggestion, go over to real world trade values and drop the EXACT description of the car on the board, Terry can give you a rough idea of the CURRENT wholesale value, and you should have some sort of an idea from there how to price it. Its your friend's decision if he wants to unload it for cheaper than whats its worth, people do it all the time and someone will get a good deal....
A local dealer is offering $8000 off sticker for all F150 supercabs. That means I can get a F150 Lariat 2WD for about $22-23K depending on options. But I see used '02s with 15-20K miles on them advertised for $23995 or similar.
Same kinda thing with Civics, Accords, Camrys, etc. I can usually find a local dealer that will sell a new one cheaper than a used one.
asking price is what they are asking, you can ask whatever you want, but the question is what is the buying price? obviously vehicles that have heavy incentives will be worth less on the used market as well (as well as thru the auctions, you would think). An F150 going thru an auction surely will not grab the type of % comparison to MSRP as a G35 will.... thats why you can't use the rule of thumb that a vehicle is worth 20-25% of MSRP. it highly depends on type of vehicle, manufacturer, condition, market conditions, incentives... on and on and on.
To me, the value of my car (or a used car) is the wholesale value of the car, plain and simple. that is what the market is willing to give for the car. Obviously, you buy from a dealer, you won't buy at wholesale b/c there is a cost of doing business (yes, they have to make money to stay in business). Thats the starting point.....
..... The word *negotiation* was invented .. if a dealer is "asking", let's say $21,900 for a pre-owned and the wholesale is $17,5 there is probably a real good chance that you can buy it for let's say, $19,9 or less .. sure beats buying the new one for $24,900 then driving it over the curb and now it's worth $19 .. l.o.l.
It just came over Reuters that GM is increasing their incentives to $4000 on some models, but they werent specific. If Im patient perhaps in a year there will be a free corvette in my driveway
I think this incentive stuff, while great for a buyer is getting a bit silly. Greenspan is hinting at deflation - well here is the first real sign of it.
When we bought a new one in December, I noted that the incentive was 3000 but the list price had increased by either 250 or 500 on the new ones coming from the factory at the same time: the effective incentive actually was back to 2500 or so... The incentive hid the price increase from most people.
I understand that is the idea, it just seems ridiculous to me to even bother asking that much when no one in their right mind (or left mind for that matter) would even consider paying that much.
I won't complain too much though. The insane asking prices for used CR-Vs help me get a ridiculous amount for mine when I traded it in last summer.
This is not going to help their profits. Again, like I said earlier, restricting production would increase profits. Choke off the supply and the price, if not demand, will rise.
It's more costly to reduce production as opposed to offer incentives for the most part. IIRC, under the current contract UAW employees get up to 95% of their pay if laid off. Further, automakers still have to meet contractual obligations with their suppliers - ie GM still takes the seat assemblies they agreed to.
Incentives help to increase unit sales as opposed to less production which can reduce potential unit sales.
...and he didn't even mention the Big "2"'s huge sunk costs on energy, transportation, and MANAGEMENT -- yep they go dialing down the spigoton supply and all the good GMers NOT covered by labor contracts (and there are THOUSAND & THOUSANDS of 'em) still have to be paid!
When you build a BATTLESHIP of immense proportions it takes A LOT of water to keep it afloat. When the General makes money it is BIG money, and when it loses, it is BIG BIG money!
but I have been aware for a long time that the UAW is killing GM, Ford and Chrysler's ability to compete globally. If they drive a company out of business, they won't collect 95%. Increasing incentives and sales at the same time might not increase profits if they offset each other.
...or what are SUPPOSED to be the volume leaders. When they are offering $4K incentives on the LeSabre you can bet that the competition (Mercury mostly I think) is offering up so big incentives too.
I wouldn't say the UAW is killing GM, Ford, DaimlerChrysler so much as making them a whole lot less 'agile' than the smaller automakers.
There are darned few other companies/industries that can't scale back production/trim payroll on a whim. In a way it is not a bad thing, as even if/when they do 'scale back production' it gives 'em an incentive to look HARD at redoing the factory and SPEEDING up other parts of their vehicle desgin/development process. To spur demand some shiny new vehicles ARE still the BEST cure.
How many times has an American car maker created a vehicle that was so sexy/appealing/interesting that people just HAD to have it and were willing to pay MSRP or more to get it. The Corvette does that but even it has offered rebates as of late. The Thunderbird is the only other one I can think of. I think they should focus on quality and reliability if they really want to improve things.
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I was being dogged for having poor vision - missing a point made in one of Terry's posts - I thought it funny to be dogged for my vision considering my hobby.
John...and no, I'm no sniper either.
Since I was gonna be out that way shopping and that stuff would be GREAT for camp!
For stopping in you get either a box fan or a coleman cooler. For a test drive you also got a portable tv-radio. I figured what the heck !
Stopped in (driving my Caddy) it was a madhouse.
Told the salesman straight up I wanted the free goodies !
He took a copy of my DL and insurance card and gave me the keys. Drove it around the block and back in 5 minutes. Gave the salesman 10 bucks and told him to have lunch on me ! Told sales mgr. not interested so no pressure please ! Got my goods and split! Inconsiderate me ? Fire away !
Terry--re post #4664: The Acura dealership is now down to 6 MDX's still sitting out front. This dealerhsip has some kind of special accreditation from Honda (can't remember what it's called; kinda like blue oval, five star etc...) which I'm sure helps to facilitate their allotment of the MD's. I'm not in the market for one so I don't know for sure what their pricing stance is on them. I'm guessing that they arent budging from sticker now though as I've never seen that many at that dealership since they first debuted...and I drive by it everyday.
Regards... Vikd
who's a him not a her... :-/
btw...PT GT still in lemon h*ll?
Regards... Vikd
It finally quit raining (3 weeks straight, I thought I was back in Portland) and I can ride the motorcycle again!
What's with the MDX talk? I thought you were looking hard at a Maxima?
Regarding my recent shopping experience for the Max, it was at Royal M**** where the SM gave me the "never heard of it" response to the VPP question...but you were right that they are very nice folks there...
Regards... Vikd
Unless the place is as grown up as I can imagine it is.
Infiniti I think is depreciating far faster than is warranted, given the quality of the G and the warranty, but the historical perception of the mark hurts it. Competitors from Honda and Toyota would fair much better.
The current huge incentives on so many cars hurts too, especially if you didnt get the benefit when you purchased. I heard today that Chrysler extended their incentives until Labor Day, so this may be a HOT summer for deals
So I didn't feel so bad.................geo
I got stuck with a Kia I co-signed for a couple years back.
What a nitemare, so I am wary of Korean cars........
bo - i think a lot has to do with the vehicle... hot cars will bring the big bucks. what are you looking at?
Write this down if you want to but these things will be selling for 10-20% less than MSRP used in less than 3 months. I refuse to pay MSRP for one of these things used when I can pay the same for a new one. What does a guy do that HAS to sell one? He will discount it to get rid of it. Anyone that thinks selling them used at MSRP or even -$2K will ever work is crazy.
Then again, he could prolly use the break, so let's leave him out...
the wholesale price IS the value of the car, then add a bit of this and that to get your retail. Your private party sale is probably somewhere inbetween those two numbers. Its obviously more than wholesale, but usually not quite the retail value.... Another idea, check the paper, classifieds, auto traders, internet.. to get an idea of asking prices.. check the dealers as well.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
qbrozen: I thought peete was selling a sedan.
transport fee from auction/auction fee $200
any service needed? maybe $100
good detail - $125
dealer profit - $1,500-2,000
maybe a few other minor costs here and there...
so, take a loaded-up G35 sedan pulling high $27's.. can probably be bought from dealer for $30ish/30,5. MSRP is roughly $33,5k. I think your looking at a coupe, probably run a little higher thru the auctions, so retail used is a little higher.
That being said, there are some cars better purchased new... probably the G35 in this case.
if he wants to sell it for 20/25% off MSRP, let me know, i'd be interested.
Trade it, you get less than you'd get from a private party; BUT, since it's worth a big chunk, the sales tax credit on the new car is worth a big chunk.
Sell it privately, you got to get enough extra to cover that sales tax credit before it makes any sense at all.
Around here, that sales tax credit would be worth $1.5-$2K.
I wouldn't use %'s off as a rule of thumb... can vary widely from car to car, manufacturer to manufacturer.
Thanks for all your input.
He might have on another board. I'm not going to search for it. Oh well.
maybe you should email him.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
My best suggestion, go over to real world trade values and drop the EXACT description of the car on the board, Terry can give you a rough idea of the CURRENT wholesale value, and you should have some sort of an idea from there how to price it. Its your friend's decision if he wants to unload it for cheaper than whats its worth, people do it all the time and someone will get a good deal....
Same kinda thing with Civics, Accords, Camrys, etc. I can usually find a local dealer that will sell a new one cheaper than a used one.
To me, the value of my car (or a used car) is the wholesale value of the car, plain and simple. that is what the market is willing to give for the car. Obviously, you buy from a dealer, you won't buy at wholesale b/c there is a cost of doing business (yes, they have to make money to stay in business). Thats the starting point.....
Terry.
I think this incentive stuff, while great for a buyer is getting a bit silly. Greenspan is hinting at deflation - well here is the first real sign of it.
Just found the specifics:
http://reuters.com/financeQuoteCompanyNewsArticle.jhtml?storyID=2- - 870643&ric=GM.N&infotype=press&compname=GENERAL+MOTOR- - S
and now this from Ford:
http://reuters.com/financeQuoteCompanyNewsArticle.jhtml?storyID=2- 870829&ric=f&infotype=news&compname=FORD+MOTOR+CO
The incentive hid the price increase from most people.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I won't complain too much though. The insane asking prices for used CR-Vs help me get a ridiculous amount for mine when I traded it in last summer.
Incentives help to increase unit sales as opposed to less production which can reduce potential unit sales.
When you build a BATTLESHIP of immense proportions it takes A LOT of water to keep it afloat. When the General makes money it is BIG money, and when it loses, it is BIG BIG money!
I wouldn't say the UAW is killing GM, Ford, DaimlerChrysler so much as making them a whole lot less 'agile' than the smaller automakers.
There are darned few other companies/industries that can't scale back production/trim payroll on a whim. In a way it is not a bad thing, as even if/when they do 'scale back production' it gives 'em an incentive to look HARD at redoing the factory and SPEEDING up other parts of their vehicle desgin/development process. To spur demand some shiny new vehicles ARE still the BEST cure.