Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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Dealer's Tricks - bait & switch, etc.
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Price is all that matters, loyalty and service were dropped from the American business ethic years ago whether it be banking (especially banking), auto service/sales etc. Everyone want a Wal-mart price with a Nordstrom service.
In fact, I do shop small hardware stores in lieu of a Lowes, or Home Depot because I get service and I am willing to pay for it.
This has not existed in the automotive field in a decade!
Where profit comes before service (or the product becomes so common place and service free) items (like computers and cars) start to fall into the commodity field. Only price matters!
Very very cynical.
They deserve to have cars rot on their lots!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Buy elsewhere.
For example, if I know the answer to a maintenance question but ask it anyway one of three things is going to happen.
1. The sales person knows and answers the question correctly.
2. The sales person doesn't know the answer but finds it.
3. The sales person doesn't know or doesn't want to say and so he/she makes up an answer.
It's a relatively easy way to find out if the person you are dealing with is honest.
The sales person going with option 3 is not someone I am going to trust and would not want to do business with.
Just my 2 cents.
Jackie
For example. When we bought our 2000 Mazda MPV we asked who made the engine (Ford).
If the salesman told us Mazda, we thanked him, showed him the content sticker on the vehicle, the Ford oil filter and the Motorcraft plug wires.
It was not a question of knowing more than the saleman, but rather what Jackie above said. I want to learn the character of the person trying to sell me the item.
I specifically asked that question because I knew it could be a deal breaking question. Many people buying a Mazda (Japanese) don't want a Ford (Made in Cleveland) engine. So instantly, I learn if this guy is going to be forthright or just telling me what he thinks I want to hear.
FWIW
TB
One question though - Out of two salespeople one seems informed and the other doesn't, but the less informed guy gives you a lower price. Which do you buy from? Are you willing to forego doing business with an uninformed salesperson regardless of pricing?
So go in and say, "I will buy this car today for $xxxxx." Simple.
If you indeed know what it is worth and are still asking "what's your best price?" then you are just asking for grief.
If you know what you want and you've shopped all the prices, all that's left is paperwork. So just walk in and do the deal. How hard can that be?
There's no law that states that every buyer has to sit there like a moron listening to somebody's baloney. Tell the salesguy by the first nanosecond that you know what you want and you are buying today. Give him the out-the-door price you want to pay and ask him to take it to the boss for approval. Let him write it up if he has to. If he wants a check "to show you're serious", give him one. I mean, you're ready to buy, right? So what difference does it make? Give him something in writing showing you've got financing if that works better.
Don't just sit there getting all bent because the salesguy is doing his job; assert yourself enough to make your intentions clear.
Personally, I always buy from the person I feel the most comfortable with, lowest price or not.
Bretfraz - the only check I ever write at the dealership is the one for the total amount. I will not give a deposit unless I have ordered the car and I won't sign anything but the final documents.
The reason being, signing anything prior to that is irrelevant. It is not legally binding but is common in sales as it can be used to pressure someone into buying something when the deal goes bad.
Jackie
Honesty is number one, that's why guessing is not allowed. My "test" is open book, open notes. So the only penalty is for not getting the question right. There are no time limits and no restrictions on getting the answer. However, I can usually tell the difference between an unsure answer and one that was crafted based on what he thinks I want to hear. I taught for a number of years and have learned how to read people reasonably well. Plus I have kids, so I know what it sounds like when someone is telling me what they think I want to hear.
If all other things are equal, such as quality of service, same vehicle, everything other than knowledge and price, I will buy from the lowest price. I can't lie about that.
When they ask me to sign the deal, I say give me a signed copy that you will sell me the car for that price and I'll sign.
You want me to sign, fine, I'll do that right below your signature. Not authorized to sell it to me, then why do you want my signature.
That usually stops that nonsense.
TB
I went to my local Nissan dealer to TD the new Altima. The salesman was *very* knowledgeable about the product (considering they didn't have any brochures yet...maybe he checked Nissan's website.) I explained to him up front that I wasn't buying a car today - that it may actually be January before I make a final decision. He was very happy to not only let me test drive one, but *two* cars. I spent about 2 hours at the dealership.
Impressions: he was knowledgeable about the product, there was no pressure applied, although he did ask 1 or 2 qualifying questions "So what do you do? Where do you work?" Which most people would think is just being friendly, but it's really to see if you can even afford to buy a car. Since I can afford it, I didn't mind telling him. He didn't try to TO me to anyone else either, which was a nice touch. If I do end up buying an Altima, it will be from him, because he was very credible, very honest and above board, knowing that he wasn't going to sell me that day.
A previous salesperson at the same dealership cried about it, saying "If you don't see my sales manager, I may get fired...*sob sob*" as soon as the sales manager came over, I said, "Look, I'm not buying today. The only reason you're here is that I don't want this guy to get fired. Now that you're here, I'm leaving. Thank you for your time.
I feel that if a salesperson has to resort to whining or (and I know it's a popular tactic) guilt-tripping the customer, then he or she is not being very professional, and doesn't deserve my business. I heard a story once about a salesman who said "If you don't buy these options, I won't get paid." The reply by the customer was "Well then, quit this job and find a job that *does* pay."
Now I have a few questions that hopefully someone can answer...any replies would be appreciated.
1. I understand that dealers and managers don't like to leave too much money on the table for salespeople to give away, which is why they require the sales staff to bring offers to them...
What then, is the point of having salespeople at all? If the salesperson can't make a deal on his own, and the closer (usually a sales manager) has to finalize the deal, then what exactly does a salesperson do, other than give test drives, show off the capabilities of the car, etc...they certainly don't have much (or any) power in the negotiation process...what's the point? (I think Internet sales are proving this as well. Talk directly to the fleet/sales manager and make a deal without any salespeople making a commission on the deal, etc...)
2. With car pricing information being freely available now - you can find the invoice price of both the car, options, and even find out the holdback - why do dealers continue to play games with people who have done their homework? I'm sure they are still people who don't want to bother to get this information - the car dealers can always use an extra slam dunk - but a lot of us know what we want, and the approximate price we feel is a fair profit to the dealer.
I thought the ultimate motto in the car business was "Any sale is a good sale" or "Sell the cars now and worry about tomorrow later." i.e. so what if the buyer was knowledgeable - he still bought a car, and that's extra profit, and one less car on the flooring plan.
-Bryan
The other question is, if you are buying an extended warranty, do you need a 7 year, 100,000? How long are you going to keep the car? How many miles a year do you drive? My point is that if you're only keeping the car for 4 years and you only drive 15,000 a year, you only need a 5 year, 75,000 mile or a 4 year, 60,000 mile deal. The smaller warranty will cost 1/2 to 2/3 of the 100,000 -
The worst is this current 0.0% financing. After calling every dealer offering that they all say yes, on the MSRP. That was never stated in any fine print or anywhere. Just a gimick to get people in the door. And these sleazeballs wonder why no one trusts a car salesman?
Consumer protection agencies need to crack down on advertising!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
The smart folks know that the financing part and the selling price part are separate. I agree it's sleazy for dealers to join the two ("0% only on cars sold at full sticker") but that doesn't mean a buyer cannot separate the two parts during the purchase process.
It seems like every book or publication about car buying advises people to keep price and finance negotiations separate. Why not follow that advice with 0% deals?
Thanks.
Advertising only works because human nature lets it work.
Still, don't ignore the trees when looking for a forest. 2.9% on 2001 trucks and 4.9% on 2002's is still a world-class deal.
Avalanche, TrailBlazer, Tahoe, Suburban, Yukon, XL, Denali, and Envoy - - all 4.9% for 60 months.
My $24.95 "Verbiage Handling and Documentation Fee" can be paid by check or credit card.
Or you may make a donation of any amount to the Uniformed Firefighters Fund in NY.
Alot of dealers in our area do this on used cars.
Yes, its a gimmick but its the kind that fills the showroom with customers.
Oddly enough some very educated people believe in the the "fantasy deal fairy" when they read or see advertisments that offer something too good to be true....its like the people who fall for a "low ball" price and proceed to head back to the dealer who low balled them and buy for hundreds or thousands more than quoted.
Rich
Most banks charge a fee to stop payment on a check. Granted it's not a huge amount, but it's an annoyance. Not only do I have to pay a fee because the dealership wouldn't return my check, but I have to spend the time at the bank or on the phone.
If I am at the dealership saying I want this car for this amount, they can say yes or no. Signing a document or giving them a check is pointless if they don't agree to the price. If they say yes, I am not going to go drive somewhere else and offer $100.00 less, I am going to buy the car.
The idea of signing an agreement to purchase the car at x number of dollars or requiring a deposit as a sign to show I'm serious is nothing but mind games and I'm not going to play.
Jackie
"If they say yes, I am not going to go drive somewhere else and offer $100.00 less, I am going to buy the car."
Now how would the dealer know that? Unfortunately, people going somewhere else for $100 is more the rule than the exception. Hence, the request for a deposit to show you don't plan to do that.
If you're going to make an offer that you're going to stick to, how could anyone play any mind games with you?
Giving a deposit with your offer will do nothing but help your transaction proceed smoothly. "Because I shouldn't have to" sounds more like stubborness than a genuine desire to help yourself.
Any thing else is false advertsing and there are laws against it. It's bad enough that you need a magnifying glass to read the fine print (which excludes more than it includes) when reading newspaper/TV adds.
Requiring a license check and a $100.00 deposit isn't a mind game? Please...it is nothing BUT a tactic. I will sign one thing and that is a purchase contract below the sales manager's signature. If the dealer won't sign a sales contract then he's not offering a final deal.
Once again actual invoice and add a line the state "overhead" . This is business of course it costs money to advertise house and sell cars but DON"T tell me the car's price depends on how informed (about dealer tactics?) the buyer is!
That's not good business but a shell game!
RIDICULOUS!!
i've never been asked for a deposit in all the years i've been buying cars.
after the deal is agreed upon, you both sign. then you take care of the financial stuff.
to many horror stories like "sorry, can't give you the check back because the manager put it in the safe... and he just went home"
you want us to trust the salesman, but i don't see much trust from the salesman if he insists on a deposit to show your good faith.
If I want a computer should I just buy the first one I see and expect that I'll get the best value?
If I'm too lazy to stand in line at the supermarket and buy stuff at 7-11 instead should I expect to pay the same price?
As for deposits, as I've explained above, the risk to the informed shopper in giving one is practically zero while the potential benefit in helping your offer to be accepted with a minimum of fuss is great.
Frankly, considering the wealth of information available, if someone is too lazy or just unwilling to do the research to enable them to make an intelligent offer then IMO they deserve every bit of sales process grief that they get.
It is very hard for someone who earns (and spends those earnings) like I do to understand how a car has a "floatng" price on it.
I hope some salesman out there helps those of us who just want to buy a car, pay the salesman and have a good business transaction. Don't dealers understand WHY customers dread the process? Car sales practices are bad business practices practices. It costs dealers' money and their sales staff sales/income.
Giving a deposit is not going to stop someone from shopping the price if that is what they want to do.
The risk of giving a deposit is equal regardless of a shopper being informed or not. It is dependant upon the business practices of the dealership in question not how much research the shopper has done. An honest dealership will give the deposit back if an agreement can not be reached. A less than honest dealership will do everything they can to not give it back.
My point is that giving a deposit or signing an agreement that I will purchase at x price to show I am serious is pointless. It is not legally binding.
I can do all of the above and still walk out of the dealership without buying anything. The only thing it does is give the dealership something to wave in the consumers face and say "but you agreed to buy a car, I have it writing." Still not legally binding but opens the door to pressure tactics.
Therefore, I will NOT sign anything just to prove that I am "serious" about buying. The fact that I am there making an offer checkbook in hand should be enough of an indication that I am serious.
Jackie
It's seems that you are taking being asked for a deposit as some kind of personal insult rather than the business transaction that it is. When was the last time you had a real estate offer even considered without a deposit?
And you seem to keep making my point for me - if it's not legally binding and you know it, then how could they possibly use it to pressure you.
The absolute worst possible scenario is that you call your bank and stop payment on the cheque. What's that going to cost, $10? Big deal. Seems like a small price to pay to avoid further contact with a place that would do that.
As for the $10.00 charge. No, it's not a large amount of money, but why should I have to pay for the dealership not returning something that doesn't belong to them? If you truly believe that is acceptable, then I doubt anything I say will change your mind.
I do take it as an insult. I shouldn't have to prove myself to purchase something. Signing a worthless document or giving a deposit that can be cancelled at any time does not show that I am serious. All it shows is the dealership trying to control the situation.
Purchasing a car is nothing like purchasing real estate. For starters, the mortgage company, not the seller, holds the deposit. If an agreement can't be made, the deposit is returned.
Quite honestly, I don't understand you pushing to sign or give something to the dealership that has no meaning. If it is not binding and can be cancelled at any time, how does it benefit the dealership or show the consumer is serious?
Jackie
It's not a requirement that you act politely to buy a car either but it certainly makes the process go smoother.
And please do not put words in my mouth. Nowhere did I state that I thought keeping a deposit check was acceptable. I merely pointed out what the worst possible consequence could be. Maybe the buyer-seller relationship isn't as vicious here as in your area but I can't even imagine a store around here that would refuse to hand back a check they had received only a few minutes before.
And who cares who holds the deposit on a real estate deal. The point is that you still have to provide one or you will not be considered a serious buyer.
I really don't care if you accept my advice or not. You are the one having the miserable car-buying experiences not me. I'm just telling you how you can make it a little better for yourself.
This shows a commitment on the part of the customer and shows the desk that they are, in fact, serious.
But if the customer balks or seems uncomfortable, I'll simply ask them to confirm that they are serious and will drive the car home.
I don't push my customers.
elfie, I know you don't think so...but after reading a few of your posts I think you actually would like working with me!