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High End Luxury Cars



  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    It's the coolade Denny has been passing to us, designman


    Like Len said, we have a car that satisfies our needs and makes us happy campers; nothing wrong with that, right ?
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    Next to Ed Norton in the sewer of course! I'd like to talk more but I must go and core a apple.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    "It's the coolade Denny has been passing to us..."

    Oac... that's precisely what I meant. But don't they offer cappucino and espresso when you bring your car in for Lexus service?

    You know these forums sure are great. They allow a man to let go a little... ya know... have some good clean fun. (We're really beating this Honeymooner stuff to death ;-)
  • Stevestein,

    Thanks for the information. I agree that Lexus is top tier in quality production. I know no other auto maker that serves the customer so well (a sad state of affairs IMO). Perhaps they can goad some other companies to start standing behind their products.

    Best wishes.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    Actually at my dealership they have that, sandwiches, deserts and games including virtual golf. But I always get a loaner.

    Honeymooners - time to get out the dvd collection and find the Christmas episode with the bowling bag ball and uncle Leo. Hey did Seinfeld copy that guy??

    Hpowders - absolutely correct.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    There are only 2 shows from the past that I never get tired of. You mentioned them both: The Honeymooners and Seinfeld. The Seinfeld crew went their separate ways and all have been failures-yes even Jerry-just terrible at standup. Yeah the bowling ball episode: "It's great to see you Ralph!" I'm already laughing uncontrollably! Looking to get my LS430 in August when my Bimmer lease is up.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594

    What possessed you to do the infamous thing: go from a Bimmer to a Lex ???? Designman may have a hissy fit seeing another Bimmer lover bite the dust and go Lexus. J/K of course.

    As Vince Lombardi (the great Green Bay Packers coach) would put it: "What the hell is going on here ?"

    Seriously, hpowders, any specific reasons why you'd want an LS over a Bimmer, besides the obvious ones ?

    :) Curious to know....
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    Did you buy the Honeymooner DVD set? It's great to have the 39 shows in crystal clear dvd format. I never tire of the Dick van [non-permissible content removed] show either. Dick was phenomenal and Mary Tyler Moore was already great back then and Carl Reiner was always in the background. Everyone loves Raymond is also up there as is Friends. All in the Family and Sanford and Son were great but they fit their time period rather than the "classic universal" time the others have. But The Honeymooners, Seinfeld and Dick van [non-permissible content removed] are my top three.

    You are dead set on the LS coming from a Bimmer huh - which BMW? Oh, oh - is designman next??
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    At this stage of the game(mid 50's)-luxury and reliability are more important to me than race-track handling and idrive computer chip breakdowns. Look at the very poor reliability forecast by CR for the new 5 series. You can fool some of the people.... I can't wait for August.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Everywhere I look there’s talk of Lexus reliability and methods, even on the Porsche-enthusiast website that I frequent where there is a current thread attended by a well-known Porsche writer/guru. Says he knows German-car insiders, that they are resting on laurels, smug about their own legends, arrogant, blind to the current errors.

    Now if you guys promise that you are not shills ;-) and if the next LS turns out to be a handsome piece, I will consider it. But don’t forget, I now own what some consider to be the best sedan that was ever made so the standards are high here…

    “To you from failing hands we throw
    The torch; be yours to hold it high.”

    from the poem In Flanders Fields by John McRae
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    I will definitely get the Honeymooners DVD set. No out-takes of course as the show was stone cold live every time.
    I have a 2002 330i sedan with every intention of moving up to a 530i this August. I have heard so many complaints about the new 5 series that the game plan had to be changed. BMW has let me down by over-complicating their new vehicles. Too many horror stories of idrive failures literally shutting down the car. When you pay 50-55k, a car should be exceptionally reliable. We're not talking about a Kia here! I have been a BMW man since 1993. It's time for a change. Very much looking forward to the LS430 next summer.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Hmmm, there's some Benedict Arnold action going on around here. Am wondering how kyfdx and kdshapiro will weigh in on this.
  • garyh1garyh1 Posts: 386
    Please allow me to jump in here. I have been looking at this forum for just the past couple of weeks, and don't have time to go back through all 7000+ past messages, so if I am being too repetitious, please forgive me.

    As the LS forum frequenters already know, I recently bought an '05 LS. You can see from my profile that over the past 30 years I have owned (in order) Volvo, Audi, BMW 735, and most recently 2 MB E320s. I obvious appreciate the benefits of the German approach to fine cars. So why did I just switch to an LS?

    Frankly, after rejecting the new BMW based on everyone I know having one ending up hating the i-Drive, I started off thinking I would be making a decision between another new E or jumping up to an S430 (likely a slightly used Starmark). That's when I started researching and found that the anecdotal info I had heard about the reliability of recent MBs was not just the loudness of a few complainers, but statistically meaningful data. Also, the MB dealer I had been using for the last 10 years had expanded a couple of years ago, and the service IMO had really suffered ever since. So I quickly decided that my practice of buying a great car and holding it for a long time (beyond any warranty) didn't make sense anymore with an MB, especially a used S class.

    Pricing of a gussied up E came out the same as the deal I could cut on a similarly equipped LS. In a head-to-head comparison, the E just didn't stand up. Start with reliability, then compare seating comfort, then roominess of the rear passenger compartment (I continuously got complaints when i had to put 3 business associates in the back of my E). Handling of the E was admittedly a bit more "fun", but once I drove an LS with 18" wheels and low profile tires, the difference was really minimal at anything close to legal speeds. On the Autobahn, I would admittedly take the MB; but you know what, I can't get to the Autobahn from my house (by car at least).

    Finally, as to styling, I still have a '98 E in my garage next to the LS, both the exact same color combo (black exterior, beige interior). The rear of the LS is so obviously a copy of the E that it is almost funny. The interior coloring of the LS is also an exact copy of the two-tone beige of the E. I love the simple beauty of the body of the E; and although the LS emulates it, the E just looks better. In comparison, the LS almost looks like someone took an old style E and pumped it up until the proportions were just slightly out of kilter.

    Nevertheless, the LS is an overall nice looking car, just not as nice as the old E that it was clearly patterned after. Conservatively attractive yes; head-turning no. IMO, the only thing that keeps it from looking too conservative is the new 18" alloy wheels.

    Bottom line: it is hard to talk about "value" when you are paying over $50,000 for a piece of machinery that serves the same function as another piece of decent machinery that can be bought for less than half that amount. But in reality, the less than $56K I paid for an LS with Navigation and every other techno toy that I could conceive of ever wanting, really is a great value. I started buying BMWs and MBs in 1987 with the expectation of paying a lot of money up front but having minimal future hassles, a class experience at the dealership, and a long term holding period of a fine piece of equipment. As far as I can tell, only Lexus delivers that now. Hopefully, someday soon the Germans, the Brits, and the Americans will be able to do it again as well. Yep, I am another Lexus convert- at least for now.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    I would love to continue with BMW. I have leased them since 1993 and am addicted to the ride. I don't believe it is worth the potential risks anymore so I will be going with the LS next summer. The only thing that could change my mind would be a dramatic improvement in the reliability stats for BMW between now and August. I do not anticipate this happening, however. Very sad.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    "I would love to continue with BMW. I have leased them since 1993 and am addicted to the ride. I don't believe it is worth the potential risks anymore…"

    I feel the same way although I am willing to sacrifice a little reliability for the passion of driving a car I love. Then there's styling. BMW is going over my threshhold. They have to shape up before I buy another sedan. The only vehicle that appeals to me is the X3. However my wife and I both love our 03 530 so it's a tale of two cities.

    With regard to retained value I'm not sure BMW can keep this up. I think they are still living off the previous generation.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    According to Automotive Lease Guide

    Luxury Brand Residual Value Rankings
    1 BMW
    2 Lexus
    3 Acura
    4 Mercedes-Benz
    5 Infiniti
    6 Volvo

    Industry Brand Residual Value Rankings
    1 Honda
    2 Toyota
    3 Nissan
    4 Volkswagen
    5 Jeep
    6 Subaru
    7 Mazda
    8 GMC
    9 Chrysler
    10 Ford

    Category Winners
    Compact - Mini Cooper
    Mid Size - Nissan Altima
    Sports - SLK
    Near Luxury - Nissan Infiniti G35
    Luxury - Mercedes CLK
    Mini Van - Honda Odyssey
    Compact SUV - Honda CRV
    Midsize SUV - Toyota 4Runner
    CUV - Volvo XC90
    Full Size SUV - Toyota Sequoia
    Compact Truck - Toyota Tacoma

    Interesting how MB has two category winners yet they are only fourth by brand.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    I am not talking about sacrificing a "little reliability." When and if idrive crashes, the car is completely paralyzed. And according to many 5 series drivers, it can take a long time for the dealer to fix. From the number of complaints posted in various places, it seems too much of a risk to get a 5 series at this time. I would be driving "scared"-always thinking about being stranded-or even worse-a complete power failure at 85 mph on the interstate with a tailgater 5 inches from my rear bumper. That is why I have decided to go with the LS 430 next summer.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    OAC and I are trying hard to find out when the next LS debuts. Consumer reports buying guide says it is 2006 but other places say 2007. My sales guy told me (off the record of course) its spring 2006 as a 2007 but that is not set in stone. I have a feeling they will come out with a 5.0 V8 first then add in the hybrid option and then later roll out that super hybrid with over 600HP they have leaked to the auto mags. Time will tell but just a heads-up to track the development of the new model since August is so nearby to that next car. One thing they will do is spice up the car to the LFS sportier look and continue to tighten up the handling but they will never sacrifice the luxury or spectacular ride quality the car is reknowned for. Even the Eyro suspension maintains nearly all of the great ride.

    Designman - it truly is a great car with reliability that you can bank on. I read that news on the 5 in CR as they felt it gave you everything - sport handling, reliability and plenty of luxury. You know of course the car it displaced was the LS which held that thrown for as long as I can remember. With the 5 falling from grace I would assume the LS is back on top. That 5-series was just a bully. "Now run downstairs and tell Harvey to come on up. HEY HARVEY"!
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Nothin' doin' with Ha-ha-har-r-rvey... says he doesn't want any trouble with Ralph.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    Best line in the latest Automobile Magazine:"idrive works best when parked." Wish I would have thought of that! :)
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    Regarding the new 5 series and 7 series: "BMW, you're breaking our hearts."
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    "As imposing as a 2-ton piranha and about as friendly." From the latest Automobile Magazine.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    You sound like me. BMW is grounded and got sent to their rooms. But you won't get any arguments from the happy campers around here ;-) They'll just add fuel to the fire.


    In the 5-series threads a lot of this got discussed last year and many were POed, livid. Now that there are a lot of new 5-series owners the moaning has died down. But the schism continues. Some previously loyal BMW owners want no part of these new cars and I think it will be this way for several years if not forever.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    Between the off-putting new "look" and the needless complexity, what in heavens name were they thinking? Count me as one of those former BMW people. It looks like there may be a Lexus LS 430 in my future and I cannot believe I am saying that unless another car comes along before summer with incredible power and BMW-like ride and handling in the 50-60k range to change my mind. Lexus GS 430? Infinity M45? We'll see.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129 p;am- p;am- p;n=156


    The fender flares may be a little excessive but I think it looks pretty cool.
  • vic6vic6 Posts: 2
    contemplating buying a 2005 A8 or A8L and hoping to hear from owners about their experiences, especially service and dealer issues as i have been spoiled buy japanese ownership.
  • pablo_lpablo_l Posts: 491
    ..notably not being discussed here. I saw it in a car show, and I must say I find it totally overrated from a design standpoint. It's an E class, but with a design language that seems entirely Japanese, and also borrowed from European lower end cars with all those excessively flowing surfaces. And the back seats look even more claustrophobic that in a true coupe... it deserves to flop, and probably will.


    What is neat, however, are the high end luxury hatchbacks that both Audi and VW seem to have penciled into their roadmap, somewhere and somehow. I am a luxury, sporty hatchback fan. If anyone remembers the British Jensen brand they'll know why. Childhood dreams. :-)
  • What's the purpose of the CLS anyway? It's not an S class for sure a stretched and morphed E class with swoopy rear styling that's sure to be a headknocker for the back passengers that has no real true market position IMO. A narrow, niche product at best.


    At least Mazda's RX8 is truely more purposeful as it's billed as a 4 door sports car carrying over from the wonderful Rx8. M.B should focus resources on getting quality up and not putting out cars that have very limited market scope.
  • axel1axel1 Posts: 5
    vic6 - not sure about the dealers yet as I've had one for only 2 weeks, but mine seems like they will be at least fair (brand new dealership). I love this car!!! One intersting thing I almost walked away as they weren't really willing to deal at all. Then they realized I came to them via AAA, and took $2k off the sticker, just like that (I had committed to the deal with $600 off of chrome wheels, but they actually changed it AFTER I was sold).
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Audi and VW make great looking wagons. Saw a new A6 on the road today. Thought it looked quite attractive. The grille didn't look as shocking as when I first saw it.
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