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High End Luxury Cars



  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    Michael - politics will play a huge role too. As technology lowers the need of oil the many Arab countries that depend on it will have serious issues for their economies. They have virtually no other exportable product and the people are poor as it is in most cases. No one is about to make business investments in those countries either. So it is a complex long-term issue for the world community thus the intervention of politics is inevitable.
  • I am personally surprised the Euro guys ran.......I guess it is a testiment to the truth and power of our arguments...

    The bottom line is it will be difficult for them to compete in the luxury car market against a big engined hybrid with the quality of LEXUS......I really see the Germans in a trap, just like Ford and GM who are so tied up by the Unions they really have little chance to be competetive...With the Europeans it is the Socialist Governments and ever increasing regulation and taxes.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    that comments about other Forums members are inappropriate. I would appreciate your cooperation.
  • docnukemdocnukem Posts: 485
    This is not a dig at anyone.

    Is anyone here happy that there is a new board for "Euro" luxury sedans? All this does is split what should be one board for all luxury sedans. Now, all of us interested in luxury sedans have one more board to subscribe to. So is this board left to discuss only Japanese, American, and non-euro luxury? No. Posters on the other board will probably want to check here as well as post here any information they might want to pass along. There are lumpers and there are splitters. This seems like a pointless and needless split.

    I understand that those who started the other board are tired of endless arguments about which brand is better. In the immortal words of Monty Python, "Let's not argue about who killed who...". Why can't we just discuss the merits of the cars rather than bashing a brand because we don't like it or a particular car of that brand? Anecdotes are fine as long as they don't become sweeping generalizations or accusations. To quote another source (Rodney King), "Why can't we all just get along?"
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594

    Since you acquiesced tp the creation of an Euro High-End forum, maybe you should rename this forum non-Euro High Luxury End, eh ? Just like Len opined earlier.... That way we all can get to post our parochial feelings about our brand of choice. I don't mean this in a negative way, but simply stating the obvious....
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    It doesn't bother me. It just proves to me the inability of some to handle the brand that is no. 1 in US luxury sales. I only read about 4 or 5 posts over there and cut out when I saw a dig thrown at Lexus buyers. It's not Japanese premium lux vehicles that bother them - it's Lexus. But if they need the confines of Europe only and need to exclude Lexus cars - so be it. Frankly I'm surprised a board like that is allowed to exist. But I have no desire to post, or even read a multi car board that needs its isolation.
  • paldipaldi Posts: 210
    This discussion should stay High End Luxury. If the Japanese and Americans want a separate forum, then start one and see if it floats. The Euro guys can still come here and go there. The grudge was getting in the way of the discussion IMHO. Everybody seems happy on the Euro side at present. The manufacturers seem to buy from the same tech suppliers and have a lot in common including executive staff cross-polination... :)
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    "And Toyota-GM collaboration continues to baffle me. On the one hand, Toyota is shooting for #1 in worldwide unit car sales by 2010 (saw an article in the WSJ last week talking about this wrt the new Hilux Toyota is rolling out to developing countries), OTOH, they are working with their competitor to bring new technology to the market. A competitor they do not really need, or do they ??? Baffling ! "

    It really shouldn't baffle.

    First, it lowers costs for both GM and Toyota.

    Second, at a time when GM is struggling, Toyota is trying to to keep the possibility of a foreign backlash to a minimum in the US.

    Third, With fuel cells or any other technology that replaces the ICE, there will need to be new infrastructure to fuel the cars. If you have several big carmakers coming out with different types of fuel cell vehicles, the possibility of having different types of infrastructure heightens. IF the 2 biggest car companies jointly develop, it leaves less room for multiple types of fuel cell vehicles, and therefore simplifies infrastructure.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    Makes perfect sense. Thanks for such an eloquent answer....Did you say you were a car salesman in years past, Max ?
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    Plus both companies have worked together well in the past. It's the Exxon involvement that makes this so promising.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    "Did you say you were a car salesman in years past, Max ? "

    Why yes.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    The new discussion is proving to be very popular.

    This discussion was created to include all high end marques (although most of you didn't include all of them, as we all know). It actually has quite a history; you can tell that just by the numbers of posts alone. It will remain available for those who want to discuss all high end marques. If/when participation stops, it will archive itself. In this case, there's no need for any interference by me in any of these things.

    I don't know whether it will succeed, but yes, if someone wants to create some other High End discussion, we can certainly give it a try.

    Someone made a comment about "exclusionary" discussions. We have them all over the place. Subjects other than what is named in the topic title are generally excluded by definition. The subject of a discussion, generally speaking, needs to be a broad enough topic to sustain thoughtful conversation. The new discussion certainly fits that criterion just as this one does.

    Obviously, everyone is free to participate in whichever discussions interest them and ignore the ones that don't.

    In any case, we are here to talk about the cars - we need to return to doing just that. Discussion management and/or the behavior of some Forums members is not the topic here. :)

    I'm sure everyone knows or can obtain my email address (click on my name) if you have anything further to say. Just please give me a chance to answer you instead of coming here and posting about it. Believe it or not, I am not around 24/7. ;)

  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    OAC - I have the GX lease due in 12/06 and the LS430 lease due in 4/07. If Lexus has the LS430 hybrid out in that time frame I'm going for it over a gas LS430. On the SUV side I'm not sure when they roll out hybrids for the GX and LX. I may extend my GX lease to wait for one. By the way between both the GX and LS I have another flawless 33K miles. I'm now at 330K flawless Lexus miles and my mom is at 145K flawless Camry miles. My 95 LS400 is still going with 300K miles.That's confidence inspiring.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    and I'm not sure why some of you thought that I did not... :confuse:

    Posts addressing the recent off-topic subjects here have been removed.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    You know by now how my 100K+ 1999 LS400 is doing - flawless, as well.

    The roadmap for Lexus in the next 18 months are listed below:

    April 2005
    '06 RX400h

    September 2005
    '06 LX470 with the bigger motor
    '06 SC430 refreshed

    October 2005
    '06 IS250
    6 speed stick & slush box
    $32K and up

    '06 IS350
    - 6-speed slushbox ONLY (sadly)
    - 325+hp
    - "Sport Package" option w/18" wheels
    - top out $45k

    March 2006
    '07 ES350: 3.5L motor and a new sheet metal.

    April 2006
    '07 RX350: 3.5L motor as in the ES

    May 2006
    '07 GS450h: V6-h, will be faster than the GS430

    September 2006
    '07 LS460
    '07 LS460h with 2 body styles, one 6" longer than regular LS
    '07 GS350
    '07 GS460

    MY2008/2009 - projections !
    IS vert, w/retractable hard top
    "Super LS" (>$100K)
    "SuperCoupe" projected speed >200 MPH
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    YOu forget that somewhere in there(probably in the next 1-2 years) we may very well see a production version of the Lexus HPX, something like a 7-seater wagon with AWD.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    No one has heard of the HPX making it to production. Do you have any info on this car/cross-over ?
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    No, I haven't seen any concrete info on the HPX production version.

    But you remember the original RX300?? Nobody heard anything about it until very close to launch.

    Don't forget MB has the R-class coming out and rumor is BMW is working on something similar, not to mention the Audi Q7 will be in this territory also. I would bet Lexus will green light the HPX for production, if it hasn't already.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    Maxhonda - the HPX is what I want as my suv replacement asssuming it's an AWD vehicle and seats 7. In the very stylish look it had at the NY auto show that thing will be a smash hit. The crowd was very excited by that HPX..

    The MB looks awful and had a better look in its early sketches. Let's hope Lexus stays true to the design it has already showed us.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    I don't think the R-class Benz looks too great either. The rearmost pillar looks exactly the same as on the Chrysler Pacifica. Imagine that...Chrysler and Mercedes styling slowly merging!! I'm not to fond of the headlights either.
    It's got a sharp interior though and a muscular stance.

    Overall though, I think MB styling is heading downhill. The next S-class looks hideous from spy pics with the Maybach like rear end.

    If the HPX production version comes out close to the HPX concept, it will look good. And, IMO, the new design theme is working well on the GS and IS.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    By the way that Ray Catena dealership in Freehold on Rt 9 is being built and is scheduled to open in September.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    Looks like Lexus may need to stretch this a bit to seat 7. What a great alternative it is though to an SUV for the family. The more I look at it the more I love it and want it.

    It also seems they are very serious about this car. I think it's a great looking car from the back and side but needs some cosmetic fixing in the front end.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    Is a stunner any way you look at it...


    I hope Lexus builds it cos I'd want it too... But I am back in the market for a lightly used LX (preferably an '03 or newer). But I am still finding the prices rather high. I wonder why it is that hard to get a 3-yr-old LX for a decent price ! I just gotta keep searching and waiting, and if I wait long enough to hear about the HPX, I'll just wait long enough to buy one instead....
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    Ah yes....saw the Ray Catena dealer in Freehold coming along. To compete, David Michael MB/Honda/VW is spinning off their Mercedes dealership in a lot right next to the new Lexus store.
  • brightness04brightness04 Posts: 3,151
    > I wonder why it is that hard to get a 3-yr-old LX for a decent price !

    I was in the same boat a couple years ago, before I bought a Highlander Ltd with the $35k or so that I was willing to spend. The usual rule of thumb of half price in 3 does not apply to LX at all, or much of the rest of the Lexus line up for that matter. I did find a few LX on auction by a NYC dealer on Ebay . . . the hitch for me was that the mileages were high.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    You are absolutely right about the 3-yr rule not a factor with many Lexus(es) (Lexi). I suppose because *most* Lexus sedans and trucks are made in Japan, and the LX especially is produced in relatively low enough numbers to keep demand high, and prices high as well. But my search continues... Somewhere out there is an LX with my name (or rather, my wife's name) on it :)
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    OAC - LX has great retention value. It's ride remains phenomenal forever and the the thing is built like a tank. Very hard to get a good buy on the east coast as well. Lexus wants these things back off lease. They must have called me half a dozen times to make sure I was turning mine in rather than taking the purchase option when my lease was coming to an end.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    They must have called me half a dozen times to make sure I was turning mine in rather than taking the purchase option when my lease was coming to an end.

    Not good news for me, Len. It is equally pretty hard to buy from a dealer here on the west coast at a reasonable price. All are so inflated, it is ridiculous ! I am seeing 2001 and 2002's with <60K miles retailing at dealer lots for $40K and up. That is simply unbelievable. I am looking to pay no more than $40K for an '03, but I may have a long time to wait for one at that price. Maybe when the '06 comes out should devalue the '03s a tad. Maybe....
  • brightness04brightness04 Posts: 3,151
    wow, that's quite impressive, a convertible holding the top spot of all vehicles in quality survey. Also, good to see the general doing well in the IQS; hopefully its latest quality improvements are not too little too late. Wish the media would pay more heed to it.
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