High End Luxury Cars

merc1

Did you fail to notice that next to the 10.0 rating it says it is based on only ONE rating??

Yeah I think someone pointed that out about 5 posts back, and? It means that one person did exactly what I stated. They either don't think the BMW's styling is ugly and/or they've overlooked it because of the car's other positive attributes.

M

merc1

A LS400 a head turner? I've never heard that one before.

Seriously though I drove the GS300 again this past Saturday, killing time while a friend closed a deal on a ES330. I was more impressed with it this time around, must have been the handling advantage of the "G-Spider" wheels and tire upgrade this one had. I still can't even begin to like the look though. The giant hatchback look and too much wheelbase make this a very ill-porportioned car to my eye. I hope they don't think this is the way to go with the next LS. Now the IS appears to be a different story, can't wait to see it in person.

Overall the GS is a curious piece. They seemed to have targeted the 5-Series in sporty appeal, but stuck to their traditional roots in interior design. The seating position relative to the dashboard is pure E-Class. The huge center console is anything but sporty, and looks like it belongs in a LS. The whole car does have that cockpit feel that I like, its snug but not confining to me. Really like that. The back seat is tight, but the real problem I think for most is the fact you have to duck to avoid that low slung roof, because once inside I didn't have a problem with the actual room available. Finally the leather seemed really gritty to me, not the smooth stuff you all rave about so much?

M

pat

Frankly, arguing about looks is about one of the dumbest things that happens in this discussion. How a vehicle looks to any observer (no matter how many of them you add up) is very obviously purely subjective.

Why is it so hard to agree to disagree here without adding in sarcasm and derision? If all of you didn't see things through different lenses and come to different conclusions you'd all be the same person.

That's pretty scary! Isn't it? :P

Can't you folks just accept that you have different preferences for whatever reason and just enjoy these cars for what they can and do offer us?

It's really okay to either not comment when you totally disagree with someone or if you must, just say "well, I see it differently" and proceed with your own thoughts. You don't HAVE to be snide about it.

hpowders

I beg to differ. The LS400 is a head turner. Whenever I see one, I turn my head back sharply the other way.

oac

The LS400 is a head turner. Whenever I see one, I turn my head back sharply the other way.

Hehehe, that's funny...

Got a question or two for you: What happens when you see the new Bimmer 6 & 7-series, the Pontiac Aztek, the Buick Rendevouz, or Infiniti QX56 ?? Are you loving these designs ??? Now compare any of these to the LS400 styling....Which one is more timeless and graceful ?

merc1

What happens when you see the new Bimmer 6 & 7-series, the Pontiac Aztek, the Buick Rendevouz, or Infiniti QX56 ?? Are you loving these designs ??? Now compare any of these to the LS400 styling....Which one is more timeless and graceful ?

Yeah I see your point, the Aztek is just plain ugly as is the 7-Series. I differ on the 6-Series though. None of these designs are lovable either so I agree with you there. Problem is that if you have to mention such cars to make a case for the LS400 that means the LS400 is stylistically challenged. I consider the 1995-2000 LS400 to be the ultimate in forgettable blandness and the worst looking of the three LS designs so far. For me to see a car as timeless it has to look good in the first place like a Jaguar XJ or Mercedes CL you know something that has some real "design" to it. That particular LS400 was no different in design from a Toyota and it looked like a logical extension of one.

M

kdshapiro

The new 7 series is destined to be a classic. Other than the 5 people participating in this discussion; the people who 1) either bought the cars or 2) can look at cars are liking the designs.

I don't count automotive journalists opinions either.

ljflx

I'm afraid the media plays a huge role in determing what a classic is. Some of the best language I've seen on the design of the 7-series approaches a 5 on a scale of 1-10. Most is on a level of 2 or 3. If the 7 is destined to be a classic with this media - it is one that is not a classic to be proud of. I think the car has a beautiful aggressive front end that falls apart when you see it from the isde and is a total failure when you see it from the back. That, again is just my opinion. But how you can develop a car with a stunning front-end and a hauntingly miserable back end is a mystery to me. I always thought this car looked like it was put together by two design teams going in opposite directions.

kdshapiro

"I'm afraid the media plays a huge role in determing what a classic is."

The "people" make that choice. Case in point, many people felt the old 3 and 5 series were too bland and not "classic" material at all.

Does it really matter what the media thinks, or what you or I think individually? I say no.

syswei

I drove the GS300 again this past Saturday, killing time while a friend closed a deal on a ES330.

What kind of "friend" are you, letting a buddy buy a Lexus instead of MB?

syswei

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=105484

ljflx

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/05/automobiles/05HYDRO.html?

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/05/automobiles/05AUTO.html

merc1

The new 7 series is destined to be a classic. Other than the 5 people participating in this discussion; the people who 1) either bought the cars or 2) can look at cars are liking the designs.

Sorry, but I'd have to seriously doubt that. The current 7-Series will be remembered, but not as a "classic" imo. If the styling was truly good looking there would be no need for buyers to defend it so much, it would speak for itself. It kinda goes back to that theory I mentioned a few posts ago. I think a lot of BMW loyalist have simply convinced themselves the 7-Series is a good looking car because I don't see how anyone could have been taken with it at first glance. The 7 does have a huge road presence in that BMW aggressive way, but it just isn't a good looking car to my eye. This from a person who loved BMW's styling with very few exceptions up until the last few years.

M

merc1

What kind of "friend" are you, letting a buddy buy a Lexus instead of MB?

A good one. I should have gave more detail I guess. A friend of mine, his mother bought a ES330. She's been buying ES' since 1992.

M

oac

Problem is that if you have to mention such cars to make a case for the LS400 that means the LS400 is stylistically challenged....

That is something we can say about many cars out there today. Style, of course, is in the eye of the beholder. The E and S-class styles are easy on the eye, and not that polarizing. OTOH, the Bimmer is very polarizing and not that easy on the eye. The LS is quite easy on the eye, may not be the most stylistic one of the lux class, but a pleasant-looking car all the same. I'll wager that the next LS will look a whole lot better than the next S-class.

When I look at the new A8, all I see is the grille.... That's not good since the car has so many distinguishing things, especially the interior, but that grill is something else. Not very endearing, imo... Last, but by no means the least is the Jag which is a nice looking, pleasant car in that old British way. I saw the new XK at an auto show earlier this year and it was a beauty if they ever build it *as is*.

merc1

I'll wager that the next LS will look a whole lot better than the next S-class.

Well if that happens it will be a first. We'll see.

Nothing wrong with a pleasant looking car, but in this class I'd like a little more than that, some actual style would be nice. Sure a whole lot of cars that aren't relevant to this board aren't stunners, but to my eye there are plenty of good looking cars out there. So I'm not sure I buy that in as much as it being an excuse. Here though there are only two that don't make the style/design cut, of course as you say all in the eye of the beholder or IMO.

M

oac

Merc1:

Like I wrote in the Futures Board (see below), the scoop pic/sketch of the 2007LS 600h is sweet. Much much better looking than even the current S-class, IMO.

oac, "2007 Lexus LS" #232, 7 Jun 2005 7:34 am

Well if that happens it will be a first. We'll see...

You may not have too long to eat your words.....

merc1

Well like I said we'll see. BTW, I didn't say it was impossible for such a thing to happen (no words to eat). Just highly unlikely. Something tells me though that you'll find the new LS good looking no matter what because Lexus says they have a new design direction, which with the the GS is anything but.

M

ljflx

OAC - Motor Trend did a comparo this month with the Buick Lacrosse, Chrysler 300 touring, Ford 500 Ltd, Kia Amati, Nissan Maxima SE and the Toyota Avalon touring. Believe it or not the Avalon won by a decent margin. But the keys I took from the article was a six second flat 0-60 time for the Avalon from a V6 and the Avalon doing spectacular on the skidpad. Now a 0-60 time like that from a V6 Avalon tells you where they will go with the next LS, particularly that powerful hybrid. The skidpad tells you where a really sport LS GT (not this half hearted Euro suspension, which is damm good in the first place) will end up. The latter may offset the great ride too much so I'd see it as a limited edition car. But one thing for sure, Lexus has already done a lot of damage with a single edition car and now it is really going to turn up the heat with this 2007 car and its variant editions.

merc1

Actually it was Car and Driver.

Why is it a surprise that the Avalon won? Without having to look at it, the stats themselves add up to a winner in the family sedan category.

M

kdshapiro

My wife and I looked at the new Avalon and while we don't agree on much we agree on this. Would we be considering a car in the price range of the new Avalon, we would up the ante a few nickels and get the new E90 330. And, we already have a Toyota in the family.

oac

Kd: I am shocked that you would rather buy a 330i over the Avalon ! :blush: These two cars are not even close to being comparable. But I grant you the fact that the 330i is a darn fine car, just too spartan (interior and exterior) for my liking. But no denying its handling and driving prowess....The car to beat in its class, no doubt, so I won't begrudge a Bimmer fanatic like you prefering it to a Toy family sedan.

BUT, can you imagine a 5AT V6 280HP family sedan from Toyota, an Avalon no less, doing a flat 6s 0-60mph ? That is simply outstanding ! Which leads me to think that the smaller, hopefully lighter IS350/6AT with 30 more ponies, and an extra cog on the tranny, should do close to 5s 0-60 flat ? I'd surely hope so, otherwise Lexus is playing some voodoo with this 2GR engine, or with the steel on the IS350.... or both...

oac

Probably should have checked my voice mail earlier. Just found out my wife crashed my dear LS400 against an F350 4x2 CC yesterday. And she was at-fault. Oh my ! At least she is fine, but my poor LS now needs a lot more than a stolen turn signal. The entire front bumper needs to be replaced. Add in the cost of fixing the other guy's truck ($900 estimate from body shop), and I am just not a happy camper at all.

Why do our wives prefer their spouse's car rather than theirs ???? I mean, she had two other cars besides mine, but she'd rather drive my LS. I am bummed... Two years ago or so, she rammed the door of our little Matrix against the post in the garage. Cost the insurance $2000 to fix ($500 deductible lighter in my pocket). If this continues, I don't see how I'll ever buy another LS cos I have no chance to ever drive it...

What string of bad luck for my LS since Memorial day !!

kdshapiro

The rags dump on the clutches and transmissions to get the low times. With one exception, supercharged Mustang, most normal folk would not want to launch cars they way the mags do. The only exception other than the Mustang, are the Subies, who people say can take full clutch dumps all day long.

So yes 6 seconds is great, but not something I would want to try with mine. But it's good for a measure to see how it could do getting the heck beat out of it.

edit - just saw your other post, sorry to read about the mishap. Hopefully only the sheetmetal was damaged.

maxhonda99

"The rags dump on the clutches and transmissions to get the low times."

The Avalon is a automatic. You can't exactly dump a clutch on a automatic.
The Avalon was brake torqued, which is no where near as stressful on a car.

kdshapiro

True. All you do is run the torque converter and stress the tranny. But other than that, there's no stress on the car. :surprise:

kdshapiro

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=105899

syswei

"Toyota Motor Corp. plans to raise the prices on most of its models in the United States to help its struggling rivals in Detroit and to prevent trade friction from erupting, company sources said. The price hikes of 2 percent to 3 percent will likely start in October, they said."

full article
http://www.asahi.com/english/Herald-asahi/TKY200506100224.html

kdshapiro

Toyota probably needs to increase prices with the recent recall of 700,000 vehicles. Ouch.

ljflx

Somehow I think their excuse is purely a cover-up for the weak dollar. 700K vehicles - eh - maybe it puts a tiny dent of $50mil or so of their $14bil after tax profit machine. But thean again their whole financial outlook is tied to an exch rate of 105 and the real rate is higher.