As for the two stereo systems, Yes there are very similar, but not identical. The Amp bypass should work the same, and they should get similar results. But they are also doing it at their own risk.... I recomend just going nuts and doing what I did. Sounds REAL nice... I can't wait to finish it when the $$$ let me do so. Have another $7K or so to put into it.
As for the antenna wire on the C1 connector. Um, not sure. There is not power antenna, but this stereo is also designed to fit into other GM models. Maybe a buick or something has this feature.
Have been reading these posts and others on the impala site for a few weeks now and I'm convinced... I too think my stereo sounds like crap, after playing my best quality cd I'm now sure I'm going to try this bypass. My father in law is the man on this deal though and he will be reading these posts and we will try this together I will post my results...
For those that have posted here asking about the amp bypass on the Monte, I just tried it on mine and it works fine. I need to come up with a good way to hold the wires in place and will look through some of my electronics catalogs to see if a suitable matching connector can be located that will mate with the factory connector. Big difference in sounds, and yes, watch that bass control if you like it loud!
Glad to hear it works with your too. If you feel like taking another step in modifying the system, let me know. I can give you some tips on what to do if you ever want to just go nuts with it...
Wow, I had not idea I would get things moving for the Monte Carlo people. Duraflex, I appreciate your fast reply. I check the postings at work on Friday to find that overnight there were plenty of replies and even a post on the Monte Carlo site. I'm glad I piped in!
I do have a technical question though: how did you come to the correct pins to jumper? Did anyone put a continuity tester across the pins on the amplifier (I don't know if that would provide any useful information...again I'm mechanical and not electrical)? Also, if the amp was meant to reduce the apparently already amplified signal coming from the head unit, why not just add a voltage (or current) regulator/limiter to keep the signal from blowing the speakers. Perhaps this is the way to go...
I'll be taking delivery of my MC SS on Tuesday, and one of the first things I plan on doing is bypassing the amp (at my own risk). Duraflex, I do understand your concerns about blaring the stereo, and I agree; I do listen responsibly (but have you ever noticed how many people drive with walkmens on???)
Thanks again for the help. I think GM should get an earful from all of us!
well i've been reading the bypass posts for a few days now and decided to give it a try on my new monte carlo SS. my results, however, were not as good. when i turned the radio back on, there was hardly any bass at all. the highs and midrange were great, but the bass (or lack thereof) was pitiful. there are a couple reasons for this i think 1. i had already replaced the 6x9's on the back deck with some Cerwin Vega 3-ways. (model # ss-2693). perhaps they just require much more power to push the cone than the factory speakers do. when i have them hooked up w/ the amp, they sound great and have plenty of bass, but when i bypassed the amp it lost all bass.
2. i used very small gauge (maybe too small) single gauge wire, not stranded. i had to double the ends over so it would stay in the plug socket. maybe the wire wasnt getting all the power to the speakers??
i also noticed that when i had the amp bypassed there was a random clicking noise coming from the front speakers which leads me to believe i might have done something wrong when wiring it. i am sure that i matched up the right wires, but if anyone could give me some suggestions to try it again with better luck, i would sure appreciate it. if the problem is that my new 6x9's just requier more power, even if it is distorted, then i'll just have to live with it. i dont want to go to the trouble of re-installing the factory speakers to find out if its worth putting them back in. but anyone could tell me how to do it a better way or a better kind of wire/connector to use, it would be of great help. radio shack said they had nothing that would work. thanks
WOW what a difference in sound quality, i want to thank jreimann for your info. I also would like to thank all you good people that solved this situation (one that should not have occured) I can't believe the difference in sound quality. Are we as a group going to call GM on a specific date? I believe they owe us something.
You may not have a problem when you get your car. It may have a new, redesigned amp. Write that ron4 MC owner and get his story. He's happy with his amp!
For now, just wait and see. If you do have a problem, contact MC owner indydan to see if he did anything different in his bypass.
Drivers wearing Walkman earphones? - haven't seen it but don't doubt it. Stupidity has no bounds. The 13 year old next door walks out every morning with his phones on and he's clearly in another world. If he gets hit by a truck coming around a corner that he couldn't hear, it won't be a surprise.
I am not an audio engineer but I'll try to help from my hands-on experience.
When the factory amp WAS connected, your CW rear deck 6x9s had only a little more bass. Right? Are you sure you had the + wire to the + terminal on the speakers themselves? Proper polarity (+ to + and - to -) is ESSENTIAL for getting full bass.
When the amp was connected, what was the volume level on the front door factory speakers when the CWs were installed. Was it louder in the front? If so, that would have confirmed that the GM speakers were more efficient than the CWs - simply meaning they required less power to get more volume.
WITH THE BYPASS Are you 100 percent sure that all your connections are correct?
"Clicking" sounds like bad connections - loose jumpers or something like that.
Okay, back to the rear and the factory 6x9s. Of course you don't want to rip out the back seat again to see if they would sound better than the CWs. How about running 4 ft jumper speaker wires from the C1 plug instead? Just lay the factory 6x9s in the trunk to hear them.
You could try this: A3 RR (-) to RR (-) speaker terminal A4 RR (+) to RR (+) speaker
B3 RR (-) to LR (-) speaker B4 RR (+) to LR (+) speaker
Understand they will not sound great because they are not mounted in their "enclosures" but you will get enough of an idea to know if you like them.
I think I used 20 gauge wire, another fellow used 18 gauge with his makeshift RS plugs.
REMEMBER - all this experimenting is AT YOUR OWN RISK.
Looking back, your posts #218 and 229 seem to contradict one another in terms of the CerwinVega performance.
FORGET THE C1 info above - I cannot be sure they are the numbered holes to feed from.
Anyway, second thought - IF you retry the 6x9 GMs in the trunk, run the wires from the speaker feeds to the rear deck instead of from the C1 plug. When you're doing it, power off (of course) and disconnect the CVs FIRST before pigtailing to the GMs.
Make sure the speaker polarity ( +,- ) is correct. I've worked on many sound systems in cars, and this is a very common mistake. By not getting the polarity correct, you will put your speakers out of phase and this will cancel a lot of the bass.
Was driving my truck around saturday,, Had to get some wood from the hardware store for my Impala system. Noticed either I blew an Amp or my sub is blown. Err... I think it's time ot update the Truck system anyway. I've won trophies with it in the past, but she's not currently up to par... At least the subs in the Impala seem to working fine.
I keep reading that if you buypass the amp, you should "watch your bass, not crank it up, etc". What's the deal with that? How much is too much? Has anyone tried to crank it up? What the highest BASS and VOLUME setting that you folks have used?
I really want to do the buypass, but not if I have to worry every time I feel like cranking it up. Was the difference in sound quality that much that it would make each of you keep the buypass in place?
There really is not "Set" level of bass. It depends on what song you are listening to, how clean the recording, and how loud you have it. All you gotta do is listen for distortoin. If you hear the music start distorting, then you need to turn it down. Even with the factory Amp you still need to watch out for this, but the Amp was also acting as a bass filter and prevented some bass from getting to the speaker. Without the Amp, the chances are a little greater that you may send a distorted signal from too much volume. If you listen at a normal listening level, and turn it down when it starts to distort, then you will be fine.
It's a risk - reward situation. If you don't take the risk (amp bypass), there's no chance of a reward (better sound).
IF you always keep the tone in MANUAL, IF you always keep the bass to the LEFT of center, If you don't play it above MODERATE volume, THEN you will probably be okay.
NO GUARANTEES!
It costs next to nothing. You don't cut any wires on your car. It takes less than an hour. It's reversible - unlike a heart bypass.
If you don't like it, just pull the little homemade jumper wires on the C1 plug. Reconnect it and the power plug to the amp and you're back where you started. No harm done.
How many different CDs have you tried? Are they all louder than the radio? Do you notice that CDs vary from one to another? Are some louder than others?
Do you notice that radio stations vary in volume (level) and fidelity from one to the other? Do you live at some great distance from stations? How does the tape volume compare to the CD and radio?
My point is there are many, many variables.
In general, my Impala CD player, FM radio and tape cassette player all put out about the same level or volume of sound. I live in a very big city with powerful transmitters that are not more than 15 miles away. Fidelity still varies.
My best guess is that the volume relationship (or ratio) on YOUR sound system will vary to the same degree without the amp as it does now. However - it may be MORE NOTICEABLE because there will definitely be more bass.
Before you try the bypass, I would suggest you go to your dealer and listen to another car with the same audio pkg as yours. Listen for the degree of change among audio sources on that car.
If it's significantly less variable than on your Impala, you MIGHT want to think about having them adjust/replace your dash unit. However, they could do more harm than good. That's always my concern. If it sounds the same as yours - as I suspect it will - chalk it up to location and learn to live with it.
With my amp bypassed, my Impala audio is plenty loud with more than enough bass. I ALWAYS keep it on MANUAL tone control with the bass set left of center. Sounds good to me.
Don't cut any car wires and you can easily switch it back.
The same radio RDS unit as the Impala/Montecarlo. The export right hand version of the Chevy Cavalier (Marketed in Japan as a Toyota)features this same radio. The US Chevy Cavalier features a more simple Delco Unit:
There has been a lot of warnings about bypassing the amp (there is so much bass that you might blow your speakers). Just us common sense when turning up the bass and volume like you would on any stereo system car or home. What we basically did was to just unlugged the amp. In doing so, we have the same stereo as the standard RDS system w/o the amp. And... we haven't seen any posts or warnings about people blowing speakers because of to much bass with the standard RDS stereo. So... Try it. You'll like it.
before i start, id like to thank duraflex for his help and information. well the bypass didn't give me good results the first time, so i tried it again......this time i replaced the 6x9's with the stock speakers that came in the car. (i upgraded to cerwin vega's last month and have had them in until i tried this). so my setup was exactly like everyone else's. i used rockford fosgate 18 gauge wire and bypassed the amp. all of my wiring and connections were perfect and i turned the key. unfortunately, i was not very impressed with the difference. there are a few reasons that could be the cause of this, however none of them are error on the bypass. the "huge amounts of bass" that everyone has mentioned were only present at low volumes. it was like you get high volume bass with low volume highs.....then when you crank up the master volume, the bass doesn't increase much and the highs get distorted. i love to listen to my music loud and i couldn't live with the volume restrictions of a bypasses amp. i do have to say, though, that the radio clarity was a definite improvement, but when i put a cd in there was hardly any difference. this might be because the cerwin vegas i have now ( i put them back in after i hooked my amp back up) sound much better than the stock 6x9's - amp or no amp. i get plenty of bass out of my new speakers and it gives more of a surroud feeling because of the increased highs. im glad all of you like your bypssed amps, but i guess its just not for everyone. i am just as much as of an audio fanatic as anyone on this forum, but i like my setup better with the amp. my next step might be to replace the 6 1/2 components up front with some cerwin vega or rockford fosgate components...and add a 4 channel fosgate amp to run them. this would be my own version of amp "bypass". thanks again to all who helped and gave info, it was worth a try. and just a suggestion to those who don't want to bypass their amp.....i STRONGLY recommend the cerwin vega 6x9's i have (model # ss-2693). they add a little more bass than the stock speakers and have greatly improved highs and midrange sound. the reason i picked these was because cerwin vega is the leader when it comes to bass and i dont think a pair of sony's or pioneer's would be much of an improvement over the stock speakers. happy listening!
I need a technical response from one of you audio experts. I have the trunk mounted amp in my LS and have been following this bypass solution. I agree that the sound system as it is now is not very good. My question is what purpose does the trunk mounted amp fulfill. I always thought an amp was suppose to make the sound more fuller and richer. Why does this amp seem to do just the opposite. Did I pay for something that was just not needed!
Sorry to hear you are still not happy. I had the same problem. Cerwin is a good speaker to install if you want more bass. I think the Sony speakers are average, and the Pioneers seem to be better at producing Mid-Bass and highs. I went with the MB Quarts in mine. Had a good overall Frequincy responce and could handle a lot of power efficiantly at the same time. However, when replacing the factory Amp, if you do not replace the factory Head unit, you will have the same issue you have now. Adding an aplifier to the Factory Head unit would mean amplifying an already amplified source. This could lead to a lot of distortion and would mean you may have to turn the bass down to keep from blowing speakers. (Same thing the stock Amp does.) An aftermarket Head unit would give you pre-amp outs that would allow you to connect an amp to the low level and give you a lot better sound. This is where the problem comes in. To remove the factory head unit would mean loosing those extra features GM incorporated into the stereo. This is where I found the need to just add a second head unit. If you looking for the best sound without disableing features in the car, then this may be the best solution until someone comes out with an adapter that gets around this (Not anytime soon). Check out my site for my Impala, you can see what I did to "Fix" my system... http://www.myloudcar.com
to smithy: i have been dealing with mobile one car audio for the idea of a possible amp replacement. i understand that it could do the same as the factory amp does as far as distorting the signal....but isn't that what a pac convertor is for? it takes the signal (either from the head unit or out of the amp) and converts it to a low-level signal. then out of the pac converter it runs RCA cables to an aftermarket amp. it seems to work well with all other factory systems, but can you think of a reason why it wouldn't work with my monte? i'd want to be sure that it works before i do it. thanks
I called the Chevrolet line today, spoke to Allen Hall. He claims he has not heard of this problem. Told me he would call me back, I figured he wouldn't, within 10 min. he called back with a tech by the name of Randy. Randy was very interested, confirmed what we already know about amplifying an amplified signal. Told me he would check into it and call. Will keep you posted
Yeah, I tried that for the subwoofer Amps. Before I had the aftermarket deck installed I was running a Line-Out converter (PAC) from the rear channel and into the Sub Amps. I noticed when the gain on the converter was too high, and the gain on the Amps was too high I got nothing but distortion (yuck). In order to make it sound half way desent you gotta do one of 2 things. Either turn the gain down and listen at a lower volume, or turn the bass down. I ended up doing a combination of both to get as much as possible out of it. But,,, After adding the aftermarket head unit, big difference. Your biggest single improvment of sound will come from replacing the factory head unit. (Provided you don't buy a Jensen or Craig.) After that things just get easier to upgrade and make better.
thanks for the info, ill definintely keep that in mind. i would still like to add the amp but i guess i probably should get a big amp (like a fosgate 400a4 or 600a4) so that i can keep the gain down and the volume up. thanks again
Not bad. Get the 600a4 fow louder main speakers. Or if you can the 600a5 if you want to do the single amp running everything including subs... Let me know how that goes. You gonna put a couple subs in there as well? That way you can leave the bass out of the main spaekers and run the bass through the subs only. Soon as I get the $$$ together, I will hopefully be installing a couple XTant amps. 604X and 1001X. I like the filter options that can be installed into the amps. When you are done, put a site together and I'll link to my domain... http://www.myloudcar.com
This is my first post here, but as I'm planning to buy an Impala in the next month or so, I thoroughly appreciate all of the work you've all gone through to "fix" this situation and I plan to use the Amp Bypass as well.
I was wondering if anyone has information on the mating connector to the C1 plug going to the amp. What I'd like to do is build the "jumpering" into the backshell of a mating connector to the C1 plug. That way, the wires wouldn't be exposed and the integration would look a little nicer. Also, I'd like to be able to build this bypass before I get the car, so that as soon as I pull it into my garage at home, I can just unplug the two connectors to the amp and then add the bypass connector (which I'll build in the backshell of the C1 mating connector).
Any information that you have would be greatly appreciated. And thanks again for all the time spent on coming up with a temporary fix for the problem.
No one has yet come up with a source for a single 24 pin male connector. Read back and one poster describes how he used the two 12 pin sides of two 25 pin connectors.
If you come up with a 25 pin mate, please be sure to post the info here for the rest of us.
I'm still waiting, I'll give them until next Wednesday. If I don't hear from them I'll call again. Sometimes you have to be a squeaky gear. I will keep you all posted.
OK, so I got a late season Monte and you want to know if the stereo sounds any better and if they started using a different amp...well, I'm sad to say that the amp Model # and Ref # from post 213 for the Monte are the same on my amp...doh!
I do agree...the stereo in the 91 Cavalier that I sold had much more bass. I could not push the little lever up all the way for fear that I might have blown the speakers (small as they were). This new "higher end" system is not all it's cracked up to be. I do miss the bass. I may be able to play games with the balance and fader, the bass and treble, but I think that will only mask the problem. I'm probably doing to try the bypass this weekend when I have the time to do it right.
What did astound me is when I popped my DJ Jazzy Jeff and Fresh Prince CD (hey, I grew up in the 80's and the Fresh Prince is the only really good rap music...Summer Time is a great song for this time of year). The bass just jumped out at me! The music actually sounded good, and the car was vibrating with bass...what does that say? If anyone has access to a bassie (sp?) CD give it a try and see what you think.
I'm going to check the catalogues at work for a possible jumper connector. Has anyone else checked Newark Electronics or MacMaster Carr?
You probably know that CDs inherently have somewhat wider frequency response than FM or most cassette tape. Lower lows and higher highs.
Also, some CD producers deliberately boost the bass during manufacture on certain types of music for effect. The "kid" who lived next door enjoyed that stuff at high volume for years. At 30, he wears a hearing aid - literally. --------------
If you locate those amp connector plugs, please post.
I tried the amy bypass on my 2000 Monte and it worked! I compared several CDs. On my Crystal Method - Las Vegas the bass sounded REALLY deep and full. The Dies Irae movement of Verdi's Requiem sounded better. My Van Halen also sounded better. I did not do a great deal of comparing, but the difference is there. I removed the bypass to compare more, but when I tried to reinsert the wires, the strands came loose and I got frustrated. Based on this experience, I would suggest (at your own risk) to use either 14 or maybe even 12 gage solid conductor wire (I used 16 gage multi-strand wire). Or, if you use multi-strand, it would be a good idea to tin the leads (which is what I did, but now it's too dark to play around). Again, it does work for the MC as well. Sound is a matter of personal preference, but I can tell a difference just by keeping the bass at the same level with the amp bypassed and not bypassed. I will experiment more, and I do want to make sure that there are not repercussions, but I think this is a classic work around similar to what you find in buggy software. I think Chevy owes us something...
I meant "amp", not "amy"...If I knew an Amy, I may not try to bypass her... Oh, and I also started looking through the Newark Electronics catalog, and I have not found anything yet...
I test drove a loaded impala ls before i read the posts from everyone in the impala radio town hall. i was NOT going to shell out 25K for a car that had that DISAPPOINTING of a stereo!
until i read these postings (of which read better than a novel!) i had given up on this car. Finally, with the solution in hand i am now the proud owner of a beautiful black fully loaded impala 2000.
i only chose to post to say thanks, i am doing the bypass this weekend and from what i read it will be worth the risk/time. i have all the information i need the wire gauge, the schematic everything.
keep on posting !!(i am curious to a cleaner solution utilizing electrical connectors)
Hopefully, the 24 pin male connector I ordered will arrive sometime next week and I can construct my amp bypass gizmo. Referring back to post #268, I saw that it was intended for thinner gauge wire, but I believe this is if you are planning on connecting something like a ribbon cable to the connector, and is the actual rating, or specification. I intend on using a heavier gauge wire to use for the jumpers when I solder it all together. If there is a plastic cover involved, it looks to me like the holes could be reamed out slightly larger to accommodate a larger diameter, maybe the size of the wire on the existing harness. Also, since we are not dealing with a lot of current/power here in addition to what amounts to maybe an inch or so of actual wire, I don't think it's going to be all that critical. Anything has got to be better than just poking random lengths of wire into the existing amp connector, praying that it all holds together. I am just keeping my fingers crossed that it mates correctly with the amp female connector. If it works out like I *think* it will, you'll know here first. After playing around some more with the radio and some of my CD's, the bass really seems dependent on the source material. I also filled out my survey for my Monte Carlo from Chevrolet today, In the comments area, I made a note that I thought the amplifier was a piece of crap and should be recalled...a total waste of money. Will be interesting to see if I hear back from them on that one.
I cannot describe the difference. What is unbelievable is that someone somewhere in quality assurance thought that this was a good idea! I mean someone had the idea to add the extra amplifier and someone ok'd that! WOW!
I need help with connectors. I went with 14 gauge solid copper wire. It was a bit of hassle with bending but worked. And I tried to do some jury rigging with electrical tape to make it 'secure'. No avail, I have already had one connection fail and I could actually notice it with the sound. Unlike b/4 where everything sounded bad.
Are there connectors (what size) that you can 'crimp' on the end to make the connection better? I am a little paranoid that I am going to manhandle the plug and I then will be sunk!
By the way the trunk is big enough to hold a 6' 1" 200lb man with room to spare.
I have just finished the amp bypass aadn while I was at it I installed 2 6 x 9 Infinity 8913I from Crutchfield for $99. It was well worth the effort. The easiest way to do the bypass is with 3M scotchlok connectors. I think they are 357 type. Most some auto stores and electronic stores should carry them. They are used to make a pigtail connection, this means both wires lay side by side in the connector. All you do is insert the wires without crimping and close the top. Some other types are for splicing trailer wiring but those feed thru, this type is a solid end with out the feed thru. Mine were red in color. The front speakers are another story. Luckily for us GM used a non-standard size so anything we do will have to be modified. I will be going to a stereo shop to find an adaptor so my 6.5" Infinity speakers will fit. These were only $69. I still think spending $175 is too much to spend to upgrade a factory system that was an upgrade to begin with, but I was not going to wait to a factory solution. Good luck for anyone trying this, it is not hard to do at all. Time involved with removing the seat, back shelf, etc plus installing the speakers was about 2 hrs. This did include the amp bypass though.
so how do those 6x9's sound w/o the amp? i have cerwin vega 6x9's in mine and they weren't getting nearly enough power to sound good, perhaps thats just because they have a greater power handling than the infinitys. and about the 6.5's, i replaced mine last week with some polk audio 6.5 components. they fit just fine, they were just a tiny bit smaller than the stock ones but i just drilled some new holes in the plastic housing and they sound absolutely great. just as a suggestion, you might not want to use those infinity 6.5's. the stock speakers are a component set ( 6.5" mid woofer and a 1" tweeter) and they probably sound better than a 6.5 coaxial. i've been dealing w/ car audio for a very long time and coaxials get distorted when the volume is turned up. also, unless you plan to go full out on the system, it took a little work to replace the components. i had to un-sauder the tweeter wires from the woofer and then find a way to mount the new tweeters on the housing that the speakers sit in. if you use the coaxials then you will have to remove the tweeter or just not use it. and if you go w/ components, you have to find a place to put the crossover, i velcroed mine to the bottom of the door and it worked out quite well. so far i've spent $350 on my speaker upgrades (150 for the 6x9's and 200 for the component set) but the head unit does not put out enough power for those speakers to sound good with a bypassed amp so i have the amp hooked up for now until i upgrade to an aftermarket 4 channel amp, probably a rockford fosgate 400a4 ( thats another $400+ ouch!) good luck to all and if anyone has any questions about replacing the door components speakers please ask and i'll be glad to help out. i hope my rambling isn't too confusing, sorry if it is. happy listening!
Glad you like the bypass. It really does sound better doesn't it?
What - if any - advantage do the 6x9 Infinitys offer over the factory speakers in the rear?
If you do choose to replace the front door speakers, 6-3/4" will fit existing holes exactly. I found that the Pioneers I had bought did NOT sound as good as the stock speakers!(See post 188)
Anything new on your complaint to GM? Many of us feel they owe us something.
feydogindy indicated in post #273 that he had experienced a connection failure. I was wondering if anyone else has had that problem with their bypass. I will be buying a 2000 Impala in 2 weeks and would like to know what else I might be up against.
From what I've read here, everyone seems to be quite happy with their bypass, but I wanted to make sure that when I do the bypass, I don't have to fix the connections once a week.
Comments
http://www.myloudcar.com
As for the two stereo systems, Yes there are very similar, but not identical. The Amp bypass should work the same, and they should get similar results. But they are also doing it at their own risk....
I recomend just going nuts and doing what I did. Sounds REAL nice...
As for the antenna wire on the C1 connector. Um, not sure. There is not power antenna, but this stereo is also designed to fit into other GM models. Maybe a buick or something has this feature.
Hmmm,,, Different...
Big difference in sounds, and yes, watch that bass control if you like it loud!
If you feel like taking another step in modifying the system, let me know. I can give you some tips on what to do if you ever want to just go nuts with it...
I do have a technical question though: how did you come to the correct pins to jumper? Did anyone put a continuity tester across the pins on the amplifier (I don't know if that would provide any useful information...again I'm mechanical and not electrical)? Also, if the amp was meant to reduce the apparently already amplified signal coming from the head unit, why not just add a voltage (or current) regulator/limiter to keep the signal from blowing the speakers. Perhaps this is the way to go...
I'll be taking delivery of my MC SS on Tuesday, and one of the first things I plan on doing is bypassing the amp (at my own risk). Duraflex, I do understand your concerns about blaring the stereo, and I agree; I do listen responsibly (but have you ever noticed how many people drive with walkmens on???)
Thanks again for the help. I think GM should get an earful from all of us!
1. i had already replaced the 6x9's on the back deck with some Cerwin Vega 3-ways. (model # ss-2693). perhaps they just require much more power to push the cone than the factory speakers do. when i have them hooked up w/ the amp, they sound great and have plenty of bass, but when i bypassed the amp it lost all bass.
2. i used very small gauge (maybe too small) single gauge wire, not stranded. i had to double the ends over so it would stay in the plug socket. maybe the wire wasnt getting all the power to the speakers??
i also noticed that when i had the amp bypassed there was a random clicking noise coming from the front speakers which leads me to believe i might have done something wrong when wiring it. i am sure that i matched up the right wires, but if anyone could give me some suggestions to try it again with better luck, i would sure appreciate it. if the problem is that my new 6x9's just requier more power, even if it is distorted, then i'll just have to live with it. i dont want to go to the trouble of re-installing the factory speakers to find out if its worth putting them back in. but anyone could tell me how to do it a better way or a better kind of wire/connector to use, it would be of great help. radio shack said they had nothing that would work. thanks
Obviously, individual calls and e-mails on widely scattered days have brought no response.
I'll participate.
See posts #215 and 221
You may not have a problem when you get your car.
It may have a new, redesigned amp. Write that ron4 MC owner and get his story. He's happy with his amp!
For now, just wait and see. If you do have a problem, contact MC owner indydan to see if he did anything different in his bypass.
Drivers wearing Walkman earphones? - haven't seen it but don't doubt it. Stupidity has no bounds.
The 13 year old next door walks out every morning with his phones on and he's clearly in another world.
If he gets hit by a truck coming around a corner that he couldn't hear, it won't be a surprise.
When the factory amp WAS connected, your CW rear deck 6x9s had only a little more bass. Right? Are you sure you had the + wire to the + terminal on the speakers themselves? Proper polarity (+ to + and - to -) is ESSENTIAL for getting full bass.
When the amp was connected, what was the volume level on the front door factory speakers when the CWs were installed. Was it louder in the front?
If so, that would have confirmed that the GM speakers were more efficient than the CWs - simply meaning they required less power to get more volume.
WITH THE BYPASS
Are you 100 percent sure that all your connections are correct?
"Clicking" sounds like bad connections - loose jumpers or something like that.
Okay, back to the rear and the factory 6x9s. Of course you don't want to rip out the back seat again to see if they would sound better than the CWs. How about running 4 ft jumper speaker wires from the C1 plug instead? Just lay the factory 6x9s in the trunk to hear them.
You could try this:
A3 RR (-) to RR (-) speaker terminal
A4 RR (+) to RR (+) speaker
B3 RR (-) to LR (-) speaker
B4 RR (+) to LR (+) speaker
Understand they will not sound great because they
are not mounted in their "enclosures" but you will get enough of an idea to know if you like them.
I think I used 20 gauge wire, another fellow used 18 gauge with his makeshift RS plugs.
REMEMBER -
all this experimenting is AT YOUR OWN RISK.
Good Luck and please post your results.
performance. Anyway
performance.
FORGET THE C1 info above - I cannot be sure they are the numbered holes to feed from.
Anyway, second thought - IF you retry the 6x9 GMs
in the trunk, run the wires from the speaker feeds to the rear deck instead of from the C1 plug.
When you're doing it, power off (of course) and disconnect the CVs FIRST before pigtailing to the GMs.
I've worked on many sound systems in cars, and this is a very common mistake. By not getting the polarity correct, you will put your speakers out of phase and this will cancel a lot of the bass.
Noticed either I blew an Amp or my sub is blown. Err... I think it's time ot update the Truck system anyway. I've won trophies with it in the past, but she's not currently up to par...
At least the subs in the Impala seem to working fine.
I bypassed the amp in the trunk.
AMAZING !!!!!!!! What an EYE OPENER !!!!! 8-)
It sounds incredible. Clear, FULL of bass, and
LOUD!!!
Easy job - huge rewards.
Thanks to all that made it possible. I can't
remember everyones names, but, Thank You, Thank You
very much. I applaude your persistence and
ingenuity.
Cheers.
I really want to do the buypass, but not if I have to worry every time I feel like cranking it up. Was the difference in sound quality that much that it would make each of you keep the buypass in place?
IF you always keep the tone in MANUAL,
IF you always keep the bass to the LEFT of center,
If you don't play it above MODERATE volume,
THEN you will probably be okay.
NO GUARANTEES!
It costs next to nothing. You don't cut any wires on your car. It takes less than an hour. It's reversible - unlike a heart bypass.
If you don't like it, just pull the little homemade jumper wires on the C1 plug. Reconnect it and the power plug to the amp and you're back where you started. No harm done.
Do you notice that radio stations vary in volume (level) and fidelity from one to the other? Do you live at some great distance from stations?
How does the tape volume compare to the CD and radio?
My point is there are many, many variables.
In general, my Impala CD player, FM radio and tape cassette player all put out about the same level or volume of sound. I live in a very big city with powerful transmitters that are not more than 15 miles away. Fidelity still varies.
My best guess is that the volume relationship (or ratio) on YOUR sound system will vary to the same degree without the amp as it does now. However - it may be MORE NOTICEABLE because there will definitely be more bass.
Before you try the bypass, I would suggest you go to your dealer and listen to another car with the same audio pkg as yours. Listen for the degree of change among audio sources on that car.
If it's significantly less variable than on your Impala, you MIGHT want to think about having them adjust/replace your dash unit. However, they could do more harm than good. That's always my concern. If it sounds the same as yours - as I suspect it will - chalk it up to location and learn to live with it.
With my amp bypassed, my Impala audio is plenty loud with more than enough bass. I ALWAYS keep it on MANUAL tone control with the bass set left of center. Sounds good to me.
Don't cut any car wires and you can easily switch it back.
Good Luck.
http://www.toyota.co.jp/Showroom/All_toyota_lineup/Cavalier/index.html
So... Try it. You'll like it.
"Did I pay for something that was just not needed!"???
Seems 11 out of 12 amp bypassers would say
"YES, we all did."
I like to think of that extra $225. as adding a CD to our car. Never had a CD in the dash before.
However, when replacing the factory Amp, if you do not replace the factory Head unit, you will have the same issue you have now. Adding an aplifier to the Factory Head unit would mean amplifying an already amplified source. This could lead to a lot of distortion and would mean you may have to turn the bass down to keep from blowing speakers. (Same thing the stock Amp does.)
An aftermarket Head unit would give you pre-amp outs that would allow you to connect an amp to the low level and give you a lot better sound.
This is where the problem comes in. To remove the factory head unit would mean loosing those extra features GM incorporated into the stereo. This is where I found the need to just add a second head unit. If you looking for the best sound without disableing features in the car, then this may be the best solution until someone comes out with an adapter that gets around this (Not anytime soon).
Check out my site for my Impala, you can see what I did to "Fix" my system...
http://www.myloudcar.com
figured he wouldn't, within 10 min. he called back with a tech by the name of Randy. Randy was very interested, confirmed what we already know about amplifying an amplified signal. Told me he would check into it and call. Will keep you posted
The message was the same then as it is now -
"We never heard of this problem." -
Several of us were told to take it to our dealers where we told it's working as designed.
Did anybody ever get a different answer than that?
Is blueheart actually on his way to a factory fix?
Your biggest single improvment of sound will come from replacing the factory head unit. (Provided you don't buy a Jensen or Craig.) After that things just get easier to upgrade and make better.
Soon as I get the $$$ together, I will hopefully be installing a couple XTant amps. 604X and 1001X. I like the filter options that can be installed into the amps. When you are done, put a site together and I'll link to my domain...
http://www.myloudcar.com
I was wondering if anyone has information on the mating connector to the C1 plug going to the amp. What I'd like to do is build the "jumpering" into the backshell of a mating connector to the C1 plug. That way, the wires wouldn't be exposed and the integration would look a little nicer. Also, I'd like to be able to build this bypass before I get the car, so that as soon as I pull it into my garage at home, I can just unplug the two connectors to the amp and then add the bypass connector (which I'll build in the backshell of the C1 mating connector).
Any information that you have would be greatly appreciated. And thanks again for all the time spent on coming up with a temporary fix for the problem.
If you come up with a 25 pin mate, please be sure to post the info here for the rest of us.
By the service manual diagram, looks like it would need to be a male:
"24 way F Micro Pack 100 series"
I do agree...the stereo in the 91 Cavalier that I sold had much more bass. I could not push the little lever up all the way for fear that I might have blown the speakers (small as they were). This new "higher end" system is not all it's cracked up to be. I do miss the bass. I may be able to play games with the balance and fader, the bass and treble, but I think that will only mask the problem. I'm probably doing to try the bypass this weekend when I have the time to do it right.
What did astound me is when I popped my DJ Jazzy Jeff and Fresh Prince CD (hey, I grew up in the 80's and the Fresh Prince is the only really good rap music...Summer Time is a great song for this time of year). The bass just jumped out at me! The music actually sounded good, and the car was vibrating with bass...what does that say? If anyone has access to a bassie (sp?) CD give it a try and see what you think.
I'm going to check the catalogues at work for a possible jumper connector. Has anyone else checked Newark Electronics or MacMaster Carr?
Also, some CD producers deliberately boost the bass during manufacture on certain types of music for effect. The "kid" who lived next door enjoyed that stuff at high volume for years. At 30, he wears a hearing aid - literally.
--------------
If you locate those amp connector plugs, please post.
Based on this experience, I would suggest (at your own risk) to use either 14 or maybe even 12 gage solid conductor wire (I used 16 gage multi-strand wire). Or, if you use multi-strand, it would be a good idea to tin the leads (which is what I did, but now it's too dark to play around).
Again, it does work for the MC as well. Sound is a matter of personal preference, but I can tell a difference just by keeping the bass at the same level with the amp bypassed and not bypassed.
I will experiment more, and I do want to make sure that there are not repercussions, but I think this is a classic work around similar to what you find in buggy software.
I think Chevy owes us something...
Oh, and I also started looking through the Newark Electronics catalog, and I have not found anything yet...
until i read these postings (of which read better than a novel!) i had given up on this car. Finally, with the solution in hand i am now the proud owner of a beautiful black fully loaded impala 2000.
i only chose to post to say thanks, i am doing the bypass this weekend and from what i read it will be worth the risk/time. i have all the information i need the wire gauge, the schematic everything.
keep on posting !!(i am curious to a cleaner solution utilizing electrical connectors)
THANKS !!!!
After playing around some more with the radio and some of my CD's, the bass really seems dependent on the source material. I also filled out my survey for my Monte Carlo from Chevrolet today, In the comments area, I made a note that I thought the amplifier was a piece of crap and should be recalled...a total waste of money. Will be interesting to see if I hear back from them on that one.
Hope everyone has a great and safe holiday!
Dan
I cannot describe the difference. What is unbelievable is that someone somewhere in quality assurance thought that this was a good idea! I mean someone had the idea to add the extra amplifier and someone ok'd that! WOW!
I need help with connectors. I went with 14 gauge solid copper wire. It was a bit of hassle with bending but worked. And I tried to do some jury rigging with electrical tape to make it 'secure'. No avail, I have already had one connection fail and I could actually notice it with the sound. Unlike b/4 where everything sounded bad.
Are there connectors (what size) that you can 'crimp' on the end to make the connection better? I am a little paranoid that I am going to manhandle the plug and I then will be sunk!
By the way the trunk is big enough to hold a 6' 1" 200lb man with room to spare.
Crutchfield for $99. It was well worth the effort.
The easiest way to do the bypass is with 3M scotchlok connectors. I think they are 357 type.
Most some auto stores and electronic stores should
carry them. They are used to make a pigtail connection, this means both wires lay side by side in the connector. All you do is insert the wires without crimping and close the top. Some other types are for splicing trailer wiring but those feed thru, this type is a solid end with out
the feed thru. Mine were red in color.
The front speakers are another story. Luckily for us GM used a non-standard size so anything we do will have to be modified. I will be going to a stereo shop to find an adaptor so my 6.5" Infinity
speakers will fit. These were only $69. I still think spending $175 is too much to spend to upgrade a factory system that was an upgrade to begin with, but I was not going to wait to a factory solution. Good luck for anyone trying this, it is not hard to do at all. Time involved with removing the seat, back shelf, etc plus installing the speakers was about 2 hrs. This did
include the amp bypass though.
What - if any - advantage do the 6x9 Infinitys offer over the factory speakers in the rear?
If you do choose to replace the front door speakers, 6-3/4" will fit existing holes exactly.
I found that the Pioneers I had bought did NOT sound as good as the stock speakers!(See post 188)
Anything new on your complaint to GM? Many of us feel they owe us something.
From what I've read here, everyone seems to be quite happy with their bypass, but I wanted to make sure that when I do the bypass, I don't have to fix the connections once a week.