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Infiniti Q45



  • peteri1peteri1 Posts: 21
    Am researching replacement for my 99GS400. I'm looking at the Q45 Premium Pckg, the LS430 Custom and a similarly equipped A6 4.2. I love my GS, although with 6 mos left on the lease they're lowballing my 38000 mile car with NAV for $29-30K, while they advertise used 99 GS400's for almost $40K (payoff is $36100).

    I owned a 95Q45T and it was a real sled (dangerously so) in Chicago winters. I have Blizzaks on the GS and have had NO issues through two winters.

    All three prospective new cars sticker around $60K, with the LS at $62K+, Q at $59.3K and the A6 at $58.8K. LeaseWizard is throwing low residuals out for the LS and Q, but over 50% for the A6 (all at 36mo and 15000 mi/year).

    All three are excellent. I haven't driven the Q yet. There are enough dealers in the Chicago suburbs to be competitive.

    I think the Q is most distinctive, the LS is the sure bet and the A6 offers the most all-weather choice in Chicago. If I go with the Q or LS, it's steel rims and snows in the winter.

    If I can get away in the low $900's by paying Ill state taxes up front, I'm OK. I think all three can be had for this figure, but residuals are sliding.

    For those financial gurus out there, do residuals go into the tank in mid summer of a model year?
  • mmcbride1mmcbride1 Posts: 861
    Yes, they do. The best time to lease would be to lease a 2002 model this fall. That way, it is a new model and has depreciated less than a 2001 has by now.
  • hiiq1hiiq1 Posts: 7
    I too have driven the new Q and have mixed feelings about the car.I own and drive a 93Q every day and didin't feel overly impressed with the acceleration of the new car. I'm still scratching my head over smallness of the trunk for a car this size! Infiniti needs to to come all the way back to the 89-93 interior and trunk dimensions and start from there. The 94-96 model just added weight and the 97-00 models shrank in both horsepower and interior! The new car is nice but Infiniti can and needs to do better.
  • hiiq1hiiq1 Posts: 7
    I forgot sorry. Yes drove a LS430 at the Cadillac challenge a few weeks ago and have to say that it has one of the best seats I've ever sat in. After that the the car is nice however I still think that all it's success is owed to the fact that it's still and always will be a Japanese replica of a Mercedes Benz E class! Not original so if inmatation is the sincerest form of flaterly the Lexeus wins another award hands down!
  • robh3robh3 Posts: 157
    For what it's worth, the base Deville and the DTS do have different horsepower ratings:
    base Deville - 275
    DTS - 300

    Out of curiosity I went to my local Infinity dealer this last Saturday to get a close look at the Q. I was hoping to get a test drive. Ever notice how when you are NOT interested in talking to a salesman, you are swarmed by them...and when you actually DO want help from a salesman, you are ignored?! Well, I figured if I pulled onto the lot in my STS it would help show that I am a legitimate prospect. Even after doing that, and going into the showroom and helping myself to sitting in the Q inside for a while, NOT ONE PERSON APPROACHED ME!

    I was surprised to see a sticker price of $59k+ on the two Q's they had. I though these things were only around $51k. Anyway, I left without driving the car. Also, I could not intuitively figure out how to open the trunk to check out the size. No lever/button on the lower dash or next to the driver's seat that I could find. Where is it?
  • tgif888tgif888 Posts: 351
    I believe is on the driver's side handle.
  • robh3robh3 Posts: 157
    Ahh, I didn't look there. I presume it is not such that one would be prone to hitting it by accident when getting out of the car.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    The LS430 competes with the S not the E. The E falls so far short of the LS430 that it's not worth discussing. I chose the LS430 over an S-500 and am awfully glad I did. I would take it even if the prices were the same because it's the better car and I don't give a hoot about status. As for it's success - try great reliability, great interiors, rocket engines, phenomenal customer service, best of breed stereo systems, top notch nav systems, top of the line technology and the best ride of any car I've ever been in. There are more but these are the ones right off the top of my head. The only thing an E-430 has in common with this car is a quick engine. After that it falls miserably far behind in every aspect except price. MB will never give anyone a good value. I am pretty sure without having driven it that the Q also blows away an E-430. It plays in a different league.
  • You're right -- the standard Deville and the DTS do differ in horsepower by a little less than 10%. I ran out of editing time before I double checked it and could change it.

    Nevertheless, I don't think it's the < 10% increase in horsepower that makes the DTS faster. I've driven both, and the difference is substantial. The difference was even more pronounced in the previous generation Deville/Concours.

    To get back to the subject at hand, If I recall correctly, the Q's trunk button was in the glove compartment.

    One more thing...

    What's with that ridiculous chrome cassette deck in the middle of the dash? Couldn't they have put a simple single CD player in there instead? The last time I remember buying a cassette was ~1985.

    I, for one, hate loading a bunch of CDs into a magazine. Just give me a single CD player IN THE DASH for goodness sakes.
  • lenscaplenscap Posts: 854
    Just curious why you dislike CD changers. If you only have one CD in the dash, and you want to change CDs, it's nearly impossible while driving.

    With a changer, you just load up 6 CDs one time. Then you have all that variety of music at hand. I have a 6-disc CD changer and very rarely switch the CDs.
  • drod2045drod2045 Posts: 39
    The trunk and gas release is on the driver side door by the grab handle
  • robh3robh3 Posts: 157
    One other thing that I will comment on, which has long been one of my "complaints" regarding Japanese cars, is that they all seem to have the same, distinct smell in the interior regardless of whether they have leather or cloth upholstery.

    The top end Q54 I sat in in the showroom has the same smell as a low-end Nissan with cloth seats. I don't get it; all that leather and you can't even smell it.

    I still get comments from people who get into my '99 STS who ask me if the car is new. The STS isn't perfect (is there a perfect car?), but for the money at least it smells like a high-end luxury car with nice leather.
  • I guess the problem I have with the changer is that I get tired of hearing those same six CDs over and over again. I had a changer in my last Deville, and I took the time and trouble to load it less than half a dozen times in the two years I owned the car. Changing it while driving was out of the question.

    My current Deville has a single CD player, and I have found it to be much more convenient. I prefer to pick a CD before I leave the house, and pop it in for that 20 minute drive to the office.

    The bottom line is, I use the single CD in my current car a lot more than I ever used the changer in my previous car. What good is a changer if one finds it too inconvenient to use? Sure, a changer can be nice for longer trips, but city driving accounts for ~80% of my driving.

    In any case, putting a cassette deck in place of either a CD changer or a single CD player in a car like this seems rather absurd. I suppose it could be used for books on tape and the like, but I can't imagine that tapes account for a very high percentage of what the average Q driver listens to. It and the clock looked like antiques sitting there amongst all of that wonderful gadgetry. It reminded me of the old chrome 8-track in my first car -- a '67 Mustang.

    I liked the clock, by the way -- it serves a useful purpose, and looks nice.
  • fennfenn Posts: 197
    This never ceases to amaze me! I read lots of nitpicking here about things as esoteric as car smells....geez! I am going to guess that people who single out car odor as an issue are not real buyers in this class anyway. As for the trunk, it is not huge, but I just returned from a week-long trip in my Q with four people and their luggage fitting perfectly in the car. There is a great deal of added "usable" space in this trunk over its predecessor.

    As for Edmunds, they really do not like Infiniti, and the reviewer seemed biased from the start. They also did not drive the car with the sport suspension and 18" wheels. The Edmund's reviewer must be a simpleton if he cannot figure out the sound system and air conditioning system. You need not use the voice activation, as the buttons and knobs are pretty easy to figure out. My ten year old figured it out in five minutes.

    This particular reviewer is a BMW fan who champions the simplicity of the pure BMW experience and loves analog dashboards....I can't wait to see his review of the new big Beemer with it's new driving system, much of which is controlled by a pod in the dashboard. I think BMWs are great too, but at just over 50k, the Q45 is a pretty nice car and a great value.

    I have driven mine over 6000 miles and not had one complaint. No rattles, glitches, or problems...For a new introduction of an all new car it really impresses. It also is quicker and faster then it was on the day I brought it home...I do not know if the system is adaptive or if it has just broken in, but is feels pretty quick to all that have driven it. Including two of my friends that own cars like 740I's and XJR's.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    Do you know of any reviewers that are not biased towards BMW before they even set foot in the cars they are about to review or comparative test? I found it beyond ludicrous that one mag rated the current 7 over the new S, new LS430 and new Q recently. If it is really that great why is BMW even bothering with a re-design. Maybe because the public isn't rushing out to buy the car and doesn't buy the nonsense they are writing. It was pretty easy to see in the Edmunds review that they were seeking out the negatives in the new Q car whereas most reviewers of BMW never mention the expensive upkeep and gloss right over the cars' drawbacks.

    Personally I think Infiniti still has their advertising and marketing money spent badly. I see LS430 tv ads in many shows I watch but the only place where I seem to see Q tv ads is Bloomberg - and I'm much more interested in the market numbers which display at the same time than the ad. I know Lexus has the much deeper pockets but Infiniti has to spend more wisely.

    As for the car odor - that's crazy. My old LS400 still had some of that new car smell when I returned it to the dealer. These companies use top notch leather in their cars.
  • tgif888tgif888 Posts: 351
    Next time maybe we should have the computer and robot to do a test drive? Nah, just a thought. =)
  • robh3robh3 Posts: 157
    You are right, noticing something as non-critical to the performance and function of the car as its interior aroma is "crazy", as you say, but then again, why wouldn't the so-called "tactile feel" of buttons and controls be equally as crazy? How they feel has nothing to do with how well they function. Why are we critical of the quality of the paint job on a high priced luxury car? After all, as long as the metal surfaces have paint on them, then it won't rust. That is the purpose for paint to begin with. But, it doesn't work that way. We expect more from a luxury car compared with a entry level and even mid-priced car.

    The sense of smell is one of the senses we are fortunate to have as the human species, along with sight, hearing, touch, etc. We judge a lot of things as humans by our sense of smell. Indeed, part of the intangible "chemistry" we have with a member of the opposite sex has to do with smell. Can you think of the perfume your wife or girfriend wears? Can you think of the perfume your grandmother wears (or wore). Does each smell conjure up a completely different feeling when you smell it???

    Walk into a movie theatre and what do you smell? Popcorn. It is part of the movie-going experience and I am sure ads subconsciously to the overall experience, whether you eat popcorn or not. If you were to walk into a bakery and smell the aroma of a steakhouse it would screw up your senses and probably all but squelch your desire for baked goods. For sure, market studies have been done on the effects of smell on human buying behavior. Ever see a bakery whose oven exhaust was directed to blow out by the front door? It's that way for a reason. The mere smell of it can completely change your frame of mind and draw you in, even if your were not thinking about sweats when you walked by.

    That said, I am merely stating that to me, a luxury car with quality leather has a different "smell" to the interior than a Nissan Sentra with cloth seats. That is not to say that the leather in the Q is not high quality. I am not saying that at all. I merely am making an observation that when I got into the Q45 in the dealer showroom, it smelled like a $20k Nissan. Those cars have a distinct smell to me (the same smell they have had for years beginning in the late 70's when I first ever got into a Datsun.

    In fact, I was very impressed with the interior of the Q45. It definitely looks and feels high quality and upscale overall. It just doesn't smell that way. That's it, plain and simple.

    And jflx: I am talking about the Q45 here, not the Lexus. Nissan products, more than any other Japanese brand, have a distinct smell that permeates all of its vehicles regardless of seat materials. Also, I am talking not just of a "new car smell", but of the smell of leather. Ever walk into a Wilson's Leather store, or a Coach leather store? It smells like...LEATHER. If you were to walk into either of those two stores and it smelled like anything other than leather, like, let's say rubber, you would not get the "sense" that it was a quality leather goods store.

    There is a method and legitimacy to this "craziness".
  • mvargo1mvargo1 Posts: 298
    I was so intrigued buy the post that I actually went out in the showroom to sit in the Q45 and as I tought it smells a lot like leather and the familier new car smell of curing polymers, but mostly leather.
  • fennfenn Posts: 197
    My sense of smell finds the scent of Infiniti's pleasing. Other seem to like it too. Oh well. I have been in new BMW's Jags, Lexus's, Caddy's and many others, they all smell pretty nice to me when they are new. Geez! I bet that robh3 works for a cologne company.

    A couple of other comments about the Edmund's review.... I believe he made some comment about the console feeling like it was going to break free at any time...HUH? I have since grabbed and leaned on mine and it hardly budges. I am going over to the BMW and Lexus dealera this afternoon to yank on their consoles so that I can compare...just kidding.

    By the way, I really do appreciate BMW's. I just think is it unfair and obtuse to compare the base version the Q45 to a car that costs $15,000 more. Why not use the Sport version or Luxury version Q45 when making this comparison? Both of these have larger wheels and adjustable suspension settings. I also think that is is silly to "diss" some of the technology in the Q45, when BMW is heading towards an even more complex, tech-oriented, driving system in their upcoming new 7 series.....
  • robh3robh3 Posts: 157
    Let's face it, cars other than BMWs are just not going to "win" those tests based on the magazine's standards of racing car ride and handling.

    Just like they used the non-sport version of the Q, why the heck would they use the DTS Caddy and not the smaller STS? The first thing they said about the DTS was that is was too big. Duh!

    Oh, and regarding the leather, I guess we have differing senses of smell of what leather smells like. I have only been in one Q, and it defintely had that generic Nissan aroma, which is even different from other "new car" smells to me. Unique, not bad, just unique, and not like leather to me.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    How do dealers and sales people react to magazine auto tests where they purposely "rig" the test with say an MB S-500 sport or even a tuned AMG and/or say a BMW sport vs. ordinary Q-45's or LS430's? They of course do this in the lower priced models as well. As a consumer and a business person I read right through it as an admission that the German base car would lose - probably on the value proposition alone. On top of that they are heavily biased towards the sport handling rather than the luxury ride as if anyone really drives the car the way the tester would. I can't ever remember seeing a BMW 7 screaming on the road and I've never seen an MB S or a BMW 7 take a turn any faster than I do in an LS430.

    To robh3 - I had a 280z and 280zx (78 & 83)and both had leather interiors - and they smelled wonderful new and I never noticed any odor that differed from other cars later on. Admittedly my sense of smell isn't that great but you most certainly have one hell of a sense of smell.
  • hiiq1hiiq1 Posts: 7
    I'm not questioning the reliability of the LS. I'm simply stating that the overall theme of the exterior is a mere alteration of the E-class Mercedes. I'll give the interior its merits however the original grill and the size of the car was designed to compete against the E430 and the 540i in terms of value for the the V8 and amenities that were offered as standard items! Toyota had the better marketing however the LS is not I repeat not an original car, just a very good reliable car whose popularity and price has risen almost to the price of a Mercedes or BMW.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    It's 2001 not 1990 - the LS has been so successful that it now competes with the S and the 7, and has been accused of copying the S not the E. My point is simple - this car destroys the E. I drove the E-430 for 3 days about 5-6 weeks ago. My feeling about that car is that maybe when it grows up it'll be a luxury car but right now it's not. The moment you are in a Lexus LS430 you are in luxury appointments that crush anything the E puts out and let's face it that interior, stereo and nav system also easily outclass the S. Your whole point is styling whereas I would say Lexus has become a trendsetter in many ways including aerodynamics, smoothness of ride, stereos and nav systems, bodybuild and most importantly quality of product. My comment about the Q vs. the E is simple. If my budget was a bit lower I'd take the more reliable Q over the E simply because it is a larger and more powerful car, a far better value and I like its looks particularly now that I've seen a few on the road (where it shows better than in pix). While I haven't driven it I've read that the ride is excellent - approaching an LS430, and like an LS430 it has a great stereo and nav system. If that is true it also blows away an E-430 for $5-10k less money. Mercedes has a name and status but other people make equal or better cars these days which translate to much better values.
  • mvargo1mvargo1 Posts: 298
    Usually all it takes is for people to get in the car and drive it. In some ways a less than enthusiastic review can help, because the car is that much more impressive when someone drives it.
  • w210w210 Posts: 188
    Some may find the LS and Q too large as a sports sedan, when compared to the E & 5 series.

    The interesting question is which car has better performance, the Q or the LS??
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    They also come to realize the mags favored car isn't as good as the review. By the way did you see MT this month on the new 7. The article briefly discussed its rear styling and said "a potential point of controversy" is the new 7's rear design. Translation - they don't like it but of course they'd never say that.

    W-210 - the E is a totally different car than an LS or Q so its hard to fathom how the LS copied its style which is how this discussion got started. I'm sure the Q like the LS is a great car but the Q will have a hard time penetrating Lexus customers. It needs to steal away the upcoming BMW buyer. I'm sure it'll test good against a 7 (if the mag is not biased - good luck with that one) but will have a hard time winning BMW buyers unless they forsake the new model and want to save $20-25k.
  • drod2045drod2045 Posts: 39
    The Q outperforms the LS since it does perform as speced by Infiniti. Plus, it beat the LS one on one in an older RT even with its slow, pre production, 0-60 times. not saying the Q is the better car but i prefer it over the LS.

    BTW to the person who said the LS has the best stereo. MT said the Qs was better and the Qs sytem is standard whie the ML is like a 2000-3500k option. Edmunds said its the best too while giving the Q a horrible review but thats edmunds. They tested the Q in terrible conditions and really dont know how to drive if they cant get the car to go 0-60 in about 6 seconds.
  • raprorapro Posts: 30
    It's very simple. A car is a driving machine so not surprisingly, professional people evaluating cars value their driving characteristics above all since this is the essence of the car. Now of course a car can also be a couch and can be evaluated as one, but this shouldn't be the main criterion. Since most expert and non-expert people agree that BMWs are the best driving cars no wonder they're the favorites of auto journalists everywhere. I don't think it's that unreasonable. Now I admit that sometimes the journalists are biased for bimmers, but why shouldn't they be? Again and again they produce the best driving cars there are though not necessarily the best couches or opera houses on wheels.
  • robh3robh3 Posts: 157
    Cars are "driving machines" for only one person; the driver. What about the passengers? Forget about them? Yes, cars are people movers. Transporation devices. Passenger cars. Etc. Wait, though, it doesn't end with just people. That's right, cars are also for moving peoples luggage, their personal effects, their equipment, tools, etc.

    When it comes to sedans, the magazines should be judging the cars on ALL aspects of the vehicle; can they comfortably fit the quantity of people advertised, can they fit the average amount of luggage for a family of four on a week's vacation, do they get good gas mileage in the process, do they have good safety features and equipment, etc.? Yes, I want my car to have good driving characteristics and be "fun" to drive, and have power, etc., but it's not ALL about that, and only that. These are passenger automobiles, not racing cars for sport and cash money prizes to the guy who can negotiate the cones the fastest.
  • lenscaplenscap Posts: 854
    One thing the magazines don't take into account is the real world OWNING experience. I agree that BMW builds some of the best driving cars. But there is so much else to consider when buying a car -- insurance costs, reliability, cost of ownership, dealer experience, wear of interior materials over time, etc. The magazines rarely, if ever, factor these into a test. Sure a BMW is great in a one-hour test; it probably should be number one. But as for actually owning one long term I'll pass.
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