I have had one A8 (V8) and two A6 4.2's (V8). I have EXTENSIVELY driven several S4's (Turbo V6, same as 2.7T A6, and my wife has a 2001 TT 225hp coupe). I can induce some turbo lag in the TT, by "improper" gear selection, I had no problem in the S4's (stick shift). My A6 4.2's both had or have 5 speed Tiptronics, my A8 (1997) had a five speed automatic (non-Tip).
I have driven all the cars mentioned above at speeds above 110mph -- I have also accelerated them "strongly" from street legal to autobahn speeds. I have never noticed anything I would consider a "back off." Heck, my 1999 A6 2.8 quattro, while no dragster, was strong and capable at legal and autobahn speeds. It just took a bit longer to reach any given speed when compared with the V8's or turbo engines.
None of this is meant to contradict the GS430 statements, per se. It appears that the GS430 does accelerate more quickly (all the car magazines report this consistently). My statement is only to question and argue the point that the Audi engines "back off." I have no experience that would validate that; and, I have read no reviews or reports that suggest Audi engines "back off." Please try another test drive.
I didn't order the sport suspension in the 2.7T because THOSE seats aren't comfortable for me. I'm a bit wide, and the standard seats are very comfortable, while the sport seats pinch my shoulder blades.
Given the end of the year, I'm looking at some leftover A6 2.8 '00 models and am trying to decide whether to get a better discount on them or go with the '01.
As far as I can see, the only major difference is that the '01 has a longer warranty. Does it also have full scheduled maintenance while the '00 doesn't? This is a point I'm confused on. Given the discounts I'm seeing on the '00, is the longer warranty/maintenance worth the price?
Also, they stopped making the stick for the '01 2.8. To get that, I have now have to go to the '01 2.7T. Is that price jump worth it?
I like the feel of the car and do 20k/yr of mostly highway driving. 0-60 times are not that important to me so I didn't really look at the 2.7T.
The additional warrenty is of no value to you if you drive 20K miles / year. In both cases you will be out of the warrenty period in less than 3 years.
Thanks for your response. I do have a '01 brochure, but not pics of the vanilla/royal blue combo. If possible, would like to take a look as that combo seems hard to find at a dealer. My email is jim3039@hotmail.com.
Also, from what you've said, it sounds like I should have no problem finding a '01 2.8 when I pull the trigger next month.
In addition to what's already been mentioned, here are some differences between the two model years:
- Warranty AND factory-paid scheduled maintenance were 3 yrs./50000 miles on 2000s; both increased to 4 yrs./50000 miles for '01.
- Electronic Stabilization Program (ESP) std. on '01 2.7T, 4.2; opt. on 2.8. N/A on 2000 models. (I've not driven an ESP-equipped car, so I can't comment on its effectiveness.)
- 2000 models with memory seat (part of Convenience Package) have driver-only memory feature. '01 models so equipped (Premium Package on 2.8, Preferred Luxury Package on 2.7T, std. on 4.2) also includes front passenger seat memory.
- For '01, Andorra Red is available on 4.2 only (available on all 2000 models).
- Jaspis Green (available on 2000 2.8 & 2.7T) dropped for 2001.
- Royal Blue "Ambiente" interior, available on all 2000 models in leather or leatherette with Casablanca White and Light Silver Metallic, dropped for '01. (Vanilla/Royal Blue leather is still available on '01s.)
- Lago Green "Advance" interior, available on 2000 2.8 & 2.7T in cloth or leather with Jaspis Green or Light Silver Metallic, dropped for '01.
- Nemo Blue introduced as a new color for '01, available only on 4.2.
- Sideguard F+R head airbags optional on all 2000 models, std. on all '01s.
- Some 2000 2.8s with the Preferred Equipment Package (leather seating, power moonroof, HomeLink, heavily discounted vs. individual selling prices) came through with compact spare tires. As far as I know, all '01s have full-sized spares.
- '01 2.7T has more available Sport Packages than in 2000, including one with 17" wheels.
As for the 2.8 vs. 2.7T, here are my thoughts...others may disagree. Whether with the 2.7T-exclusive 6-speed manual or the Tiptronic, the 2.7T is without question a high-performance luxury sedan. It has fabulous acceleration and leaves little to be desired in its driving experience. Those who own them love them. If properly maintained, there's no reason to believe that the 2.7T is any more prone to failure than the 2.8. Sure, if the turbos die and need replacement, you'd be looking at a big bill, but my understanding is that Audi's turbos can be reasonably expected to last as long as the rest of the car. In addition, the 2.7T is available with Sport Packages (several unique combinations of upgraded suspension, seats, wheels, and tires) that are not available on the 2.8.
The 2.8 (which I own, with quattro and Tiptronic), absolutely does not fly like the 2.7T. It does, however, perform and accelerate very nicely. You may have read others' comments about the 2.8 being "under-powered"; I've owned mine for 6 months and absolutely disagree with that assessment. It goes just fine! I've never been disappointed in the performance of the car, and I'm not always easy to please.
Now, if the rocket-like acceleration of the 2.7T is what you want, then you'll not be happy with the 2.8, no question about it. If money isn't an object, or if you don't mind paying roughly $4000 - $5000 more for a comparably-equipped 2.7T, buy it and don't look back. You won't regret it, as it's a FABULOUS automobile. On the other hand, if the extra $$$ puts the car out of reach or is too much of a stretch to be comfortable, get the 2.8. Nothing else on the market comes closer to the 2.7T than the 2.8!
By the way, as if you couldn't tell, ALL A6s are great cars. Regardless of which version you opt for, you'll be getting a car that puts a grin on your face every time you sit in it.
A lease on a 2000 will be more than a lease on a 2001 all things being equal.
An outright purchase on a 2000 will be less than the same for a 2001.
The 2000 cannot have ESP, it is available on the 2001 (and standard on the 2.7T and 4.2).
ESP, in my opinion is in the same league as ABS brakes and I would NOT get a 2000 for that reason, but then again I always lease, so the newer car generally is less expensive.
The 2.7T is fantastic -- acceleration is very strong. Yet, otherwise comparably equipped, the A6 2.8 Q, and the A6 2.7T Q would be hard to differentiate at 80MPH on a freeway. Oh but there is that acceleration when you need it.
Drive them both, back to back. Make a choice, you won't go wrong.
Thank you all for your ever thoughtful responses. As I have gone through the buying process, I read many of the previous posts on this site and found everyone's comments to be well reasoned and insightful.
I decided on a '00 A6 2.8Q w/ preferred equip pack, cold weather and Bose audio for $35,800. (Seemed like a fair price.) The 2.7T is more engine than I need since 0-60 is not that big of a deal to me. I could not justify the extra $4k.
I live in the Boston area and based on previous posts going back several weeks I wish to offer a couple of comments on Bernardi (where I didn't purchase the car). The observation I have about them is that they are a very busy dealership due to their location and don't give a good 'casual buying experience'. Getting a salesman's undivided attention was tough so when I called around for '00-s I was not surprised that they said they had been out for a couple of months. I'm getting rid of a Subaru and had it serviced at their Subaru dealership which is next door. They did good, but pricey, repair work at the Subaru shop and I'll probably try them for my Audi maintenance.
Help. I was just at a dealer who told me first, that I could not get a 2.8 with the multi-function steering wheel, then after I insisted that it could be ordered, claimed that they only became available in the 2.8 in '01 and that I would need to wait 3-4 months for one! Is this ture? Has anyone out there heard similar stories? I doubt the dealer a little, because they also did not realize the 2.8 was available in Vanilla/Royal Blue interior.
I just test drove a 2.7T and my only complaint was that I could not adjust the tilt of the steering wheel high enough so that it wouldn't block my view of the instrument panel. I am 6' tall and needed 1/2" more of tilt for clear vision of the panel. Anyone out there with a similar problem or do you think this is an isolated incident?
Jim, the dealer is handing you a line of baloney. Here are the facts:
For the entire model year 2000, the multi-function steering wheel (with illuminated buttons for stereo and in some cases factory phone) was available on the A6 2.8 (and 2.7T) as part of the "Convenience Package" (which also included the power moonroof, memory driver's seat & outside mirrors, auto-dimming inside & outside mirrors, and HomeLink). M.S.R.P. on the package was $1650. Note that ordering the Convenience Package would, by definition, disallow ordering the "Preferred Equipment Package" (leather, moonroof, and HomeLink). If you wanted leather on a car with the Convenience Package, you had to order it as a $1550 stand-alone option.
I have a model year 2000 A6 2.8Q with the Convenience Package, and I use the steering wheel stereo controls a lot. They're nicely backlit in red and they work well. My car was built in April, 2000 which means that the left and right bottom buttons will control the Audi phone ONLY (which I don't have); without the phone, those buttons are useless (though I recently heard that Audi will soon offer a hands-free adapter that will allow the buttons to work with certain after-market phones). In earlier-built 2000 A6s, however, those bottom buttons control radio (up and down seek of pre-programmed stations) and CD changer (next or previous disc) functions.
For model year 2001, the wheel in question IS available on the 2.8 as part of the $1025 "Premium Package", which also includes memory for driver and front passenger front seats & outside mirrors, auto-dimming inside & outside mirrors, and xenon headlights. Sadly, this package is not available on cars ordered with the "Celebration Luxury Package" (moonroof, leather, and HomeLink, specially priced at $1975). If you want the Convenience Package, the only way to get leather is as a $1550 stand-alone option. Similarly, the only way to get the moonroof and HomeLink on 2001 cars with the Convenience Package is to order them in the $1200 "Sunroof Package".
What I've stated here are absolute facts, Jim. Any dealer who tells you otherwise is giving you misinformation. To get a 2001 A6 2.8 (or 2.7T) with the multi-function steering wheel, you need only find one equipped with the Premium Package. It's that simple.
I couldn't agree more -- as I said, I was talking about the feel of the car. Now, even though the Vette is quicker, the 540 would be my current preference of the two -- I "need" a 4 door sedan.
But WOW, those puppies (BMW 540's) seem to be so much more money than Audi's. A 2000 A6 4.2 "listed" at $48,900 and a 5 series with a six cylinder engine and "all the [similar] goodies" was $49,200 -- comparatively it was not at all quick and was certainly more cramped -- and for me at least, the real selling point was quattro which here in Cincinnati is regularly appreciated both from a safety and a "getting stuck" point of view.
Yet my friends are just as certain as I am about my Audi, that the BMW's are high value cars, worth every penny.
...the "BMW mystique". I don't deny that they have a lot going for them in an absolute sense. They're obviously well-engineered, performance-oriented cars. They handle well and (from all that I've read and heard) have wonderful power trains.
What I don't understand is why they cost so much more than comparable Audis. Maybe BMWs must be owned in order to be fully understood and appreciated. (I've never owned one.)
Another thing that I don't understand is their "snob factor". From the sound of their advertising, it's even as though BMW consciously tries to appeal to arrogance! (Just listen to the tone of Joseph Campanella's voice in the radio commercials.) In my mind, BMW is positioned as the car of choice for snobs. That alone is enough to make me stay away, regardless of the actual attributes of the cars. I just don't want to be associated with the marque in any way.
Mike, I totally agree. However, I believe that in Germany BMW's prestige is matched or equalled by Audi's. It's over here that they seem to have really carved a peerless name for themselves.
A big part of how much you can charge for your car is perceived value. BMW thus can charge more, because they have been more consistently exciting and prestigous cars than Audi.
Now, that doesn't actually address whether you are getting a better car with a BMW than an Audi. But since you really buy a car with very little data to go by (specs plus a test drive), the safer bet can cost more.
MB makes tons of money this way. You may not get the best car available for the money, but you are fairly certain of what you will get, and that it isn't a lemon.
What I don't understand about the BMW mystique is how people put them so high on a pedestal that they don't even bother to consider whether another car could equal it.
Still, there are bigger mistakes in this world to make than spending a little more than you needed to to get a car you like a lot.
Well-put, Gary and Steve. All I know is, to me my "mere" 2000 A6 2.8Q is just about the greatest car in the world. I know that some would disagree, and that's OK. I also know that there are other sedans out there that do some things better, and that's OK, too.
I look at Audi as a car company that has had to work extremely hard in the past 10 years (since the "fiasco") to show the buying public just what terrific cars they can build. It was a matter of their very survival. In my book, they've succeeded in spades; just look at their entire line. The cars are beautifully styled, brilliantly engineered, and pack a perfect combination of luxury, performance, and sportiness, all at a much more reasonable price than their German (or Swedish) competition. In my book, that makes Audi "The Real Deal".
My only BMW was a fabulous '74 2002 - Whatta car! I still miss it. I am sure the new ones are also terrific. But - I've had 4 Audis also, and really enjoyed them as well, but they are different. Here in L.A. there is a negative "stigma" asocciated with "Beemer" owners - I wouldn't have one just for that reason!
Has anyone explored buying a new Audi in Canada and driving it back? On another forum, one of the posters saved thousands of $$ due to the weak Canadian Dollar, even after paying the small duty at the border. The speedo is in Kph first and Mph second, but you get DRLs! Comments? Seems like it's worth a visit to Vancouver.
Since the lease on my '99 A6 2.8 is expiring, and my wife loves it, I'm in the market for another one -same everything except a 2001. My dealer thinks $3,500 over invoice is a good price, but I think $1,000-1,200 is more like it. So now I'm faced with negotiating with other dealers to see what the market really is. Or I could try using Carbargains.com. They charge $165 and get bids, based on $x over invoice, from 5 nearby dealers, then I take it from there. Not spending the time negotiating with 5 dealers is worth $165 to me, but I can't find any posts from people who have used them. Does anyone have and good or bad experience with them? Coldwel
I don't know where you're located, but regardless, $3500 over invoice is absurd. Here in CA, $1200-1500 over invoice is typical on 2.8s. 2.7Ts and 4.2s run a little higher, but to the best of my knowledge even they can be had for $2000-2500 over. Of course, the flip side here is that most buyers live within a reasonable distance of more than one Audi dealership, which results in stiffer competition.
Personally, I wouldn't spend the $165. Instead, I'd use Edmunds.com to get the invoice price on my A6 of choice (their numbers are very reliable), then I'd offer the dealer(s) $1000 over. After the usual dickering, I'd give the deal to the first dealer who agrees to a number anywhere between the initial offer of $1000 and a high of $1500 over. Such a deal would be fair to all concerned.
I got close to using Car Bargains in '93 when I was looking for a Taurus SHO (!!). I paid the money and got quotes from quite a few local dealers, all of them reasonable (the average was about $200 over invoice). Now that's not to say that an Audi would be anything close to that - for one thing there are far fewer dealers around -but I did think it looked attractive. Ultimately I ended up using a broker who actually got me a car below invoice, and did the legwork of finding exactly what I wanted (he found it in an adjacent state), took my trade, and all of it for a fee of less than $300. I added it all up and decided he was definitely worth it. Since then I've bought two other cars through him (including my current '99 A6) and he has also done deals for at least two of my co-workers.
But, as I say, with so few dealers around (there are three in the Seattle/Tacoma area; four, if you include Bellingham)I doubt that Car Bargains could source anything very impressive. Now, if you're in a larger area with more dealers, then that would probably be a different picture. But, if you look at the dealer list in the portfolio that comes with the car, there just aren't that many Audi dealers period.
We purchased our 2000 A6 in Feb/00. At the time, we opted to wait on the extended warranty. We were told we could still get a similar rate as quoted up to 18 months or 18,000 miles. I can't remember the details, but to go to 5 years, 75,000 miles was about $2,000.
1. Can anyone verify extended warranty numbers. 2. Is it worth it? After the warranty ends, what should one expect to pay for normal maintenance and service?
Even though my '99 has been virtually flawless after 16 months, I still took the long view and decided that such a high-tech car has too much potential to break down the road. Yet, I really wanted this to be my last car as long as I could keep it on the road.
So, I bought an extended warranty through the broker who sold me the car. The company behind it is Heritage, a GE company, out of, I believe, Lincoln, NB. I bought it just before the car turned over 12k because I was told that it would increase $100 after that.
The exclusions are the usual - consumables, normal "wear and tear" items - but everything else was covered. Tbe base price was $1,275 for 7years/100k miles. I paid $75 extra for zero deductible; $100 extra for a money-back guaranteee(which means, if you never use it, you can be totally reimbursed for the premium); and $100 for All-Wheel Drive. Total: $1,550.
As for what maintenance costs are after warranty, I'm not sure, but an Audi service department could certainly tell you what some of the recommended intervals are and what they cost. I believe 60k or thereabouts is a real gasser; plus, you can well imagine that changing the timing belt is not going to be any bargain. Yeah, and that's a consumable, so it won't be covered under any extended warranty.
Years ago someone whose opinion I always regarded when it came to things automotive said that the initial price of a high-end European car is only the beginning. Maintenance can be a real killer, and I'm sure there are many MB, BMW, and (yikes!) Jag owners who would certainly agree.
Another thing to consider is this: Any time a third party is used in the car buying process, they must get the car from somewhere. In most (all?) cases, they get the car from the same dealers that you and I have available directly to us. Those dealers may or may not be willing to sell the car to the third party for less than they'd sell it directly to you for. In the case of Audis, my guess is that most dealers won't give a special deal to the broker, because they don't have to; sales are strong.
A case in point: Back in January I ordered my A6 through the now-defunct CarOrder.com. The price was a mere $592 over invoice! What I learned, though, was that CarOrder actually subsidized my purchase by some $800; they paid more for the car than they charged me! (Anyone care to guess why they dried up and went away?) When I ordered my car through CarOrder, they in turn ordered it through one of their "participating dealers". The dealer charged them approximately $1400 over invoice. By the dealer's own admission, I could have gotten the same price ($1400 over) by going directly to the dealer. That would have made sense, of course, except for the $800 subsidy.
So, if you don't mind the negotiating process, my earlier advice still stands: Determine the total invoice price of the car you want (including options and destination). Start by offering $1000 over, but be willing to pay up to $1500 over. A deal within those numbers is one you can feel good about.
Audi doesn't offer an extended warranty, so you need to investigate who is providing the one you are considering purchasing.
There are two typical options: 1. Dealer-provided. Good news is they usually cover repairs well. Bad news is if you move out of the area, the warranty is useless, as it is only good at one dealer. 2. Third-party warranties. These are good anywhere, and backed by a third party. Only problem is that some have a bad reputation as to paying the repair shop back, so it may not be accepted at all shops, or you may be asked to pay for the repairs up front and be reimbursed. Ask the shops you are considering using if they accept the warranty you are considering buying.
i wanted to thank you all again for your advice from 2 weeks ago. i got the car this weekend!!! ming blue/tungsten leather, really looks sharp. i only have one small problem with it. my wife wont let me drive it!
For anyone considering an A6, especially a bi-turbo 2.7, I've driven mine for two months now and absolutely love it. A true pleasure to drive. A perfect balance of luxury and performance. The bi-turbo engine makes it a stealth rocket. Zero problems...none! 18+ mpg in town, 22+ mpg at 75+ mph. It's been a long time since I've owned a car that I find excuses to take for a drive. You can pay more but you won't get any better (from an ex-M/B owner).
Bthirk: I have the same problem as you. I cannot see the top of the speedometer. My thoughts: Oh well. Quite frankly, I like my A6 enough to overlook that. I am 6'4", my wheel is all the way in and all the way up. My seat is all the way back, but I cannot lean it back. I find it very uncomfortable.
Markcincinnati: I couldn't agree with you more re the S-class vs. the 740. Last December, we were looking for a car to replace my wife's car. I saw the S-class, and thought it was very cool, but I didn't think it drives all that great. Too soft. I ended up at the BMW dealer down here, and took a 740iL on the spot. It was a surprise Christmas gift, and she loves it. What a great car. Excellent driver, and it's wonderful at speeds over 100. Truly amazing. The A8 was not a competitor in this class, as much as they say it is. And forget the LS430/LS400. We've had it for one year, and no problems.
Thanks for the suggestions, Mike and Tubey. We have 4 dealers in our area (Denver), and Audis are in high demand. I thought the dealers might realize that someone coming through CarBargains is serious (having paid $165) and that their bid will be compared to other dealers. But I don't like sending money to an unproven company so I'll try Mike's idea. I'll call the fleet managers (I don't need test drives) and see who will take $1,000 over invoice. I'll post how I came out. Thanks, John
I just leased a 2001 A6 T2.7 with the cell phone controls in the wheel, and live on Long Island where January 1 it becomes law you must have a hands free device. Would like to hook up my Motorola StarTac to the existing controls in the car so that they will work with the controls in the wheel. Does any one have any experience or know where to get information on going about doing this. Any Information would by greatly appreciated. By the way I love the car it's the perfect blend sports and practicality.
Audi is supposedly releasing a Nokia-compatible kit to allow Nokia phones to work with all the built-in Audi phone features. There are a couple postings on Audiworld.com (A6 forum) that describe custom installations for other makes of phones. Apparently, a skilled installer with access to the Audi pin data can install other kits. I'm suprised Audi has stuck with the obsolecent Motorola analog phone installation...its an indication of how slowly car design responds to the market.
I just read that there is a federal lawsuit against Audi for some problems with their fuel systems, causing the fuel gauge to read improperly and cause drivers to run out of fuel, which could be hazardous at 70 mph. Anybody heard about this, or has anyone experienced anything like this? Does throw a question into Audi's intent.
Also, new Automobile Magazine came in today, nice write-up on 2002 A4 with 3.0L engine.
Common problem on 98-99 models. It has been fixed but you still see an very occasional posting about it in later models on Audiworld.com. My understanding is that BMW and M/B had the same problem those years (same supplier).
I don't know about a lawsuit, but there has been a factory recall of the affected cars. My understanding is that some fuel sensors were adversely affected by sulphur in the gasoline, which resulted in malfunctioning fuel gauges. As far as I know, replacing the named sensor solves the problem in the affected cars.
There's been a great deal of discussion and information about this problem on the A6 forum at AudiWorld.com. You may want to check it out. If nothing else, you can join the large community of A6 enthusiasts there - we'd enjoy having you as a member of the group.
A dealer quoted me $43,100 (with almost no push on my part) for a 2001 A6 2.7T with preferred package, nav package, 16" sport package + stickshift. I'm also looking at the new C320 which, loaded to the gills, comes up for about the same price. Which makes most sense? (I do realize that A6 are usually compared with Es, and can probably answer my own question, but...).
Also what do you think of the quote, compared to $40,379 invoice and $45,355 sticker? (I live in the San Francisco Bay Area).
Thanks in advance for any quick response - I need to buy this Saturday.
Though I've never owned one, I've admired Mercedes Benz cars for some 30 years. In my college days I had a friend whose wealthy father would allow the family to drive only MB, because of their superior safety; as a result this kid (he was 19 or 20) drove a new 300SEL 6.3 and the old man had three 600s, 2 SWB models and 1 LWB pullman. Getting close to those cars back then, I could only look at them in awe with no hope of ever owning one. They were (in my mind) cars to be worshiped.
Fast forward 30 years. You work hard, you have some good luck, and what seemed so untouchable early in life is now realistically attainable. Sure, the legendary 600s are no more and the S Class is out of reach for most, but the current C Class is every inch a Benz, much more so than the little 220s of the early 70s. I look at the new C Class and current E Class and say, "These cars are genuinely within reach."
Guess what? They may be within reach, but I'll pass, thank you. Oh, they're still wonderful cars all right. It's just that (in my opinion) both pale in comparison to the A6 (ANY A6).
I'll start with the C Class. MB did a great job in making it look like a miniature version of the S Class. Styling is, of course, totally subjective, but my guess is that few will complain about this one. I checked it out closely at the auto show and liked it a lot.
The inside is also nicely styled, with a few caveats. The yellow instrument panel lighting is pretty disgusting, and the gauges themselves are sparse (speedo, tach, and fuel ONLY). Worst of all, the interior is cramped, especially in back. One is quickly reminded that this is a small car. If I'm going to drop over $40K for a 4 door sedan, I'd better be able to transport passengers comfortably; in my opinion, the C Class does not allow for that simply because of its size. Then there's interior styling. The Benz is nice, but unexciting. It takes few risks, much like a Honda Accord. It's a perfect example of why some people consider German car interiors to be "stark".
Enter the E Class. Size-wise, the car is very close to the A6. Styling is again subjective, but the E Class is looking kind of long in the tooth these days. Still, it's a good looking car. The problem is that it costs about $10K too much! Base price on an E320 is $48500! That's for a RWD model with with NO OPTIONS! Forget it.
Now take a close look at the A6, any A6, regardless of engine. You get gorgeous styling with just enough "edge" to it to attract attention. The car looks like nothing else on the road. The interior is just about the best in the industry; nothing else from Germany (including the S Class!) can touch it. It's spacious, luxurious, and beautiful. As I've said here many times before, this car is just about the perfect blend of luxury, performance, and sport, and I'm referring to the "lowly" 2.8Q! Get the 2.7T or 4.2 and it obviously gets even better.
In my opinion, your question is a no-brainer. If you're looking for the Teutonic version of a Buick, get the Benz. If you want a car that will give you goose bumps every time you get near it, the A6 is your only choice. Good luck!
Thanks -- I expected those answers. I had intially started looking at the MBs, thinking they looked nice and "affordable". But if one does not want the smaller-engined 240, the cost goes way up quickly, and started to be comparable to the A6, and I did realize that the A6 was much larger car (more powerful in the 2.7T version) and, if I'm not mistaken, has a better built quality. So if I'm gonna drop 40k + on the car, A6 it will be. And I'll try to pay no more than $1,500 over invoice (although my trading in a 1991 Honda Accord muddles things some).
You should be able to sell your Accord for a good price in a New York minute, doing much better than trade-in. You might be very surprised at its market value. I helped my son shop for a car last summer (LA area) and was shocked at the high prices for ten year old Hondas and Toyotas, even with 200K miles.
I'm trying to get an idea of what kind of lease payment I'm going to be looking at for 2.8 at negotiated cost of about $37K. Anyone have info on where Audi predicts residual value after 4 years and what their money factors are roughly?
On a 4 years lease, you'll probably get a 50-54% residual with a money factor anywhere from .032 to .05 depending on your credit. Try 52% and .0375 for a "normal" situation.
Well I'm about to acquire an A6 2.7T (take delivery Friday 15th Dec.) and I am definitely looking to get extended warranty especially after what happened on my Mazda 929S. With such a "hitech" car there are bound to be some problems that are going to be expensive to fix. I read your poster, tubey (540), and I was wondering if you have an address or phone no. or a web site where I can get more info on the various types of warranties available. Anyone any info on this subject please?
About my vehicle.....no I might just jinx it so I'll keep you all posted AFTER I get the vehicle in my possession. Right now it is sitting at a dealership in LA and I have a hold on it...but I'm going to call every day to make sure it still has a sold sign to me!!! I just can't get upto LA to pick it up until then. I am so deathly afraid they might sell it off. I have put a hold deposit on it though. More details next Friday at about this time...unless I decide to spend the night in the garage with the car!!!! With a support group that is in this chat room I just get the feeling that I have made the right choice in buying an Audi. I hope a few years down the road I will be able to help others who are about to make their first push on an Audi gas pedal! Would be much obliged for any info. on the warranty stuff. Merwan
Comments
I have driven all the cars mentioned above at speeds above 110mph -- I have also accelerated them "strongly" from street legal to autobahn speeds. I have never noticed anything I would consider a "back off." Heck, my 1999 A6 2.8 quattro, while no dragster, was strong and capable at legal and autobahn speeds. It just took a bit longer to reach any given speed when compared with the V8's or turbo engines.
None of this is meant to contradict the GS430 statements, per se. It appears that the GS430 does accelerate more quickly (all the car magazines report this consistently). My statement is only to question and argue the point that the Audi engines "back off." I have no experience that would validate that; and, I have read no reviews or reports that suggest Audi engines "back off." Please try another test drive.
Whew!
As far as I can see, the only major difference is that the '01 has a longer warranty. Does it also have full scheduled maintenance while the '00 doesn't? This is a point I'm confused on. Given the discounts I'm seeing on the '00, is the longer warranty/maintenance worth the price?
Also, they stopped making the stick for the '01 2.8. To get that, I have now have to go to the '01 2.7T. Is that price jump worth it?
I like the feel of the car and do 20k/yr of mostly highway driving. 0-60 times are not that important to me so I didn't really look at the 2.7T.
Anyone with thoughts on the subject?
thx
Also, from what you've said, it sounds like I should have no problem finding a '01 2.8 when I pull the trigger next month.
Thanks for all your help.
Jim
Otherwise, I'd go for the 2000.
- Warranty AND factory-paid scheduled maintenance were 3 yrs./50000 miles on 2000s; both increased to 4 yrs./50000 miles for '01.
- Electronic Stabilization Program (ESP) std. on '01 2.7T, 4.2; opt. on 2.8. N/A on 2000 models. (I've not driven an ESP-equipped car, so I can't comment on its effectiveness.)
- 2000 models with memory seat (part of Convenience Package) have driver-only memory feature. '01 models so equipped (Premium Package on 2.8, Preferred Luxury Package on 2.7T, std. on 4.2) also includes front passenger seat memory.
- For '01, Andorra Red is available on 4.2 only (available on all 2000 models).
- Jaspis Green (available on 2000 2.8 & 2.7T) dropped for 2001.
- Royal Blue "Ambiente" interior, available on all 2000 models in leather or leatherette with Casablanca White and Light Silver Metallic, dropped for '01. (Vanilla/Royal Blue leather is still available on '01s.)
- Lago Green "Advance" interior, available on 2000 2.8 & 2.7T in cloth or leather with Jaspis Green or Light Silver Metallic, dropped for '01.
- Nemo Blue introduced as a new color for '01, available only on 4.2.
- Sideguard F+R head airbags optional on all 2000 models, std. on all '01s.
- Some 2000 2.8s with the Preferred Equipment Package (leather seating, power moonroof, HomeLink, heavily discounted vs. individual selling prices) came through with compact spare tires. As far as I know, all '01s have full-sized spares.
- '01 2.7T has more available Sport Packages than in 2000, including one with 17" wheels.
As for the 2.8 vs. 2.7T, here are my thoughts...others may disagree. Whether with the 2.7T-exclusive 6-speed manual or the Tiptronic, the 2.7T is without question a high-performance luxury sedan. It has fabulous acceleration and leaves little to be desired in its driving experience. Those who own them love them. If properly maintained, there's no reason to believe that the 2.7T is any more prone to failure than the 2.8. Sure, if the turbos die and need replacement, you'd be looking at a big bill, but my understanding is that Audi's turbos can be reasonably expected to last as long as the rest of the car. In addition, the 2.7T is available with Sport Packages (several unique combinations of upgraded suspension, seats, wheels, and tires) that are not available on the 2.8.
The 2.8 (which I own, with quattro and Tiptronic), absolutely does not fly like the 2.7T. It does, however, perform and accelerate very nicely. You may have read others' comments about the 2.8 being "under-powered"; I've owned mine for 6 months and absolutely disagree with that assessment. It goes just fine! I've never been disappointed in the performance of the car, and I'm not always easy to please.
Now, if the rocket-like acceleration of the 2.7T is what you want, then you'll not be happy with the 2.8, no question about it. If money isn't an object, or if you don't mind paying roughly $4000 - $5000 more for a comparably-equipped 2.7T, buy it and don't look back. You won't regret it, as it's a FABULOUS automobile. On the other hand, if the extra $$$ puts the car out of reach or is too much of a stretch to be comfortable, get the 2.8. Nothing else on the market comes closer to the 2.7T than the 2.8!
By the way, as if you couldn't tell, ALL A6s are great cars. Regardless of which version you opt for, you'll be getting a car that puts a grin on your face every time you sit in it.
Good luck, and please keep us posted.
- Mike
An outright purchase on a 2000 will be less than the same for a 2001.
The 2000 cannot have ESP, it is available on the 2001 (and standard on the 2.7T and 4.2).
ESP, in my opinion is in the same league as ABS brakes and I would NOT get a 2000 for that reason, but then again I always lease, so the newer car generally is less expensive.
The 2.7T is fantastic -- acceleration is very strong. Yet, otherwise comparably equipped, the A6 2.8 Q, and the A6 2.7T Q would be hard to differentiate at 80MPH on a freeway. Oh but there is that acceleration when you need it.
Drive them both, back to back. Make a choice, you won't go wrong.
That's my 2cents worth.
I decided on a '00 A6 2.8Q w/ preferred equip pack, cold weather and Bose audio for $35,800. (Seemed like a fair price.) The 2.7T is more engine than I need since 0-60 is not that big of a deal to me. I could not justify the extra $4k.
I live in the Boston area and based on previous posts going back several weeks I wish to offer a couple of comments on Bernardi (where I didn't purchase the car). The observation I have about them is that they are a very busy dealership due to their location and don't give a good 'casual buying experience'. Getting a salesman's undivided attention was tough so when I called around for '00-s I was not surprised that they said they had been out for a couple of months. I'm getting rid of a Subaru and had it serviced at their Subaru dealership which is next door. They did good, but pricey, repair work at the Subaru shop and I'll probably try them for my Audi maintenance.
Anyone out there with a similar problem or do you think this is an isolated incident?
Thanks!
For the entire model year 2000, the multi-function steering wheel (with illuminated buttons for stereo and in some cases factory phone) was available on the A6 2.8 (and 2.7T) as part of the "Convenience Package" (which also included the power moonroof, memory driver's seat & outside mirrors, auto-dimming inside & outside mirrors, and HomeLink). M.S.R.P. on the package was $1650. Note that ordering the Convenience Package would, by definition, disallow ordering the "Preferred Equipment Package" (leather, moonroof, and HomeLink). If you wanted leather on a car with the Convenience Package, you had to order it as a $1550 stand-alone option.
I have a model year 2000 A6 2.8Q with the Convenience Package, and I use the steering wheel stereo controls a lot. They're nicely backlit in red and they work well. My car was built in April, 2000 which means that the left and right bottom buttons will control the Audi phone ONLY (which I don't have); without the phone, those buttons are useless (though I recently heard that Audi will soon offer a hands-free adapter that will allow the buttons to work with certain after-market phones). In earlier-built 2000 A6s, however, those bottom buttons control radio (up and down seek of pre-programmed stations) and CD changer (next or previous disc) functions.
For model year 2001, the wheel in question IS available on the 2.8 as part of the $1025 "Premium Package", which also includes memory for driver and front passenger front seats & outside mirrors, auto-dimming inside & outside mirrors, and xenon headlights. Sadly, this package is not available on cars ordered with the "Celebration Luxury Package" (moonroof, leather, and HomeLink, specially priced at $1975). If you want the Convenience Package, the only way to get leather is as a $1550 stand-alone option. Similarly, the only way to get the moonroof and HomeLink on 2001 cars with the Convenience Package is to order them in the $1200 "Sunroof Package".
What I've stated here are absolute facts, Jim. Any dealer who tells you otherwise is giving you misinformation. To get a 2001 A6 2.8 (or 2.7T) with the multi-function steering wheel, you need only find one equipped with the Premium Package. It's that simple.
Hope this helps.
- Mike
I feel the same way about my A6 2.7T (TIP!). I ride in a 225HP TT, and I felt my car was much faster. It isn't though.
Impressions matter.
But WOW, those puppies (BMW 540's) seem to be so much more money than Audi's. A 2000 A6 4.2 "listed" at $48,900 and a 5 series with a six cylinder engine and "all the [similar] goodies" was $49,200 -- comparatively it was not at all quick and was certainly more cramped -- and for me at least, the real selling point was quattro which here in Cincinnati is regularly appreciated both from a safety and a "getting stuck" point of view.
Yet my friends are just as certain as I am about my Audi, that the BMW's are high value cars, worth every penny.
Impressions, indeed!
What I don't understand is why they cost so much
more than comparable Audis. Maybe BMWs must be
owned in order to be fully understood and
appreciated. (I've never owned one.)
Another thing that I don't understand is their
"snob factor". From the sound of their
advertising, it's even as though BMW consciously
tries to appeal to arrogance! (Just listen to the
tone of Joseph Campanella's voice in the radio
commercials.) In my mind, BMW is positioned as the
car of choice for snobs. That alone is enough to
make me stay away, regardless of the actual
attributes of the cars. I just don't want to be
associated with the marque in any way.
Now, that doesn't actually address whether you are getting a better car with a BMW than an Audi. But since you really buy a car with very little data to go by (specs plus a test drive), the safer bet can cost more.
MB makes tons of money this way. You may not get the best car available for the money, but you are fairly certain of what you will get, and that it isn't a lemon.
What I don't understand about the BMW mystique is how people put them so high on a pedestal that they don't even bother to consider whether another car could equal it.
Still, there are bigger mistakes in this world to make than spending a little more than you needed to to get a car you like a lot.
I look at Audi as a car company that has had to work extremely hard in the past 10 years (since the "fiasco") to show the buying public just what terrific cars they can build. It was a matter of their very survival. In my book, they've succeeded in spades; just look at their entire line. The cars are beautifully styled, brilliantly engineered, and pack a perfect combination of luxury, performance, and sportiness, all at a much more reasonable price than their German (or Swedish) competition. In my book, that makes Audi "The Real Deal".
Has anyone explored buying a new Audi in Canada and driving it back? On another forum, one of the posters saved thousands of $$ due to the weak Canadian Dollar, even after paying the small duty at the border. The speedo is in Kph first and Mph second, but you get DRLs! Comments? Seems like it's worth a visit to Vancouver.
Not spending the time negotiating with 5 dealers is worth $165 to me, but I can't find any posts from people who have used them. Does anyone have and good or bad experience with them? Coldwel
I don't know where you're located, but regardless, $3500 over invoice is absurd. Here in CA, $1200-1500 over invoice is typical on 2.8s. 2.7Ts and 4.2s run a little higher, but to the best of my knowledge even they can be had for $2000-2500 over. Of course, the flip side here is that most buyers live within a reasonable distance of more than one Audi dealership, which results in stiffer competition.
Personally, I wouldn't spend the $165. Instead, I'd use Edmunds.com to get the invoice price on my A6 of choice (their numbers are very reliable), then I'd offer the dealer(s) $1000 over. After the usual dickering, I'd give the deal to the first dealer who agrees to a number anywhere between the initial offer of $1000 and a high of $1500 over. Such a deal would be fair to all concerned.
Good luck!
- Mike
But, as I say, with so few dealers around (there are three in the Seattle/Tacoma area; four, if you include Bellingham)I doubt that Car Bargains could source anything very impressive. Now, if you're in a larger area with more dealers, then that would probably be a different picture. But, if you look at the dealer list in the portfolio that comes with the car, there just aren't that many Audi dealers period.
1. Can anyone verify extended warranty numbers.
2. Is it worth it? After the warranty ends, what should one expect to pay for normal maintenance and service?
Thanks
So, I bought an extended warranty through the broker who sold me the car. The company behind it is Heritage, a GE company, out of, I believe, Lincoln, NB. I bought it just before the car turned over 12k because I was told that it would increase $100 after that.
The exclusions are the usual - consumables, normal "wear and tear" items - but everything else was covered. Tbe base price was $1,275 for 7years/100k miles. I paid $75 extra for zero deductible; $100 extra for a money-back guaranteee(which means, if you never use it, you can be totally reimbursed for the premium); and $100 for All-Wheel Drive. Total: $1,550.
As for what maintenance costs are after warranty, I'm not sure, but an Audi service department could certainly tell you what some of the recommended intervals are and what they cost. I believe 60k or thereabouts is a real gasser; plus, you can well imagine that changing the timing belt is not going to be any bargain. Yeah, and that's a consumable, so it won't be covered under any extended warranty.
Years ago someone whose opinion I always regarded when it came to things automotive said that the initial price of a high-end European car is only the beginning. Maintenance can be a real killer, and I'm sure there are many MB, BMW, and (yikes!) Jag owners who would certainly agree.
Good luck
A case in point: Back in January I ordered my A6 through the now-defunct CarOrder.com. The price was a mere $592 over invoice! What I learned, though, was that CarOrder actually subsidized my purchase by some $800; they paid more for the car than they charged me! (Anyone care to guess why they dried up and went away?) When I ordered my car through CarOrder, they in turn ordered it through one of their "participating dealers". The dealer charged them approximately $1400 over invoice. By the dealer's own admission, I could have gotten the same price ($1400 over) by going directly to the dealer. That would have made sense, of course, except for the $800 subsidy.
So, if you don't mind the negotiating process, my earlier advice still stands: Determine the total invoice price of the car you want (including options and destination). Start by offering $1000 over, but be willing to pay up to $1500 over. A deal within those numbers is one you can feel good about.
There are two typical options:
1. Dealer-provided. Good news is they usually cover repairs well. Bad news is if you move out of the area, the warranty is useless, as it is only good at one dealer.
2. Third-party warranties. These are good anywhere, and backed by a third party. Only problem is that some have a bad reputation as to paying the repair shop back, so it may not be accepted at all shops, or you may be asked to pay for the repairs up front and be reimbursed. Ask the shops you are considering using if they accept the warranty you are considering buying.
i wanted to thank you all again for your advice from 2 weeks ago. i got the car this weekend!!!
ming blue/tungsten leather, really looks sharp.
i only have one small problem with it. my wife wont let me drive it!
rickg
Markcincinnati: I couldn't agree with you more re the S-class vs. the 740. Last December, we were looking for a car to replace my wife's car. I saw the S-class, and thought it was very cool, but I didn't think it drives all that great. Too soft. I ended up at the BMW dealer down here, and took a 740iL on the spot. It was a surprise Christmas gift, and she loves it. What a great car. Excellent driver, and it's wonderful at speeds over 100. Truly amazing. The A8 was not a competitor in this class, as much as they say it is. And forget the LS430/LS400. We've had it for one year, and no problems.
Tell him to enjoy it.
But I don't like sending money to an unproven company so I'll try Mike's idea. I'll call the fleet managers (I don't need test drives) and see who will take $1,000 over invoice. I'll post how I came out. Thanks, John
M
By the way I love the car it's the perfect blend sports and practicality.
http://www.audiworld.com/forum/a6.html
I think there was a post a while ago about an upcoming Audi kit to allow the adaptation of non-Audi installed phones. Try the search function.
How do you like your car?
M
Also, new Automobile Magazine came in today, nice write-up on 2002 A4 with 3.0L engine.
There's been a great deal of discussion and information about this problem on the A6 forum at AudiWorld.com. You may want to check it out. If nothing else, you can join the large community of A6 enthusiasts there - we'd enjoy having you as a member of the group.
- Mike
Also what do you think of the quote, compared to $40,379 invoice and $45,355 sticker? (I live in the San Francisco Bay Area).
Thanks in advance for any quick response - I need to buy this Saturday.
Fast forward 30 years. You work hard, you have some good luck, and what seemed so untouchable early in life is now realistically attainable. Sure, the legendary 600s are no more and the S Class is out of reach for most, but the current C Class is every inch a Benz, much more so than the little 220s of the early 70s. I look at the new C Class and current E Class and say, "These cars are genuinely within reach."
Guess what? They may be within reach, but I'll pass, thank you. Oh, they're still wonderful cars all right. It's just that (in my opinion) both pale in comparison to the A6 (ANY A6).
I'll start with the C Class. MB did a great job in making it look like a miniature version of the S Class. Styling is, of course, totally subjective, but my guess is that few will complain about this one. I checked it out closely at the auto show and liked it a lot.
The inside is also nicely styled, with a few caveats. The yellow instrument panel lighting is pretty disgusting, and the gauges themselves are sparse (speedo, tach, and fuel ONLY). Worst of all, the interior is cramped, especially in back. One is quickly reminded that this is a small car. If I'm going to drop over $40K for a 4 door sedan, I'd better be able to transport passengers comfortably; in my opinion, the C Class does not allow for that simply because of its size. Then there's interior styling. The Benz is nice, but unexciting. It takes few risks, much like a Honda Accord. It's a perfect example of why some people consider German car interiors to be "stark".
Enter the E Class. Size-wise, the car is very close to the A6. Styling is again subjective, but the E Class is looking kind of long in the tooth these days. Still, it's a good looking car. The problem is that it costs about $10K too much! Base price on an E320 is $48500! That's for a RWD model with with NO OPTIONS! Forget it.
Now take a close look at the A6, any A6, regardless of engine. You get gorgeous styling with just enough "edge" to it to attract attention. The car looks like nothing else on the road. The interior is just about the best in the industry; nothing else from Germany (including the S Class!) can touch it. It's spacious, luxurious, and beautiful. As I've said here many times before, this car is just about the perfect blend of luxury, performance, and sport, and I'm referring to the "lowly" 2.8Q! Get the 2.7T or 4.2 and it obviously gets even better.
In my opinion, your question is a no-brainer. If you're looking for the Teutonic version of a Buick, get the Benz. If you want a car that will give you goose bumps every time you get near it, the A6 is your only choice. Good luck!
Anyone any info on this subject please?
About my vehicle.....no I might just jinx it so I'll keep you all posted AFTER I get the vehicle in my possession. Right now it is sitting at a dealership in LA and I have a hold on it...but I'm going to call every day to make sure it still has a sold sign to me!!!
I just can't get upto LA to pick it up until then. I am so deathly afraid they might sell it off. I have put a hold deposit on it though. More details next Friday at about this time...unless I decide to spend the night in the garage with the car!!!!
With a support group that is in this chat room I just get the feeling that I have made the right choice in buying an Audi. I hope a few years down the road I will be able to help others who are about to make their first push on an Audi gas pedal!
Would be much obliged for any info. on the warranty stuff.
Merwan
Thanks