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Audi A6



  • Jim3039 - Congratulations on your choice of a new Audi!

    1. The Acqiusition Fee - This is their fee for "acquiring" or buying the car in the first place. It seemss like this is what the dealer's profit is for, yes? YES - they can drop it if you insist. Some dealers don't even have this gouge added to their contracts. Just be ready to walk out over this.

    2. Disposition Fee - This is to pay them to "dispose" of the car when the lease was up. Gee, I thought that's what resale profit was for. You can see how ridiculous these arbitrary fees are. IF they made NO profit on the sale of the cars, this would be acceptable, but otherwise??? Again- be firm - and DO NOT pay it! Total ripoff!

    3. Other Fees - Just keep you eyes open - other have mentioned even "Messenger Fees"!! How absured.

    Just be aware that every dollar that you do not pay out the door gets rolled into the Cap Cost, and you pay interest on that. So - If they hit you with a $600 fee that you pay up front, that is $600 less that you have to reduce the Cap Cost, or use for something else. Just be careful and take your time. Better to write down all the figures, take them home and study them.

    Good Luck!
  • Here in Cincinnati we are having a snow storm.

    After having been through Audi driving school 3 times -- twice for me and once for my wife, we have learned a few things that may help you.

    As they say -- the "general spirit" of the following is accurate -- but, my advice to you is to test these techniques at a place where there's no one else around (an empty parking lot, for example -- that is covered with snow or slush).

    Ok folks here is the first Big One (snow storm) of the Winter of 2000 - 2001 (at least in Cincinnati).

    Most of you reading this have cars that have ABS (Anti-lock Braking Systems).

    Most of you reading this have PROBABLY had the ABS engage at one time or another during your driving history.

    Most of you -- and no offense intended to anyone -- according to statistics, do not know how to use ABS properly.

    Most people when they apply their brakes on a slick surface notice the "chattering" or pulsing sensation they feel through the brake pedal -- this sort of a "joy buzzer" feeling is generally a surprise and sometimes, depending on the thickness of your shoes, may even give a bit of a tickle sensation. Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!

    The next thing most people do when this pulsing starts is either:

    1. Reduce pressure on the brake pedal in an attempt to get the pulsing to stop; or,

    2. Maintain pressure on the brake thinking that the technology is in control and will help them stop -- in other words they more or less ignore the brake and let the technology "do its thing."

    Both of these "typical" responses are wrong, #1 is the most wrong, however.

    Generally, the action you should take when the ABS pulsing sensation begins is to significantly INCREASE the pressure you are applying on the brake pedal. This is true for both automatic transmission and manual shift transmission.

    Until the car is going very slowly, if the car is a stick shift, you should NOT depress the clutch until "impending wheel lockup" which will happen even with ABS at speeds less than 10 - 15 mph (generally less than 10 mph is when you should depress the clutch to prevent the engine from stalling).

    Doing #1 or #2 above will INCREASE the stopping distance -- which is probably not what you had intended.

    Increasing the brake pressure -- by imagining (and trying to accomplish) your right leg pressing at 80 - 100 pounds pressure -- will DECREASE your stopping distance and the car will still be able to be steered.

    Now, of course if you ARE going too fast for the car to actually be turned, you will have a condition called UNDERSTEER. And this too is the tricky one -- if, for example, you are trying to make a left turn, and the ABS "kicks in" and you keep pressing harder and harder on the brake and simultaneously turn the steering wheel to the left and the car continues to go "straight" -- you are UNDERSTEERING.

    Most people will turn the wheel even further to the left hoping to make the car go in the direction they intended. Well, I am here to tell you that if you are in such a situation and you have turned the wheel [all the way, e.g.] to the left and the car is going "mostly straight" heading toward a telephone pole instead of turning left at 90 degrees -- you CAN (probably) make the car complete the left turn by turning the wheel about a half to a full a turn TO THE RIGHT!

    It doesn't "feel" natural -- but I swear, it works!

    The worst that will happen is that you will hit the pole anyway, and it is more likely that the car will actually turn left -- even though you just turned the wheel to the right.

    Give it a try (in that empty parking lot). It could prevent an accident!

    Maintain assured clear distance -- and be careful out there.
  • rollierollie Posts: 337
    Regarding posts 588 and 590:

    Great posts! Between the two I noticed you overlooked some critical information related to stability control systems (ESP, DSC, DSTC, etc. etc.). You are probably aware of this but I want to point it out as often as I see an opportunity - accident avoidance maneuvers MUST be conducted contrary to our training using these systems. In cars without stability control systems, we have all been taught to steer in the same direction as the sliding rear-end of the car. With stability control systems THIS WILL CAUSE AN ACCIDENT. The proper response with a stability control system active is to keep the steering wheel pointed where you want the car to go. This is counterintuitive and I highly encourage all drivers with these systems to go out and practice this a couple of times in a snow or ice covered EMPTY parking lot to train your body to not automatically try to correct a slide. It can be particularly tricky for some cars where the driver has the choice of whether they want to turn off the stability control system (I don't know if it is driver selectable in the Audis but I know it is in our Volvos). In these cases, the driver must be acutely aware of whether or not their system is active at any point while they are driving otherwise they could get into real trouble real quick by either steering or not steering to correct a slide.


  • rjsenrjsen Posts: 30
    The only thing I might add is that ideally, you shouldn't trigger the ABS in the first place if stopping as quickly as possible is your goal. even though modern ABS systems are quite good, they still can't stop a car in as short a distance as a driver who's properly threshold braking. Now, ABS certainly has many advantages (such as the ability to safely steer while braking), but stopping distance is not one of them.
  • automophile - Thanks for the great lease negotiating tips. My goal is keep my total out-of-pocket around $1,500 to $2,000 on a negotiated price of approximately $37,000. Let's see how much luck I have.

    bryhyde - Regarding Audi's strange options packaging on the A6, I have been in a similar situation. I've had at least 2 dealers tell me I could not get the Premium Package, Leather and Sunroof/Homelink unless I special ordered. Thanks Mike's advice in this forum, I've made additional calls and think I've found a 2.8 equipped as refrenced above. My advice is to call other dealers. I've been amazed by the inaccurate information various dealers have quoted me during this process. Good Luck.
  • The advantages of threshold breaking over ABS are so very minimal, and the edge you need to hold it on to get the advantage is so small that you shouldn't bother trying to hit the threshold unless you are incredibly familar with your car and have had tons of practice doing it.

    Even in track racing where drivers are very familiar with their cars and use full-force braking all the time, most teams now run with ABS in races which allow it. Even when the rules require a weight or HP penalty.

    You probably should let the ABS do the work.

    markcincinnati, why shouldn't I take the engine power off? I don't do it anyway (in my auto), but how would it hurt? In a stick I almost always brake with the clutch in.

    Also note that Audi's ABS system is less loud, disruptive, and makes the pedal bounce less than most other systems.
  • mpuzachmpuzach Posts: 635
    In case it's still not clear, here's a clarification of the option availability on the A6 2.8. The "Celebration Luxury Package", priced at $1975, is a very cost effective way to get leather seating, power moonroof, and HomeLink. Most 2001 A6 2.8s in dealer stock include this package. There's only one drawback: On any A6 2.8 ordered with this package, the following items cannot be ordered:

    - Premium Package (multi-function steering wheel, memory front seats & outside mirrors, auto-dimming inside & outside mirrors, and xenon headlights)

    - Guidance Package (navigation system & ParkTronic)

    - CD Changer (no problem; can still be dealer-installed)

    - Audi factory phone (same as above)

    No one at Audi has been able to give me a reasonable explanation for this. It's really stupid, since there's no overlap of components between the Celebration Luxury Package and the pre-empted items. What makes it even more stupid is that they'll let you order any/all of the disallowed items as long as you don't say, "...and I'd also like to spend an additional $1975 for the Celebration Luxury Package." Spend that $$$, and they won't sell you any of the other items listed. Stupid, very stupid.

    There IS, however, a very easy way to get a 2.8 equipped just the way you want it; the only drawback is that you don't reap the high value of the Celebration Luxury Package's low pricing. Here's what to do:

    - If you want leather, order it as the $1550 stand-alone option. It's not shown in the brochure as an "option package" because it's not a "package"; it's a stand-alone option available on the 2.8 only.

    - If you want the moonroof, order the $1200 "Sunroof Package" (which also includes HomeLink).

    - Order any, all, or none of the other available options, including the "Premium Package", "Guidance Package", CD changer, or phone. (Note that the "Cold Weather Package" can be ordered on any A6 2.8, regardless of the absence or presence of other options.)

    Although the dealers tend to stock A6 2.8s equipped with the Celebration Luxury Package (and hence without the Premium Package or other ineligible options), I'm seeing more and more in dealer stock (here in northern CA) with stand-alone leather, Sunroof Package, and Premium Package. My hunch is that the latter versions weren't available during initial production, but they definitely are available now.

    I'll throw in just one final thought. I think you're wise to hold your ground on getting a car with the Premium Package. While the multi-function wheel and memory seats are nice, the auto-dimming mirrors and xenon headlights are fabulous;in my opinion, they fully justify their price of admission.

    Good luck in your quest. Let me know if I can be of further help.

    - Mike
  • dwpcdwpc Posts: 159
    My '01 2.7T has both the "Preferred" (leather, sunroof, Homelink) and "Premium" pkg. as described above.
  • mpuzachmpuzach Posts: 635
    The entire process is actually much simpler on the 2.7T. The only way to get leather, moonroof, HomeLink, or memory seats/mirrors is to order the $2925 "Preferred Luxury Package" which includes all 4 items. It can be ordered regardless of whether or not the $800 "Premium Package" (multi-function steering wheel, auto-dimming mirrors, and xenon headlights) is ordered, and vice versa.
  • I was looking at the options list for the 2.7T and noticed there is a sport package available with 17" wheels. Is this true and does anyone out there recommend that size over the standard 16"?

    Thanks for your help.
  • We took delivery of our new A6 2.8Q a couple of weeks ago and are noticing a decrease in responsiveness in the powertrain. It seems to be most noticeable when shifting out of reverse and into drive, as there's a definite lag, but the shifts between all the gears are somewhat sloppy. I checked the postings over at Audiworld and noticed so folks had changed out the control module chips for third party products in the pursuit of better performance. I'm suspecting this is my problem but does anybody know if the Audi dealers are doing a chip changeout or a computer reflash to correct this problem?
  • I know its early, but anyone have info on the 2002 A6?
  • Goodday. Now that I have finally settled for a A6 4.2, the only question remains is do I need to replace the P6000 tires with snow ones?? The tires' size is 255/40-17. I plan to go to a few ski trips in New England. I am considering Bridgestone Blizzak, but they only comes in 235/40-17.I am not sure whether I should spend another 800 bucks for snow tires on a new all wheel drive car.

    Mike, thank you for your pictures and all your valuable suggestions throughout the post. I have decided to go for Melange/Melange, hoping it will be a bit more "heat resistance" during the summer. The Vanilla/Royal Blue is not as striking as I thought it would be. It seems to be a better fit fot A4. Burgundry/Black Interior would be my next choice.
  • Steve you asked: "markcincinnati, why shouldn't I take the engine power off? I don't do it anyway (in my auto), but how would it hurt? In a stick I
    almost always brake with the clutch in." I must be very careful in my explanation and response to you (and others) regarding this issue. First, I
    agree with you -- but I must add a bit of qualification to that agreement. Our Audi driving instructors called the technique the "Bruce Lee." They said
    you should hit the brake pedal with maximum force and a moment later (ranging from a split second to a second or more) depress the clutch
    pedal. The wheel speeds could get too low if you "linger longer" with the clutch engaged and this may stall the engine. The reason for the
    one-two kick on the pedals is to achieve a little extra help in braking from the engine. In practice, we all probably do this motion "instinctively" --
    in that we press the brake pedal first and the clutch second, even if it is only a momentary time lapse between the two actions. I probably
    inadvertently (and perhaps incorrectly) wrote my "suggested method" -- slamming on both the brake and clutch "simultaneously" thereby
    reducing the chances of stalling the engine IS NOT wrong -- we are (I am) splitting hairs to make the point. Anyway, I do agree with all the posts
    that suggest "trying this [behavior/technique]" in an empty parking lot. Thanks for pointing this out.
  • rjsenrjsen Posts: 30
    2002 A6: Should be the same as 2001, with possible minor changes.

    Snow tires: The P6000s are warm-weather performance tires. They really don't perform their best in cold weather, let alone snow. Definitely get snow tires if you'll drive in snow at all. As for the quattro thing, four times zero is still zero. Oh, and shen you're getting snow tires, you should probably get a narrower, higher-profile tire mounted on a plain steel rim. There's no point in messing up your nice new alloy wheels with salt and chemicals, and narrow tires will give more traction on ice or snow.
  • Picking up a ming blue A6 2.7 T with Tiptronic (wife did not want a stick, and I might use it to commute on those stop-and-go Bay Area freeways) tomorrow. Cold Weather package. Premium package. Preferred luxury package. Bose sound system. $1,800 over invoice. Probably could have pushed it down a little further, but why bother?
  • Verlaqueusa -

    Sounds like you made a pretty good deal. I am also looking to close a deal real soon in the Bay Area. Could you provide some feedback on dealers? Which one did you buy from? and did you talk with others? I stopped by Carlson and talked briefly with a salesman -- his opening salvo was "we'll talk, but we don't discount these very much"


  • Yes, I did pretty much all over the phone. Called 6 dealers in SF, the Peninsula (Burlingame and PA), the East Bay (Walnut Creek and Concord) and Marin County and asked about cars on the lot. The guy in Concord (Internet sales manager) started discounting $2,000 off MSRP before I even said anything and we ended up that first conversation at $2,500 off MSRP. In my second conversation I got him down to $3,000 off MSRP (roughly $2,000 over invoice, although he had a $180 charge for a CD in his invoice I could not quite explain). The dealer in Marin started talking tough, then, seeing that I would do it elsewhere, offered me $2,000 over invoice, then $1,800 over invoice, so I dealt with him (as mentioned earlier, I could probably have played the game further and get down to $1,500 over, but...).
  • 2002 models should have the new 3.0 engine, coupled with twin turbot should produce around 300hp stock, who needs an S6 (I do, but no word if they will bring it to the us), also the new sport pkg. I/17inch rims should improve the handling, especially utilizing a stick. I currently have an 98 a4 2.8q w5sp/sport, which I love, except for the size. I,I tempted to upgrade to an a6 one of these days, but part of me says keep it for a winter car and get a bow 330Cic, which is a tremendous car. keep the good info coming... thanks
  • mpuzachmpuzach Posts: 635
    What is the source of your information regarding engines for 2002?
  • The 3.0 engine is a sure bet, but the twin turbos only go on the 2.7T still.
  • I've had my A6 4.2 since October of 1999, so I've gone through one winter with it. Although it would benefit from snow tires, they're not absolutely essential. We live in northwest Wisconsin, so we get a fair amount of snow. I've driven on the highway through some unplowed roads during snowstorms and have been very impressed with the car's performance.

    Snow tires would help with lateral sliding when cornering, and probably with stopping faster. I'd recommend trying the car and seeing what you think.

  • jdg99jdg99 Posts: 6
    I will soon be buying a 1998 A6 Quattro from a relative. I can either buy privately or through a dealer (Relative is getting a new A6 2.7T.)

    Question: Should I purchase through the dealer in order to get the Audi Assured Warranty? The dealer will not mark-up the trade-in price, but will charge $1,000 for the warranty.

    The car has 34,000 miles on it and went into service in September 1998. Therefore I would have 6-9 months of factory coverage (if that warranty can be transferred.)
  • Took delivery of my A6 2.7T before the week-end. Loves it! A couple of questions, though. Xenon headlight range seems kind of short. And trunk gate requires to be lifted pretty much all the way and squeals while doing so. Any thought?
  • dwpcdwpc Posts: 159
    Compare the xenon pattern to regular lights...they are very bright right to the edge of the pattern and can be deceiving. If the pattern still looks short the dealer should adjust it. Your trunk lid should raise very easily and silently; something is not right.
  • Thank you Risen and Docimmer for your input on Winter tires.

    I have just taken delivery of my 4.2 with sports and premium package. This car is really a luxury automobile, not a sports sedan as its exterior suggest. Maybe it is because I am now driving the A6 in a very timid way. Should I wait till say 3000 miles before I drive it aggressively? I cruise mildly on highway; however, I love to shoot the gear down to second entering a curve and come out flying as high as the car allows me.
    I still have not learned all the bells & whistles yet, like the home link. My family knows where to find me during the long weekend.

    BTW, the fuel gauge works well, there is no distortion on the windshield, no swirl mark etc etc...
    I have kept my P6000 tires. I shall see how it fares during these last few days of year 2000.

    Last but not least: I am now a proud owner of an A6.
  • For those of you who had no trouble zeroing in on the A6 but then wrestled with the decision of 4.2 or 2.7 or 2.7T, what were the factors that helped you make up your mind?
  • mbnut1mbnut1 Posts: 403
    Get the warrenty. It will be the best $1000 you ever spent
  • dwpcdwpc Posts: 159
    The price difference...not much more than bragging rights for an additional $5 to $10K.
    2.7T has better performance and regardless of what the diehards claim, the two models are virtually identical in looks. 4.2 offers a few more std features....but for a lot more money. And the 2.7T get better mileage.
  • Joe:

    Take a long test drive of three vehicles -- 2.7T with automatic, then the 6 speed manual 2.7T; then take a test drive of a 4.2 (only comes with 5spd automatic). Hopefully, each of the cars you test has the "sport package" -- and bettter yet hopefully the 2.7T's have the 17" wheel option as part of their sport packages. I have driven (and now own) A6's both with and without the sport package -- the difference is ride quality is fairly subtle, the difference in handling is not subtle.

    The A6 4.2 is best described -- to compare and/or contrast it with the 2.7T -- as more refined, better balanced (with sport package) -- it has more "poise." The typical Audi solid-steel feel is even more so on the 4.2 (than the 2.7T). They do perform similarly, but make no mistake -- according to the fine print, the 2.7T is a hair quicker than the 4.2. The 4.2 makes much "sweeter sounds" when pressed, but this in no way is meant to demean the 2.7T.

    The 4.2 appears (and is) more agressive -- flared fenders, slightly longer, body effects etc. Again some of these differences are subtle -- but they are far from hidden. Creature comforts, depending on your tastes -- more in the 4.2.

    Another difference I noticed is a feeling that can be best described as muscular -- the 4.2 has more strength. This is manifested in several ways: over a bump, a railroad crossing, a washboard road, etc. The 2.7T is somehow less strong, less sturdy feeling when compared back to back with the 2.7T.

    In their own way, each one is a bargain. Each one will make you smile. Each one provides many safety features and creature comforts. Apparently there is more "dealing" room on a 4.2 so the monthly lease payment difference between the two are not too great.

    I would love to have my 4.2 with a 6 sp manual transmission -- this is my most significant "gripe" with the car. I have been told that there is a 6 speed tiptronic transmission that will "equal" the performance of the 6 spd manual -- but alas not here in the US and not in 2001 (so far).

    It is not necessarily an easy choice -- again, try the back to back to back test drives if at all possible.
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