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March 2004 sales............ 3,827 units
March 2003 sales............ 4,917 units
Percentage decline.......... -22.2%
2004 Q1 sales................ 9,883 units
2003 Q1 sales................ 13,016 units
Percentage decline.......... -25.1%
It appears that their are broad declines in the Corolla, Camry, and Eco sedans but big improvements in trucks and the Lexus division. What gives? is this a broad decline in sedans overall or just the Toyota brands are ready for yet another face lift.
Most vehicles experience downturns in sales as they age, except where incentives are present. Smartly, Toyota has realized that incentives arent a good idea for the Avalon, as its margins are generally quite good (even with fewer sales), with research, development, and production costs having been amortized through the heavy reliance on Camry components and TMMK. The lack of incentives may hurt sales of this aging model, but also helps to keep resale up, something Toyota probably prefers to higher sales figures.
The 2006 Avalon, due next Spring, sure sounds like its going to drive sales through the roof if well priced and executed!
my .02.
~alpha
What do you know about the 06 Avalon ? I asked this about 2 weeks ago and didn't get much clear info on what the differences will be for this redesign. I'm thinking of possibly buying an 04 but not if there are going to be really big improvements by next spring.
BUT, all of this......Debut date, styling, features, and other applications of this engine itself remain to be seen. Probably didnt help much, sorry. In all, I would be shocked if there isnt an all-new Avalon by this time next year.
I personally wouldnt buy an 04, unless you can get some kind of super deal, but for me, the current model lacks a major safety feature, and I'd at least wait a few months until the fall, to see if Side Curtains are offered in the expected short-run, 2005 version.
~alpha
The owner's manual says oil changes every 5,000 miles. The dealer where I usually go for service says 3,000 miles (and vaguely suggests that, though the manual "isn't wrong," the dealership thinks more often is better). And the dealer I bought the car from put a sticker in the car saying the first oil change should be at 1,000 miles.
What do the helpful folks in this forum think?
Thanks!
Before I bought my 02 Avalon, I had bought new a 90 Civic EX, and ran it until 236,000 miles when I sold it to a soldier here in NY state. I performed, I more than "they" every 5K for a number of reasons. The biggest support is the testing that CR did with NY city taxis and measuring engine wear at 200K. Another reason it is easier for me to think in terms of 5's, 10's, 15's, 20's, alleviating the "stupid sticker" they put on the window. 3K, are for those that either like to waste money and resources, and somehow get a "warm and fuzzy" everytime they change it. Whatever. Every 5K should get you to 300K on the engine. How many cars have you owned behind that???
Now, I agree with alpha01 in regards to side curtain air bags. However, Knowing what Toyota will do with the NEW Avalon, is like knowing what the stock market will do. Some people really believe they know!! And in regards to HP, what you people don't realize, but keep salivating about (270HP) is that rarely except when passing, are you using that kind of HP. It is the torque, that is much more useable, especially in a car with an automatic transmission, especially people who buy this vehicle. So in regards to the person in the previous forum, if you need a good car, buy the 04 Avalon. IF you don't, then wait it out, but not for the 270HP or side curtain air bags. Alpha01 and others don't really now, nor do they qualify the cost of these items in the newer vehicle, nor do they know the ramifications of a larger displacement on gas mileage. Look at the gas mileage in the Maxima for a comparison.
"Feed the forum"
abfisch
I changed oil once a year on my 1984 Toyota Van. When I sold it after 18 and half years it still needed no additional oil between changes and ran well too. But, I didn't dive it many miles per year (14K was the most miles in a year) and I used synthetic.
jscott13: At 73,000 miles the car most likely has a lot of miles left in it. I know two people that bought Avalons with more miles and both have been very happy with the purchase. As for price you will have to check around to see if that is an okay price for your area. Around here Avalon resale prices have not held as well as some other cars.
moratz- There will be an Avalon for you to purchase when you are looking. Whether it will be an all new model or carryover with improvements (side curtains, etc) is yet to be confirmed. My educated GUESS (ok, abfisch) is that Toyota will do something very similar to what occured with the Corolla and Sienna, which would mean a short run of 2005s, and a mid to late Spring 2005 intro of an all-new 2006 Avalon.
~alpha
And you can bet, that underneath the 3.5L or so, it is going to "share" from the big parts been with the new Camry/Lexus 330. That is how they make money.
"Feed the forum"
abfisch
Let's hope we see a 2005 Avalon in September. Or maybe a 2006 in January. But don't hope for that 270 hp rocket. It just doesn't seem to fit the typical Avalon buyer. Something less is fine with me, but with improved torque output, especially if this car gets heavier. And a 5 speed for good measure.
Toyota has a lot of potential here. They have the name, an all new model and interested people who will buy...if the product is right. Now, all we need are a few "advance" pictures... :-))
This is for all of you out there, that are hemming and horring about whether or not to wait and buy a new Avalon in 2005 with the latest and greatest gizmos and 3.5L 270HP engine, lastest and greatest, yada yada yada.
"Never ever, never, buy a NEW car, its FIRST MODEL year!!!" Not even if it is a Toyota!!!
If you are needing a car, buy the 04, if not than wait, but don't buy for be the first guy on the block.
If you look in CR, and know the model year changes, you can see the first model year is almost always more problematic that the subsequent. For example, look at the reliability data for the first model year of the new Avalon, 2000, and compare it to successive model years.
This should stir up some of you.
"Feed the forum"
abfisch
~alpha
However, I did have to buy a 1997 Camry XLE V6, which was the first year for that design. 80,000 miles later I can say it has been a flawless car. That might change tomorrow, but so far so good.
I don't know how much the guts of the car changed from 1996, so if not much did, then maybe that's why we've had no problems. But it was the first year of that generation of Camrys.
I might or might not consider the first year Avalon. We'll see.
Also bought a 96 Mercedes (when 2 years old) and it was basically good until it hit around 120K miles and then lots of stuff wore out.. Maybe the first owner had lots done??
Normally I avoid first year models but I figured if anyone could get it right it would be Toyota and Mercedes. However, based on the last 5 years worth of new Mercedes models, I would never buy a first year MB again.. But Toyota seems to be a fairly reasonable bet.. I think I'd go for a new Avalon pretty soon after introduction.. Hmm, we'll see when it comes out..!!
The car now has 40K miles and a couple of raspy rattles - one in the driver's door somewhere and one in the dash. My wife is the main driver and could care less. She loves her XLS.
No sludge. Best car we've ever had. I think it's a great road car. I take it on a 330 mile (each way) trip to see my mother in a home. 28+ mpg, 65 mph door to door average speed. I crank up the stereo or listen to a book on tape/CD. Usually make one stop for gas and a burger. Arrive fresh and fit.
When we travel as a family, it's incredible how easily the four of us fit in with all of our stuff. The Avalon is accommodating without being 'big' and has a huge trunk.
The A/C heater controls are indeed abysmal.
Lots of passionate people out there and I know I stir the pot starting something up. With a big smile, I know some of you have bought first year model cars and have been very satisfied. Nevertheless, statistically speaking for CR results the 2000 year Avalon, did have more problems specifically with the suspension, fit and finish, and hardware problems per 1000 vehicles. In addition, for the post about Toyota and the Matrix, you can not resource CR as the Matrix is a fairly new model but just go on that Forum, and look at the earlier posts of all the rattles, squeaks, and storage doors that do not remain closed. Yes, they have fixed them, but those that bought first, had a greater chance of getting a vehicle with a problem. That is just a statistical fact no matter how loyal you are to any corporation.
When you all speak about the A\C system, are you talking about the one in the XLS (auto climate). Because, I don't have any trouble with mine (Manual) dual controls on the XL. Never like autoclimate in any car, and probably never will. They have not worked well in any car that I know about and there is just not enough interior volume in most cars for them to be effective. In addition, when CR tested an Avalon XLS June 03, I think they said too many buttons look the same on the dash. Can anyone of you correlate this?? There are fewer on the XL and I have no problem. MB in the S-class has a 4 zone climate control. Can you imagine the technical problems with that. You can have it. I'll take the manual controls.
"Feed the forum"
abfisch
-Lido
I too am looking to replace my tires ... though quiet is the most important feature for me along with performance. Suggestions?
Thank you.
-Lido
Agree Nomad. Yokohama AVSdb got very good results and are extremely quiet. Michelins and Goodyear IMO are almost always overpriced for a comparable tire. The Falken Ziex 512 (Bid bang for the buck) and the Bridgestone 950 (More sporty) were the last high perf. type of tires rated verygood/excellent in most categories. I am talking wet/dry braking, wet/dry cornering, noise, hydroplanning, etc etc. Just not snow and ice.
In regards to a bra, I had one many years ago on a 280Z, when I was young and it was a PITA. If the poster above wants road/bug protection moderate on the hood and winshield I would get a stonedeflector on the internet. I have one on my car and it works very well although the looks I am not crazy about. Better rock and bug protector could be gotten from a product like "Clear Bra", a transparent, viscous, 3M type coating professinally applied to the front bumper, hood, backs of mirrors, etc. The cost to me was prohibitive for what it was (approx. 300 and up to $1000) but the bug deflector was no more than $125 and took us about 45min. to install in the driveway.
"Feed the forum"
abfisch
I did not find the Dunlop A2's I had on my Honda Civic pre Avalon junk. Actually, at that period of time, they were rated the best by CR and I bought another pair after the first. The handling was excellent as was the wet weather traction and they were priced reasonably. However, as is best for the consumer, competition is fierce in the tire industry as well. I still think there are better tires for the money than most Michelin and Goodyear. I think the major internet sites that post responses are a good resource as well as any unbiased publication (ie: CR). I try and not take tire dealer's advice as profit margin could be a motivation, and they really don't have any idea of side by side comparisons on the same car with the same tire size. Sport enthusiast publications tend to by OK but there is bias toward which stops a millisecond faster or better, and is to focused on performance instead of big bang for the buck and overall performance with comfort.
"Feed the forum"
abfisch
My Cruiser came with Goodyear RSA tires. Definitely don't recommend them, but another brand replacement tires will cost about $170 per tire.
I'd like to try a set of RE 950 tires on my Avalon, but by the time time the Dunlops need replacing there will probably be a better tire available for the same money.
Two or three weeks ago a market research group from Montreal, Canada called my job asking me to take a 30 minute telephone survey. The guy was relentless and asked lots of questions about the different tire brands and how they compared to Michelin. He did not ask if I used their product, he just wanted to know how I felt about certain things such as brand recognition, company reputation, social responsibility, safety issues and price, etc.
I gave Michelin high marks in all categories except for price and I was neutral on safety and quality. So my question to you boardies, why does Michelin have such a high reputation? Is it deserved or all hype?
By the way, he promised to send me $50 for taking the survey but I have not yet received it.
Michelin was one of the first to offer radial tires with the type of construction that made for a smooth ride too.
As a result, they earned a reputation for good handling, long wearing, and nice ride. While others have caught up and in some cases surpassed what Michelin has to offer, the reputation earned years ago has not been tarnished by selling rim protector models like many other tire manufaturers do for OE fitting.
In a sense it is like my Avalon. Not the least expensive and not the best in most things, but the reputation for roomy, good riding, reliable transportation was earned in the mid 90s and Toyota hasn't done anything to hurt this.
Sure there are cars that are faster, handle better, offer more goodies, are just as comfortable, and maybe cost less too, but one knows that Avalon means quiet comfortable reliability, just like Michelin means something similar in tires.
If you don't mind a change in the ride and noise is not a problem, try Toyo. Great tire, but things are different inside the car. Better handling at a price, you might say. I liked them but also traded the XL long before they wore out. Another set..maybe. I am still a Michelin fan for Avalon.
Tires seem to be a major point of discussion on Avalon as we want to firm up the handling a little but not lose the soft ride. Other ideas, anyone...?
And exactly the same observation applies to my wife's Saab 9-3's Pirelli 6000 tires after 21000 miles. I had considered switching wheels with my low-mileage Avalon XLS in order to give the Saab newer tires for our Kentucky winter, but I didn't relish the resulting noise in the Avalon.
I was interested in trying Yokos until the post was made on noise. Anybody else have the same experience with Yokos? My original Michelins are also noiser now than when they were new.
To firm up the handling, is kind of a misnomer. You don't. You change the comfort level. Handling refers to transient response, sway, toe in/out, suspension geometry, etc.
If you are looking for a better Avalon, I have some very fine modifications besides the obvious. A better albeit same size tire/performance tire. The quickest fix to "handling" is through sway bars and bushings. However, that is not possible to my knowledge base as they don't make larger sway bars for the Avalon. But...changing the rubber bushings to PU bushings, will hold the bar better without flexing. It will transmit an increased, albeit small amount of vibration, not sound, tactile vibration. These are relatively easy to put in. They also have now, PU bushings for the lower front suspension arms. These are changeablein the service manual but you have to take the arm down to change it and need a press. Alot of work for little gain,unless you are doing suspension work already. Same results. Less flex, more vibration. This does not alleviate the Avalon from nose diving when hitting the brakes at high speed but creates near neutral steering through the curves, which is definitely notable. You have to grease the bushings or else they will squeak.
Bigger changes come from changing the shocks, which I have posted before. Several people have done this on the Avalon, and you get dramatic results in handling, albeit the ride quality suffers modestly, not bad, just stiffer with much more control as you increase speed. Actually, the control is better and the ride quality gets better too the faster you go, but is reduced at lower speeds.
Those are all I know about. If anyone has any others, please contribute.
Feed the forum.
abfisch
Thanks.
abfisch
I found they sometimes were slow to sense the window needed wiping when first starting the car. Kind of like it was looking for a significant change in the amount of water on the windshield before wiping. I also found that in moderate or heavy rain the wipers ran as if there was no rain sensing (speed did not vary).
In short, I wouldn't pay extra for rain sensing wipers, but it is nice to have.
Thanks for the comments on the rain sensing wipers. 02 model year did not have them,...I think, and I just wanted to know what I was missing. From your above comments, they do not sound like an option, if it were an option, that I would entertain. I know it is another button on the column, but one pays for that in the purchase price somewhere. We also pay for an auto climate control, versus a manual one, which I have had no trouble regulating. So why have auto climate control that doesn't work well, in such a little space as a car period, and pay extra for it. I think the new Mercedes has 4 zone climate control. Freakin waste of money. Would rather have options that make a definitive difference in the driveability of the car, such as superior lighting, handling, better seating, etc.
Speaking of lighting...I would have to assume that the NEW model Avalon '06 or '05 will at least have the option of HID Xenon lights. When I see how the BMW lights project, there are far superior even then PIAA bulbs a medium short distance in front of the car. But CR, in most of there reviews, do not rate many of the HID xenon lights very well for far illumination. They make look "cool" but they don't send light down very far. Hmmmm. And, there really is no industry standard. The best is measurement in lumens or candlepower.
Does anyone have any comments on this subject and in reference to their own experience and the Avalon.
"Feed the forum"
abfisch
I make sure the light is still aimed down from level so the lights do not blind drivers coming the other way. It is very easy to do on a foggy night.
I suspect the manufacturers that install xenon lights have them aimed a bit low to make sure oncoming drivers are not subjected to the intense light from them.
I wonder if manufacturers set the aim based on a full load in the car and trunk (nose high attitude).
Personally, I find auto temp climate control inferior to manual controls. I want to control the temperature of the air coming out of the vents, not the temperature in the car. I can 'trick" the auto system by selecting a very low temp so plain outside air comes in or coldest A/C air comes into the car, but there is no way to moderate hot air into the cabin without using cabin auto temp.
The auto temp system on my old Avalon works quite well and it is just turn of the temp knob that is needed to make it behave like a manual system. Much better than all of the other cars' auto system I have or had.
Need help. What is the sequence of bleeding the brakes in this ABS car???
Is it Rear Right, Rear Left, Front Right, Front Left or
Rear Right, Front Left, Rear Left, and Front Right.
The dealership gave me a "typical stupid dealership answer" and the service manual is nonspecific.
thanks.
abfisch
abfisch
From what I understand this can be alternator (ball bearings) or the serp. belt. How can I diagnose it further ..?
Does not bother me so much, but anyone else have a fix or answer??
abfisch