Without an XM-ready radio already installed, there are two ways to interface the XM unit with the sound system: FM or cassette player. The sound difference between the two is noticeable. The FM sounds more like FM quality while the cassette interface has CD-level sound quality. Yeah, you've got an extra wire sticking out of the cassette tape player, but, in my opinion, the sound quality difference more than makes up for that.
I just read in the High End Luxury thread that Toyota Avalon sales are down for both March and year to date. Here are the relevant figures: March 2004 sales............ 3,827 units
March 2003 sales............ 4,917 units
Percentage decline.......... -22.2%
2004 Q1 sales................ 9,883 units
2003 Q1 sales................ 13,016 units
Percentage decline.......... -25.1%
It appears that their are broad declines in the Corolla, Camry, and Eco sedans but big improvements in trucks and the Lexus division. What gives? is this a broad decline in sedans overall or just the Toyota brands are ready for yet another face lift.
The Avalon is old. 2004 marks the product's FIFTH model year, and hence, it lacks many of the features that have advanced the sedan art in the past few years. Compared to its competitors, the Avalon offers less power, fewer safety features (where are the side curtains? why isnt stability standard at least on the XLS?), and a dated design.
Most vehicles experience downturns in sales as they age, except where incentives are present. Smartly, Toyota has realized that incentives arent a good idea for the Avalon, as its margins are generally quite good (even with fewer sales), with research, development, and production costs having been amortized through the heavy reliance on Camry components and TMMK. The lack of incentives may hurt sales of this aging model, but also helps to keep resale up, something Toyota probably prefers to higher sales figures.
The 2006 Avalon, due next Spring, sure sounds like its going to drive sales through the roof if well priced and executed!
Lido- Regarding your item number 5 of the car wouldn't stay started: I had the same intermittent problem that got consistently worse over a 3 month period on our '97 Avalon. I was convincing myself that it was going to be an expensive repair and was willing it to go away. It finally got so bad that I had a mechanic friend of mine take it to his shop to check the fuel pump/pressure, sensors, etc. It turned out to be a "gunked-up" throttle body. It was a cheap and easy repair (cleaned it). Hope yours is the same.
What do you know about the 06 Avalon ? I asked this about 2 weeks ago and didn't get much clear info on what the differences will be for this redesign. I'm thinking of possibly buying an 04 but not if there are going to be really big improvements by next spring.
I dont know anything for certain, but a new 3.5L V6 engine has pretty much been announced at Toyota's Georgetown plant, for use in the 2006 Avalon. Rumors put this engine at 270hp, but this is unconfirmed. The car is supposed to be a signifanct step up in style, content, and capability.
BUT, all of this......Debut date, styling, features, and other applications of this engine itself remain to be seen. Probably didnt help much, sorry. In all, I would be shocked if there isnt an all-new Avalon by this time next year.
I personally wouldnt buy an 04, unless you can get some kind of super deal, but for me, the current model lacks a major safety feature, and I'd at least wait a few months until the fall, to see if Side Curtains are offered in the expected short-run, 2005 version.
This may be a dumb question, but I can't seem to get a straight answer from the dealers on how often oil should be changed on my new 2004 Avalon. I drive about a 50-50 mix of highway and in-town, in New Jersey weather.
The owner's manual says oil changes every 5,000 miles. The dealer where I usually go for service says 3,000 miles (and vaguely suggests that, though the manual "isn't wrong," the dealership thinks more often is better). And the dealer I bought the car from put a sticker in the car saying the first oil change should be at 1,000 miles.
Fred3, a question similar to yours appears on almost every car discussion site, and has for decades. Assuming your maintenance procedures are the same as my 2003, the actual oil change periods are 7500 miles (the 5000 mile service period applies to demanding conditions). All the oil experts claim that their products perform well, so who really gains by performing more frequent changes. Yes, the dealer! Some of the "tires for life" programs REQUIRE that you pay for these extra and unnecessary oil changes. What connection does an oil change have with tires? There have been a few semi-exotic cars where an early oil change has been mandated during the break-in period, but from an engineering point of view such early oil changes are in fact illogical. Metal fragments are removed by the filter regardless of the age of the oil.
Before I bought my 02 Avalon, I had bought new a 90 Civic EX, and ran it until 236,000 miles when I sold it to a soldier here in NY state. I performed, I more than "they" every 5K for a number of reasons. The biggest support is the testing that CR did with NY city taxis and measuring engine wear at 200K. Another reason it is easier for me to think in terms of 5's, 10's, 15's, 20's, alleviating the "stupid sticker" they put on the window. 3K, are for those that either like to waste money and resources, and somehow get a "warm and fuzzy" everytime they change it. Whatever. Every 5K should get you to 300K on the engine. How many cars have you owned behind that???
Now, I agree with alpha01 in regards to side curtain air bags. However, Knowing what Toyota will do with the NEW Avalon, is like knowing what the stock market will do. Some people really believe they know!! And in regards to HP, what you people don't realize, but keep salivating about (270HP) is that rarely except when passing, are you using that kind of HP. It is the torque, that is much more useable, especially in a car with an automatic transmission, especially people who buy this vehicle. So in regards to the person in the previous forum, if you need a good car, buy the 04 Avalon. IF you don't, then wait it out, but not for the 270HP or side curtain air bags. Alpha01 and others don't really now, nor do they qualify the cost of these items in the newer vehicle, nor do they know the ramifications of a larger displacement on gas mileage. Look at the gas mileage in the Maxima for a comparison.
I promised my grandson that he will get my 2000 Avalon XLS at the end of November when he will be of age to drive. I had planned on buying a 2005 Avalon in November 2004. Some of the posts indicate that there will not be a 2005 model but a 2006 model in the Spring of 2005. This is not clear to me. Where is this information coming from? If I do buy a new Avalon in November what will I be getting? Help!
I am looking at a 2000 Avalon XLS with 73,000 miles. It has a sun-roof and most of the extras commonly associated with an XLS. The car is in very clean condition, interior and exterior. He is asking $13,500. Is this a good price? Should I stay away from buying an Avalon with 73,000 miles?
Some cars now come with sensors that determine when oil should be changed. I agree 5K makes it easy to remember and many cars now call for more than 5K between changes too.
I changed oil once a year on my 1984 Toyota Van. When I sold it after 18 and half years it still needed no additional oil between changes and ran well too. But, I didn't dive it many miles per year (14K was the most miles in a year) and I used synthetic.
jscott13: At 73,000 miles the car most likely has a lot of miles left in it. I know two people that bought Avalons with more miles and both have been very happy with the purchase. As for price you will have to check around to see if that is an okay price for your area. Around here Avalon resale prices have not held as well as some other cars.
abfisch- I did a good job of disclaiming my information. However, one thing is virtually certain. There was an announcement made to V6 Powertrain team at the Georgetown plant regarding the phase out of the 3.0L engine and the introduction of a 3.5L in the 2006 Avalon and Camry. I dont know what that indicates to you, but to me it indicates that the 2006 Avalon will be using a 3.5L V6 in some capacity.
moratz- There will be an Avalon for you to purchase when you are looking. Whether it will be an all new model or carryover with improvements (side curtains, etc) is yet to be confirmed. My educated GUESS (ok, abfisch) is that Toyota will do something very similar to what occured with the Corolla and Sienna, which would mean a short run of 2005s, and a mid to late Spring 2005 intro of an all-new 2006 Avalon.
And you can bet, that underneath the 3.5L or so, it is going to "share" from the big parts been with the new Camry/Lexus 330. That is how they make money.
Several times I have mentioned that my 1999 XL had the oil changed by Toyota at intervals of about 7000 miles. It went 92k before trade-in and never burned a drop between changes. The stuff was a little dark, but not burned. No odor. Never used synthetic. Most driving was suburban or interstate. Why make the dealer rich(er)? Change at 3k with normal driving? Never. Let's hope we see a 2005 Avalon in September. Or maybe a 2006 in January. But don't hope for that 270 hp rocket. It just doesn't seem to fit the typical Avalon buyer. Something less is fine with me, but with improved torque output, especially if this car gets heavier. And a 5 speed for good measure. Toyota has a lot of potential here. They have the name, an all new model and interested people who will buy...if the product is right. Now, all we need are a few "advance" pictures... :-))
This is for all of you out there, that are hemming and horring about whether or not to wait and buy a new Avalon in 2005 with the latest and greatest gizmos and 3.5L 270HP engine, lastest and greatest, yada yada yada.
"Never ever, never, buy a NEW car, its FIRST MODEL year!!!" Not even if it is a Toyota!!!
If you are needing a car, buy the 04, if not than wait, but don't buy for be the first guy on the block.
If you look in CR, and know the model year changes, you can see the first model year is almost always more problematic that the subsequent. For example, look at the reliability data for the first model year of the new Avalon, 2000, and compare it to successive model years.
And my point is, by your ideology, wait until fall, because the 2005 may be the same as the 2004, except with upgrades, like side curtains, 5 speed auto, etc.
I would probably agree with you and I usually avoid first year models.
However, I did have to buy a 1997 Camry XLE V6, which was the first year for that design. 80,000 miles later I can say it has been a flawless car. That might change tomorrow, but so far so good.
I don't know how much the guts of the car changed from 1996, so if not much did, then maybe that's why we've had no problems. But it was the first year of that generation of Camrys.
I might or might not consider the first year Avalon. We'll see.
There have been many instances where buying a first model year car has been a disaster. However, I bought a Matrix just 2 months after being introduced and we now have had it for 15 months and 19,000 miles with nothing wrong other than a little plastic button on one seat belt that broke (keeps the belt metal buckle from sliding down too far). I am not too happy with the gas mileage; especially after reading in that forum about others getting 10 mpg more than we are.. Also bought a 96 Mercedes (when 2 years old) and it was basically good until it hit around 120K miles and then lots of stuff wore out.. Maybe the first owner had lots done?? Normally I avoid first year models but I figured if anyone could get it right it would be Toyota and Mercedes. However, based on the last 5 years worth of new Mercedes models, I would never buy a first year MB again.. But Toyota seems to be a fairly reasonable bet.. I think I'd go for a new Avalon pretty soon after introduction.. Hmm, we'll see when it comes out..!!
My 2000 XLS is just fine thank you. I haven't had to replace suspension parts or oil sludge or anything else for that matter. The heater/AC controls are the worst I have had on any car but Toyota didn't fix that in model year 2, 3, and so on. The rule of 5 did not apply to the 2000 Avalon XLS.
We had several rattles and a squeak in the front suspension going into our driveway. I was initially disappointed. However, Toyota was very responsive, attentive and thorough, replaced the suspension parts, wheel well shields and fixed the rattles.
The car now has 40K miles and a couple of raspy rattles - one in the driver's door somewhere and one in the dash. My wife is the main driver and could care less. She loves her XLS.
No sludge. Best car we've ever had. I think it's a great road car. I take it on a 330 mile (each way) trip to see my mother in a home. 28+ mpg, 65 mph door to door average speed. I crank up the stereo or listen to a book on tape/CD. Usually make one stop for gas and a burger. Arrive fresh and fit.
When we travel as a family, it's incredible how easily the four of us fit in with all of our stuff. The Avalon is accommodating without being 'big' and has a huge trunk.
Lots of passionate people out there and I know I stir the pot starting something up. With a big smile, I know some of you have bought first year model cars and have been very satisfied. Nevertheless, statistically speaking for CR results the 2000 year Avalon, did have more problems specifically with the suspension, fit and finish, and hardware problems per 1000 vehicles. In addition, for the post about Toyota and the Matrix, you can not resource CR as the Matrix is a fairly new model but just go on that Forum, and look at the earlier posts of all the rattles, squeaks, and storage doors that do not remain closed. Yes, they have fixed them, but those that bought first, had a greater chance of getting a vehicle with a problem. That is just a statistical fact no matter how loyal you are to any corporation.
When you all speak about the A\C system, are you talking about the one in the XLS (auto climate). Because, I don't have any trouble with mine (Manual) dual controls on the XL. Never like autoclimate in any car, and probably never will. They have not worked well in any car that I know about and there is just not enough interior volume in most cars for them to be effective. In addition, when CR tested an Avalon XLS June 03, I think they said too many buttons look the same on the dash. Can anyone of you correlate this?? There are fewer on the XL and I have no problem. MB in the S-class has a 4 zone climate control. Can you imagine the technical problems with that. You can have it. I'll take the manual controls.
I need new tires. I never really liked the ones that came on the car (I think they're michelin). I care mostly about long life, secondly about quietness and lastly about performance. Any recommendations? The only ones I've found that are 205/60/r16 are a few different michelins, a goodyear and a yokohama. Is there any wiggle room on the numbers or should I stick to those exact specs? Also, I live in Southern California so I don't need winter (or even rain) tires at all. Thanks. -Lido
In the last post, I didn't mention this, not that it probably matters to this topic, but it's a 2000 XLS (which is why I assume I got the michelins with the car). I've gotten about 50k miles out of these tires which I guess is ok, but I'd be up for more if that's possible/affordable. I can't believe I'm about to spend $100 per tire. Last time I got tires they were less than $50...of course that was for a civic, but still.
I cannot recommend Yokohama AVS db tires enough. Performance oriented, quiet tire. Definitely NOT a snow tire, though. 50k on any set of tires IMO is acceptable! I got 60k out of my Yoko's with neurotic maintenance habits, and a lot of Hwy miles. I will go back to these with my next set. I let a friend sell me Michelins 'cause I got a killer "employee" price... I will pay twice that for the Yoko's this time-it's worth it. You should be able to do the 4 "installed" for around $400. Lido-YES, there is "wiggle" room on the sizes, but maintain the correct aspect ratio!!! This is very important. My recommendation is "original" size. There are several pro's and con's with wider or narrower, but these tradeoffs are less obvious to more conservative drivers. Wider tires(better dry traction) will have a LOWER aspect ratio and narrower tires(better WET traction) a HIGHER aspect ratio. ie) You can go, on a 6"-8" wide rim: 215/55-16 ..maintains radius within .1 inch. Or, on a 5 1/2"-6" wide rim: 185/65-16 ..also, within .1 inch. ...and, thus your speedo will be correct. -nomad56-
Agree Nomad. Yokohama AVSdb got very good results and are extremely quiet. Michelins and Goodyear IMO are almost always overpriced for a comparable tire. The Falken Ziex 512 (Bid bang for the buck) and the Bridgestone 950 (More sporty) were the last high perf. type of tires rated verygood/excellent in most categories. I am talking wet/dry braking, wet/dry cornering, noise, hydroplanning, etc etc. Just not snow and ice.
In regards to a bra, I had one many years ago on a 280Z, when I was young and it was a PITA. If the poster above wants road/bug protection moderate on the hood and winshield I would get a stonedeflector on the internet. I have one on my car and it works very well although the looks I am not crazy about. Better rock and bug protector could be gotten from a product like "Clear Bra", a transparent, viscous, 3M type coating professinally applied to the front bumper, hood, backs of mirrors, etc. The cost to me was prohibitive for what it was (approx. 300 and up to $1000) but the bug deflector was no more than $125 and took us about 45min. to install in the driveway.
To jscott13: Just put on two new 16" Michelin MXV's and will replace the other two at next rotation. This is a factory tire as we all know. You are all correct in that they are expensive. But the ride is good and the mileage acceptable. Most Dunlop is junk, from my prior experience. Never tried Yoko's but my tire man sells plenty and recommends them. Let us know....
I did not find the Dunlop A2's I had on my Honda Civic pre Avalon junk. Actually, at that period of time, they were rated the best by CR and I bought another pair after the first. The handling was excellent as was the wet weather traction and they were priced reasonably. However, as is best for the consumer, competition is fierce in the tire industry as well. I still think there are better tires for the money than most Michelin and Goodyear. I think the major internet sites that post responses are a good resource as well as any unbiased publication (ie: CR). I try and not take tire dealer's advice as profit margin could be a motivation, and they really don't have any idea of side by side comparisons on the same car with the same tire size. Sport enthusiast publications tend to by OK but there is bias toward which stops a millisecond faster or better, and is to focused on performance instead of big bang for the buck and overall performance with comfort.
Maybe $100 per tire for an Avalon is a lot. The last time I put tires on my Avalon the Dunlop SP-4000's cost about $65 each. First time I have retired with the same tire as OE. Nice ride, quiet, and they handle well.
My Cruiser came with Goodyear RSA tires. Definitely don't recommend them, but another brand replacement tires will cost about $170 per tire.
I'd like to try a set of RE 950 tires on my Avalon, but by the time time the Dunlops need replacing there will probably be a better tire available for the same money.
Did anyone of you participated Michilen's so called "international" survey?
Two or three weeks ago a market research group from Montreal, Canada called my job asking me to take a 30 minute telephone survey. The guy was relentless and asked lots of questions about the different tire brands and how they compared to Michelin. He did not ask if I used their product, he just wanted to know how I felt about certain things such as brand recognition, company reputation, social responsibility, safety issues and price, etc.
I gave Michelin high marks in all categories except for price and I was neutral on safety and quality. So my question to you boardies, why does Michelin have such a high reputation? Is it deserved or all hype?
By the way, he promised to send me $50 for taking the survey but I have not yet received it.
Sorry HOST, I think this and the other tire only posts belong somewhere else. However, to answer post 2672, one needs to go way back to the late 1960s. I remember Michelin was the first tire manufacturer to offer radial tires in many sizes and make them available through a mass retailer (Sears). These tires were a giant leap up from the bias ply tires commonly in use back then and significantly better than the bias belted tires that were just being introduced about that time.
Michelin was one of the first to offer radial tires with the type of construction that made for a smooth ride too.
As a result, they earned a reputation for good handling, long wearing, and nice ride. While others have caught up and in some cases surpassed what Michelin has to offer, the reputation earned years ago has not been tarnished by selling rim protector models like many other tire manufaturers do for OE fitting.
In a sense it is like my Avalon. Not the least expensive and not the best in most things, but the reputation for roomy, good riding, reliable transportation was earned in the mid 90s and Toyota hasn't done anything to hurt this.
Sure there are cars that are faster, handle better, offer more goodies, are just as comfortable, and maybe cost less too, but one knows that Avalon means quiet comfortable reliability, just like Michelin means something similar in tires.
I had a set of Yoko AVS db tires 3 years ago and for the first 6000 miles they were the quietest tires I've ever owned. Then they started to get noisy (like really knobby snow tires) and by 12,000 were so bad I went back to the dealer and with just driving the car across their parking lot, the tech admitted something was wrong. Yokohama ended up giving me a prorated trade for their Avid V4 tires and they have been very quiet up to approx. 25,000 but are now also sounding and feeling like snow tires too. I don't think I'll ever buy Yokohama tires again even though they have been great in dry or wet conditions and passable in snow (but not recommended!).
Your experience with Yokos is similar to mine with Goodyear RSA tires. Quiet at first, then gradually got noisy. By the time the tread was half worn it sounded like old fashion snow tires on a smooth road. Quite loud now, with about 40% of tread left. They ride well and handle okay, but the noise is terrible.
Interesting to hear about the noise problem with the Yoko's as my tire man likes them. Will ask him about it..and his profit margins. Even the Dunlop's I had on the '99 XL were quiet 'till they wore out. My earlier post reference to that tire as "junk" was due to lack of traction (after 25k miles) in wet weather. It was scary sometimes in the interstate.
If you don't mind a change in the ride and noise is not a problem, try Toyo. Great tire, but things are different inside the car. Better handling at a price, you might say. I liked them but also traded the XL long before they wore out. Another set..maybe. I am still a Michelin fan for Avalon.
Tires seem to be a major point of discussion on Avalon as we want to firm up the handling a little but not lose the soft ride. Other ideas, anyone...?
"Your experience with Yokos is similar to mine with Goodyear RSA tires. Quiet at first, then gradually got noisy. By the time the tread was half worn it sounded like old fashion snow tires on a smooth road. Quite loud now, with about 40% of tread left. They ride well and handle okay, but the noise is terrible."
And exactly the same observation applies to my wife's Saab 9-3's Pirelli 6000 tires after 21000 miles. I had considered switching wheels with my low-mileage Avalon XLS in order to give the Saab newer tires for our Kentucky winter, but I didn't relish the resulting noise in the Avalon.
Because I'm in the market right now for new shoes for a 2000 XLS. OEMs were Michelin MX4+ 205/60/16s. At Costco a Michelin 205 60HR/16 goes for $135 (this is in California - in mid June they will have a deal for $60 off on a set of 4).
I was interested in trying Yokos until the post was made on noise. Anybody else have the same experience with Yokos? My original Michelins are also noiser now than when they were new.
To firm up the handling, is kind of a misnomer. You don't. You change the comfort level. Handling refers to transient response, sway, toe in/out, suspension geometry, etc.
If you are looking for a better Avalon, I have some very fine modifications besides the obvious. A better albeit same size tire/performance tire. The quickest fix to "handling" is through sway bars and bushings. However, that is not possible to my knowledge base as they don't make larger sway bars for the Avalon. But...changing the rubber bushings to PU bushings, will hold the bar better without flexing. It will transmit an increased, albeit small amount of vibration, not sound, tactile vibration. These are relatively easy to put in. They also have now, PU bushings for the lower front suspension arms. These are changeablein the service manual but you have to take the arm down to change it and need a press. Alot of work for little gain,unless you are doing suspension work already. Same results. Less flex, more vibration. This does not alleviate the Avalon from nose diving when hitting the brakes at high speed but creates near neutral steering through the curves, which is definitely notable. You have to grease the bushings or else they will squeak.
Bigger changes come from changing the shocks, which I have posted before. Several people have done this on the Avalon, and you get dramatic results in handling, albeit the ride quality suffers modestly, not bad, just stiffer with much more control as you increase speed. Actually, the control is better and the ride quality gets better too the faster you go, but is reduced at lower speeds.
Those are all I know about. If anyone has any others, please contribute.
Can anyone in the Forum commment on the use, utility, and function of the NEW rain sensing wipers. Do they work well?? Are there any problems??? Repairs????
Had two cars with rain sensing wipers. When they worked it was very nice. The speed varied as needed and made it very nice when the rain wasn't more than a sprinkle. This is the kind of rain where you don't need wipers at a stop light, but needed then on slow or intermittent when driving, then get a burst of rain or the car in front runs through a large puddle and splashes your windshield.
I found they sometimes were slow to sense the window needed wiping when first starting the car. Kind of like it was looking for a significant change in the amount of water on the windshield before wiping. I also found that in moderate or heavy rain the wipers ran as if there was no rain sensing (speed did not vary).
In short, I wouldn't pay extra for rain sensing wipers, but it is nice to have.
I would mirror exactly the comments made in Post 2681, other than to point out that rain-sensing is merely one additional setting on the wiper control. If you don't like how that setting works, you can simply operate the wiper in the other standard modes. I can't remember if rain-sensing was an option on my 2003 XLS or standard.
The Yoko "noise" was experienced by many drivers on AVS db series 1 tires. The tread reveal after approx 15k was prone to noise. Yoko revised this in the AVS db S2, which is their current offering. I did NOT experience noise in my Yoko's. This (I am guessing here!) is possibly due to the fact that I run my tires a little hard-better mileage with a lot of freeway miles. My wear patterns lean slightly toward over-inflation. NO tire will do everything. I like 1-performance(softer compound-stiff sidewall) 2-noise 3-comfort 4-treadlife.
Thanks for the comments on the rain sensing wipers. 02 model year did not have them,...I think, and I just wanted to know what I was missing. From your above comments, they do not sound like an option, if it were an option, that I would entertain. I know it is another button on the column, but one pays for that in the purchase price somewhere. We also pay for an auto climate control, versus a manual one, which I have had no trouble regulating. So why have auto climate control that doesn't work well, in such a little space as a car period, and pay extra for it. I think the new Mercedes has 4 zone climate control. Freakin waste of money. Would rather have options that make a definitive difference in the driveability of the car, such as superior lighting, handling, better seating, etc.
Speaking of lighting...I would have to assume that the NEW model Avalon '06 or '05 will at least have the option of HID Xenon lights. When I see how the BMW lights project, there are far superior even then PIAA bulbs a medium short distance in front of the car. But CR, in most of there reviews, do not rate many of the HID xenon lights very well for far illumination. They make look "cool" but they don't send light down very far. Hmmmm. And, there really is no industry standard. The best is measurement in lumens or candlepower.
Does anyone have any comments on this subject and in reference to their own experience and the Avalon.
I've found I needed to raise the headlight aim on all of the cars I have purchased during the last 8 years. Even before that, I had to raise the aim on a number of cars in order to get good low beam distance.
I make sure the light is still aimed down from level so the lights do not blind drivers coming the other way. It is very easy to do on a foggy night.
I suspect the manufacturers that install xenon lights have them aimed a bit low to make sure oncoming drivers are not subjected to the intense light from them.
I wonder if manufacturers set the aim based on a full load in the car and trunk (nose high attitude).
Personally, I find auto temp climate control inferior to manual controls. I want to control the temperature of the air coming out of the vents, not the temperature in the car. I can 'trick" the auto system by selecting a very low temp so plain outside air comes in or coldest A/C air comes into the car, but there is no way to moderate hot air into the cabin without using cabin auto temp.
The auto temp system on my old Avalon works quite well and it is just turn of the temp knob that is needed to make it behave like a manual system. Much better than all of the other cars' auto system I have or had.
The service manual is very specific, rr,lr,rf,lf. There's even a "NOTICE": page BR-4 of service manual.. Bleed air of rear brake first. If front is bled first, the rear brake air cannot be completely bled.
Comments
March 2004 sales............ 3,827 units
March 2003 sales............ 4,917 units
Percentage decline.......... -22.2%
2004 Q1 sales................ 9,883 units
2003 Q1 sales................ 13,016 units
Percentage decline.......... -25.1%
It appears that their are broad declines in the Corolla, Camry, and Eco sedans but big improvements in trucks and the Lexus division. What gives? is this a broad decline in sedans overall or just the Toyota brands are ready for yet another face lift.
Most vehicles experience downturns in sales as they age, except where incentives are present. Smartly, Toyota has realized that incentives arent a good idea for the Avalon, as its margins are generally quite good (even with fewer sales), with research, development, and production costs having been amortized through the heavy reliance on Camry components and TMMK. The lack of incentives may hurt sales of this aging model, but also helps to keep resale up, something Toyota probably prefers to higher sales figures.
The 2006 Avalon, due next Spring, sure sounds like its going to drive sales through the roof if well priced and executed!
my .02.
~alpha
What do you know about the 06 Avalon ? I asked this about 2 weeks ago and didn't get much clear info on what the differences will be for this redesign. I'm thinking of possibly buying an 04 but not if there are going to be really big improvements by next spring.
BUT, all of this......Debut date, styling, features, and other applications of this engine itself remain to be seen. Probably didnt help much, sorry. In all, I would be shocked if there isnt an all-new Avalon by this time next year.
I personally wouldnt buy an 04, unless you can get some kind of super deal, but for me, the current model lacks a major safety feature, and I'd at least wait a few months until the fall, to see if Side Curtains are offered in the expected short-run, 2005 version.
~alpha
The owner's manual says oil changes every 5,000 miles. The dealer where I usually go for service says 3,000 miles (and vaguely suggests that, though the manual "isn't wrong," the dealership thinks more often is better). And the dealer I bought the car from put a sticker in the car saying the first oil change should be at 1,000 miles.
What do the helpful folks in this forum think?
Thanks!
Before I bought my 02 Avalon, I had bought new a 90 Civic EX, and ran it until 236,000 miles when I sold it to a soldier here in NY state. I performed, I more than "they" every 5K for a number of reasons. The biggest support is the testing that CR did with NY city taxis and measuring engine wear at 200K. Another reason it is easier for me to think in terms of 5's, 10's, 15's, 20's, alleviating the "stupid sticker" they put on the window. 3K, are for those that either like to waste money and resources, and somehow get a "warm and fuzzy" everytime they change it. Whatever. Every 5K should get you to 300K on the engine. How many cars have you owned behind that???
Now, I agree with alpha01 in regards to side curtain air bags. However, Knowing what Toyota will do with the NEW Avalon, is like knowing what the stock market will do. Some people really believe they know!! And in regards to HP, what you people don't realize, but keep salivating about (270HP) is that rarely except when passing, are you using that kind of HP. It is the torque, that is much more useable, especially in a car with an automatic transmission, especially people who buy this vehicle. So in regards to the person in the previous forum, if you need a good car, buy the 04 Avalon. IF you don't, then wait it out, but not for the 270HP or side curtain air bags. Alpha01 and others don't really now, nor do they qualify the cost of these items in the newer vehicle, nor do they know the ramifications of a larger displacement on gas mileage. Look at the gas mileage in the Maxima for a comparison.
"Feed the forum"
abfisch
I changed oil once a year on my 1984 Toyota Van. When I sold it after 18 and half years it still needed no additional oil between changes and ran well too. But, I didn't dive it many miles per year (14K was the most miles in a year) and I used synthetic.
jscott13: At 73,000 miles the car most likely has a lot of miles left in it. I know two people that bought Avalons with more miles and both have been very happy with the purchase. As for price you will have to check around to see if that is an okay price for your area. Around here Avalon resale prices have not held as well as some other cars.
moratz- There will be an Avalon for you to purchase when you are looking. Whether it will be an all new model or carryover with improvements (side curtains, etc) is yet to be confirmed. My educated GUESS (ok, abfisch) is that Toyota will do something very similar to what occured with the Corolla and Sienna, which would mean a short run of 2005s, and a mid to late Spring 2005 intro of an all-new 2006 Avalon.
~alpha
And you can bet, that underneath the 3.5L or so, it is going to "share" from the big parts been with the new Camry/Lexus 330. That is how they make money.
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abfisch
Let's hope we see a 2005 Avalon in September. Or maybe a 2006 in January. But don't hope for that 270 hp rocket. It just doesn't seem to fit the typical Avalon buyer. Something less is fine with me, but with improved torque output, especially if this car gets heavier. And a 5 speed for good measure.
Toyota has a lot of potential here. They have the name, an all new model and interested people who will buy...if the product is right. Now, all we need are a few "advance" pictures... :-))
This is for all of you out there, that are hemming and horring about whether or not to wait and buy a new Avalon in 2005 with the latest and greatest gizmos and 3.5L 270HP engine, lastest and greatest, yada yada yada.
"Never ever, never, buy a NEW car, its FIRST MODEL year!!!" Not even if it is a Toyota!!!
If you are needing a car, buy the 04, if not than wait, but don't buy for be the first guy on the block.
If you look in CR, and know the model year changes, you can see the first model year is almost always more problematic that the subsequent. For example, look at the reliability data for the first model year of the new Avalon, 2000, and compare it to successive model years.
This should stir up some of you.
"Feed the forum"
abfisch
~alpha
However, I did have to buy a 1997 Camry XLE V6, which was the first year for that design. 80,000 miles later I can say it has been a flawless car. That might change tomorrow, but so far so good.
I don't know how much the guts of the car changed from 1996, so if not much did, then maybe that's why we've had no problems. But it was the first year of that generation of Camrys.
I might or might not consider the first year Avalon. We'll see.
Also bought a 96 Mercedes (when 2 years old) and it was basically good until it hit around 120K miles and then lots of stuff wore out.. Maybe the first owner had lots done??
Normally I avoid first year models but I figured if anyone could get it right it would be Toyota and Mercedes. However, based on the last 5 years worth of new Mercedes models, I would never buy a first year MB again.. But Toyota seems to be a fairly reasonable bet.. I think I'd go for a new Avalon pretty soon after introduction.. Hmm, we'll see when it comes out..!!
The car now has 40K miles and a couple of raspy rattles - one in the driver's door somewhere and one in the dash. My wife is the main driver and could care less. She loves her XLS.
No sludge. Best car we've ever had. I think it's a great road car. I take it on a 330 mile (each way) trip to see my mother in a home. 28+ mpg, 65 mph door to door average speed. I crank up the stereo or listen to a book on tape/CD. Usually make one stop for gas and a burger. Arrive fresh and fit.
When we travel as a family, it's incredible how easily the four of us fit in with all of our stuff. The Avalon is accommodating without being 'big' and has a huge trunk.
The A/C heater controls are indeed abysmal.
Lots of passionate people out there and I know I stir the pot starting something up. With a big smile, I know some of you have bought first year model cars and have been very satisfied. Nevertheless, statistically speaking for CR results the 2000 year Avalon, did have more problems specifically with the suspension, fit and finish, and hardware problems per 1000 vehicles. In addition, for the post about Toyota and the Matrix, you can not resource CR as the Matrix is a fairly new model but just go on that Forum, and look at the earlier posts of all the rattles, squeaks, and storage doors that do not remain closed. Yes, they have fixed them, but those that bought first, had a greater chance of getting a vehicle with a problem. That is just a statistical fact no matter how loyal you are to any corporation.
When you all speak about the A\C system, are you talking about the one in the XLS (auto climate). Because, I don't have any trouble with mine (Manual) dual controls on the XL. Never like autoclimate in any car, and probably never will. They have not worked well in any car that I know about and there is just not enough interior volume in most cars for them to be effective. In addition, when CR tested an Avalon XLS June 03, I think they said too many buttons look the same on the dash. Can anyone of you correlate this?? There are fewer on the XL and I have no problem. MB in the S-class has a 4 zone climate control. Can you imagine the technical problems with that. You can have it. I'll take the manual controls.
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abfisch
-Lido
I too am looking to replace my tires ... though quiet is the most important feature for me along with performance. Suggestions?
Thank you.
-Lido
Agree Nomad. Yokohama AVSdb got very good results and are extremely quiet. Michelins and Goodyear IMO are almost always overpriced for a comparable tire. The Falken Ziex 512 (Bid bang for the buck) and the Bridgestone 950 (More sporty) were the last high perf. type of tires rated verygood/excellent in most categories. I am talking wet/dry braking, wet/dry cornering, noise, hydroplanning, etc etc. Just not snow and ice.
In regards to a bra, I had one many years ago on a 280Z, when I was young and it was a PITA. If the poster above wants road/bug protection moderate on the hood and winshield I would get a stonedeflector on the internet. I have one on my car and it works very well although the looks I am not crazy about. Better rock and bug protector could be gotten from a product like "Clear Bra", a transparent, viscous, 3M type coating professinally applied to the front bumper, hood, backs of mirrors, etc. The cost to me was prohibitive for what it was (approx. 300 and up to $1000) but the bug deflector was no more than $125 and took us about 45min. to install in the driveway.
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abfisch
I did not find the Dunlop A2's I had on my Honda Civic pre Avalon junk. Actually, at that period of time, they were rated the best by CR and I bought another pair after the first. The handling was excellent as was the wet weather traction and they were priced reasonably. However, as is best for the consumer, competition is fierce in the tire industry as well. I still think there are better tires for the money than most Michelin and Goodyear. I think the major internet sites that post responses are a good resource as well as any unbiased publication (ie: CR). I try and not take tire dealer's advice as profit margin could be a motivation, and they really don't have any idea of side by side comparisons on the same car with the same tire size. Sport enthusiast publications tend to by OK but there is bias toward which stops a millisecond faster or better, and is to focused on performance instead of big bang for the buck and overall performance with comfort.
"Feed the forum"
abfisch
My Cruiser came with Goodyear RSA tires. Definitely don't recommend them, but another brand replacement tires will cost about $170 per tire.
I'd like to try a set of RE 950 tires on my Avalon, but by the time time the Dunlops need replacing there will probably be a better tire available for the same money.
Two or three weeks ago a market research group from Montreal, Canada called my job asking me to take a 30 minute telephone survey. The guy was relentless and asked lots of questions about the different tire brands and how they compared to Michelin. He did not ask if I used their product, he just wanted to know how I felt about certain things such as brand recognition, company reputation, social responsibility, safety issues and price, etc.
I gave Michelin high marks in all categories except for price and I was neutral on safety and quality. So my question to you boardies, why does Michelin have such a high reputation? Is it deserved or all hype?
By the way, he promised to send me $50 for taking the survey but I have not yet received it.
Michelin was one of the first to offer radial tires with the type of construction that made for a smooth ride too.
As a result, they earned a reputation for good handling, long wearing, and nice ride. While others have caught up and in some cases surpassed what Michelin has to offer, the reputation earned years ago has not been tarnished by selling rim protector models like many other tire manufaturers do for OE fitting.
In a sense it is like my Avalon. Not the least expensive and not the best in most things, but the reputation for roomy, good riding, reliable transportation was earned in the mid 90s and Toyota hasn't done anything to hurt this.
Sure there are cars that are faster, handle better, offer more goodies, are just as comfortable, and maybe cost less too, but one knows that Avalon means quiet comfortable reliability, just like Michelin means something similar in tires.
If you don't mind a change in the ride and noise is not a problem, try Toyo. Great tire, but things are different inside the car. Better handling at a price, you might say. I liked them but also traded the XL long before they wore out. Another set..maybe. I am still a Michelin fan for Avalon.
Tires seem to be a major point of discussion on Avalon as we want to firm up the handling a little but not lose the soft ride. Other ideas, anyone...?
And exactly the same observation applies to my wife's Saab 9-3's Pirelli 6000 tires after 21000 miles. I had considered switching wheels with my low-mileage Avalon XLS in order to give the Saab newer tires for our Kentucky winter, but I didn't relish the resulting noise in the Avalon.
I was interested in trying Yokos until the post was made on noise. Anybody else have the same experience with Yokos? My original Michelins are also noiser now than when they were new.
To firm up the handling, is kind of a misnomer. You don't. You change the comfort level. Handling refers to transient response, sway, toe in/out, suspension geometry, etc.
If you are looking for a better Avalon, I have some very fine modifications besides the obvious. A better albeit same size tire/performance tire. The quickest fix to "handling" is through sway bars and bushings. However, that is not possible to my knowledge base as they don't make larger sway bars for the Avalon. But...changing the rubber bushings to PU bushings, will hold the bar better without flexing. It will transmit an increased, albeit small amount of vibration, not sound, tactile vibration. These are relatively easy to put in. They also have now, PU bushings for the lower front suspension arms. These are changeablein the service manual but you have to take the arm down to change it and need a press. Alot of work for little gain,unless you are doing suspension work already. Same results. Less flex, more vibration. This does not alleviate the Avalon from nose diving when hitting the brakes at high speed but creates near neutral steering through the curves, which is definitely notable. You have to grease the bushings or else they will squeak.
Bigger changes come from changing the shocks, which I have posted before. Several people have done this on the Avalon, and you get dramatic results in handling, albeit the ride quality suffers modestly, not bad, just stiffer with much more control as you increase speed. Actually, the control is better and the ride quality gets better too the faster you go, but is reduced at lower speeds.
Those are all I know about. If anyone has any others, please contribute.
Feed the forum.
abfisch
Thanks.
abfisch
I found they sometimes were slow to sense the window needed wiping when first starting the car. Kind of like it was looking for a significant change in the amount of water on the windshield before wiping. I also found that in moderate or heavy rain the wipers ran as if there was no rain sensing (speed did not vary).
In short, I wouldn't pay extra for rain sensing wipers, but it is nice to have.
Thanks for the comments on the rain sensing wipers. 02 model year did not have them,...I think, and I just wanted to know what I was missing. From your above comments, they do not sound like an option, if it were an option, that I would entertain. I know it is another button on the column, but one pays for that in the purchase price somewhere. We also pay for an auto climate control, versus a manual one, which I have had no trouble regulating. So why have auto climate control that doesn't work well, in such a little space as a car period, and pay extra for it. I think the new Mercedes has 4 zone climate control. Freakin waste of money. Would rather have options that make a definitive difference in the driveability of the car, such as superior lighting, handling, better seating, etc.
Speaking of lighting...I would have to assume that the NEW model Avalon '06 or '05 will at least have the option of HID Xenon lights. When I see how the BMW lights project, there are far superior even then PIAA bulbs a medium short distance in front of the car. But CR, in most of there reviews, do not rate many of the HID xenon lights very well for far illumination. They make look "cool" but they don't send light down very far. Hmmmm. And, there really is no industry standard. The best is measurement in lumens or candlepower.
Does anyone have any comments on this subject and in reference to their own experience and the Avalon.
"Feed the forum"
abfisch
I make sure the light is still aimed down from level so the lights do not blind drivers coming the other way. It is very easy to do on a foggy night.
I suspect the manufacturers that install xenon lights have them aimed a bit low to make sure oncoming drivers are not subjected to the intense light from them.
I wonder if manufacturers set the aim based on a full load in the car and trunk (nose high attitude).
Personally, I find auto temp climate control inferior to manual controls. I want to control the temperature of the air coming out of the vents, not the temperature in the car. I can 'trick" the auto system by selecting a very low temp so plain outside air comes in or coldest A/C air comes into the car, but there is no way to moderate hot air into the cabin without using cabin auto temp.
The auto temp system on my old Avalon works quite well and it is just turn of the temp knob that is needed to make it behave like a manual system. Much better than all of the other cars' auto system I have or had.
Need help. What is the sequence of bleeding the brakes in this ABS car???
Is it Rear Right, Rear Left, Front Right, Front Left or
Rear Right, Front Left, Rear Left, and Front Right.
The dealership gave me a "typical stupid dealership answer" and the service manual is nonspecific.
thanks.
abfisch
abfisch
From what I understand this can be alternator (ball bearings) or the serp. belt. How can I diagnose it further ..?
Does not bother me so much, but anyone else have a fix or answer??
abfisch