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Comments
I can only talk about an '03 XLS with 11K miles. Presumably the tires and suspension components are working optimally, unlike older cars or previous designs. I have an eclectic experience in cars, having owned or leased a Maserati, a Buick Regal GS, a Saab 9-3, a Chevy Caprice and a Mercury Mystique (probably one of the best handling cars I have ever driven). Except in very large cars I usually avoid the "GT suspension" with its trick shocks, tires and bushings, because the resulting ride -- especially on Northern roads -- is just not acceptable, and the improved handling is a poor tradeoff.
Our unmodified Avalon is better than average in terms of its shock valving and sway control. The amount of "dive" and "squat" is completely acceptable, and better than our '02 Saab. In the city and on the highway, on good surfaces and rough, the control on wallow and level ride is outstanding. Our opinion might change after another 20,000 miles, but the performance is excellent at this stage. Similarly, tire performance from our OEM Michelins is exactly what I expected, and only on very tight cloverleaf ramps do they protest the forces being applied to their sidewalls.
One glaring weakness is the brakes. In city and regular highway driving, brake performance is gentle, progressive and effective. In high speed and panic stops the brakes are almost ineffectual. At least the car tracks straight ahead in a panic stop, and the ABS doesn't cut in until you mash the pedal down, but the stopping distances are long, and there is a complete lack of confidence felt by the driver. The soft friction material and/or the design simply fail to do the job.
So I do suggest that everyone not rush out and "upgrade" their Avalon. It really is a matter of taste or of a need to replace aging components. But I also think I am going to take Abfisch' suggestion and do something about those brakes. Our lives are just too important!
I am more concerned about a quiet ride ... most of the tires I have bought gave me a quiet ride for about 10,000 miles. What about the noise level of the Falken Ziex 512?
Well, well, well. Taste, I am not sure qualifies, in an objective decision matrix while comparing attributes and deficiencies in automobiles. At least from an objective sense, I have never seen it. While I respect all of your comments above, why then, comment #2976, and again I respect your comments, would you consider brake replacement warranted, and not damper replacement. Let me just give you a little inside track, if you will, that, believe it or not, they kinda work hand in hand. Let me explain. One of the CONS of the Avalon, is that, in JAN 04 testing by CR, the darn thing dipped too much, especially during hard braking, 55MPH or above, lets say. What happens to the front brakes, when the car dives?????? The front brakes have a increased load of weight and the rears have a decrease load of weight. No matter, what type of brake components you use, and I have slotted/drilled rotors on the fronts and slotted on the back with premium pads, the front rotors are getting abused if the car is not controlled when braking. So, while I hear what you are saying about a NON MODIFIED Avalon, please remember that any car is ONLY as good as its weakest part. Additionally,this is the same strut,look up the part# yourself if you don't believe me, that is in the Camry and Lexus 300 uses. So using the excuse that they reserve a better strut for the Lexus line just doesn't cut. You would have to really really be sold and I am not that dumb, stupid, but not that dumb. To add insult to injury, if you will, the Avalon, is heavier, by about I believe 250lbs. Not alot, but enough with all these factors to make a difference. Then, you factor in different driving situations and applications, and there you go. If you don't drive on the highway or rural interstate alot, leave it alone. If you do, and are unhappy with the stability, and driveability of the car, but like the car, there are PREMIUM parts, not modifications, premium parts, that surpass "OEM TOYOTA Quality" believe it or not, that make this automobile, more stabile, better at emergency handling, better wet and dry braking, and better cornering. Albeit, the ride quality changes, but the trade off to some is well worth it.
Now, I purposely left the windows open while I went up NORTH this weekend, and and listen with my ears, not with an objective decibel meter, to see if the new Falken's Ziex 512 made more noise than the OEM's. I have to tell you that I think they do, especially at lower speeeds, not higher speeds where the wind noise and radio tend to compete. It is not offensive, but I have to be honest, and they make more noise. They also picked up every single piece of pebble and dirt particle on the road. I never heard so many little pieces hitting inside my wheel well before, so they are sticky. Ofcourse, there cornering ability is far superior and there wet weather tracking is also superior. I had them set to 32PSI but brought them back down to 31PSI, as that is about as much as my 45 year old back can handle. I have the 15" wheels on the XL.
I hope this helps most of you decide for or against whatever it is you want to achieve. The application is most important in the decision of changing things.
If I wanted a quieter tire, I think the Turanza LS-H or the Yokohama AVSdb2 would be high on the list to get. But both are at least around the $100 mark.
"Feed the forum"
abfisch
Other members have also posted their satisfaction with the Avalon suspension.
You obviously like to promote the virtues of after-market struts. My position is -- if you don't need them, don't go to unnecessary expense in installing them. Wait until the current struts are weak, but recognize that the characteristics of after-market shocks may not be to your liking. Some idols have clay feet!
So, with the strut situation fully evaluated I must get on with the necessary brake modifications.
Failure to Toyota is a leak. Shock/strut engineers will tell you that performance deteriorates as the struts wear. When a leak is apparent they are no longer functioning at all.
In my opinion, the OE shocks are undersized for the car and wear out quickly for that reason. Initlally this results in a plush ride.
The CR Jan 04 issue is the one I believe where the last Avalon was evaluated. The car has many PROS. Of the CONS, excessive front nose dive under braking was one of them along with "secure but not nimble handling". The car that was tested was I believe a 2004 Avalon XLS.
You can deduce your own opinions from this data.
IMO, while vehicle stability control may help some, it in no way compensates for under dampened struts, regardless of manufacturer. Toyota does not make their own struts, but contracts out.
Use this data for your own applications.
Rainy today. Falken Ziex 512 tires were in a positive sense remarkable in the rain although they are new. We will see when I have 15-20K on them.
abfisch
Undersized, or underdampened in relation to vehicle weight and suspension geometry???
Application including driving style/conditions are very important when choosing parts. Perhaps, Toyota will come out, as they now do with their Lexus 430 and as BMW has done for years with a "sport suspension" option, for those that do more highway/rual/higher speed driving to make everyone happy. That would be a good thing.
abfisch
.......and the conclusion is that the Car and Driver test car exhibited nose-diving when braked from high speed.
I'm not clear what the relevance is. My low-mileage car does NOT significantly nose-dive. The Car and Driver vehicle may have been white, mine is red. Perhaps it had the navigation system, mine does not. I really don't give a hoot what the Car and Driver vehicle did or didn't do (other than as a legitimate frame of reference) since Car and Driver were not testing my car.
There is a fine line, Abfisch, between having a (humble) opinion and being opinionated. This "one size fits all" approach to the Avalon does an injustice to the car and to your fellow owners on this site, whose experiences, needs and aspirations may not be in lockstep with yours.
Continuing steadfastly on the logical approach for a non-diving Avalon, I have ordered a set of TRD (Toyota Racing Division) brake pads for the front wheels. These are a harder, more heat-resistant pad. The cost was around $65. I imagine labor for the simple installation is about the same amount at my local garage. I am not modifying the disks themselves (ventilated, slotted, etc) because I do little mountain driving, towing or high-speed driving. I am only interested in dealing with occasional panic stops, so overheating the disks is not a likely scenario. It should be pointed out that TRD does not offer pads for the rear disks, confirming that weight transfer during braking results in most of the serious stopping being done at the front.
Unfortunately, it may be several weeks before I can report on the results. The pads require up to 1000 miles to be bedded in, and an upcoming hospitalization and convalescence (me, not the Avalon) will delay the process even further. Sometime in the next 3 months I'll let you know.
I also understand the satisfaction others get from their modifications and really appreciate comments on this forum about their experiences. It keeps others considering the same from making mistakes.
I haven't noticed the brake inefficiencies, but haven't had to panic stop either. One night a very large deer came across the road, right in front of me, running full bore. By time I saw him, crapped my pants, and reacted, it was too late to hit the brakes. It was so close that I checked the front of the car for scraped off hairs. Anyway, I wonder if pads with performance oriented material would make the difference and if TRD has something. I also wonder if this combined with a panic stop would warp the rotors due to increased heat. Rotor warpage seems to be a problem with many cars. I also wondered if keeping the brakes applied after the stop - like at a traffic light, would cause warpage by trapping heat under the pads while the rest of the rotor cooled. Applying this thought, I usually stop back aways and allow the car to creep slowly ahead, to prevent heat in just one localized area. Seems to help.
- thinner rotors made out of lower cost materials.
- over torqued lugnuts. This is worse with alloys ( I think) because they have less give than steel and all of the excess torque can distort the rotors. Your owners manual will have a torque spec for the alloys. This spec is often ignored by mechanics and tire changers who just blast them with an air wrench. My wifes VolvoXC ( gone, thankfully)was experiencing severe pulsing and shimmy from the rotors ( after a service), I retightened to spec with my torque wrench and 90% went away, permanent deformation of the rotor caused the remainder.
I really doubt that one hard stop can generate enough heat to warp even today's rotors, I wouldn't worry about it.
I understand the 'taste' comment. This world is one big compromise. I used to think that if something came a certain way, that that was the best design. Bullsnort! After working with the engineering aspect of things, I understood about compromises. Management or bean counters may dictate a price point and the engineer must cut corners to meet it. An engineer may have to design a compromise suspension as dictated when he full well knows it isn't correctly damped. That's why aftermarket parts are available. I suspect that many of these designers are former big 3 employees who could no longer tolerate this and went on their own.
On production parts. Everything has a tolerance. Parts can definately vary. And there is also such a thing as 'off spec' - where parts do not meet spec., but are approved anyway, to keep production going. I heard about 2 Lincolns with 460 engines. They had got gas mileage at both extremes. They discovered that distributor tolerances were also at opposite extremes. We bought a 90 Mitsubishi Galant rental car less than a year old. We drove all of the dozen or so cars that they had, taking a notepad with 2 columns marked Pro and Con to evaluate each car. Among the things that we found was that the silver cars had firmer seats than the gold cars. The dealer was very surprised by what the dumb consumer found. I suspect that the foan for the seats came from different suppliers or at least different batches of foam. Out short term TASTE prefered the gold seats as being more comfortable only to find out that long term, the firmer seats would have been better even though they didn't feel as comfortable at first.
Another point. Years ago, a fellow named Julian Hirsch, I believe, ran a lab that evaluated stereo equipment for Stereo Review magazine. I don't think he could hear, as everything was graded by measurement. Later, I became involved in high end audio and soon learned that specifications were only where you 'started' in a good sounding piece of equipment. Everything right down to cables and capacitors had a sonic signiture. The problem was, it couldn't be measured, but the ears could still hear the differences. And 2 great pieces of equipment may not sound right when used together if they didn't 'like' each other. SO, AB, while you may reach your best result going suspension before tires, others may find what they are looking for going a different direction. The end result may even be similar. The most important thing is that each of us end up with a result suitable to our TASTE. Lower your perch a bit. :-)
As a slight aside I had not realized that, in spite of its large trunk, the Avalon sports a full-size spare tire - very nice.
I think it is only fair to comment that I am far from sure that harder racing pads are actually going to be any better in panic stops than the original pads. In fact, I'm going to make sure the originals are returned to me so I can reinstall them if necessary. The cost is sufficiently minimal that I feel I can experiment.
In the early days of disk brakes, expert opinion was to avoid pressing the pads onto the disk following heavy use of the brakes, exactly as you describe. My impression is that modern systems are considerably more forgiving, and the practice of releasing the pedal pressure is probably unnecessary.
55396, I wonder what year Aurora you tested, probably '01 or newer. Not the same car as '99 and earlier, not even close (although less $ also; my '99 stickered for $38k!) Talk about compromises. The original Aurora had its own platform. The newer model shared platform w/LeSabre and Bonneville. Many compromises.
Anyhow, back to Avalon. Purchased 1 month ago, drove to Maryland from Ohio to purchase. Mint, loaded except navi w/14k miles. Wanted a car that was quiet and rode good to replace the Aurora. Found it in the XLS. Nicely dampened ride with good road isolation (some may say too much however). Insurance for the '03 Avalon is $60 less/yr than the '99 Aurora (same coverage).
All of you helped me decide on the purchase with your comments (thanks). Also was looking at the Accord and Camry. Avalon gave me the size, ride and relative exclusivity in a car model that I was looking for (see too many of the others on the road).
I am impressed with the quality of the Avalon.
Looking forward to the follow-up on how the TRD pads perform. Might consider when I need new brakes (hopefully not very soon!)
-Eric
In reference to your questions in regards to tires, since I cannot test them all, all I can do is compare to the OEM, winter tires, etc. that I also run on my '02. I like the new Falkens for what they are. They probably are not the best tire nor for every driving situation, but I thought for the price and performance in all catergories including comfort (including ride and noise) they were a "Best Buy" as CR often denotes. The comfort of the Avalon is great stock, but not to me in not all situations for the driving I do. I do notice a little increase "whir" but it is not terrible. The tires definitely do "pavement slap" especially with the TokicoHP struts, so if that is something you cannot tolerate, I would hesitate to rec. these. I run them exactly at 31 PSI and the roads here got to be among the worst you can imagine in the NY metro area. If you have not changed your struts, and are worried about the handling becoming more vague with replacement tires, can tolerate a little more noise and pavement slap, then these would be very good tires. They ride comfotably, handle crisply, and you don't even now you are driving in the rain. Realize that these tires are essentially new, with about 2K on them ONLY. We'll see what happens when I hit 15-20K, but if they get bad, not a big deal, I'll get another pair at that price. I don't know how this compare to the Kumhos, but I usually use Comsumer Reports as a heavily weighted guide and use the comments people write into the tire sites as a secondary measure and then compare prices. I don't have an opinion really on the looks of the tire although I guess as far as tires go, they are good looking. I am more concerned about how it functions on this vehicle and I think, depending on the application of the vehicle, you could determine which tire is better for you. What type of driving do you do and where do you live??? How are the road conditions??? Do you go through snow and do you use winter tires??? All of those kinda things.
For all the rest of you that are "abfisch bashing" lately, all I have to say is "nanny nanny boo boo." These are just my opinions, as strong as they may be and in no way are the gospel nor do I mean anything other than healthy debate, which is being accomplished. If you really take offense, which you should not, as nothing personal is intended, don't read mine. Skip mine, and go to the ones you want to read whether they are substantiated by just opinions or referenced (rarely).
While you do comment though, you might want to back up your opinions with concurrence from publications who have tested this car, compared it to others and have pointed out its flaws. I don't see that too much above, but the articles for Avalon reviews can always be referenced. I didn't test drive the car and compare it, CR and other publications did. It still was at the top of the list, in large cars. If you didn't know, Toyota quality, while still very good has been slipping lately. The average Avalon driver is 61 years old, from data from USA today. The Chrysler 300 (NEW) is taking away sales from this years Avalon.
As far as TRD front brake pads, I think mentioned above, I have them in the front. The package might say Camry/Solara without mentioning Avalon. No surprise to at least some of you, they all fit the same. They are very good, but you will get alot more brake dust on your wheels, especially is you have the spoked alloys. That is one of the tradeoffs you have to live with. I thought the EBC greenstuff brake pads were better, but these TRD are good and superior to stock. There longevity will be reduced but the extra stopping power may be worth it. I do the brakes myself most of the time, so the parts are the only really big component to the service. I am not sure if I had to pay for it all the time, if I would get them, as you will go through more pads quicker, especially if you do city/rush hour type of driving.
As another volley, I drove a collegues 04 Volvo S80 AWD yesterday. Similar in size, a few European things. One of the things I did note, was as I did a 180 off Route 9W, the handling was neutral and balanced and the car stopped suredly and straight, with a tiny bit of squeal without wheel lock-up, confidence inspiring. This car was two days off the lot and was without any aftermarket parts. There were other things that I did not like (the stereo, the driving position, the low sterring wheel position, the difficulty getting out of the car, etc., but those two above were not one of them. If you Avalon feels like this, great, but mine was far from it from the factory, so I made the necessary changes.
Hope that helps some of you.
"Feed the forum"
abfisch
It wass a 00 or an 01 - the new style. Another one may have been fine, but I didn't drive another one. Lease return, I assume. Who knows what kind of use it has but it kinda turns you off. Maybe an agri business had it and drove it through farm fields. I buy daily rental cars a year old or less and have had no problems with them. I do drive and evaluate them though. And they are Japanese. I hope the day comes that I feel I can buy American again. The CTS-V turns my crank and was impressed with the luxury and power of the new DTS we drove. I won't buy new though, due to the depreciation and I'm afraid of the used ones. Too bad.
Jerry
.....and apparently from many other brands and models. The in-your-face styling, rear wheel drive, hemi-availabilty and an unfashionably high beltline, all seem to meet a need. It's not my kind of car -- I also like the Volvo S80, Abfisch, and have the same minor complaints you do -- but the 300 certainly has a wide appeal that the Avalon will probably never have. The average Avalon driver is 61, eh? Boy, they sure identified me!
McCleary -- it appears that the Avalon's demographic mirrors that of the Buick LaSabre. However, today I saw a young mother with a baby seating in the back seat of an '00 -'03 Avalon XL.
To my surprise the car looked filthy on the inside as well as the outside. I was even tempted to call the police because it looked like the car was stolen since it appeared she was living out of the car. Man, there ought to be a law against driving a filthy Avalon.
My 2000 XLS looks showroom new and most I see on the road look very good even the first generation ones. As a colleague once said friends should not let friends drive junk.
abfisch (and others), I value your opinions and they may help me to choose something other than OEM when the time comes. Regarding tires, I always purchase the lifetime balance and rotation and have the store rotate every 5k miles, which for me is every 1-1/2 months. I put over 70k on Michelin MXV4 Energy tires on my Aurora and they could have gone more miles. I did, however, decide to put on Turanzas (based on Tire Rack and Consumer Reports) and was happy with them, although I only put on 30k miles before selling the car. I don't perform any of my own work any more (oil change, brakes, rotates, etc.) and therefore try to limit the amount of labor required to maintain the car since I am paying for it. Another reason I will pay more for tires that last longer is less chance that the wheels on the car will get marred up by changing the tires and balancing. I once worked for an OEM machinery manufacturer in the tire industry and was most impressed w/Michelin since they were our most demanding customer. May not mean much to others, but they impressed me with their demands regarding the machinery, although that doesn't mean they make superior tires.
Chrysler has been doing a fine job over the last ten years regarding styling, however, their quality is still lacking. I don't understand why people value styling so much higher than quality. While I don't want an ugly car, I will put quality first and foremost (hence my forum name). I had a '98 Jeep Grand Cherokee before the Aurora and had to pay for new rear axle bearings right after the warranty expired ($1500). Heater, air, heated seats didn't work when I sold it at 140k miles. The high beam switch, when pulled WOULD LEAVE YOU WITHOUT ANY LIGHTS. Also had suspension problems and the transmission was beginning to slip. The car was immaculate in/outside, the styling was nice, and the Infinity stereo sounded great (notice how they put in very nice stereos and focus on the items that the typical consumer notices and wants when purchasing a new car!).
BTW, I have read that Chrysler quality is going up and MB quality is going down. I know that the newer Chrysler models have MB components in them, maybe MB is now using some Chrysler components!
With respect to the average age for Avalon drivers: Our Avalon driver is 17. One of her 17 year old friends drives an Avalon too. The teens like it because everyone fits, front seat or back seat, including the one that is 6'7".
Looked at a 300 and Magnum the other day. Find the interior of the Avalon warmer and the exterior size of the Avalon much easier to park.
With respect to Chrysler quality: My 2003 PT GT is the best assembled car I have purchased. Better than my Acura and Toyota. Not enough miles on it to tell about long term reliability, but it has needed just one repair in two years.
My Avalon is nearly nine years old. The interior has held up well, with fading of the rear package shelf and areas where the leather color is gone. The front seats have been re colored once and some plastic trim pieces were re colored at the same time. Paint looks very good (three stage pearl white) though it has apparently faded because Toyota touch-up paint is dark by comparison. Still on OE front brakes. Car is rattle free (unlike my more expensive MDX).
Tires: Used to always retire with Michelin. That always rode and handled well. They also seemed to last a lot of miles. Today, other brands perform as well or better and the cost (for my cars - not the MDX) of Michelin tires appear as much as twice the cost of other brand similar performing tires.
Thank for your reply
Les
fndlyfmrflyr, I am glad that you can give the Cruiser such high regard, especially since you can compare against the Avalon and MDX. Many people don't have the diverse references (multiple manufacturers, Japanese vs. "Domestic") that you have. It appears that you are truly unbiased in your comments.
bubbaboybubba, I totally agree w/your comments and also desire the competition for the makers (quality, style, features, etc.). At some point, the quality levels will be so similar that they won't be considered as heavily (diminishing returns on $'s spent). Manufacturing quality products at a competitive cost is not a trivial task. I will always reward those who strive for and produce quality.
I like Lexus's catch phrase "The Relentless Pursuit of Perfection."
Note: I also asked dealers who they used for paintless dent repair and painted bumper scratches. Like the leather repair person I ended up using these people. Good work and reasonably priced. Example: Two dents removed cost $50 - can't find where the doors were dented. 20 minutes for the repair. Repair scratches, a hole, and painted front and rear bumper on neighbor's Ody cost $200. Took about two hours and the bumpers still look like new over a year later. Done in the neighbor's driveway. This was from a service that goes from dealer to dealer. The Chrysler dealer told me about this one.
Finally test drove the it and the other candidates (Camry, Accord, Infiniti G35) this past week and it finally settled me on the Avalon. Trouble is, it seems very hard to find the options I want: Premium Luxury Package, Sunroof, Vehicle Stability Control, and Glass Break Sensor. Color isn't that important. I had gone onto the local dealer's sites here in New Orleans late last week just before deciding, and found one meeting the requirements. Of course, it's now gone and checking any dealer in the Gulf States region produces the same list of cars. The closest I can get is no glass break sensor, but about a zillion dollars of worthless stuff like spoilers (on an Avalon?), custom tape stripes and such. I've emailed one of the dealers about what I wanted, but car dealers in Louisiana are closed on Sunday.
I did find one apparently due to arrive in Atlanta this week from the Southeast distributor and it's only a $90 one way air fare. It's a long one-day drive back.
I suppose my questions are:
How often do the dealers receive shipments of new Avalons in the Gulf States region? Any reason to distrust the dealers' expected representations when I receive them?
Is it hard to special order; do you pay through the nose; and how long does it take? (A friend special-ordered a Highlander a while back and it took six months)
Or, is it worth looking outside the Gulf States region if things don't look too promising here.
Finally, does anyone have any knowledge of how plentiful these configurations are?
Thanks for any help and I hope to be joining you guys as an owner soon.
Toyota actually has a target of 14 days between order and delivery, but I suspect they are still a long way from that.
2. I found an interesting discussion on Rip Off Reports about Falken tires and Falken clones here:
http://www.badbusinessbureau.com/reports/ripoff74913.htm
Lots of talk about who owns what too.
A statement from there that contrasts the soft sidewall statement above:
"Two characteristics of the Ziex model tire that standout are it's ability to withstand high temperatures, and the solid, less flex sidewall construction that only the Ziex, and Falken's other tire, the Azenis have. I have not seen this type of sidewall build on any other premium tire, let alone a lesser tire by a generic company."
AB, where did you get yours for $51?
Best thing to do is use the "Recent Msgs" link on the page bar to redisplay a page. But if you do inadvertently repost, you can always delete the duplicate by using the "delete" option on the right side of your message.
2. I found an interesting discussion on Rip Off Reports about Falken tires and Falken clones here:
http://www.badbusinessbureau.com/reports/ripoff74913.htm
Lots of talk about who owns what too.
A statement from there that contrasts the soft sidewall statement above:
"Two characteristics of the Ziex model tire that standout are it's ability to withstand high temperatures, and the solid, less flex sidewall construction that only the Ziex, and Falken's other tire, the Azenis have. I have not seen this type of sidewall build on any other premium tire, let alone a lesser tire by a generic company."
AB, where did you get yours for $51?
1. Replace with new blade inserts -- you have already done this with no success.
2. Try reversing the blades -- i.e. examine the blade and see if it can be put in "upside down" on the same wiper arm.
3. Remove the accumulation of silicone spray and road junk that causes smearing in wet weather. For this, alcohol-based solvents don't work! Use a wet sponge or cloth coated with Bon Ami or some similar non-abrasive powder-based cleaner such as Comet Soft Powder cleanser. Do NOT use regular Comet or you will scratch the windshield. The Soft Powder cleansers will "cut" the film and clean your windshield. Go over the windshield twice, and then flush with a hose to remove the white residue.
To really finish the job, now apply Rain-X by following the product instructions. There is a fair amount of elbow grease necessary to completely remove excess Rain-X, but the result is worth it.
Having said all this, I have a Saab 5-door hatchback with a rear wiper. Because of the unusual curvature of the rear hatch window, I have never successfully eliminated wiper blade judder at that location!
Gulf States and South East Toyota are two HUGE distributors. They really control what is available to Toyota shoppers from Texas to North Carolina and Florida.
SET has a very large 'port' operation in Jacksonville where they put on all kinds of aftermarket options like spoilers, special wheels and the ultra famous 1970's "fabric protector". Dealers have little say in what they get from these folks.
That means if you want a specific configuration, you need to shop outside of that zone and plan on the drive home.
I'd look in St. Louis or Washington DC. I know it's a long way, but here in the Northeast you ought to be able to get an Avalon XLS this time of year very close to invoice pricing.
Boch Toyota in Norwood MA is the second biggest Toyota dealership in the world in annual volume.
For example, they have 4 2004 Avalon XLS's with lux pkg, sunroof and VSC.
I never did hear back from that local internet inquiry. I suppose I'll talk to some salesmen in person first, and if that doesn't look promising, go outside the gulf and then outside the southeast. I like D.C., but it's a little over 1,000 miles. Plus, the wife wouldn't let me stay there long anyway
I also read those comments on both bad and good with the Falkens. IMO, there is always someone that is going to be disappointed by each brand of tire no matter what. If 85% of the people are pleased with it, and CR rated it a best buy, that was good enough for me, especially since the price was so attractive.
It is tiresavings.com or cheaptires.com, I cannot remember now. Hope I don't get into trouble for putting their name on this forum. They were $41 each and $10 each shipping, two days to my door. The size was the 15" size, so if you have the 16" size, the price will be a little more I am sure.
Thanks.
abfisch
Check it out and report back!
From the beginning, we felt it was a very poor choice on Toyota's part to not have a telescoping steering wheel in a $30,000 car, especially when the standard position is so close to the pedals. At 6'2" I found the steering wheel to be my biggest complaint over such a long drive. I never found a comfortable driving position and was constantly adjusting the power seat and wheel to try to accomodate myself. Part of that may have also come from the driver's seat itself. It just seemed to lack thigh support or lateral support, I'm not sure. The arm rests also began to feel like a Marquis de Sade creation after awhile because they offered little comfort for my arms that were weary from reaching so far away for that dang steering wheel.
The other standout complaint would have to be the sun visors. If you try to block the sun coming in your side window, the car's design foils you because the exit assist handles are in the way. Putting the handles above the doors instead of on the A pillar was a big mistake. It begs the question, did no one at Toyota ever actually get in and drive one of these things?
Otherwise I would echo what others have said on the negative side, the steering is too light and lacks feel of the road, and the suspension seems a little too soft. On the positive side our back seat passengers were treated to an expansive cabin, our trunk swallowed up 4 people's bags and supplies without a whimper, and the mileage with the A/C going all the time was about 27-28 mpg average on the highway. Since the car is new, it improved as the trip progressed. The ride was smooth and the cruise control was very accurate. Long hills that would drag other cars down 5 or 10 mph just caused the Avalon to downshift and it kept that needle dead on the mark. Visibility was good and the car was so quiet that we could talk in normal voices.
My $0.02 worth for those in the market.
While at the car show this year (spent the entire day there and check out all brands) I noticed that the Cadillac Escalade had its grab handles in the middle of the door openings. Try to get into that vehicle without twisting your back! Agree that the placement could be better on both vehicles and have noticed similar placement on many others also. Can see why people or vehicles (large SUVs) that require their use would take issue.
Welcome to the forum. I could not agree more with your observations as I approximate the same height as you and my body is not getting younger. All in all a very good car but Toyota has room for improvement. I also have to stop far back of traffic lights as the anterior edge of the roof sloops down, and I am too high, even with the seat in the max. low position to see the traffic light if i STOP exactly at the white line. It is good for hiding a radar detector up there though. Good with bad. Another minor complaint is the car (springs) get weighted down rather quickly with a full car, luggage, and/or pulling a small trailer. If it is made for this, is should be able to accomplish this without the rear end sag associated with all the excess baggage and weight.
I did my first AX(Automatic Transaxle) fluid change and power steering fluid change. The tranny change with a little tricky as I did not want to overfill it, and the vicosity of the ATF makes it difficult to measure the level initially, at least for me. The power steering fluid was pretty straightforward. This 02 has 51K on it now.
The relatively new Falken Tires perform very well in the rain, but there is road noise associated with this tire as well as tire slap on expansion joints, so if you desire a quiet tire, this is not the one.
Hope this helps some of you.
"Feed the forum"
abfisch
KYB GR2 struts, $700 installed ,worked wonders on my '03. It now drives and rides better than new.
18 to 20 mpg in town.