2010 Ford Fusion vs. Honda Accord and Toyota Camry

hackattack5

Since the Fusion has made so many improvments over the past year I think this thread could be a good place to search if they were on the bubble between the Fusion or Accord or Camry

koho955

I test drove all 3 cars 2 or 3 times before purchasing my Ford Fusion V6 SEL.
Both the Accord & Camry had a ton of road noise The Honda has this horrible new system where some of the 6 cylinders shut down to conserve fuel at low speeds and this alone drove me nuts on a 5 minute test drive.

mz6greyghost

The Honda has this horrible new system where some of the 6 cylinders shut down to conserve fuel at low speeds and this alone drove me nuts on a 5 minute test drive.

A co-worker of mine has a '08 with that cylinder de-activation feature. It noticeably JERKS when the system becomes active, no matter what speed or what conditions it's driven in. The jerk has even been diagnosed by the dealer, yet after a half-dozen attempts, they still can't fix it. As for actual fuel savings, he estimates he gets maybe one more MPG, but to him it's not worth it.

hackattack5

FORD VEHICLE RESIDUAL VALUES RISE $1,300 ON AVERAGE FROM 2009 TO 2010 MODEL YEAR; INDUSTRY'S LARGEST GAIN•The projected resale value of 2010 Ford, Lincoln and Mercury vehicles after 36 months in service increased by an average of $1,310 per vehicle compared to the 2009 model year – the industry's largest increase among full-line manufacturers
•The improvement allowed Ford to narrow the residual value gap with leading Asian automakers and maintain its advantage over U.S.-based automakers
•The 2010 Ford Fusion is expected to bring customers $687 more than the 2010 Toyota Camry after 36 months in service; the residual value of the 2010 Ford Flex commands an $1,800 premium over the Toyota Highlander
•Improved quality, new features and popular redesigned products are helping to boost Ford's residual values. Ford improved more than any other automaker in ALG's Perceived Quality Survey released in the fall of 2009
•Compete Inc., a Massachusetts research firm that studies online car shopping, says Ford has surpassed Toyota in customer consideration for the first time since it began tracking such data in 2002. Compete data show Ford surpassed Toyota in customer consideration in September, October and November
DEARBORN, Mich., Dec. 18, 2009 – Ford Motor Company vehicles, bolstered by improved quality, fuel economy and popular redesigned models, recorded the largest increase in residual values from the 2009 to the 2010 model year among full-line manufacturers.

"We are very pleased that the quality and fuel economy our products are delivering is reflected in our residual values," said Ken Czubay, Ford vice president, Marketing, Sales and Service. "We know future trade-in value is a very important factor to customers when they are shopping for a new vehicle."

Ford already held a residual value advantage over its U.S.-based rivals. With the improvement in the 2010 model year, Ford narrowed the gap with leading Asian automakers, including Toyota.

scottjn

I too drove all three before buying a Fusion V6 SEL. The Camry had a real cheap bland interior and the similar model (SE) had no trunk pass through and rode very low to the ground (a would be problem with the dip in my drive way). The Accord wasn't too bad, but the lack of a backup camera in the Nav system was a deal killer for me, plus I wasn't too fond of the dash (looks like a face smiling at you). To me the closest comparison was the Altima, but I didn't want to pay $1000 more or an 2009 model.

acdii

I had a 2009 Camry Hybrid, and although it is a reliable, dependable car, there were just too many gripes to make it a great car. The interior was cheap, the shade for the sunroof was flimsy and would rattle, the seat material was thin and showed signs of wear after 34K miles and 16 months of use, in fact if I pressed the palm of my hand down on the front middle of the seat cushion, I could feel the springs. The handling of the car was horrible, it cornered like a rowboat, and was too soft and floating. It has terrible wind noise, and road noise was more than I should expect on such a highly rated car. It had a good sounding stereo, reception on AM was pretty good, comfort wasn't too bad, but long trips made my legs ache after a while. A couple positive things to grant it, the Smart Key system is great, and you cant beat the 38 MPG I got.

I traded it for a 2010 Fusion Sport, and I don't miss it one bit, not even the smart key. It is more comfortable, handles far superior to the Camry, is much quieter, even with the throaty V6 under throttle. So far 8000 miles, not a single rattle or squeak. Material quality is much better than the Camry, the Sony is OK, not as good as the JBL unless you are driving with the speed sensitive adjust at the max, then it sounds good, until you slow down and stop. Fuel economy isn't too bad considering how much horsepower is under the hood which I DO use. On the highway I can achieve 31 MPG, my normal driving is 23. The heated seats are also heated up the back, the others only do the seat cushion, not the back. The Sync is great, being able to plug a small hard drive in with all my music and not having to touch a CD, but just scroll through my music, or tell it to play an artist, great. The Bluetooth for the phone is much better than the Camry, I can actually carry a two way conversation without waiting for the other party to stop talking, just as if I were actually holding the phone. The gripe I have is the same as quite a few others, the button locations on the center stack could be better arranged, and some better use of the steering wheel controls would be an improvement. Everyone in the family loves the Sport, the little ones love going somewhere in it, they like when I give it gas and they get pushed into their car seats. The car handles as if on rails, taking curves and turns that in the Camry required me to slow way down, I can take much faster now with little body roll. And overall, the car just LOOKS better, inside and out. I really like the new front end design over last years models, the head lights are much sleeker.

volvowner

I test drove the 2010 Fusion 2.5L 4 cyl sedan, the 2009 Accord 4 cyl sedan and coupe. Here are my impressions:

Fusion -- The car had good handling, and a nice balance of handling bumps without the sponginess of the Camry. I thought the dashboard lighting was cheap looking, with red and blue lighting (it was daytime, so it may look better at night. With a sunroof the headroom was minimal, lower than several other cars I've driven. My main gripe was that even with the larger 4 cyl engine, when I accelerated I got lots of whiny noise, but little acceleration.

Accord -- Performance was better than the Fusion...it spoke less, sounded more powerful, and delivered more acceleration. The coupe is downright peppy off the line. Some might consider the interior bland, but I thought it was more refined than the Fusion. The buttons are somewhat confusing, with lots of similarly sized buttons, but it starts to make sense after an adjustment period.

In the end, the Accord held together as a package better than the Fusion -- to me Honda is still a master of making the various elements work as a unit. I bought the coupe, partly for the little bit of additional horsepower, partly for the better styling, and partly just to avoid redundancy with my other sedan. It's been a great car so far.

I personal view is that the Fusion is a legitimate competitor in the midsize market, but is a generation or two from putting all the pieces together into a whole that exceeds the parts.

hackattack5

"In the end, the Accord held together as a package better than the Fusion"

Well I traded my 2008 Accord with 23,000 miles on it for a Fusion SEL. The Accord was a 4 cylinder and when I floored it the engine would hesitate for a few seconds then take off like a bat out of hell. The road noise was terrible and I was on my 2nd set of REAR brakes. I noticed the materials and mostly the workmanship had dropped from previous Accords that I owned. I like my Fusion so far (2500 miles) it is very quite inside and I like the 390 watt Sony stereo with sirius and the Microsoft sync system. The traction control works great in the snow. I do agree that the roof line is a little low with the moonroof and the 2.5 engine is noisy when its floored.

koho955

I have always been a Toyota and Honda/Acura guy but when I decided to go back to a car instead of an SUV this round, the Ford Fusion drove the best. I did go with the V6 so the engine noise is minimal and so is the road noise. The road, wind and outside traffic noise was brutal in the Honda and Toyota compared to the 2010 Ford Fusion V6 SEL.
Now that I have about 2,500 miles on it and the seats are worked in, I am truly amazed that this is an American made Ford product. I am pretty picky about noise and comfort but this car drives great.
Very impressed how great this car drives in the snow with a big snow falling in Chicago tonight. Great tires!
Used the USB port today for the first time to play MP3 files and the stereo jams!

volvowner

You made a couple of points about the Fusion that I agree with...I just forgot to put in my original post (the dinner call came as I was typing and...first things first). The Sync system is useful and I think a real selling point, and Honda tends to be slow to add the latest technology -- my radio is mediocre and it'd be nice to have a USB connection. I don't think the Accord materials are substandard, but the previous gen was exceptional for the price point, and they did take a couple of steps backward. Seems like in 2003 their target was the Passat, whereas in 2008 it was the Sonata.

As for you flooring your Accord, I don't do that...maybe that driving style is why you were on your 2nd set of brakes?

hackattack5

"As for you flooring your Accord, I don't do that...maybe that driving style is why you were on your 2nd set of brakes"

Did not have to floor it too many times, merge gone bad or sweet nibblets didn't see that guy coming or racing a fusion at a red light. Now as far as the REAR brakes being shot at 23,000 miles since you did buy the Accord you will be finding out soon enough about the brake problem the next time you take it in for service ask them how much pad you have left in the back V/S the front.

acdii

The other day I drove home with the radio off, something I rarely do. I never noticed before, but the Sport is so quiet at 60MPH, all I hear is a slight humming whisper, only time I heard tire noise was when I hit a bump, and even those weren't very loud. My father-in-law is a mercedes guy, and I let him take the car for a drive, and even he liked it, if he gets another car, I wouldn't be surprised to see him get one of these. Of course he has an S600, but if it breaks on him again, the last repairs were well over $6000 for an alternator and oil leak, he probably will dump the car.

I wish there was a Lincoln dealer near here, I just want to look at the MKZ and see what it has that the Fusion doesn't(Aside from HID and Homelink).

akirby

Heated and cooled seats, THX stereo are the main differences currently. I expect the MKZ to get the new 300+ hp 3.7L engine at some point and some of the newer features like park assist, etc. Take a look at the new MKX (just shown at the detroit auto show) for a hint of where the MKZ will be going.

ewit

I have not had a chance to test drive the camery ,accord or the fusion yet,but they are my three to try out.I am a big guy 6'1 250 lbs. My question is which would have the most head and leg room.

berri

If you're tall, you probably don't want a sunroof on the Camry unless you don't mind a noticeable seat recline to fit.

jeffyscott

If you go here: http://www.edmunds.com/apps/nvc/edmunds/VehicleComparison
and enter each of those, I am pretty sure one of the things that shows up is a comparison of those interior measurements.

However, I think the only way to really know how they compare for yourself is to sit in them, with everything adjusted to positions that are comfortable for you.

stephen987

Subjectively I think the Accord would have the most head room of the three. But you really should try on a Hyundai Sonata too. You might find it a better fit than any of the others.

xmech

I'm a big guy too, and the Fusion is perfectly roomy and comfortable for me. I don't have the seat all the way back and I HATE not having enough leg room. I've read a complaint or 2 about headroom in Fusions with the sunroof, but I don't have one and haven't tried.

My only advice is (Having the 6-way seat in the SE) move the back of the seat bottom all the way down, the front up a bit and lean the back a little higher than you think you will like, and it will be comfortable. Took me a while to get a good seat position, and I started worrying a bit until I tried that out.

Good luck with your decision.

hoyafan

for obvious reasons...

rcummelin

Yeah, don't bother with Toyotas until they get their throttle linkages fixed. There's something really strange going on there, since Toyota historically does everything they can sweep controversies under the rug. Perhaps the "problem" is really MUCH bigger than anyone thinks? Hmmmm.....

acdii

I had a 2009 Hybrid, it would surge when coming to a stop, and it had nothing to do with the floor mats. It was sporadic, and unexpected, took us by surprise every time it happened. I did catch it happen once when I was looking at the dash while slowing down and I saw engine power light up, felt the surge, and I pressed harder on the brake, then the engine power shut down, and the car stopped. I never took it in since it was so sporadic and couldnt be reproduced. It only happened when slowing down from high speed, 55-60 MPH after going about 4-5 miles, and not all the time. It was enough though for us to get rid of it.

akirby

You do realize that there is no throttle linkage - it's all electronic now.

acdii

And, since it is all PCM controlled, an firmware update can add throttle disconnect in a panic brake. I read somewhere the Fusion already has this, but cant find it. I can't find it in the OM.

rcummelin

Sure, I know that, but do ya think that those folks killed/maimed/injured by run-away Toyotas cared whether the linkage was mechanical or electronic?

Hmmm, maybe not so much....

acdii

At the bottom of this page is a Toyota ad with the Camry. ROFLMAO

akirby

That has nothing to do with calling it by the correct name. And there is a lot of evidence that says this is also a computer problem, not just a gas pedal problem.

rcummelin

Are you implying that the term "throttle linkage" is incorrect? Surely you know that somewhere between the driver's right foot and the fuel injection system there MUST be some sort of mechanical interface (a.k.a. a linkage) that converts analog pedal movement to digital computer signals? I will agree however that this is likely a computer problem - see below.

BTW- I received a new copy of Car & Driver today and it has an article titled "Runaway Toyotas", covering primarily Toyota's earlier fiasco with floormats, and how to control your car when it becomes a runaway. However, they are claiming that while many other manufacturers have added some software that programs the throttle to close when the brakes are applied, Toyotas do NOT have this throttle cutoff software, but are adding it posthaste (duh!).

Kind of like closing the barn door after the horses are gone. I'm going to be interested in what solution Toyota actually develops to solve this problem.

rcummelin

NBC News just reported that Toyota's problem is with the actual gas pedal assembly, made for Toyota by CTS Corp. Apparently some pedals exhibit a "slow return" symptom which may be the root cause. They have actually found eight (yes, 8) pedals that exhibit the problem.

Stay tuned.....

explorerx4

that is another of the problems.

akirby

Technically you are correct, there is a linkage there but it's electronic. Throttle linkage typically refers to the throttle cable, but I guess now it will mean something different.

akirby

There appears to be 3 problems - floor mats, sticky gas pedal and an electronic problem. A sticky gas pedal would not cause a vehicle to begin accelerating after the gas pedal had been released and returned to idle while braking, and that has been reported numerous times.

acdii

Yes, it can. Mechanically the pedal returns, but the resistor unit, the part sending the signal to the PCM for throttle application may stick, telling the PCM to accelerate. In the days of mechanical linkage, I have seen cables bind, causing the throttle to stay open. The difference between the two, is the cable bound one can be pulled back to unstick the throttle, the electronic one cant. With the DBW throttle, applying brake should disengage the throttle, but that has to be programmed in.

akirby

You misunderstood what I said. The throttle had already been released without sticking and while the brakes were being applied, the car began to accelerate again without any accelerator pedal input. This scenario has been reported several times and cannot be blamed on a sticky gas pedal. A faulty sensor - yes, but that's not what Toyota is claiming is the problem with the gas pedal assemblys AFAIK.

acdii

If what you say is correct, and if the mat was on top of the pedal, then what could possibly have happened is the force applied to the gas pedal is causing it to stick. when you press on with your foot, it is pretty much straight on, but the mat would press it down, and sideways at the same time. If the mat is not on the pedal, then who the hell knows. :confuse:

akirby

No mats - they had already been removed. So again - the floor mats and pedal assembly explain 2 of the 3 reported problems, but not the 3rd one. Consensus is there is an electronic problem, either with a sensor, controller or software and that is the one that Toyota (so far) has not acknowledged.

spartanman2

Hackattack- Since you started this thread a while ago, I bet you are relieved that you did not buy the Camry.

My father-in-law bought an 2010 Camry LE 3 weeks ago, after also test driving the Accord and Fusion.....In light of the recent gas pedal issues, he's now upset he didn't go with Ford ( his 2nd choice).

Appears the world of Toyota is crumbling further..more bad news for Toyota this evening:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/02/business/main6167391.shtml?tag=stack

I'm usually partial to Japanese brands, but am very happy to see Ford doing so well lately WITHOUT the help of our tax dollars.

wayne21

I'm also glad to see Ford doing well. However, don't be misled on Ford not taking tax dollars. They actually took theirs firts - three years ago. They were actually worse off than GM. But I think Ford now has the opportunity to turn around with the Toyota problems creating new customers for Ford. I was actually waiting for the new sonata, but think I'm going to pass this time around as there are too many new things in this sonata that haven't yet been proven - GDI (germans had their share of problems with this and idk if hyundai will get it right the first time); new transmission (who knows how that will work out); and a new suspension system. I think I'm going to give serious consideration to a 6 cyl mustang as it is going to be about the same price as the sonata SE with the tradeoff being that you get 3/5 mpg less on the mustang, but 100 hp and 100 ft lb torque more than the sonata 4 cylinder.

revit

Seriously...first floor mat issues, then pedals, now electronics...gosh, what's next!

hackattack5

"Hackattack- Since you started this thread a while ago, I bet you are relieved that you did not buy the Camry"

Yes I am really happy with the Fusion. The Accord because of problems that Honda would not address was never an option.(I was trading in an 08 Accord) I have been purchasing Japanese for the 16 years and I do have a 08 Tacoma that has been great but this Fusion is really nice and quiet and tight. The only reason I even looked at the Fusion over the Camry was because of this website. It was all over after the test drive. I think Ford has a long way to go on the models that they are not focusing on but I am really impressed with the Fusion, Taraus and F150. The resale price is still a concern for me and I don't think Ford has learned the rental car sale problem yet so I will just let my wife drive it till the resale doesn't matter so much. With Toyota's issue's who know what the resale value of Camry's will be?

acdii

Well now Steve Wozniak of Apple fame is claiming his Prius runs away sometimes when he uses the cruise control. The NTSB and Japan are now questioning Toyota over the brakes on the Prius disengaging on rough roads. The TCH I had did the same thing, though it sounds like the Prius has it more severe, enough to have caused crashes.

I am so glad I got rid of the Toyotas when I did.

akirby

However, don't be misled on Ford not taking tax dollars. They actually took theirs firts - three years ago.

Care to explain this? Ford secured private loans, not Government loans.

wayne21

The $5.9 billion going to Ford will help the company shift truck plants to production of cars, affecting about two million units of production and a dozen or more different models, including the Focus, Escape, Mustang, Taurus and F-150 pickup. Ford will also use the money to support development of a range of technologies such as improved internal combustion engines—which the company markets as “EcoBoost”—and hybrid technology

You're right. These government loans were for hybrid development and more fuel efficient cars, not a bailout. They did private loans to avoid bankrupcy.

akirby

That program was open to all automakers and suppliers and Nissan and Tesla also received loans (that have to be paid back).

And Ford didn't directly use their private loans to "avoid bankruptcy" - they used the funds to invest in new products and change their business model and that's what kept them out of bankruptcy. Sorry if I'm being picky but the point is that Ford continued to invest and develop products the last 3 years and now that's paying off in a big way.

mz6greyghost

You're right. These government loans were for hybrid development and more fuel efficient cars, not a bailout.

Considering how the Fusion Hybrid is getting nothing but praise from car enthusiasts, environmentalists, and other experts, it looks as if Ford invested wisely. Don't ya think?

acdii

IIRC Ford has also paid back those loans. What has GM and Chrysler paid back?

Karen_S

Just a reminder...this discussion is for vehicle comparison. If you wish to discuss the manufacturers, we have several appropriate topics for that in Automotive News.

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.ee9202c

spartanman2

Yes, lets get back to the comparison. But should we remove Camry from the comparison for now (I doubt anyone would choose it at this stage), and add the Mazda 6, Hyundai Sonata, Nissan Altima and Chevy Malibu to the comparison?.

I love the look of the future 2011 Sonata.

bvdj84

Though Camry has its issues. I am more than confident that they will find a solution, and move on. Their company might suffer a bit of a set back. Nothing like GM as a whole though. It is will still continue to be a car that competes with others in its class. So it should remain within the segment. They will move on.

I would still be confident in choosing a Camry when they have fixed the issue and the cars have been adjusted for the solution. Which I am sure is required before releasing the car. I am not in the market for a Camry. But, They are steps above GM right now, which is what I currently own. So anything would be better than that.

akirby

How can they adjust for a software problem that they haven't yet identified?

The problem is not the problems themselves, but how Toyota has reacted. Or not reacted as the case may be. They had to be FORCED into a recall and stop sale even though they've known about the problems since 2007.

That's what you should be concerned about.

Toyota just admitted there is a flaw in the Prius braking software and that it was fixed on the production vehicles last month. But they have not notified nor were they planning to notify current customers to provide a retroactive fix until they were pushed on it by Steve Wozniak among others.

acdii

What Toyota would have done is when you brought the Prius in for service, they would quietly update the PCM on the car without notifying the customer. Ford does the same thing, a friend of mine worked for a FLM dealer as the service manager so he would provide me with updates as they came out to address TSB's and such for my F350.

Now that it is out in the open, they are forced to notify all owners of this problem so that it gets done.

hackattack5

"What Toyota would have done is when you brought the Prius in for service, they would quietly update the PCM on the car without notifying the customer"

Honda and Toyota have been doing this for years. I remember my brother taking his Accord in for an oil change and they asked to keep the car for a couple days and when he asked what was going on they said that there was a potential issue inside the engine and had to take the head off for repairs no public notice just quiet repairs. The other neat thing they do is non advertised incentives. Just look on this website for some of the deals people are getting on Accords and Camry's, thousands under invoice but when you look at their web site you see no incentive or very little. The people who figure this out buy new Honda's or Toyota's every couple years then sell their used car (high price because of no advertised incentive) and everyone is happy. Honda / Toyota is selling cars while keeping a high resale value and the customer is happy because he can afford a new car ever 2 years. The only people who are getting burned are the used Honda / Toyota buyer who is paying too much for the car that isn't as reliable as they think. The other companies dump there cars on the rental business to move volume and kill the resale value so you can't afford to but every 2 years which leads to more rental sales.