Lexus IS 300

jagboyxkr

All of the cars in this class are very fine automobiles, and as the proud owner of a Jaguar X-TYPE and many other Jaguars, I must say that you are very much mistaken in you initial analysis of the vehicle. I can tell you that the X-TYPE in all aspects is nothing less than a Jaguar, and was conceived and designed by Jaguar Cars Ltd. with only the financial backing of the Ford Motor Company's Premiere Automotive Group. The X-TYPE is an exceptional vehicle, and until you have really examined the car for what it is, I advise you not to make anymore pre-researched judgments in areas of which you do not have knowledge.

I also must state that I do not believe many Mercedes-Benz, BMW, or other Jaguar owners will agree with you in you humble opinions, and would prefer that you try to use more tact when expressing you opinions in the future.

is300tm7

what was the point again? ?=I

riez

jagboyxkr... You own a Jaguar. Jag is wholly owned by Ford. Ford had huge operations in Germany before and during WWII. Just like General Motor's did with Opel AG. (And you might ask some people in former British colonies and possessions what they thought of the British Empire before, during, and after WW II.)

Keep forgetting who has said the IS300 is essentially a glorified Corolla. I'm assuming that is exaggeration, but for anyone who might be confused there is nothing similar or related between a Corolla & Camry/ES300 and an IS300. Carrots to watermelon comparison.

nyccarguy

Don't bother arguing with jagboyxkr. He's 16 and drives a loaded X Type 3.0 (with a slushbox no doubt).

jl30

Here is the 2003 face-lifted Altezza in Japan:

http://easyfinder.atnext.com/images/next-photos/EasyFinder/533/640pixfolder/X533-018/X533-018-04A.jpg

laithy_74

Quite possibly. Especially that the headlights look like those in the Lexus ES300.

sttropez1

Let me say I like the IS300 very much and I have driven it in a couple of opportunities. But this car simply doesn't look the $30K part. The Interior is pure Toyota $15K-$20K price range, the exterior while better tham most CALTY/Toyota designs of late is still uninspired and boy racer to no end, the lack of rear seat room and trunk room and the somewhat lacking-low-end-grunt engine is yet another fault I find with this car.

I agree with HVAN...this car marketed and sold as a Toyota would have been a hit. It appears to me that Toyota used the Altezza sedan as a quick stop gap measure to bring its Lexus division into the RWD small sedan fold. This could work in principle, but they forgot that Boy racer and luxury pretensions don't mix up with each other.

The IS300 is a good start, albeit a flop from a sales point of view. Lexus dealer's are given these critters away...no one really wants them and much less so at the asking prices suggested by Toyota. The IS300 is a "bargain" in its class but not the best vehicle by a long stretch of the imagination. It was already behind the 3 series when it was introduced in late 2000 and quickly became irrelevant when the Infinit G35 and Cadillac CTS arrived to the scene.

Every automarker has a big flop every now and then (Just look at he Lincoln Blackwood luxury truck axed last week and the infamous Pontiac Aztek)and even almighty Toyota/Lexus can make one. The IS300 is proof positive that you can't rush, patch up or attempt to fool consumers in this vehicle category and price range for too long.

The IS300 is surely a step in the right direction but Lexus needs to address its shortcomings pronto.

Hey even Hvan's 2000 Impala LS can easily dust the IS300 from a stop light...see what I mean?

lenscap

While the IS 300 may not be selling well, you can't fault Lexus for trying. And, the RWD small sporty car seems to be an up-and-coming type car, and Lexus was almost two years ahead of both Cadillac (not counting the Catera) and Infiniti in coming to market.

Plus, don't forget many car magazines tested the Altezza and begged for Lexus to bring it to the US.

I'm sure the next generation car will be a significant improvement. Perhaps it won't even be based on the Altezza as Toyota has many upscale, sporty, RWD cars sold in Japan only.

sttropez1

I agree. The car's hardware is respectable but remember that cars in this class need to be very well conceived packages all around, not in parts. That's the success of the 3 series. It appeals to a wider margin of auto enthusiasts.

vocus

I know I am probably going to get flamed because I have never driven an IS300, but it doesn't seem like that bad of a car. They seem pretty nice inside (I have a Jetta now, so I can define "nice"), so why doesn't everyone seem not to like it that much? I don't get it.

sttropez1

Vocus, go and drive a BMW 3 series, an Infiniti G35, a Cadillac CTS and then drive an IS300...you'll see what most people in this market segment mean.

The IS300 is not a bad car. It has the goods in it, but it needs to be the best, not good enough or to trail its main small RWD sedan competition.

vocus

I hate the looks of the CTS and the G35 (looks like an upscale Altima to me). The styling of the IS300 is different from the rest.

BMWs are too expensive, and their interiors are austere. So I would pick the IS300 if I had wanted to spend that much on a car when buying.

sttropez1

Fair enough, Vocus.

How's the Jetta?

vocus

Definitely loving the Jetta. Have 13K on it (bought 11/3/01). It's a 1.8T Tiptronic. Best car I have owned thus far (and the quickest too!). Only thing I hate is that the back seat is a little on the small side.

sttropez1

Good deal.

sttropez1

Actually the back seat of the IS300 is not that much bigger from your Jetta.

Trunk space is bigger in the Jetta also.

aeroking

As has been said, the IS300 is not a bad car. It is really a ball to drive. But that alone will not cut it in this segment. Other cars are fun to drive also and offer at the same time more luxury, more utility, more elegant (conservative?) exterior, better materials and easily identifiable presitge. Maybe some of these things are unimportant, but the consumer can have them all for the close to the same money the IS300 is asking. Plus, as fun as the IS300 is, it is still slower than many of its rivals with poorer gas mileage. All in all, people would rather have there cake and eat it too, so they opt for the BMW, Audi, Volvo, Acura, MB, and now G35 and CTS. They all offer a mix of attributes mostly missing from the IS300.

fxashun

It's a great looking sedan. An is pretty good for Toyotas first small RWD sedan in the U.S. Considering how wel it sells elsewhere I don't think Toyota is too worried about it's not selling well here.

sttropez1

"I don't think Toyota is too worried about it's not selling well here."

What?

You bet they are! And perhaps moving quickly to offset the losses and bring a more competitive car to market sooner.

fxashun

I meant that the model itself was no flop. The Altezza sells well enough for Toyota to have recoupe any development costs for the model. Of course they are conerned about the lack of demand fot the IS300 but what I meant was that the IS300 factory is still churning out Altzza/IS300's and not laying people off or anything.

jmess

Car A is faster than car B
Car A sells better than car B

If someone likes car B and buys car B, then who cares?

After a month of relative slumber on this board, somebody buys an IS and says they like the car and it is amazing how much this event seems to upset some people. I am sure you wish every one of your neighbors buys the exact same car as you do including colors. So if you follow the logic of some of our estmeed automotive analysts on this board, everyone should own 3 series or the G35. Doesn't this seem a little boring? Sorta like the redundant posts we see diising the IS300?

sttropez1

Can't you take criticism of your beloved car, can't you?

bobbob911

The IS300 has a more luxurious interior than the 3-series or the base model MB C-Class sedan (C240).

The IS300 exterior styling is always hugely subjective, but by no means does it trail the G35 or the CTS, at the very least.

The IS300 offers more easily identifiable prestige than an Infiniti, a Volvo, an Acura, and argueably an Audi.

I will agree with you that the IS300 is perhaps the least practical of its competitors. (Small size, small trunk, no 60/40 split rear, no hitch, no AWD). Unless, of course, small size is a favorable practical issue as it was in my case.

I have yet to see a car in virtually any reasonable price range that is a class leader in all categories, its a near impossibility. Everything is a trade off.

My Definition of an IS300 is that its not the class leader in anything (except Reliability and Dealer Support, which is important to me), but its competitive in all categories. And thats why I chose it.

bobbob911

First of all, I suspect (from your posts on the Jag X-type forum), that you are not the owner of many other Jaguars. Instead, you are only the owner of 1 X-Type that mommy and daddy bought you.

If you like your X-Type then great. In my opinion it does very little well. A big car with a tiny interior? Thats killing 0 birds with 2 stones!
Its also one of the few cars in this class thats even slower than an IS300

I'll use as much or as little tact as I want in the future, thank you very much. If you want to throw dirt in the IS300 forum, expect it in return.

jagboyxkr

Sorry, Mommy and Daddy have the other Jags; I am 16 and they bought me mine. I'll try to be more specific in the future: As the driver of many Jaguars and the proud owner of one, I feel that your comments were unnecessarily harsh.

Anyway, I do not recall "throwing dirt at you", and I never meant to if I did. I also never, ever, said the IS300 was a bad car. I did say that it was a less traditional product from Lexus, and that was why I believe that its sales have been relatively slow in comparison with is stablemates. I gave real reasons to back what I said, and I also stated that what I had said was simply my opinion on that subject.

You on the other hand came out saying that the Mercedes and the Jaguar were "cheap feeling and cheaply built", as well as "poorly conceived". -You are the only person on this board guilty of throwing dirt.

Likewise, your technical information about both the X-TYPE and the IS300 is incorrect. The X-TYPE 3.0's official 0-60 mph time with a manual transmission is 6.5 seconds. The Lexus IS300's (3.0 liter engine)official 0-60 mph time with a manual transmission is 6.7 seconds. Neither time is in anyway slow for this class, but the Jaguar ends up being the faster of the two cars - yet it also has a heavy AWD system that takes away from initial launch performance, and it is larger and heavier than the IS300 -
X-TYPE 3.0 manual weighs 3428 lbs. IS300 manual weighs 3255 lbs. X-TYPE is 183.9 inches long, 70.4 inches wide, and 54.8 inches in height. IS300 is 176.6 inches long, 67.9 inches wide, and 55.5 inches high.

You were right when you said that the Jaguar was larger than the Lexus, but the Jag's interior room is also more spacious, not smaller as you had said. X-TYPE's interior volume is 90 cubic feet. IS300's is 89 cubic feet, which is less. Also, the X-TYPE has a cargo capacity of 16 cubic feet in the trunk, while the IS300 is still behind with only 11 cubic feet. Complaining about rear-seat leg room? X-TYPE has 34.4 inches, while the IS300 has only 30.2 inches.

The one performance attribute that the IS300 has over the X-TYPE is a shorter braking distance of about a foot and a half from 60mph, and the Jaguar has one of the shortest stopping distance in its class at only 118 feet. The IS300 has very efficient brakes.

So you were rude and wrong in the same post! (But these numbers shouldn't bother you since your profile says you have a Bentley, not an IS300. Were you wrong there too?)

Does any of this make the IS300 a bad car in my opinion? Not at all. And I can't find a single post in which I stated otherwise. Somehow you did though, so please direct me to it so I may make right my mistake.

What model Bentley is it?

bobbob911

I have never seen a review of the X-Type 3.0 that hits the official numbers. Most of them are ~7.2 with the manual and ~8.0 with the auto. Not to mention that, price-wise, we should be comparing against the 2.5, not the 3.0 .

7.5 inches longer, and the interior room is virtually the same? Lame. Not to mention the lowest Headroom I can find in the class. I never said it was smaller than the IS300, I said it was tiny. I sacrificed the smaller interior because I wanted a small car. If I wanted a big car, I certainly wouldnt be satisfied with only a big trunk.

I have no idea what I put in my profile. I bought my car less than 2 weeks ago, and I've been here longer than that.

jagboyxkr

Check out Road&Track's review of the X-TYPE. They state the numbers for it and the numbers for the IS300's 0-60 times as well as some other cars. It's 6.5 seconds for the X-TYPE and the BMW 330i, and 7.1 seconds for the IS300 and Audi A4 V6. I had found the Lexus's numbers to be quicker than 7.1 seconds in other sources though, so I put in the quickest time (6.7 seconds) I could find for the IS300 for my post above. You can also read the manufacturers' numbers for the cars.

Have you ever even seen an X-TYPE or any Jaguar in person before? And I don't just mean on the road when they are passing you. The X-TYPE is larger than the IS300, but it isn't a land yatch either. No Jaguar is a huge car, but all of them offer enough interior space to be comfortable in. And if that 7.3 inches gives me both more space inside the cabin and 5 more cubic feet of trunk space than the IS300, then hey, I'll take it. Ask your rear-seat passengers if that 7.3 inches, which yields 4.2 inches more rear leg room, matters to them! Although the X-TYPE is 0.7 inch lower than the IS300, it does not mean that headroom is lacking in comparison. That only adds to a sleeker profile.

And speaking of profiles, I had second thoughts about posting this message to someone who is so ignorant that they do not even recall what information they entered as their personal profile to even the slightest degree. Phrases such as "I have no idea what I put in my profile" give impressions that your mind is going. I feel almost bad now about correcting your previous information errors when you are in this condition. No wonder you didn't like the Jaguar or the Mercedes-Benz. It's not that you just like the IS300 more, but you are insulting when you speak of any other cars; and then you don't even use true facts about the cars when writing about them.

P.S. - The Jag's 0-60mph time with the automatic transmission is a little under 7.1 seconds, not 8.

fxashun

The little Jag looks like any other small sedan out there to me. It has none of the "class" that would like to see in a Jag. You can tell it was adapted into it's "Jagness" instead of being built from the groundup that way.

kam66

Just curious, but how much did your 3.0 X-type cost? When I configure one with xenon, 6-CD changer, X1 and the X3 weather package the MSRP hits $42K and TMV is $39.5K. I can't really comment on how they drive as the cost put it out of the amount of money I was willing to spend on a car.

Of all the cars my wife and I test drove the IS300 fit our needs the best (plus its one of the few cars we could get/find with a manual transmission). While looks do play a part in a vehicle purchase, we were trying to find a car we were both comfortable behind the wheel in. Since my wife is 5'3" and I'm 6'2" this resulted in some cars being more comfortable for one or the other of us. The IS300 has enough headroom for me and the right driving position for my wife (as opposed to the Lincoln LS which required her to sit too close to the wheel to reach the pedals).

One other factor was the Toyota/Lexus track record on reliability. As no car is perfect (IS300 could use more trunk space, fold down rear seats, and get better gas mileage), it all comes down to what meets the purchasers priorities.

Oh, and for the record I can't remember off the top of my head what I put in my profile when I registered for this site 9 months ago.

KAM

jmess

I think there is nothing wrong with objective critism in a discussion and 90% of what we see here falls under that category.

I can understand why others may not want the same car I have.
So here are some things that could be better:

*I really wish my car had memory position settings for things like the seats. My wife is a lot shorter than I am and it takes me a while to find the sweet spot again. I appreciate cars that have this feature.

*I have a SportX and it doesn't have a remote hatch release lever/button inside but I have one for the fuel door?

*I wish the heated seats had a temp control vs a timer

*I wish I had an on/off button for the skid control system like I do for traction control

*I wish the intermittant wipers had a wider range of seed control from 0 and up.

*I sometimes wish I had a trip computer to play with

Some of these things I was aware of when I bought the car a few I discovered afterwards. Since none of my previous cars had these feature it is probably easier for me to live without them.

0-100 is good with the car so I don't worry too much about that. I think braking and handling are more important which the car does a good job with both.

So whats not perfect with a BMW, G35, Jag, Impala, or ?

jagboyxkr

I think that you made the perfect choice of a car for your and your wife's wants and needs. I agree with you 100% that "it all comes down to what meets the purchasers' priorities", and I think you also purchased a very fine car.

Your post was very honest and refreshingly written in a inoffensive fashion that simply states why you chose your car over others that did not suit all of your needs as well, without throwing negative commentary at the other cars. The IS300 is a very capable car, and I did not ever intend to give it negative, put-down postings. Because you were so amiable, I removed some of my "less tasteful" posts as to follow your good example. All posts should be that way - nice.

Besides, you may not be able to recall off the top of your head what you put in your profile, but bobbob911 gave me the impression that he just plain didn't know what he even wrote in his from the start. Enjoy your Lexus!
___________________

jmess-

I also found your post, like kam66's to be one that is interested in "keeping the peace", and thought it was very pleasant to read a post that again did not criticize other vehicles. I think most car owners have little "things that could be better" in their vehicles that could have been more conveniently designed, but it still sounds like you have a great car.

I can understand why people wouldn't want a Jaguar, too; but I do not understand people who must put down the cars that other people have. I like the Lexus IS300, and that is why I came to this board in the first place. I was just trying to correct bobbob911's misinformation about certain parts of my car vs. his. Have fun with your Lexus!

jmess

I have been trying to figure out how to get Hertz to give me a free upgrade to a Jag. I see them sitting in the Prestige Collection line up. Hertz surprised me a few weeks ago and gave me a Lincoln LS V8. Not a bad car but I was surprised at how good the SportX felt when I got home; smaller and more nimble. Driving rental cars during the week makes going home to the IS seem like a second/third/etc honeymoon.

bobbob911

Sheesh, why would even care what I put in my Profile? I put my location as Alabama, Canada - That didnt seem at all odd to you?

As for having seen an X-Type, I test drove all the cars in this class before deciding.

Chacun son gout...

lenscap

If you want to come across as inoffensive, you should consider some of the comments you've made, particularly on the X-Type board.

You lose credibility when you say you're 16 years old and your daddy bought you a $40,000 car after swim practice. It doesn't help when you mention you went for a ride to the airport where your daddy keeps his plane. Why don't you just come right out and tell us how much your daddy earns per year? It seems like you're dying to tell.

Most, if not all, of the people here worked hard for the money to pay for their IS 300s. And they made a big decision in buying one. You didn't have to do a thing for your Jag.

If you like cars and want to discuss them, including the IS 300, that's great. I don't mean to offend you, as your opinions are valued, but it would be appreciated if you keep the showing off to yourself.

vocus

I was in the dealership the other day getting my 2002 Jetta serviced. The car is a pretty loaded 1.8T model, and I am 23 years old. Every penny that goes into the car comes from my pocket though. Someone asked what kinda car I had, and said something like, "it's nice of you to bring your parents' car in for service for them". I corrected them REALLY fast. I work damn hard for the money to pay for that car, and other stuff too. People like JagBoyXJR make people like myself look like they get all their money from mommy and daddy. Some of us do work for a living.

And furthermore, XJR Boy, GROW UP!

kam66

All,

Wife and I picked up the IS300 from the dealer on Saturday. Black manual with black Leather/Escaine interior, Sunroof, LSD, Heated seats. For some reason we also got wheel locks, trunk mat and cargo net (wasn't part of the negotiations). Final price was $29,600 + TTL ($31,680 out the door).

Can't tell you how it drives yet as it's the wife's car and I'm in the process of finishing up my Master's program. I can say the wife sure seems happy with it, although now she's worried about where to park it at work. I guess she's afraid someone will mistake it for a Corolla and put a ding in the door...LOL (that's for you Hvan).

Maybe this coming weekend I'll get a chance to see how it handles.

KAM

wale_bate1

Noticed that the Sportcross board has been dormant for a while, so I thought I'd bust in over here.

This little gem caught my eye in a press release last year, and I haven't been able to shake it. Also in the race for my cash are the 325i wagon and the X-Type 2.5 (far too pretty not to make the list).

Anybody on this side a SportX owner with some insight into my upcoming decision-making process? Red with power/escaine pkg intrigues me most...

kmac230

I just got a 2002 silver IS 300 and think it is a great set of wheels. My one complaint is the clear lenses on the rear lights. I am thinking of having them either (illegally) tinted so they look like the smoked lenses, or having the metal area beneath the lense painted black to provide contrast to the silver. Has anyone tried either of these steps? Any comments/opinions are welcome.

nyccarguy

I know on the darker colored IS300s (red, Black, Graphite...) the tail lights are tinted and I think it looks much better (The tail lights are one of my biggest complaints when it comes to the IS300. See if maybe a dealer will do a swap for you or if you can buy them from Lexus.

bobbob911

Otherwise, you can buy OEM (From Japan) taillight covers. Have a look here:

http://www.rodmillenstore.com/is_300/tailight.htm

nyccarguy

kam66

Last night was the first chance I had to ride in the wife's new IS300 we picked up last weekend. She walked in the door from work and I asked her if she wanted to take me out for a spin. Ended up taking a 30-40 mile trip through the hill country on narrow two lane roads.

Car has firm, supportive seats, although I'd like the bottom cushion to be a little bit longer. That said they fit my wife perfectly (difference between 6'2" and 5'3"). Engine is very smooth, with good power delivery (much better than any car we've owned before). Roads we were driving on tended to be pretty coarse so there was a bit of tire noise but wind noise was non-existent. Found out the coin holders tended to buzz when filled with quarters, so we'll probably keep them in the ash tray.

Overall we are quite happy with the car. My wife's never been overly enamored with driving (more of a means to get where she was going), but I could see she was really enjoying it. She ended up looking forward to the sweepers and switchbacks, almost never hitting the brakes to slow down on entry and "rolling on the throttle" as we exited.

As we were heading back to the house I told her it reminded me of an old Acura commercial where the husband can't get enough of the car and to cover up the fact he'd been out driving he would spray himself with perfume and smear lipstick on his collar. Can't wait till we get past 1K miles and can see what it will do.

KAM

riez

kam66... Is your wife's IS300 an automatic or manual? LSD? Sedan or Sportcross?

blazyr7

So I just read the past 100 or so posts and sit here wondering why so many who dislike the IS300 spend their time on this forum rationalizing why it must be a poor car in comparison to ....insert G35, MB, A4, 3 series, CTS (dear lord it's a GM) or whatever else strikes them.

I do agree with the one post who said thanks because it helps keep the car more exclusive. I think many a MB owner understands that idea.

I plan to wrap up a deal for a blue 5 speed IS this week after driving most everything out there. Hands down I see the IS as the most polished, fun to drive, sport/lux out there, if you want the sport side.

The powerplant balances well to the package. Could you crank up the HP? Sure. Many tuners do and in fact TRD does radical things with the Altezza. Does 0-60 in 6.7 in this car really sound slow? Ask the Mitsu Eclipse owner who hits the same.

Throw the IS around and the suspension gives great response. Drive over nasty American roads and it rides smooth. Honda knew how well the double wishbone works years ago, so do grand prix cars. And somehow, even with performance tires on 17's the ride stays quiet? Sweet.

For those in the market, reading these boards. Go drive some cars and decide what you like. You make the payment each month after all. And when you get your ride, enjoy it. Hang with other owners who enjoy it. Why waste your time hating another?

is300tm7

amen!

kam66

Wife's IS300 is manual sedan with LSD and Dunlop SP9000 17s. We'd had some difficulty finding one with the options we wanted so we had to order it from the factory. We'd originally started looking for a new vehicle last summer (drove just about everything on the market) but couldn't quite make up our minds (also had a lot of fun taking different cars out). At that time we looked at the IS300 and liked the handling but weren't overly enamored with the automatic transmission and wrote it off.

In December I went to test drive a manual LS from a dealer in San Antonio which is located next to the Lexus dealer. After a test drive of an auto LS (manual's battery was dead after sitting on the lot for who knows how long) I wandered over to the Lexus dealer and took a manual IS300 out. I felt the manual transmission transformed the car and set up appointments to come back with my wife so she could take both the LS & IS out. After about ten minutes in the IS300 she had a grin all over her face and we were pretty set on getting one. Only problem we had was the dealership seemed to have a hard time quoting us a price, putting off the issue every time we asked what it would run.

KAM

riez

kam66... Good choice. Will certainly let you get the most out of the IS300's engine and suspension as well as the most fun, too! I bet she is a blast to drive hard.

tgravo2

Anyone know if any changes will be made to the 03 IS sedan. I will be in the market for one around Jan-Feb 03, looking at a 5-spd. Thanks for any info.

hunter001

5-speed ?

Both Automatics and Manual are 5-speeds.

Later...AH

vocus

You know he means manual. Most people have the habit of just saying "5-speed".