Older Acura TLs

PeterUbers

None taken -- thanks for clarifying. Let the TL games continue!!

puberdee

Could someone tell me if I can expect to get a 2001 TL with Navigation for invoice or close to invoice pricing? Thank you.

PeterUbers

At least here in the midwest, TL w/ Nav and w/o Nav are definitely going for anywhere from 1000 over to 100 dollars over invoice. If you're in the Illinois/Chicagoland area, try Continental Acura -- they're great people to do business with and they're rollin' out the deals (boy, do I sound like a car salesman or what?!)

dougsilver

I was one of those shopping around for a 2000 back in fall of 2000 when the 1999s were still on the lot. Other posters at the time, including myself, were bemoaning the fact that you were lucky if you could get perhaps $300 off the sticker price. The "line" from ALL the Acura dealers at the time was how the TL was "value priced" no-haggling (since the sticker was reduced several $thousand from the 1998--never mind that the 1998 was obviously overstickered). There was not even much of a discount on the 1999s that were still sitting while the 2000s trickled in.

Amazing what a difference a year makes. Now it looks like you can just about name your price for the TL. So much for no-haggling value pricing.

sobers

nothing else ..!

dougsilver

Except that my observations at the time were that Honda was, in part, creating the high demand by holding back on the supply. Of course I realized that, like every other car in the market, once the initial frenzy subsided, pricing would revert to the typical invoice+ situation. What cracked me up was the absolute insistence of the various sales people and sales managers that no way would this happen--"they were going to a value price/no haggle philosophy just like Saturn and we better get used to it". Yeah right.

Which brings me to the current frenzy that is being stirred up on the imminent TL-S (discussed elsewhere). Various discussion boards (e.g., Acura-TL.com) are full of folks that are just chomping at the bit to be the first to get their S. I hope they don't sucked into paying a premium for features that will be standard on the following year's base mode.

PeterUbers

You also have to take into consideration (regarding people about to be sucked into paying ..) that the acura-tl.com forum is home to a handfull of people that regularly post and express their strong interest in the TL Type S (as is the 2002 Type S forum here on Edmund's). I'm still of the lot that believes that there really isn't much demand for this car, and a lot of it is due to the economy, as well as .. and more importantly, Acura's paltry effort to advertise this new model. I also understand that Acura is trying to lower the age brackets of their target market -- they want to begin to cater to the IS300 crowd with this new TL Type S, as well as the BMW 3-series crowd. Perhaps by slipping some info. here and there around the country about the TL Type S (as well as leaving MOST dealers absolutely clueless about the Type S's arrival .. as mine is), they may begin to attract only the enthusiasts FIRST who are internet sav vy, and more prone to being members of such internet car forums. After all, the best way to get word of mouth advertising started is to deliver the vehicle to people who they KNOW will fall absolutely in love with the car from the minute they receive their ordered vehicle. People like this .. and this is just human nature, tend to exaggerate the performance and capabilities of their new vehicle -- and this is EXACTLY what acura and any other manufacturer would love to happen. Now, I'm not saying that anyone would exaggerate .. or even NEED to exaggerate the features of the TL Type S, I'm just speaking from a marketing point of view.

dougsilver

I know there are a whole class of folks (I am partly in this class) who, the minute after they buy a car that they have been researching and waiting for, start studying what improvements will be offered on the next model. What amazes me is the number posts I have seen on the Edmunds site in the past where someone is ready to trade his/her one- or two-year old car in on the next model or some different car entirely.

These folks seem to be economic dunces or else they have so much money they don't care. They seem to long for some desireable model for which they must have paid a premium, then take a soaking when they trade or sell it one or two years later, only to pay another premium for the next desireable model. The auto manufacturers are experts at being able to pull off this type of consumer manipulation.

Back to Acura, their marketing strategy is perplexing. They were actually the first Asian marque to try and break into the luxury market with introduction of the Legend (back in 1986?). Then after years of establishing the name but without any real innovations, they let Lexus and even Infiniti one-up them. Then what do they do, they DROP the Legend!?!?

Seems like they are trying to get back in the game but even then I'm sure they angered some of their loyal customers. For example, lowering the price of the TL in 1999 by several $thousand to attract potential ES300 buyers was brilliant marketing but I'm sure those who bought 1998 TLs were not very happy.

Since the TL is somewhat underpriced (or more accurately the ES300 is overpriced), Acura has to do something to bump the price up. So the TL-S is established at about $3 thousand more at little cost to Acura (how much can it cost to tweak a few more horses out of the same engine). Then, next year, the features of the TL-S become standard on the base model TL--along with the higher price. Mission accomplished.

tlswhiz

I agree. It's all part of the autmotive, proverbial "circle of life." And the only lives i'm talkin' about are the exec's at Acura.

I'm not sure they dropped the legend completely. This may be an acura urban legend (if there is such a thing -- if not, there is now).. but I've spoken with many salepeople who claim the "RL" in their 3.5L V6 flagship is actually and acronym for "Real Legend" and that in some parts of Canada, the RL (introduced in '96?) actually bore the embroidered "Real Legend" nameplate on the dashboard. Go figure if it's a legend..

The legend was a smashing success, I'll have to agree. It's developed a sort of cult following, or iconography of sorts (joining the ranks of the '96 Impala SS and the Buick Grand National). The value of some vehicles with under 40K miles is just astonishing -- 16,000!! But hey, it was revolutionary in 91 when they redesigned it and then when they intro-ed the coupe with the 220hp five speed in 92.

I totally agree with you about trading in a one or two year old car for a new TL-S -- talk about negative equity! Seriously, these people must have some money to burn, or perhaps the stash they saved up initially for the ES300 will cover the hit they're about to take on the TL trade-in for the TL Type S. At any rate, I'd rather salivate for three more years and wait for the introduction of some more "super" sedans from other badeges (i.e. Lexus, Infiniti) before I sell the deed on the farm.

tlswhiz

http://members.nbci.com/babylexus/

At this address, here's what you do: Place your pointer over the "Import Sedans" Category, and then click on Acura TL Type S. There are four vid clips from Motorweek's weekly tv car news show. I must give credit to the host of this site -- please email him with thanks if you like it!

svec7186

whats the best deal someone got on an acura tl /wo nav on the NY/NJ area? please give dealership name and phone

thanks

ukrick

Has anyone heard any details regarding MSRP? I heard the horsepower was increased to something like 260hp! Any other new functionality?

tlswhiz

you're outta the loop bud,

Go to: 2002 Acura TL Type S -- a forum on Townhall ... plus, I currently own one.

tlswhiz

These are pics of the new TL Type S as well as they new 2002 TL's:

http://angus.home.texas.net/2002_TL/

There is a SIDE BY SIDE comparison of the 2001 and 2002 TL .. NOT type S models..

many people find this pic very interesting.

bcjacob1

I have a '00 TL w/ Nav. It seems that my system is approx 100-200 feet off. For example, I will be at the intersection of 2 streets and the display will tell me that I an 100-200 feet away from the intersection. I've tried adjusting the calibration several times but the prob keeps hapening.

Help! Any thoughts?

boe_d

The issue is not a real fault of the GPS. The government restricts the acuracy to prevent smart missiles and the like from using GPS. GPS standards are actually set for within 1 block accuracy - I don't know the exact measurement. If you are in the military you can get an accurate GPS

ruski

I thought the government has lifted the military restriction on the GPS.

BTW, If needed a smart missile can be homed in on your cell phone. Ask Russians how they do that.

msu79gt82

The old restrictions limiting the public accuracy of home GPS systems has been lifted. What do the specifications claim the accuracy to be? If they are within spec, I suppose there is nothing you can. If not, have the system checked.

dougsilver

If the worst of your troubles is that you can't find an intersection when you are within 100-200 feet, perhaps you need something more than a GPS

hunter001

From what I understand, the restriction by the Government was lifted only for non-sensitive areas....for the sensitive areas like in-and-around a military installation, the inaccuracy purposely built in by the government (about 300 ft ?), still stands.

In regular (non-sensitive) areas, the Navigation accuracy is about 10 feet....also this system is terrific in thick fog or pitch darkness or in un-familiar terrain...when it pin-points your location and gives a countdown before your turn approaches...like 1000ft....900ft....800ft....600ft....400ft....200ft....100ft...you just cannot miss your turn (in thick fog/pitch darkness/unfamiliar areas), unless you are blind....

Later...AH

ezaircon4jc

I am an Air Traffic Controller. We just had a breifing on GPS . There are 2 sensitivities, one military and the other civilian. The civilian version is PURPOSEFULLY inaccurate (for obvious reasons). I believe the built in error is ~300ft.

shoparound2

You can get TL at or close to invoice price from Brunswick and Ocean Acura in NJ.

hunter001

I would modify your statement to:

The Civilian and the Military Nav operates pretty much the same everywhere (it was not so till a year back) except for sensitive areas, where the civilian version has a built in error of ~300ft.

I say that because, the GPS Navigation in my 3.2TL, never ever misses a turn....the built-in in-accuracy at best is a few feet (<10ft ?) and while driving, the 10ft in-accuracy cannot be noticed....with a 300ft error, I would have been missing every street, turn and highway exit, I would suppose ?!!! But possibly, if I were to drive around in a sensitive area that has say, a Nuclear Power plant, the 300ft in-accuracy would kick in....never experienced it however..

Later...AH

jeffvaline

The GPS system does NOT have areas of intentionally greater/lesser accuracy. There is a relationship between GPS accuracy & where you are at this moment on the earth, but that is because of the number of satellites & their geometry relative to you. The GPS satellites are not geostationary, and even if you stay in one spot, the satellites are moving relative to you, and the geometry & number of visible satillites will change. There are two signals transmitted by each GPS satellite, one available only to the military, and one for civilians. In the past, the civilian signal was also degraded to reduce accuracy to a spec of approx +/-300 ft. That degradation has been removed, and the civilian spec is now approx +/- 90 ft, although you should typically experience much better than that. The military signals are better still.

Geometry and availability of satellites is the key to GPS. If you are in an "urban canyon" (tall buildings all around) that block the satellite signals, accuracy will be poor. It takes a minimum of 3 satellites to do 2-D positioning, but 4 or more is MUCH better. In a fairly open environment, you should be seeing 6-10 satellites at all times, and the accuracy will typically be +/- 20-30 ft.

Do not confuse the accuracy of the navigation & mapping software with the accuracy of GPS. If the number of available satellites drops, the software may put more emphasis on the inputs from other sources, such as the speedo, the steering angles, etc. Mapping accuracy may degrade fairly quickly.

For more GPS info, try:

http://www.trimble.com/gps/index.htm

A former GPS Engineer

lgtltd

This car moves!!... and this was the TL not the TLS. Of course the engine was very smooth and responsive, but I was particularly impressed with the transmission. It responds immediately to throttle input and shifts are imperceptible, noticed only by the increased rpm's. This car is QUIET. Gone is the wind whistle from the side mirrors(noticed on test drive of a pre-owned '00 model). I'm not real crazy about the rims, TLS rims look much better.

I want one, but do not want to pay MSRP. Dealer has had 8 cars for three days now and has yet to sell one. He told me I would be the first. I am beginning to believe some of the earlier posters who say that demand for this car isn't going to be as great as we are made to believe. I'm not in a hurry and going to wait to see if they will come down off of MSRP.

robnis

Interesting, it sounds like the Acura (typically) wants to gouge the public. Rather than settle for an appropriate profit. I have the TL-S first on my list but if the dealerships play their games again, I can easily go to my #2 vehicle. Hey, I can even see what the new A4, Jaguar X, and ES300 are like then!

Can you tell me where you are located? I am near Harrisburg, PA

hunter001

Jeffvaline:

Your explanation sounds reasonable and pretty much jells with what I experience on a daily basis...thanks for the link.

Later...AH

hunter001

If Acura were to come out with an All-wheel-drive sport-wagon (similar to the BMW 540i sport-wagon),with the VTM-4 AWD system and maybe a limited-slip-differential and the Navigation system, I would trade my beloved 2000 TL up in a second.

But such wonderful ideas never seem to occur to the powers-that-be.

At least Acura/Honda is coming out with a Sedan/Coupe on a stretched Honda S2000 RWD platform....should provide some desperately needed competition for the BMW 3-series and maybe the Lexus IS series. Wonder what took them so long...especially since the S2000 was available for the past couple of years...

Later...AH

scholl

I'm going to be buying a TL soon and wonder (not having had leather seats before) - would there be an appreciable difference in interior heat if I bought the silver or the black exterior (both have ebony interior - I definitely like the ebony more than the taupe). Yes, I understand that it has a good air conditioner - however, I live in sunny Southern CA and am curious. Checked out the 2002 and am glad I waited - even though I'll be buying base TL - the minor changes are worth it. I think the rims and headlights are nicer.

svec7186

just got a new 2001 tl for $26000 for paramus acura in NJ.

2 questions:
1) what octane is needed? the salesman said 91.

2) i read in another newsgroup that the tl has paint flaking problems. any news about paint problems?

thanks