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Has anybody here driven the 2.2L Alero with the 5 Speed? They just started arriving at dealers in November. I have been trying to dealer locate one, but they are selling fast. I ordered mine on Friday, so I have to wait a few weeks. Can't wait to pick it up!
Why doesn't GM make more cars with Manual transmission?
Don't make the 5-speeds cause there aren't many people that want them. That said, at least GM bought Getrag so they have good 5-speed in what they do sell.
I've heard of the Getrag, but don't know anything about it. What makes it so great? Did GM buy this company, or just the rights to the transmission?
Regarding manual vs automatic transmission...after reading the many postings at Edmunds, I'd have to think that there are more people that prefer manuals than the manual cars themselves. It seems that I can always find people at Edmunds lamenting the lack of cars with available manual tranny.
It also seems that more foreign manufacturers offer more manuals than domestic companies. During a recent trip to Germany, I had to drool over the fact that most cars, even the largest mercedes, had manual transmissions. I had to laugh at the car rental counter in Frankfurt when an American couple was griping because they could not rent a car with automatic transmission.
Most cars in Europe have manual transmission because the average engine displacement is about 1.3l. High-end cars, the only ones that make it to these shores, are mostly equipped with auto transmissions there as well. For instance, all V8 Mercedes have only one transmission available: automatic.
I agree with some of what you say regarding european engines being smaller and higher gas prices. However, fuel economy for these smaller engines is not any better than, say a GM 3.1 or 3.4 V-6. I could not get any better than 25 MPG on any of my rental cars in Europe. Granted, there was some autobahn driving, but I was still disappointed in the mileage.
There is an element out there that prefers the performance/experience of the manual tranny. GM seems to hold back in this area, only offering the 6+ cylinder manual tranny for the camaro, vette, trans am, and now the Caddy CTS. Of course, you can get it on the 4 cyl. economy cars. However, foreign companies offer the manual on a host of v-6 sedans.
As a result, I am forced to consider the caddy CTS, if I can hold out (I need the 4 doors for a bundle of joy expected in January) until the early spring. The only drawback to that car (that I can see) is the small trunk. Alero trunk is 14.6 cubic feet, vs 12.8 for the CTS. Imagine that...Alero with a bigger trunk than a caddy?!
Last time I went to Europe, I was "upgraded" from a Fiat Marea to a Toyota Avensis (somewhere between the Corolla and the Camry), sort of going from a Chevy Cavalier to a Saturn L. It had a 100HP 1.6 I4 with a manual transmission; its mileage was about the same as on my Alero V6: 23 city, 30 highway. But that's where the similitudes ended: the performance sucked!
About European V6-equipped cars being available with manual transmission (the bigger the engine, the much smaller the volume), if gas costs $7 per gallon it would be important for most people to get each MPG.
However, as for the performance and economy, IMO, in an engine with over 200lb.ft of torque it's academic whether it has manual or automatic.
But it's definetely a turn off to me to see elegant sedans with 2l I4 engines! For gosh's sake, Mercedes sells there an E200 and BMW, a 520! :^P
I forgot one thing about Europe's small cars. While in Europe, it occurred to me how difficult it would be to park with a Chevy Impala! Compared to the average car, my Volvo wagon was huge and it was hard to find a large enough parking space. An Alero would be a good-sized car in Germany.
First thing I always notice coming off a plane is how small the cars are over there. It really is quite a big difference. My uncle and aunt thought my old Grand Prix was huge when I picked them up at the airport last year.
Alero's sold in Europe must all be 4 cyl models. Can't imagine the V6s would sell well.
It would be interesting to see how the v-6 would do in Europe. The 3.4 mileage is about as good as the 2.4 or 2.2. However, marketing bias may doom it. "ya just don't sell a bloody v-6 over here"
Problem is, in many European countries, you are taxed at a higher rate if you have an engine over 2.0L. That's why you see so many 1.9L engines over there. 2.2L or 2.4L would probably be bad enough. Taxes on a 3.4L would be killer.
That's right, in many countries there's a surtax for engines above 2l, but it's flat, i.e., once it's above 2l, it doesn't increase proportionally to the displacement. Thus, whether it's 2.4 or 3.4, the surtax is the same.
The capacity of many governments to ransack their citizens with taxes and their complacency always amazes me! And yet, there are still people on these shores that praise the European way of life... :^P
Good point. Now there is an example of a useless, idiot tax. Although it sounds like a bit outdated, perhaps it serves to function as protectionism...keeping larger American-size engines out of their country?
Evandro, you are right about the people here that praise the "european way". Any time they want to argue against something (private health care, right to gun ownership, size of cars) they always say we are "behind" Europeans. Well, when I think of European things such as these, I also tend to think of a "behind".
There is a lot to like about Europe and it's not all bad. The main thing I dislike is the heavy regulation and taxation. Things are so expensive over there. We in Canada always complain because taxes here are higher than the U.S., but really it's not near as bad as Europe.
I love visiting, but I don't think I could live there
I have a question regarding switching the daytime running lamps. I really like the amber color daytime running lamps in the intrigue and other GM cars.
Do you think I can replace the white ones on the Alero with amber bulbs? I have looked closely at the Intrigue/Alero bulbs (through the headlight housing) and they appear very different. I am also curious as to how this might effect headlight performance.
I expect to take delivery on a new Alero in the next few weeks, and think it would look really cool with Amber lights. Any advice would be appreciated.
I just got back from a trip to Lake Placid (my first "all highway" tank full. I have a 2.4l 5-sp. GL2 with 4,500 miles. I only got 27 mpg at a steady 70 mph. In y'all's collective experience, is this the best I may expect, or does it get better when the engine is less green? I got better mileage when I rented an Intrigue and filled it with family for a trip to Maine!
My friend has a 99 GL2 (2.4) that averages between 27 and 30 MPG. I don't think there's much difference in mileage between the 2.4 and 3.4, so you are right about the Intrigue mileage. I will let you know my mileage with my 2.2L/5 speed manual when I get it.
I was thinking of breaking out of our smaller car lease yesterday so I tested a 2.2L Alero. Wonderful engine! Very smooth and peppy. I can see why GM is moving all it's 4 cyl cars into this engine. Anyway, the penalty for early termination was way too high so I canned the idea. Maybe come spring I will consider the Alero again.
Anyone looking for a decent mid-size range car for a great price would be sill not to look at the Alero though. Current lease/finance rates make it a real value for a fun car.
Was the 2.2 Alero with a manual or automatic transmission? I have driven both, but really liked the manual. My only beef with the 2.2 automatic was the lack of low end torque. The manual gearing seemed to compensate perfectly.
It was an auto. They only had 1 5-speed, but it was sold so I couldn't drive it. I thought the auto was fine though. 5-speed is obviously the better choice if you like the off the line performance.
I am anxiously awaiting delivery of my mine. I ordered it 2 weeks ago, so I expect it in 2 to 3 weeks. It may be delayed due to the long holiday UAW takes. I'll keep you posted, but I don't expect to put many miles on this car. Our main vehicle is a minivan, along with a pickup. It will be nice to drive something fun to drive.
About where do you live? I just got a call from a dealer in Grand Rapids Michigan. For anybody in the Michigan area, Grand Olds just received a black alero GX sedan, with sport package and 5 speed manual. Sticker is $17,025 and he will let it go for 16,300. Plus, there is a $1000 rebate if you finance yourself or pay cash. I wish was close enough, because it would be in my driveway tomorrow. It's a bit of a trip from PA.
Live just outside Toronto ON. Buying cars in the U.S. makes no sense for us as they cost more there due to the strong US$. The auto GX I was looking at would for for about C$20K which is about U$13K at current f/x rates.
Let me know when you P/U the car. Love to hear your impressions. The Alero would be a second car for us also, likely mostly driven by my wife.
is anyone having problems with their driver side mirror vibrating at higher speeds? mine has been replaced 4 times and it still vibrates! it did have a tsb. but it hasn't worked yet! this last time the dealer said gm asked if i have a bugflector. well i do and gm said that's what is causing my vibration! i don't believe it. i had that bugflector on for 4 months before my first complaint. i wouldn't have driven that long with a vibrating mirror. and the passenger side is still the original and never vibrates. it is so annoying-you can't see anything behind you; it's just one big blur. otherwise i love the alero. so i'm going to take it off myself and see what happens. if it is the bugflector-fine. but i don't think so. anyone???
That seems a bit odd, to blame the bug deflector. What kind of deflector do you have? Is it the semi-rigid PVC, or a mini-bra with the raised vinyl deflectors?
When the mirror is replaced, does it work awhile and then vibrate after a few weeks?
I've noticed a persistent vibration of the driver's mirror at highway speeds. It's never been as bad yours seems to be, because I could still read the cars' behind me license plates.
It always intrigued me because if I'd try to shake the mirror with my hands, it would be firm, not loose.
I've driven a number of different GM vehicles over the years with vibrating side mirrors. This is particularly a problem with power mirrors. The mechanical parts that hold the mirror in position are mostly made of plastic/vinyl, so are not very rigid. It is definitely possible that a bug deflector could cause the mirrors to vibrate; it disrupts the air flow over the vehicle. However, our Alero does not have a deflector and the mirrors still shake a little, not so bad that it bothers me though.
the deflector is a ventshade-solid pvc type. no, each time the mirror is replaced it vibrates on the way home from the dealer. the tsb apparently was to replace the interior parts mlm4 talks about. the last time they said they accidentally installed "canadian" mirror parts. well this time they (and gm) blamed the deflector. we'll see when i take it off just to show them! when you can't see cars behind you because it shakes so bad, then there's a problem that needs fixed!
Hi y'all, just a simple question for all Alero fans. Is this 3.4L V6 the same engine that's in Chevy Impala? I started reading townhall messages from #800 and people mentioned that Pontiac GrandAM's shares the same V6 engine, but no one mentioned about Impala. I test drove the Impala and found it to be very comfortable car(spacewise it's HUGE), just thought I throw in another vehicle consideration for those people shopping between Alero/Malibu.
The engine is a workhorse for many indeed. I think it's the most common V6 that GM uses now with the 3.8L close behind. Both are pretty reliable and smooth.
Well, we did our first bit of winter driving in the Alero this past week - about 300km of freezing rain and/or sleet. I have to say I'm very impressed with the way this car with Michelin Arctic Alpins handled the road conditions, the traction control system kicked in a couple of times so we knew to reduce speed because traction wasn't quite as good as we thought.
Braking was solid throughout. Altogether very reassuring, and the Arctic Alpins handled 2" of snow quite well also, although they do feel a bit "squirmy" on snow. Not so on wet or even icy pavement, but that's what they're designed for.
One thing I did find, however, was that I had to put the defroster on max. speed and max. heat to keep the top of the windshield and the right side from icing up. It wasn't that cold out, so you had to open the front windows a crack to keep from roasting yourself.
Glad to hear that the Alero is performing well. Let us know about future experiences with the defrost situation. Hopefully you won't always need to set the heat and fan on HIGH all the time...that would be rather noisey.
Since I have never spent much time in a vehicle with traction control...how do you know when it engages?
Does the traction control apply the brakes, or does it reduce engine speed to control the spin? I test drove an Alero a few weeks ago with the traction control on. I tried to spin the tires, but no luck. I almost thought the car was a bit weak, but then I turned off the traction control, and I was squeeling the tires at will!
The traction control on the Alero cuts the power any time one wheel spins. It may and will come on in conjunction with the ABS as one tire skids on slick surface. The dash traction control light comes on when your power is being cut.
One drawback is when you are trying to make quick acceleration to avoid another vehicle and it cuts in. It takes longer to drop back to normal than it did to engage. Scary!!.
It's about like ABS. Not a real improvement for an experienced driver. ABS vehicles take longer to stop than non ABS vehicles. They are somewhat effective on glare ice, but I wind up pumping the brake pedal as I always have.
If the wheels are spinning get off the accelerator, unless you need the feel and smell of where the rubber meets the road.
Just opinions:
Also I have not disabled the day time running lamps yet, nor the automatic lights on and off. I'm grown up now and feel as though I should be able to make those decisions about when it's dark or not.
I'm not taking on the ABS as I am the DRL but in some situations ABS is a hinderence. And your right you can't pump the brakes. But after driving more than 1,500,000 miles with the stopping mode to pump brakes on ice and snow, it's difficult to stop an do what the government wants.
"There's been a lot of concern lately about the anti-lock braking system in the newer vehicles," said Janie Harris, traffic safety specialist for the Texas Agricultural Extension Service. "The manufacturers of the vehicles feel this is a very good safety feature, however there has been some controversy about the braking system, and whether they actually work or not."
The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety has issued statements claiming anti-lock brakes do not provide a substantially shorter stopping distance on dry pavement nor have they reduced the number of crashes in vehicle insurance claims.
General Motors has released statements saying that their anti- lock brakes will give shorter stopping distances with the exception of gravel roads where stopping distances may be longer, but the driver will still benefit from increased steerability.
Coonhound answered some of your questions, but to add to that, my understanding is that the Alero's traction control system does a combination of things to reduce wheelspin:
(1) reduce engine speed, by reducing the fuel input or (at lower speeds) shifting to a higher gear (2) applying brakes to the spinning wheel
On other topics...
With regards to ABS - I've seen fairly recent test results by Car and Driver, MotorWeek, some government bodies, etc. for several makes/models of cars. The results are pretty much what you'd expect: on loose surfaces where there's better traction underneath (sand or gravel on pavement or packed dirt, snow on pavement or packed dirt) LOCKED wheels will dig through the loose stuff and slow you down on the higher traction surface underneath.
In all other conditions ABS provides shorter stopping distances and, as dindak pointed out, you can still steer your car. I'm not sure how many people take advantage of that latter point in panic situations.
Whenever I drive in heavily urbanized areas, which is where most people live and work these days, I'm amazed at how little stopping distance people allow while driving. When the distance between vehicles is only one car length, ABS is not going to make any difference. Similarly, if people are driving too fast for the road conditions, ABS will not make any difference. If vehicles hit each other or go off the road 5 mph slower, that wont show up in any "incidence" stats now will it?
After having an Alero for 3 years, I concluded that its TC prioritizes more going straight than avoiding spin. I thought it was good, because I never found myself in scary situations when merging at an intersection, for instance. I really appreciated it limiting the spin of the wheel at the inner side of the turn while still allowing efficient power on the other wheel.
I've also noticed that it only limits engine power after applying the brakes for a couple of seconds and the wheels still tended to spin. Top notch system, if you ask me!
About the ABS, one cannot pump the brakes several times per second independently for each wheel. IOW, the statement "I can do better" is plain bogus.
Just today I had to brake over uneven pavement with only one side of the car and it remained going in a straight line. Try that manually!
My problem is the automatic door locks don't open when you press the button. I have to do it manually. any quick fixes? e-mail me thee_thor_99@excite.com
Comments
Why doesn't GM make more cars with Manual transmission?
Regarding manual vs automatic transmission...after reading the many postings at Edmunds, I'd have to think that there are more people that prefer manuals than the manual cars themselves. It seems that I can always find people at Edmunds lamenting the lack of cars with available manual tranny.
It also seems that more foreign manufacturers offer more manuals than domestic companies. During a recent trip to Germany, I had to drool over the fact that most cars, even the largest mercedes, had manual transmissions. I had to laugh at the car rental counter in Frankfurt when an American couple was griping because they could not rent a car with automatic transmission.
As for Getrag, GM Europe bought the company a few years ago and it was a good thing as GM North America was struggling with it's manual transmissions.
There is an element out there that prefers the performance/experience of the manual tranny. GM seems to hold back in this area, only offering the 6+ cylinder manual tranny for the camaro, vette, trans am, and now the Caddy CTS. Of course, you can get it on the 4 cyl. economy cars. However, foreign companies offer the manual on a host of v-6 sedans.
As a result, I am forced to consider the caddy CTS, if I can hold out (I need the 4 doors for a bundle of joy expected in January) until the early spring. The only drawback to that car (that I can see) is the small trunk. Alero trunk is 14.6 cubic feet, vs 12.8 for the CTS. Imagine that...Alero with a bigger trunk than a caddy?!
About European V6-equipped cars being available with manual transmission (the bigger the engine, the much smaller the volume), if gas costs $7 per gallon it would be important for most people to get each MPG.
However, as for the performance and economy, IMO, in an engine with over 200lb.ft of torque it's academic whether it has manual or automatic.
But it's definetely a turn off to me to see elegant sedans with 2l I4 engines! For gosh's sake, Mercedes sells there an E200 and BMW, a 520!
:^PAlero's sold in Europe must all be 4 cyl models. Can't imagine the V6s would sell well.
:^PEvandro, you are right about the people here that praise the "european way". Any time they want to argue against something (private health care, right to gun ownership, size of cars) they always say we are "behind" Europeans. Well, when I think of European things such as these, I also tend to think of a "behind".
I love visiting, but I don't think I could live there
;^)Do you think I can replace the white ones on the Alero with amber bulbs? I have looked closely at the Intrigue/Alero bulbs (through the headlight housing) and they appear very different. I am also curious as to how this might effect headlight performance.
I expect to take delivery on a new Alero in the next few weeks, and think it would look really cool with Amber lights. Any advice would be appreciated.
Anyone looking for a decent mid-size range car for a great price would be sill not to look at the Alero though. Current lease/finance rates make it a real value for a fun car.
How are you liking the car so far?
What are you currently driving?
Let me know when you P/U the car. Love to hear your impressions. The Alero would be a second car for us also, likely mostly driven by my wife.
When the mirror is replaced, does it work awhile and then vibrate after a few weeks?
It always intrigued me because if I'd try to shake the mirror with my hands, it would be firm, not loose.
Anyway, it was never so bad to annoy me.
Braking was solid throughout. Altogether very reassuring, and the Arctic Alpins handled 2" of snow quite well also, although they do feel a bit "squirmy" on snow. Not so on wet or even icy pavement, but that's what they're designed for.
One thing I did find, however, was that I had to put the defroster on max. speed and max. heat to keep the top of the windshield and the right side from icing up. It wasn't that cold out, so you had to open the front windows a crack to keep from roasting yourself.
Since I have never spent much time in a vehicle with traction control...how do you know when it engages?
Does the traction control apply the brakes, or does it reduce engine speed to control the spin?
I test drove an Alero a few weeks ago with the traction control on. I tried to spin the tires, but no luck. I almost thought the car was a bit weak, but then I turned off the traction control, and I was squeeling the tires at will!
One drawback is when you are trying to make quick acceleration to avoid another vehicle and it cuts in. It takes longer to drop back to normal than it did to engage. Scary!!.
It's about like ABS. Not a real improvement for an experienced driver. ABS vehicles take longer to stop than non ABS vehicles. They are somewhat effective on glare ice, but I wind up pumping the brake pedal as I always have.
If the wheels are spinning get off the accelerator, unless you need the feel and smell of where the rubber meets the road.
Just opinions:
Also I have not disabled the day time running lamps yet, nor the automatic lights on and off. I'm grown up now and feel as though I should be able to make those decisions about when it's dark or not.
As for DRLs, they save lives in sunshine and in darkness. Disconnect them if you wish, but people will see you better with them on.
"There's been a lot of concern lately about the anti-lock braking system in the newer vehicles," said Janie Harris, traffic safety specialist for the Texas Agricultural Extension Service. "The manufacturers of the vehicles feel this is a very good safety feature, however there has been some controversy about the braking system, and whether they actually work or not."
The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety has issued statements claiming anti-lock brakes do not provide a substantially shorter stopping distance on dry pavement nor have they reduced the number of crashes in vehicle insurance claims.
General Motors has released statements saying that their anti- lock brakes will give shorter stopping distances with the exception of gravel roads where stopping distances may be longer, but the driver will still benefit from increased steerability.
From your posts around the board, I'm getting the feeling your agenda here is an anti-government / safety crusade.
(1) reduce engine speed, by reducing the fuel input or (at lower speeds) shifting to a higher gear
(2) applying brakes to the spinning wheel
On other topics...
With regards to ABS - I've seen fairly recent test results by Car and Driver, MotorWeek, some government bodies, etc. for several makes/models of cars. The results are pretty much what you'd expect: on loose surfaces where there's better traction underneath (sand or gravel on pavement or packed dirt, snow on pavement or packed dirt) LOCKED wheels will dig through the loose stuff and slow you down on the higher traction surface underneath.
In all other conditions ABS provides shorter stopping distances and, as dindak pointed out, you can still steer your car. I'm not sure how many people take advantage of that latter point in panic situations.
Whenever I drive in heavily urbanized areas, which is where most people live and work these days, I'm amazed at how little stopping distance people allow while driving. When the distance between vehicles is only one car length, ABS is not going to make any difference. Similarly, if people are driving too fast for the road conditions, ABS will not make any difference. If vehicles hit each other or go off the road 5 mph slower, that wont show up in any "incidence" stats now will it?
I've also noticed that it only limits engine power after applying the brakes for a couple of seconds and the wheels still tended to spin. Top notch system, if you ask me!
About the ABS, one cannot pump the brakes several times per second independently for each wheel. IOW, the statement "I can do better" is plain bogus.
Just today I had to brake over uneven pavement with only one side of the car and it remained going in a straight line. Try that manually!