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Comments
And the Civic's score is coupled with a better than average owner satisfaction rating. And the Cavalier? Much worse than average.
So I don't think the Civic will be threatened by the Cavalier anytime soon.
fasterthanu : I don't think most people look at the badge. You and I might, but most people have no idea about car specifics and markings like that. Some cars have rims or trim only available on the more expensive or V6 models. Honda should definitely do this. Some people, for example, might buy a V6 Accord instead of a Maxima.
He complained about lack of chrome and that it makes it look 'downmarket'. I didn't hear him say that for Passat, and until recently, Passat had two piece headlamp that really looked cheap to me.
May be if Honda painted shinier stuff (instead of gloss) on the grill, it would be upmarket like Maxima. I could go on, but atleast his review gave me a reason to call my Civic more upmarket than say, a Ferrari.
Now, Jaguar, are you listening, don't try to hide that chrome grill by painting it black in your 'R' model. Or at the minimum, keep it off Wardlaw's hand.
As for Wardlaw, I just read his bio. You would think that, as important a car the Accord is to Edmunds' readership, and after 8 years working for Edmunds, and with a degree in journalism, he'd be smart enough not to be swayed by Honda's marketing people and actually take the opportunity of a test drive of the car to give it a fair assessment in the areas most important to us. Not just concentrating on the 'sporty sedan' claim, but a balanced, overall assessment.
But then again, Edmunds went gaga over the Altima's performance when it came out and never cared to mention the terrible quality of the car otherwise. That is pretty misleading information to the readership.
In any case, at least they have useful pricing information (I like Car_man a lot - he is awesome), pics and of course these incredible message boards.
http://www.canadianautoreview.com/honda_accord.htm
I like the new Camry's look because it's borderline radical without being offensive (like the Celica), something you can't find in a midsize sedan these days without the car looking tacky (read: Pontiac). And you should see some of the Camry pics that they were showing in the Camry thread of the Phillipines Camry (bigger headlights -but it looks incredible). While the Accord looks just as good as the Altima, I think the two become non-descript when compared to the Camry's looks.
rwong- Is it just my server or did those pics take forever to load?
~alpha
"The 30-mph corner slipped past at nearly 60 without a ripple of concern from car or driver. It took a moment to remember it was a Honda Accord four-door sedan taming the turns."
Oh, so the handling is better than you'd expect in a mainstream car. Approaching sport sedan level? Take that, Mr. Wardlaw.
"The V-6 engine storms. It produces less leap at low speed than you get from the thick torque in the Nissan Altima but otherwise is glorious. It revs so fast to the redline that it'll beat your reflexes, leaving you scrambling to shift the manual transmission to the next higher gear in time."
And this is on regular fuel, which is being used for the emissions and mileage testing. However, the engineers say that the engine is good for 10 more HP and 10 more lbs.-ft of torque on premium. Hmmm... and the Altima already uses premium... Could make for a very interesting matchup.
"Overall: Almost unbelievably classy and competent, surprisingly fun."
He likes the coupe's styling pretty much completely, and really likes the front end on both styles, which he calls "low, mean and businesslike". No mention of the Kia Rio here... He's not real fond of the sedan's rear, calling it "chunky". Even though I'm happy enough with the styling overall, that view is my least favorite as well.
Finally, he titles the review "Nicest mainstream car on the market".
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/reviews/2002-08-01-accord_x.htm
Anyhow, it's turning out just as I predicted... the Edmunds review was an inauspicious start (not a surprise given their history), but the reviews have improved dramatically since then.
fasterthanu- Did you read that little tip about using premium? Totally unexpected...so it's a 250hp engine after all. I guess that Honda guy kept his word when he said Altima's 240 "wasn't enough."
alpha- Glad you agree. Cause I think we're the only ones who don't think the Camry looks like an old man's car.
"The Accord V-6 ratings assume regular-grade fuel, and Honda will market it as a regular-fuel engine. But — pssst — it's good for another 10 hp and 10-plus lbs.-ft. on premium, acknowledges V-6 engineer Asaki."
Over 250 HP in an Accord - UNBELIEVABLE!!!!
We're talking 10 less HP than the current Mustang GT, and more than decade old Corvettes.
I can't wait to drive one. From the initial reviews, it seems like this is a quantum leap in refinement.
I remember when I went from my '89 Accord to my '92 Accord, thinking "wow, what a difference". I didn't feel that much of difference going to the '95 Accord or to the '01 Accord.
Personally, I've always found his reviews to be pretty good, so I don't have any problem quoting them. Wardlaw, on the other hand...
Anyway, we both agree that we're glad he likes the Accord. The only difference is that I like *him* a bit more than you do...
I think he talks about legroom in the coupe, so obviously he's been inside it. But all that performance and cornering stuff was inside an LX sedan, that's why I found the coupe picture a bit out of place.
I wonder if the 4-cylinder will offer the same improvements in numbers if premium is used?
Nice they lowered the cd to .30 in Sedans from the .33 previous.
My new EX V-6 due in first week of September (or earlier). They are in production now.
INKY
Overall, I think Healy is one of the best unaffliated (to a pure auto publication)auto journalists around-very in tune the majority of the car buying public. This article is particularly well written, and does a great job of pointing out the new Accord's MANY positive attributes and some of its negatives. (And much better than the review--well, informational exposition-- in Autoweek)
I really want to see a head to head of the Camry LE, Accord LX, and Altima 2.5S. I'm hoping that Car and Driver puts these volume sellers head to head, if only for acceleration numbers. So far, for the 4s, I've only seen the Camry reviewed by Motor Trend (aside from CR, which "doesnt brutalize the machinery"), and they acheieved 9.2 sec to sixty. I value the 30-50 pass and 50-70 pass more, but they don't perform this.... If Healy's article is accurate, and the Accord 4 cly. engine IS "more fun" to drive than the Camry, I'd project a high 8s 0-60 runs with the supposedly great 5 auto.
Call me boring for wanting this comparo, but this is where the majority (including my family) lies.
here's my specs: Under 22K MSRP, ABS, auto. Bring on the Mazda 6, Galant V6, and any other comers.
~alpha
~alpha
Anyway, I like this remark:
"The guy in the brand-new Mercedes
C-Class kept pulling up, then dropping back,
obviously eyeballing the car we were
driving down the Ventura Freeway.
Finally he pulled up alongside, flashed a big
grin and gave us a hearty thumbs up."
Respect.
just kiddin. Well, we were talking about journalistic integrity. And therein lies higher standards, such that they are to neutralize inherent subjective views. A well-trained journalist should disregard personal biases. Unfortunately, American journalism is far from the ideal, but the ideal is still worth striving for, wouldn't you say?
Accord, can you imagine if he saw a new Porsche? He would have driven right up its rear bumper in his excitment!
I love reading automotive journalism. I subscribe to R&T, C&D, and Motor Trend. To me, they strike a balance between entertainment and good reporting. Of course, they come under fire from lots of people who disagree too, which may be the case here. But I'm not only reacting to Wardlaw's opinion, also to the perspective from which he was composing his entire review, which seems to have had too narrow a focus.
The only mag I do not read is Automobile. From Jamie Kitman's constantly negative rants against German cars to the mag's very obvious ties to Chrysler, it is an example of really poor automotive journalism. Not to mention the writing, layout and pictures are terrible.
FWIW- not too long ago, I "flashed a smile" at a guy in a seemingly immaculately kept Citation X-11--- I thought it was cool, but not once did I think it was pretty.
~alpha
I can see him thinking: "It can't be my car, so he must be smiling at me because...."
~alpha
Anyway, I've held off on my criticism of Wardlaw's review until now, but here goes:
You can't blame Honda's PR people for hyping the Accord. So sure, maybe they were wrong in pushing the Accord as a "sports" sedan. I would say it's a "sporty" sedan. More sporty and responsive than a Camry/Taurus/Impala/etc. Probally less so than Passat & Altima. Why Wardlaw punished the Accord in his review, because it didn't live up to the asserted "sport sedan" label, is beyond me. He's obviously smart enough to see thru Honda's PR, and deduce that it's competition is the Camry/Passat/Altima, not the 3 Series BMW. He could have stated the fact he disagreed with Honda's assertion it was a "sports sedan", and continued on with the review. But no, he had to punish Honda, and that is inexcusable.
I think over the next couple months, all the major car magazines are going to have completely different opinions than Wardlaw's. I'd also be willing to bet that the Accord is going to make the C&D ten best, and the Altima will not.
Not that the 03 Accord is a bad car, but it is a mass produced mainstream automobile that is lost in the crowd.
Now a nice 67 restored convertible may get the thumbs up, but not a 03 Japanese sedan.
I doubt this would happen at all after the first few months and the 2003 Accords start to pop up everywhere.
http://www.canadianautoreview.com/honda_accord.htm
because those photos are about the most detailed I've ever seen on the web! Thank you!
A *link* to pictures you do not own is fine and much appreciated -- of course that is assuming the host site has no problem with it.
Thanks!
Pat
Sedans Host