Older Honda Accords

diploid

And Charlie Baker is quoted as saying that the performance numbers do increase with premium fuel. Does this make it official yet?

silvercrown

if there is one available for the MT editorial that you mentioned in post #5296. I'd be very interested to read the entire thing. I have long believed that the Accord and Camry both receive undue and harsh criticism, mainly because they are the leaders in the midsize market and they set high standards for quality and reliability. I'd love to know what else was said in that article.

Thanks so much if you can do this.

bobst

We live in Fairfax County, and have bought three Hondas from Rosenthal - two at Tysons, and one at Landmark. Our daughter also bought one at Tysons. If you know exactly what you want and exactly how much you are willing to pay, they are great to deal with. Very professional.

I don't like the Fairfax location because the parking is terrible.

Stay away from Pohanka in Marlow Heights. The sales manager and I agreed on a firm price for a car in 1995, and when I came in the next day to pick it up, he would not honor the deal. The owners must have been pleased with his sales tactics, because when I went in to look at cars a couple years later, he was the general manager.

Hendrick Honda in Woodbridge is pretty nice, and they have a nice route for a test drive. We got our 1995 Honda there.

The Honda dealer in Arlington works with United Buyer Service, so they give you a decent price with no hassel. I liked talking with the salesman there (Sean Niragi) but they didn't have the exact car we wanted, so we got it at Landmark for a little better price.

Anyway, Rosenthal (sometimes called 'Rosenthieves') has been fine with us, and we will go back there unless we decide to get an Acura RSX. Since our kids finished college and have become self-supporting, we think we are a young married couple again. We even hang out at Starbucks.

Bob

ickes_mobile

You'll have to go to the newsstand to see the editorial. I don't think they put such items on their webpage.

It will be interesting to see if Davis' comments appear in Automobile too. Davis founded Automobile under the slogan "No Boring Cars", and he now serves as Editor Emeritus. His column in in the September MT, where he is "Editorial Director", is the first I've seen of him in the magazine.

silvercrown

Maybe I can get to Borders later today and check it out.

porknbeans

Davis' dual role happened a few months back when MT was bought out. The ownership then asked him to help in the reworking of MT on a "consultant" basis. I read about it in Automobile. Sorry, for the off topic stuff.

ickes_mobile

in Automobile too and seen his name on the MT masthead. I just didn't think he'd be contributing columns. If he is behind all the changes at MT, then Bravo! Its actually becoming worthy of a subscription again.

My comment was directed more at whether the same perceptions of the new Accord (and Camry) would appear in Automobile given the theme of that publication vs. mass-market appeal of MT.

jimxo

Per September issue of Motortrend. 1/4 mile was 14.98@ 94.95 MPH. Cant wait for the 6-speed coupe to be tested.

dudleyr

Thanks for the info. Maybe Rosenthal has changed. I haven't been there in 10 years, but they used to be absolute sharks. Actually I dont think the Honda dealer was as bad as the others.

bartalk2

I've always thought MT was the least reliable of the big 3 cars mags--basically a slave to the advertisers, praising everything. I bought the current issue because of the Accord review and found the mag. much more professional, independent, and often critical of this car or that (except the Accord, of course). Hope it continues.

inky4

These guys are all wined and dined with lobster and free crap from Honda. While positive, myself, I realize they are treated very well by Honda to illicit such responses.
However, I antipate a greatly improved car.
I do trust consumer reports most of the time, but they are a little funny about things. They are at least unbiased and buy cars from a dealer. No perfect show cars for them.
INKY

tim_hooligan

I went shopping for a new Accord at Rosenthal at Tyson's about 2 years ago. Unfortunately, I wasn't overly educated on buying cars at the time and was so upset by them that I don't think I'll ever go back there. They were marking up their Accords $2500 over MSRP!!! An EX was stickering for almost $31,000 (after $2500 "market adjustment, pinstripe, rustproofing, soundproofing, idiotproofing, optimized antenna, spoiler...)!!! After a test drive, I thought I could work a deal with them, but they refused to come off the price. That was just ridiculous, in my opinion.

We ended up buying from Fairfax Honda. I wasn't there, but I heard it wasn't the best experience (my wife bought there). We got a good deal, but I can't speak for the salespeople, etc..

Woodbridge Honda is a good one. They seem to be willing to deal a little more. As is Leesburg Honda, if you're willing to drive out a distance.

I just don't trust Rosenthal in Tyson's...but that's just me.

ickes_mobile

All of the automakers do the wine and dine bit, so it all evens out, right?

As for consumer reports, I read their stuff if I'm actually buying or someone I know is asking advise. I too think they can be weird, like their infatuation with the Passat. Great car, but not as great a value as Camry or Accord for the maintream consumer. For entertainment, I'll stick with C&D, R&T, Automobile, CAR, and MT.

newmiatakid

Hi, dear proud Accord owners. I would like to change the air conditioning filters on my wife's 2000 V6 EX, but having problems finding them. The owners' manual, of course, was not helpful at all. It recommended dealer service. Has anybody changed these filters before? Were them difficult to replace? Do I need special tools to do the job? Can you give me some pointers or direct me to a website that can give me some information. Any help is greatly appreciated!!!

bobst

I am almost certain the Tysons, Fairfax, and Landmark stores are all owned by Rosenthal.

I stopped at the Fairfax store a few years ago, and I overheard a salesman talking with a customer over the phone. It went something like this:

"I can't believe you won't pay $20,000 for this car!"

"How about $19,900? We will even throw in a free tank of gas."

The sales manager signalled him with two fingers, so he said:

"Make that two tanks of gas."

I thought it was really funny. Sure, they can obnoxious and pushy, but if you know what you want and how much you will pay, there is no problem..

In 1997 we called Tysons Honda and said we wanted a 5-sp Accord LX with mud flaps and floor mats, and we would pay $17400 out-the-door. This was about $150 over invoice. They agreed, so we went there, took the car for a test drive, liked it, gave them a check for $17400, and drove the car home. They were very nice to deal with, and got the paperwork done very quickly.

Good luck,

Bob

crv16

I just replaced the filters on my '01 Accord. It wasn't too hard, just follow the instructions here.

newmiatakid

Dear crv16, thanks for the info. The instructions are very helpful. Take care.

kevin111

I have noticed that many a time, a car magazine will absolutely praise a car when it first comes out, only to scrutinize it and hammer it in later issues.

bartalk2

Obviously, Consumer Reports is the most honest, most reliable and objective source of auto testing. They are not beholden to any advertisers, and their mission is to serve the consumer. Most hobby magazines are pretty much captives of the advertisers and reviews are often just puff pieces to sell the merchandise. That said, however, I'm impressed especially with Car & Driver magazine, whose writers show lots of guts in telling it like it is. They're not afraid to criticize or even ridicule cars whose ads are in the magazine. The writing in C&D is also the best and most clever of the big auto mags. Road and Track is less bold, but you can still get a fairly honest review. Motor Trend has traditionally been the least independent of the three, especially with the Car of the Year Award which is often meaningless.

dindak

CR may be able to be more objective, but their testing and data collection methods have been known to be suspect at times also. Like any other magazine, take everything you read in CR with a grain of salt.

maxpower02

Does anyone have an idea as to when there will be enough supply, so that you can negotiate with the dealers. I am looking for an 03'Accord EXV6 but I'm sure the first 2 months are going to be "take it at our price or leave it" I am going to start looking around Thanksgiving. What does everyone think?

bobst

In October 1998 we bought a new 1999 4-cyl EX Accord for about $300 over invoice. Even though it was early in the model year, the dealers were ready to give a good price.

Why not compute a price that you are willing to pay and go offer it for a new car. If they don't accept your offer, then try again after a few months. Nothing to lose.

alpha01

Good point. But also note that the 1999 vehicle was essentially the same as the 1998, and the issue that maxpower and everyone else really will face is that there is going to be huge demand for this NEW vehicle.
~alpha

isellhondas

About changing the A/C filters. I just had our shop change mine. Our top tech did the work and he turned the air blue in the process.

It's not a simple thing and it's easy to break the bottom panel in the process.

ickes_mobile

is somewhat subjective because their relability information is collected from owners. Same with JD Power. Statistical sampling errors and such...

looking4ex

I'm looking at a 2002 EX w/ Leather (4cyl 4A). Has anyone out there made a similar purchase? I just want to know the going price.
Thanks!

jguo

This is has been discussed many times before. CR is not perfect, because their survey method is not truly random sample (a very important factor in statistics) . Thus their results will be skew a little but their large sample size makes up for it somewhat. Until someone can comes up with something even better, CR is the best we can hope for. They are also biased (aren't we all), but probably less so than other magazines because of no advertising dollars being a factor in reviews.

jguo

When I bought my 1998 Accord EX in November of 1997, there was plenty supply of 4 cyclinders, most dealers deal far below MSRP. EX-V6 is different story, all dealers only sell MSRP or higher.

jrct9454

...was the lack of US production capacity to make the engines. This resulted in a lack of V6 cars on the ground for the first 6 months or more of the '98 model year. Don't look for this imbalance this time around - there is much more capacity to make the V6s in this country now, and I expect V6 availability in the first 60-90 days to be right there with the projected sales mix for these cars.

That said, no one is going to give you a hot deal on the new one for at least a few months - things should be easier from November on. If you absolutely have to have a car in the first couple of months, it is going to cost you.

diploid

Funny how a car that sells in such volume doesn't really have hot deals, at least in my area.

The current Accord has hot deals right now. Before that, you were only able to haggle below MRSP and, if you're real good, invoice prices. And that was it. Not what I would consider a hot deal.

maxamillion1

Even if the Accord was a V6 model, there is no way I would pay MSRP for ANY type of mainstream family sedan. I'd never pay MSRP for a Camry, Maxima, Altima, Accord or Passat. There is no way! It's not even worth it. Why pay MSRP for a new Accord, when the Acura TL is going for near invoice? I can't wait to see the new Accord in person though.

jrct9454

...in March of '98 for about $700 over invoice, and that was not a particularly special deal for Northern Calif at the time. I see nothing in the current market environment to suggest that anything will be different this time around. Lord knows, the economy is worse and the competition right now could best be described as "desperate". As always, there will be plenty of deals here in CA after the initial rush.

irish24

We have 3 cars and neither my husband nor I know a lot about cars...at least I admit that....and I find CR a great starting point when I start looking for cars to either consider or eliminate a car from the running...at least initially..like the passat which I orig wanted to look at...until I found out they rec premium fuel...something I didn't want to do unless it got 45 mpg.sometimes when they talk about the low points you wonder if they are talking about the same car....it's not the only thing I use....we were coming back from overseas and I had to buy a car on my own...I intended to buy a ford Taurus bkz of all the good reports on it...that is until I test drove it.... Since I end w making sure these cars are maintained...you can bet I look at how well they hold up for 7 or 8 years and what is likely to be a problem area and if people are generally content w them...etc....

The key, I believe is looking at what you want in a car, how you use it. how long you expect to keep it...if you keep a car for one year or two...resale is going to be a lot more important than someone who runs it into the ground...

But I don't really look at CR for prices except as a gen. guide...they don't bargain very well and most people don't want to pay close to MSRP for the cars... the one thing that surprises me is that they charge to get car prices that are often pretty much avail for free on a lot of sites....at least they could use THAT guide when they are buying the cars......

bartalk2

Considering the kinds of reviews the new Accord is getting, especially the V-6 sedan and coupe, and considering the bargain sticker price, my guess is that they will be selling for sticker or close to it for at least six months, maybe much longer.

Look at the Acura TL. It was bargain priced from the beginning and sold for sticker or close to it for years (and probably still does, although I haven't shopped it for awhile).

Don't count on getting an Accord anywhere near invoice unless you have an uncle in the business.

bartalk2

Someone above said that CR is "suspect." Wrong word. They are not not suspect in the sense of having any other agenda or being corrupted by manufacturers, advertisers, etc. They are scrupulously honest. The only thing car buffs can say about them is that they are not as involved and preoccupied with the auto industry as the car mags are. Cars are not central to their mission because they test hundreds of different products. The car mags are obviously on top of all new trends in the auto industry because that's their sole interest.

At the same time, the auto tests that CR does are far more systematic and standardized than the tests that the car mags run, which often boil down to a bunch of macho guys driving cars fast and offering their off the cuff remarks, which are often subjective, sarcastic and self-consciously clever. Of course, the performance figures they publish are valuable and useful for comparing one car with another.

I would also argue that the reliability data CR collects from hundreds of thousands of readers are the single most valuable source of info on the comparative reliability of domestic and foreign automobiles we have.

nekoukdg

Here's my situation: Got a great price on the V6 Ex Accord Sedan - $21,625. Also got 4.75% financing from dealer lined up. HOWEVER... I still have 4 months left to pay off on my current lease (a 2000 Nissan Altima) at $245/ month. I've plugged in all the numbers into all the calculators and still can't decide - is it worth it to get the Accord now, and eat the rest of my lease because it's SUCH a good deal, or should I wait, save up a bit more money, pay off the lease in Dec. as scheduled, and then put down a bigger downpayment on the 2003 Accord in Dec./ Jan? See, I feel that the money I'd spend on ending the lease could be used on the downpayment. We're not in absolute need of the accord just yet, so going without a car for a little while isn't that inconvenient. Help me decide please!!!

venus537

"is somewhat subjective because their reliability information is collected from owners. Same with JD Power. Statistical sampling errors and such"

their road tests are not based on this though. sure has an effect if the car is recommended though (doesn't matter how good the car performs in the road test if it has below average reliability).

one thing the enthusiast's magazines have in common is that they don't seem to take reliability into account. the ford focus is a perfect example. They all say the car is great and drives like no other car in its class. So did CR (best in class in fact), but they say stay clear of this beast because of its reliability problems.

venus537

go for the 2003 accord because you'll be second guessing yourself if you don't. if you don't like the 2003, you can probably still get this great deal on a 2002.

this talk about the tl: sure the top of line 2003 accord gets close to the tl, but in many way it's a better car than the base tl. tl is based on the accords current chassis. remember how much better the 98 accord coupe was than the old cl.

yugoboy

Good ol' Honda up to it dirty tricks as usual, please my American friends, check out the link, it could affect you!!!!! http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/020806-3.htm

dindak

One of my beefs with CR reviewers is they are not car guys, they are lab tech types and pick up and report on strange things, contradict them selves and will rate a car "very good" but not recommend it. I'm not saying they are alone with these problems, just that they are FAR from perfect. I know people who know nothing about cars who have looked in this magazine and simply bought the best rated car with out testing anything else or reading anything else. The faith some put in these guys is unreal.

The best method is a consensus method (read many magazines and reviews). One person or small group's opinion may not be accurate and to say the CR reviewers don't have their own personal bias is ridiculous.

benjaminh

Tough call, but I think I'd go for the 03 Accord too, if you can afford it. If you qualify for 4.75% from Honda, you will almost certainly qualify for something near that--say 5.5%--from some other financial institution. The price of the 03 will definitely be higher than an 02, but for that higher price you'll get some significant improvements that are probably well worth it, and the resale value on the 03 will also be significantly greater. By December, production will have ramped up to full blast, and with luck you might even get 1000 off sticker.

diploid

The company is doing that to prevent people from importing Canadian Hondas (which are usually cheaper) to the U.S.

How is that a dirty trick?

dindak

Most of the major car companies are trying to stop the cross-border car shopping now. Nothing wrong with it in my opinion either. I think they waited in the hopes the U$ would deflate back to the 1.44-1.50 range, but unfortunately it's remained strong.

nekoukdg

Thanks for all the info. If others have advice feel free to chime in. I was leaning toward the opposite of what most are saying, leaning toward getting the 2002. What do y'all think the chances are of me snagging a 2002 Ex V6 in Dec? It's true, I might be second guessing myself, but it's also true I may not like the 2003s. This is quite difficult!

nekoukdg

As far as the 2002 Accords go - I'm just afraid there won't be any 2002s left in Dec. when our current lease is up, and that we won't end up with a choice. It'll be the 2003s or nothing. I agree that if there ARE 2002s left in Dec., then absolutely, the deals will be better. But isn't that a big if? I guess I'm trying to decide if it's worth the risk of waiting. The current 4.75% financing we've lined up from the dealer is a good deal, and that may not be around, same with the $1250 factory-to-dealer incentive that we're taking advantage of. What to do... What to do... Again, thanks for any help.

irish24

Why pay for two cars when you don't have to?? The deals are likely to get better and you will be able to weigh your options as reviews of the 03 trickle in...you might have to travel farther to get the exact car you want at the price you want but you can watch the supplies from inventory on the internet.....you might have a change of heart by dec and buy something else if customer cash and financing deals are great on similar cars...if the deals were so absolutely fantastic and the dealers weren't making any $...there wouldn't be any accords left now...and I don't think that is the case...

nekoukdg

Okay. You're helping a lot! I don't care much about having the latest and greatest model, either, as we keep them a while also.

BTW, There's no actual penalty for breaking the lease - it's on a 2000 Altima - we just owe what's left on it. But I see what you're saying - I'm pretty sure if we walk in there and say "We'll take it right now for $21K", we'd get it. And that would pretty much make up for the rest of the lease.

But I also agree that we shouldn't pay for 2 cars when we may be able to find the same car we want later in the year (granted, it may take some extra work to track down). And it's hard to wait with my wife jumping up and down saying that we need to buy it now! I'm going to print out your comments and take them home for her to read!

I do agree with the fact that deals will probably be better at the end of the month, as the 2003s get closer, and deals will definitely be better at the end of the year, IF there are 2002s still around. And it's a great idea to watch inventory on the net. Never thought of that! I know my wife won't be happy with that, though... perhaps YOU can talk to her?

Thanks for the help!

parker19

Been looking at 03 accord and audi a4 ... figureed i would wait until accord came out but i just saw this offer for 2002 Audi a4 1.8T with 2800 miles ... asking price 25,000 ... would you buy this over a new accord v6

Features: ABS, Air Conditioning, Alarm, Alloy Wheels, AM/FM Radio, Bucket Seating, Cassette Radio, CD Player, Cruise Control, Driver-Side Airbag, Leather Interior, Moon Roof, Passenger-Side Airbag, Power Locks, Power Steering, Power Windows, Rear Air Conditioning, Rear Window Defroster, Remote Alarm Control, Side-Impact Airbags, Sun Roof

Dolphin Gray 4DR Sedan, 2800 Miles, Automanual Transmission, 4 Cylinders, Excellent Condition. Car is 2 months old, incredible condition, just as new....Need to sell because moving to another country.

parker19

Been looking at 03 accord and audi a4 ... figureed i would wait until accord came out but i just saw this offer for 2002 Audi a4 1.8T with 2800 miles ... asking price 25,000 ... would you buy this over a new accord v6

Features: ABS, Air Conditioning, Alarm, Alloy Wheels, AM/FM Radio, Bucket Seating, Cassette Radio, CD Player, Cruise Control, Driver-Side Airbag, Leather Interior, Moon Roof, Passenger-Side Airbag, Power Locks, Power Steering, Power Windows, Rear Air Conditioning, Rear Window Defroster, Remote Alarm Control, Side-Impact Airbags, Sun Roof

Dolphin Gray 4DR Sedan, 2800 Miles, Automanual Transmission, 4 Cylinders, Excellent Condition. Car is 2 months old, incredible condition, just as new....Need to sell because moving to another country.

yugoboy

In response to your question on how it is dirty let's just say you were one of the owners of these honda's: "Withholding recall information is dangerous and foolish", says Brian Osler, President of the "Honda is putting American car owners at great risk and is creating potential liability for itself."

"Honda, like other manufacturers, is trying to deprive American consumers from the benefits of free trade" says Mr. Osler. "Cars sold in Canada are virtually identical to those sold in the U.S. Honda shouldn't be allowed to force people to drive around in cars with open recalls."