Older Honda Accords

hunter001

I am the former owner of a 2000 Acura 3.2TL with a DVD Navigation, which has now been sold after around 40,000+ miles. The only thing I (and my wife) regret about selling that car was losing the Navigation, even though the car itself ran flawlessly throughout our ownership experience. We used the NAV extensively, throughout our TL ownership and really want another car with a NAV.

I was seriously looking at a 4-cylinder Honda Accord with a Navigation system. Unfortunately, the only 4-cylinder that comes with a Navigation system is the EX version with leather. For the life of me I can't understand why they need to club this extremely useful tool with things (that I certainly don't want) like leather/moonroof etc ? I would really have loved to save the $1500 extra that I would need to pay for the leather etc., and put that towards the fantastic Navigation system, which with the Voice Activation is even better than the version I had in the Acura. This is really frustrating.

Hopefully Honda will offer the Navigation as an option on the LX model from next year, so that we could take advantage of this option, without having to pay for un-needed extras like leather/moonroof etc to get it.

Folks who talk about installing aftermarket systems in their cars don't know what they are talking about. The difference between a Mercedes Maybach and a Hyundai Accent ! I drive a lot of Hertz rental cars (with the Neverlost NAV system) while on business trips and in no way shape or form is it in any way comparable to a factory system like the Acura/Honda NAV. You get exactly what you pay for, in this case. The factory systems are integrated into the car's controls and operate with Dead Reckoning technology when Satellite signals are absent, like when driving through a tunnel, thick forest or between tall buildings. The only systems comparable functionally to Acura's factory system, would be the regular Alpine DVD Navigation system, which at $3500 (cost + installation), does not even have things like Voice Activation, Touch screen controls etc., like the $2000 ($1800 Invoice) Factory system. Also, when you need DVD updates, the Alpine aftermarket system costs around $300/update, unlike the $150/update with the Factory system. I personally however, never had to purchase an update in over 3+ years of ownership.

Later...AH

rpm29

In Canada there's tons of gravel on the roads during winter so I have many paint chips on my blue '03 LX. I'd recommend getting a hood deflector, but you may still get chipped. I think this is because of the sloping hood along with the paint durability. Now, I try to keep off the freeway. Also, some paint had flaked off on the weld that connects the window sash to the door. Usually, the primer doesn't flake off but below the weld and on one deep paint chip rust appeared before I could do a touch-up.

robr2

"Unfortunately, the only 4-cylinder that comes with a Navigation system is the EX version with leather. For the life of me I can't understand why they need to club this extremely useful tool with things (that I certainly don't want) like leather/moonroof etc ?" For the same reason that you can't get a Jaguar X Type stick shift with a moonroof. The thinking is that if I want a stick shift, I must be too cheap to pay for a moonroof. Translated to this sitution, why would someone spending 2K for a nav system not want the EX model? In essence the sales potential is tiny and not worth chasing.

I'm not saying that's right, but Honda seems to know what sells.

lichtronimo

The Accord was named to Car and Driver's 22nd Annual 10 Best list, for the 18th time.

Also making the list were the TSX and the S2000. Non-Honda entries included the Audi S4, BMW 3-Series (repeat), Chevrolet Corvette (repeat), Ford Focus (repeat), Infiniti G35(repeat), Toyota Prius and ???.

The Acura RSX, Subaru WRX, Porsche Boxster, Nissan 350Z and Mazda6 dropped off this year.

alpha01

... Mazda RX-8.

~alpha

lichtronimo

I'd like to know which 4 years the Accord dropped off the list...

alpha01

I know it was 95, 96, 97, not sure about the other one.

~alpha

kimodo

Hi all,
    Had a question. When I drive my car in the morning, the initial shift from 1st to second is very jerky. This is despite the fact that I let it warm up for at least 4 minutes, with the temp gauge near the normal temp range. It will jerk again if I have to slow down and shift from first to second again. When the warm is warmed up, after driving for a couple minutes, doesn't happen again. Just wondering if this is normal. Can't say I really felt it in my 02 trailblazer. I live in New England by the way, and as it gets colder, more rattles and squeaks start to appear. Can't wait till the warmer weather arrives again, in 5 months. Oh well...

fjm1

Kimodo: The transmission doesn't warm up until the car is driven. Then the Auto Trans Fluid (ATF) viscosity will thin down a little as the temp inside the tranny goes up.

Most auto trans are not as smooth in cold weather until 5 min or so of drive time.

emale

kimodo,

my owner's manual states that the tranny will hold a gear longer when cold to help faciliate the powertrain warmup process. nothing to worry about...

justin

did everyone know that we have speed sensitive wipers?! i figured that out on my own - pretty cool for a Honda!

mikeysoft

Its in the manual.

kimodo

Thanks alot folks. So the question is, should I wait the 4 minutes then or just go after 1. I've always allowed my cars to warm up before driving off. Perhaps that is a misguided myth.

robr2

IIRC the manual advises that gentle operation until the vehicle reaches operating temps is the best way to warm up the car. AFAIK, there is no need to sit there and wait.

lelandhendrix

I agree, I don't wait, just gentle on throttle until it starts to budge off 'c'.

I certainly have nothing to base this on, but it seems that letting the car warm up for 4 minutes before driving away might give the engine some warmth, but I don't think the Tranny warmth & ATF is going to get flowing until you get on down the road.

vonnyvonce

Gentle driving warms quickest and safest. Remote starting and/or prolonged idling can pose a problem. Folks start their cars and allow the engine to fully warm up, hop in a drive like the car is totally warmed. Problem is transmission, differential, axle lube etc (if you have them) are ice cold. Engine might be warmed but rest of the drivetrain is not. Most advise, start car, let it idle briefly (minute+/-) then drive gingerly unti lwarmed.

emale

yeah, by sitting and letting a car warmup...you are just wasting fuel and releasing more pollutants into the air. it's best to get the powertrain/exhaust up to full operating temp as soon as possible. but, that does not mean pull out of your driveway first thing in the morning and race the neighbor to the next stop sign...:)

now, after fully warmed i'm all for a nice race...;)

gregoryc1

I make it a point to let the engine reach normal operating temperature before I drive it in the morning. I do this for three reasons. 1.)It allows the oil to circulate throughout the engine on a cold morning. On a front wheel drive vehicle, it also allows the ATF fluid to warm up through the torque converter. ----2.)It gives me a chance to have a second cup of coffee. ---3.) I like to ride in a warm vehicle.---------- When operating a boat, the captain always allows the marine inboard or I/O engine to reach normal operating temperature before leaving the dock!-----Greg

mps22

I'm planning on purchasing a new Accord EXL sedan very soon, but I still haven't decided the most important feature: the engine. Why should I get the 4 cylinder vs. the V-6, or vice versa? Thanks.

sjg35

i got the 4 cylinder b/c it has plenty of power for most driving purposes, it's cheaper, and cheaper to operate with better mileage(and cruising range), and more environmentally friendly with less emissions. you can improve your responsiveness by buying a manual tranny, but i got the automatic since i already own a little sports car to flog on the weekends. good luck.

mps22

Originally, I was also leaning towards the 4cyl as well for many of the same reasons. I appreciate your advice.

gee35coupe

Now recommend pulling off as soon as the engin idles smoothly. Waiting for warmup wastes energy, is bad for emissions, and can create moisture problems in the still cold exhaust over time.

mike1456

By coincidence, I am shopping for a Honda cyl or 6 cyl this week, and it's hard to make up my mind. I love the way the 6 drives, almost like a Mercedes, and extremely fast and a solid car. But I am concerned about gas mileage and insurance. I am looking for a 4 cylinder that's as fun to drive as the 6, and if I can't find it, I'll buy the 6. Anyone who has the 6 - how is the gas mileage?? Any complaints at all? (I find that many people who love the V6 don't care about gas mileage)

beedublu

and you'll sort of get an answer.

I've posted a question like this before and there are a bunch of posts in reply in the general Accord forum.

I'll probably get flamed for saying this, but the V6 seems to account for more, uh, transmission-related "issues". Look closely at the "Accord problems" forum. The 4 sounds like the better bet to me, in terms of freedom from bugs. I haven't yet test driven either one, but I have ridden in a friend's LX 4 and it seems very smooth -- almost like a 6.

richards38

In REALLY cold weather there is a "cold seal" on everything on a car that's been parked outside. It's best to start and drive with care for a few minutes. Just think of how those icy, brittle parts "feel" when required to start moving!

Cars warm up faster if they're immediately driven rather than standing idle, so don't bother with a separate and wasteful warm-up time......Richard

lelandhendrix

Here's another morsel for thought:

A couple of memers of the automotive press were quoted as feeling the Accord 4-cyl felt like the V6 Camry. Hows that for you!

Seriously, the Accord's 2.4 4-cyl has changed people's expectations of what a 4-cyl engine should be.

tblazer503

Here is another aspect... resale. The average difference between a 4cyl and 6cyl is roughly 2k or so realistically. I bought my 4cyl EX for about 20,5 +TTL(MSRP 22,060) and was offered ~17k as a trade in on a new TL. The V6 is an easy 4k more, and the trade in value according to the smartshoppers real-world values is about 19k.

Mileage is fine on my 4cyl, winter average is about 20mpg(idling for about ~2hrs a week while i smoke in the cold weather at work) and about 24 during the summer. My best hwy mpg was about 40, and for someone who drives almost 100% city, the mileage is great.

The 4cyl is pretty peppy, and while playing around, been able to keep up with a F250, Escape, TL-s(not exactly, but was fun trying)... overall another great engine, IMO.

gregoryc1

The four, (4), cylinder offers more than enough power. I guess it is a personal choice. Purchase what makes you happy. ----Just my opinion. ----Greg

mikeysoft

I'm very happy with my 4 cyl 03 Accord EXL with Navi and manual transmision.
 
The v6 also has a passenger power seat and home-link which my 4 cyl does not.

gregoryc1

QUESTION: ----How can a person drive a car on a cold start up if the windows are covered with frost, snow or ice?---- Out of necessity, the driver would have to let the vehicle warm up to remove the ice and snow from the glass. Another issue involves controling a vehicle on snow covered roads. When an engine is first started, it has a fast idle. This could be a problem on snow or ice covered roads, since using brakes could cause the driver to lose control. ---Just my opinion. -----Greg

mike1456

I'd like to hear from those who have a V6 and wishes they had the 4. I drove both and the V6 was outstanding, fast and smooth, fun to drive. The V4 appeals to my practical side, good on gas, money, insurance. But, as you said, the answer is to keep test driving to find the answer. I've had a 1996 Accord V4 and I never thought it was slow until I drove the V6!

ken972

"I'd like to hear from those who have a V6 and wishes they had the 4". Im sure that list will be pretty small. I have a V6 for the first time and will never go back. The 4cyl in the accord is a good one though.

imidazol97

What is a cold seal?
The oil starts circulating quickly. Its viscosity is thicker, but it's circulating! Letting the engine idle more than a minute wastes precious resources and isn't as effective at warming up the engine.
A friend had an oil heater installed in his car for heating the cabin with the engine oil. It warmed up quickly -- much more quickly than one using hot water.
The oil gets warm quicker than we think.

My car's engine computer drops its idle to driveable level in ice and snow within a minute.

No long warmup needed to melt ice off windshield. That's why scrapes and brushes are available along with a garage if you wish to have one.

talon95

Clearly, you have to use some measure of judgment regarding how quickly you start driving after a cold start. If you have to clear your windows, of course you'd make an exception, at least long enough to complete the task. But when snowy or icy conditions aren't an issue, the recommendation to start driving at low to moderate speeds after about a minute of idling is what the experts recommend.

The fast idle point pretty much depends on the car. My Accord doesn't really exhibit any control issues when first started... other than slightly firmer shifting, it pretty much runs like it does when it warms up. But other cars might be a bit more of a handful.

This is just a general recommendation... nobody is trying to criticize you because you prefer a different approach.

brianl0202

i will be buying very soon and have also been trying to decide between the 4 and 6. i drove the 4 right after i drove the 6. the 4 is nice but obviously you can feel the difference when driving them back to back. it just depends on what you want. the 4 can get you around just fine, but if your going to be driving the 4 and be thinking about how you should have got the 6, i would just get the 6. if the extra power isnt a big deal, the 4 is still a great car. im leaning towards the 6 for myself if i can get the right price. oh yeah, i'm looking at a coupe though if it makes any difference.

mike1456

I will buying today. My transmission went on my 1996 Accord with 123,000 mile on Monday, I barely made it to Car Max. They gave me $3,500 for it, which was fine with me. Now I'm driving a rental. Will I regret not buying a V6 if I get the 4? Possibly. But everytime I pull into a gas station I might regret getting the V6! I have to keep test driving until I find the right V4. I really was happy with my old V4 until I drive the V6 and it just blew me away. But it's also heavier...decisions, decisions! BTW, I'm also getting the coupe.

beedublu

...from the frozen upper reaches of New York state:

Regarding the fast idle, doesn't a gentle push of the gas pedal cause the idle speed to drop? That's the way it works on the various non-Honda cars I've driven over the years.

As for the windows being covered with snow/frost/ice...I have one of those things called a "scraper", available for a buck or so at Eckerds. Primitive, but it eliminates long periods of idling! :-)

fjm1

"As for the windows being covered with snow/frost/ice...I have one of those things called a "scraper", available for a buck or so at Eckerds. Primitive, but it eliminates long periods of idling! :-)"

LOL

Visions of cavemen with ice scrapers

03accordman

Car and Driver has once again, for the 18th time in 22 yrs, picked the Accord in their 10Best list. Way to go Honda.

robr2

From the frozen tundra of Boston where it was 13 this AM when I left the house:

In emergency situations a credit card can double as an ice scraper as well.

beedublu: does the quick tap of the throttle to reduce idle work on computer controlled fuel injected vehicles? I remember doing that on my old carbuerater (sic) vehicles. I've never tried it on a modern auto.

fjm1

Drove the 4 cyl w/stick and was tempted. Being able to get a stick was a plus and it moved along. If I had stopped there I probably would have ended up buying a TSX instead of an Accord.

When my wife and I drove the 6 cyl we were sold. I don't always think more suds under the hood is a good thing, but in this case, it is.

emale

funny how some folks here think they know more than the engineers regarding how a car should be driven in cold weather. simply look in your owner's manual and follow that advice. that came directly from someone who knows what they are talking about...

pj23

That seems logical, but many seem to think they know better than the people who built the car. Just my opinion.

justin

i test drove 4 Accords, two 4 cylinders, two 6 cylinders. all within an hour of each other. the 4 was fine, but louder and slower, than the 6. i had to get the 6 since i plan on keeping the car for a bit, and would rather have a surplus of power than a deficit...

i get around 27 mpgs mixed city/hwy, 23 mpgs if only city, and got around 30mpg's doing 80-85 on a trip to Philly and back. not bad at all for 240hp!

dust90

Mike, there is NO V4, it is an inline 4 or I4.

I bought the V6 after test driving both. The 4 with the manual had plenty of power, but I like to play with that excess power, so. . .

My insurance is about $200/yr more with the V6, 6speed, as my ins co classifies it as a 'high performance' car, which is funny because my Acura CL-S was not. The letter from my ins co said that they consider weight and hp, and the Accord coupe is about 300 lbs lighter than my Acura was.

Gas mileage has been in the high 20's(I have 1300 miles on the odometer), but it does run fine on regular gas(as opposed to Acura, Infinity, etc).

Sometimes I do wish I would have bought the 4 cyl., as I find myself using that extra power a little more than necessary, and I might get myself in trouble! In fact, if I could, I would trade back the V6 for a 4 w/5 speed manual(with money difference refunded, of course).

Oh yeah, the V6 does not have a power psg seat!

gibber

I just couldn't justify the extra expense of the 6 cyl., with the extra gas, insurance, and initial cost. Ease of repair, etc. also suffer(according to my mechanic). Personally, I think the 4 with manual is the ideal combo. Loses 200 lbs under the hood and gets economy car mileage, with plenty of acceleration and is more fun to drive than the auto. Personally I think manuals are safer because you have to pay attention. I drove the 4 cyl. auto and it really saps the power(and doesn't shift as I'd like, like every other auto). The 4 seems amazingly smooth to me, not as quiet and smooth as the 6 though. Its too bad you can't get the stick with the 6 in the sedan-that might have been tempting. Also, I think if I had the 6 I'd want a little more chassis(bigger tires, stiffer, etc.)
 There is a tendency in these things to have increasing expectations. It reminds me of each time I have upgraded computers and at first been delighted with the speed, but then slowly start noticing that the hourglass still comes on and wondering how I can make it faster. It never ends. That's why we have V-12s and 10s and superchargers and Ferrari Enzos. Economy cars now would whip most cars 10 years ago pretty badly in a drag race.

anonymousposts

The 4 cylinder in the Accord is a gem. But so is the V6. I know myself and my husband well enough to know that us + 240HP = no license. Heck he gets in enough trouble with his 160HP Si.

mike1456

Thanks everyone for the useful information about whether a I4 or V6 is best. I did test drive the 4 today, and it's fine for city driving, fast enough for me, although the whining sound is a little annoying. I'm testing it tomorrow for highway driving. One of my friends got three tickets with the V6, caught going 120 mph ("I thought I was going 60, officer!")If the 4 I'm testing can merge from 40 mph to 75 mph effortlessly, it's a sale! I did get some competitive pricing on the 4, they are willing to deal at invoice. There's a lot of cars on the lots. One thing's for sure, check out the car you're going to buy carefully before buying!

gregoryc1

Thank you for your advice. I will be sure to read the "Book of Honda", while I am warming up my car in the morning. Now, I will be able to have my second cup of coffee, and have something to read in the process. Have a GREAT day! ---Greg.

accord7

If I remember correctly, the 6 cyl. will require a timing belt change around 60-90,000 miles. The 4 has a chain, so no replacement necessary and fewer maintenance costs.