Older Honda Accords

mustangdrew

The big and probably unlikely IF is what IF the closed-end lease payment was about the same or not too much more than the Accord? Would it then be not too bad of a deal? The Accord beats the Millenia P as far as power, equipment, and residual, but the Mazda may be plusher and I think it is much more handsome and unique. Not to say the Accord is ugly, it just isn't as nice looking IMO.

fwatson

I find it very funny for people to be worried about the resale value of three cars that have lost half of their value after 4 years and 40000 miles. It is not even worth considering those amounts when you have spent your time with a less desirable car to get a few dollars back on a trade in that is being given to the dealer anyway. Unless you make a private sale you will gain nothing . The trade in value of the car counts for nothing when you are giving it away anyway.

As to the Accord being better equipped. You have to be joking. The Millenia comes with far more standard equipment, and a far better interior than either of the CamCords, and you can not equip either CamCord to compete with the Millenia for anything close to what the MM will cost you.

I also don't have to try my remote on every car in the WalMart parking lot to figure out which one is mine because it looks exactly like the other 5000 cars parked there. I just look for the best looking car on the lot, start it and drive off.

mustangdrew

What I meant was that the standard Accord EX V6 comes with the six disc in dash cd, auto dim mirror, and traction control standard. I believe they are available on the Millenia P as options, but once you start adding them on, it will probably cost more than what most people seem to be paying on the EX V6 Accords lately.
To its credit though, it does have memory seating and fog lights standard while the Honda does not offer memory seats, heated seats, or heated mirrors and they charge for fog lamps. So yes, you can load a Millenia with more stuff than the Honda, but living in Florida 365 days a year, I don't really need heated seats and heated mirrors. The MM does have those cool little oscillating vents and also movable rear headrests, right? Absolutely, I think the Mazda offers a plusher interior than anything else at this real world price. It depends on what options each comes with that are important to you.
The Millenia sort of blends, but you won't be saying, "Is that one mine or that one?" Beep beep. "OK it is that one."

p_g_00

anybody recently bought 02 EX V6 in Northwest region? I heard a lot about deal cash, but seems nobody knows the amount. thanks.

coolguyky7

Our neighbors just bought a new V6 Accord with leather. Did it have to be an EX model? It is in a teal color. Is that the Noble Green? The photos of that color seem to be a darker color.

fwatson

A quick partial list of STANDARD features on the MM.

Leather interior.

Driver & passenger 8 way power seats.

Driver power lumbar support.

Memory power tilt steering wheel.

4-wheel independent suspension w/front stabilizer bar.

16" Alloys w/V-rated tires.

Halogen headlight w/auto shutoff.

Halogen fog lights.

Power tilt/slide moonroof w/retractable sunshade.

Fully automatic theft alarm system.

Carpeted custom fitted floor mats, front and rear.

Multiple autotimed light shutoff including 1 minute key off closing of windows and moonroof.

Steering wheel controls for sound system and cruise control.

Fully automatic climate control.

6 speaker AM/FM/CD/Cassette.

Side airbags (in seatbacks).

Immaculate fit and finish.

Much more, but like I said. Wrong thread.

All for about $21500. I couldn't even come close to that when I priced and drove the Camcords before buying the MM.

ahossa

Cajun626. Keep the Warranty. My friend has a 99 Accord ex 4 cyl and he has to change the alternator and battery. So keep it.

mustangdrew

No, I want to hear your experiences for the MM because I am comparing these two for a purchase in the near future. The Millenia thread doesn't get as much traffic because it isn't the volume seller such as the Accord.
We could go back and forth about which has what standard, and clearly the Millenia has more than the Accord as a whole, just that some of Honda's standard features like the six disk cd and traction control resonate well with me personally. So my earlier statement about the Honda having more equipment was poorly worded.
With the new Accord coming out, the prices lately on both cars are in the same ball park, hence why I am looking at them both. In Tampa, a dealer is offering EX V6 for $20,997, while standard Millenia P offers are around $21,000, neither including TT&T.
What has been your experience with the Millenia? P or S? How would compare the ride and performance to the Accord or Camry?

fwatson

Pat gets upset about comparisons in a dedicated thread. So I will refrain from going further with it. If you read not only the Millenia thread, but the Nissan Maxima v Mazda Millenia threads, you will find all I can tell you and info from others too, both pro and con.

One tip though. Check with Courtesy Mazda if you are serious about a Millenia. No pressure, no hassle, and I took my '01 P out the door last September for under $23000, including tax, title, tags and all the rest of it. Don't waste a trip to Clearwater though, it is a waste of time. High pressure and lies seem to be their MO.

I now have 6700 troublefree miles on mine. Happy car hunting.

mustangdrew

I'll start monitoring and focusing my Millenia comparisons in that forum. Didn't realize you were so nearby! I did go to Brandon Courtesy last weekend but it was raining. Tampa Hondaland was the one advertising the good Honda deals up until this past week.

pat

Moi??

I resemble that remark!!

Actually, some comparison discussion in a dedicated topic is inevitable and in and of itself is not a problem. It only becomes a problem if it becomes argumentative and overtakes the conversation to the point where regular participants are asking that it stop.

But yes, as fwatson points out, there are a number of good places around here to get lots of info on the Millenia. And please feel free to start a Millenia vs. Accord discussion on the Comparisons - Sedans vs. Sedans board if you'd like to do so.



Pat
Sedans Host

bodydouble

You "resent" or you "resemble" that remark? Either one will work in this context but they have opposite meanings!

pat

talon95

That's a common play on words... kind of a comically faint protest...

nofeer

ANY info and or pictures of the new accord?

isellhondas

Well, I really don't know why Millenias are such a dog in the marketplace. I agree, they are nice cars. Best buys are the one year old ones that go for cheap prices.

I hear this is the final year for them.

fwatson

Check out the August Car and Driver page 41 for a couple of pictures of the '03 Accord and a little information (very little).

For you leadfooted readers, they do say the 3.0 will put out 240 HP.

diploid

Did they say anything about the 4-cylinder?

fwatson

No, about all they said other than the V6 info, is that it is about the same size, and will be priced about the same as the current model. They called the taillamps Mercedes-Benz CL style.

The car looks great in their pictures, but the photo angle (from very low) of the front way overemphasizes the wedge shape of the car. The rear corner view is very impressive. They show the coupe rather than the sedan.

fwatson

Wake up and smell the coffee joe. That post was about, GUESS WHAT------THE 2003 HONDA ACCORD!!!!!!!!!!!!

And quit being such a belligerent [non-permissible content removed]. We took the Millenia discussion to the Millenia thread two days ago.

bodydouble

I think he IS referring to the post from 2 days ago.

BTW, if one has to be an [non-permissible content removed], a belligerent one is the only way to go! If you have to do anything, you gotta do it with gusto

alpha01

I dont remember seeing a posting from you on this thread before? Do you have anything meaningful to add? BTW, I'm a Honda fan, but since you mentioned Mazda's faults- my last Honda (a 94 Civic) required MANY thousands of dollars in repair to both the engine (failed head gasket and radiator, separate incidents) and brakes (excessive wear). Perhaps I should have gone all the way and purchased the NEON I was looking at, and saved a few of those initial sales dollars. NOW BACK TO THE 2003 ACCORD. (Speaking for myself but probably the rest of the auto owners/enthusiasts on this board as well, Id welcome any and all Accord thoughts and comments, pertaining directly to the car or otherwise)
~alpha

tiger8

Fwatson posts that the latest issue of C&D reports that the '03 V6 will have 240 HP. I may be mistakan, but I believe they merely said that output will be increased over the current 200hp engine, but they did not claim 240 or any number at all. Check it out. I may be wrong.

fwatson

"Honda worked some of it's engine magic, and its 3.0-liter V-6 output is on par with the 3.5-liter V-6 in the Nissan Altima, which makes 240 horsepower."

Did I missquote something there tiger8? Or did I just see "on par with Altima" "which makes 240 horsepower?

Ah, that's what I thought.

th83

Honda didn't just put the 3.2 or 3.5 from the TL and MDX, respectively, in the new Accord? Sure they can get 240HP out of their 3.0, but what about torque? Torque is what makes the Altima much stronger off the line and it is much more practical for everyday driving.

diploid

But don't forget...Honda is pretty good at gearing, also. I wouldn't be surprised if the Accord's performance is only slightly below that of the 3.5 Altima, assuming that the Accord's 3.0 made only 210 lb-ft of torque (which I have a feeling it will).

tiger8

You're right. They do mention 240hp. I guess I interpreted the phrase "on a par with" the Altima to imply that it might be the equivalent performance of the Altima but maybe not exactly the same hp figure. Anyway, that's splitting hairs. We'll see what it works out to be. In any case, my guess is that engine will be reserved for the coupe, not the sedan, although everything is guesswork. Honda's good at keeping secrets until the very last moment, as we know. I also can't imagine Honda would permit the Accord to leapfrog the Acura TL in power at a lower price. That would accomplish nothing but steal sales from the Acura.

petra02

Do you think anyone really buys an Altima 3.5 SE and races his Accord EX V6-driving friend? Sure, the bragging rights are there, but I doubt he'd put his money where his mouth is. This horsepower thing is really only an issue for the Accord Coupe, and, A: Most Accords sold are sedans, B: The Altima isn't available in Coupe form, and, C: Many Accord Coupes are bound to be 4-Cylinders.

...Anyway, I've seen the pics on vetc.net, and I must say: I like what they've done with the front, but the back is messed up. It's not something a few minor tweaks could fix, but definetely characterises the car as a Buick. Now, can anyone say if the Coupe will continue to have distinct rear-end styling, like it does now? Thanks, in advance.

alpha01

I agree wholeheartedly with your styling opinions about the sedan, and yes, the Accord Coupe will have distinct rear styling as it does now- it actually looks reminiscent of a C-class, IMO. See Car&Driver, August issue.
~alpha

bigkahunafl

I said the same thing when I saw the pictures of the back of the '03 - ACK, a Buick!

diploid

Petra- Actually, the coupes are mostly sold in V-6 form. I think Honda realizes this, and all the rumors that the 240hp will only be available in coupe form will actually mean that the coupe simply won't be available in 4-cylinder form. After all, it's supposed to replace the current coupe as well as the now defunct Prelude.

bunk

I am still considering the 02 EX V6 and was just wondering a couple of things if anyone can tell me. First, I hate the rims and actually like the rims I saw on the 2000 version of this car. Were the tires the same size on the 2000 as the are for the 02 EX V6?
If I purchase this car and would like other rims would the dealer let me just pay the difference on the rims I want and keep the ones that normally come with the car?
How much are fog lights?
Is it true that the 03 240hp Coupe will not be out until spring? I heard that at least the stick version, which will have a 6 speed will not be out until Spring 03, is this true???

ickes_mobile

an "aftermarket" supply of wheels and other things you can add to your car. In such cases, I would assume you get something for the OEM wheels, otherwise just go to The Tirerack.com. You can keep the OEM wheels for a set of winter tires or something...

maxamillion1

Mostly EXv6 models. I see more LXV6 coupess than I see LXI4 coupes, but the EXV6 is the top seller for the coupes I believe.

tierneypham

But look at this link:

http://pc99.detnews.com/autosinsider/sneakpeek/index.hbs?myrec=33

jjman

ickes_mobile

What's the big deal about the pics in the August Car and Driver? Thery're the same Hidden Image pics that appeared weeks ago that led to many discussions as to whether they were fakes.

kw_carman

Since I've subscribed to it, I've been wondering if should have subscribed to another car magazine instead. So far, though, I think it has the best road tests.

bunk

Are there any good pics out there of the 03 Coupe???? Well, besides the mysterious spy pics that have been around for months?

bunk

Can anyone tell me if when the 03's come out if they will be hard to get?
I need a car yesterday, but if I am able to stretch time out so that I can get a new 03 in September, would it be hard for me to find one? Could a dealer tell me? Will it be a matter of getting on a waiting list and paying the top price?
Also, what are the chances that there will be first year gliches? I mean it is a Honda and I don't think they usually have any problems with such things, right?

alpha01

I dont think any automaker is immune to first year quality issues. Honda had some problems with both the Odyssey and Civic in the first year of their redesigns (reflected by merely "average" reliability scores by Consumer Reports, for example).
~alpha

bunk

can anyone answer the issue of how hard it will probably be to get a Coupe Accord by September and if I will pay top dollar for one just because they are new?
I really have no idea if Honda will fill the lots with them in September or if they will trickle in and be hard to get. I want to get the V6 coupe.

sd1228

You probably have already heard this before.
People who buy a new generation car in first
couple of month after its released tend to pay
close to MSRP. Dealers tend to take advantage
of frenzy and pent-up demand.
Look at what happened when current generation
accord was released 5 years ago, or for that
matter, Nissan Altima last year. Eventually,
market reality sets in and dealers will have to
offer reasonable deals.
So, my advice is, if you have to have a car in
September and not want to pay a premium, be ready
with a backup plan (namely either 02 model year
honda or some other make)

alpha01

... but why dont you consider assuming someones lease for 6 months? I believe there is somplace here on edmunds.com that has a link to a lease trading/assuming website. Doing so will give you a window in which to really wait out the supply demand issue, and determine if the new Accord is the car for you.
~alpha

bodydouble

What I would do is buy the '02 and perhaps trade up in a couple of years if the new model turns out to be that good. Bunky,you seem to be fence-sitting between the '02 and '03 anyway. And some of the concerns you brought up are very real. You need a car urgently. There is no guarantee the new Accord will be introduced on schedule in September, and maybe not all the trim levels will be available all at once, initially prices will be high and firm (as others have pointed out), there's bound to be some 1st year issues (the Pilot is already having some, although no major ones so far). The '02 is definitely NOT so out-dated that you couldn't live with it for a couple of years. Why not go for that and in a couple of years you'd be just in time for the mid-cycle upgrade for new Accord.

diploid

Honda sells ***400,000*** Accords each year (and probably more if more people wanted to buy 'em). This is not a Pilot, Odyssey, or MDX where production is limited to less than 100,000 a year. Why anyone is willing to pay over MSRP for an 03 Accord is beyond me.

maxamillion1

I mean it too! The Accord is not one of those niche cars. Look at the Camry, it's not selling for MSRP, and when it came out in my area of the country, the Camry never went for full MSRP. Within a month, the Toyota dealer was offering at least $1000 off MSRP. If you pay MSRP for a new Accord, you need help, and if you pay more than MSRP, I'll be praying for you.

alpha01

Very good point about the Camry. In September/October, all the dealers were selling at MSRP, in December, we got ours for about $400 over invoice. (Same case with the Altima). Waiting does indeed pay dividends.
~alpha

bunk

Thank you all for your input. I still don't know exactly what to do. Bodydouble, what you say makes a lot of sense and really makes me feel like getting off the fence and just getting the 02 Ex V6 Coupe, but I still wonder. I really don't want to get it and in a couple of months see one of the 03's and feel like crap. There is a big difference in 200 and 240 HP and I wonder if the new accord will address complaints I have heard about the reasent (02) one not handling all that well, not sticking to the road, having too much wind and road noise and having plenty of body roll when turning. I know all cars have their issues, but I really do worry about not having a car that will not make me feel secure in it's ability to grip the road and handle well. Would new tires change this dramatically and how bad is it really as is? A test drice can only tell you so much especially when some guy is yakety yakety in your ear about selling you the vehicle.
Some here claim that I would not have to pay MSRP for a 03, but I am leary. A lot of people are awaiting this car and it seems like dealers would naturally take advantage of it.
I have never bought a new car and I really have not paid attention to things like "frenzies" and if they are getting over or under MSRP, so I don't know what happened in '98' when the recent accord came out? I dont' know if they went for MSRP or if they were hard to get in the first month. I guess I get confused about the first year warnings too. Some say that Honda is trustyworthy and thorough enough that they will most likely have no problems or just minor ones with this first year model. Others say all brands have problems with first year models and Honda is no exception. Lease or buy, 2002 or 2003 model, I don't know what to do, but I thought I would find a little more consistency in some of the views that I would get. I should know better. I would follow my gut feeling, but I have no experience in these matters.
Well bodydouble, if I get a '02' and buy it with 2.9% financing for three years, will I get ripped off if I want to trade it in in a year or two? Can I trade it in when I still owe on it? If I lease for three years is there a chance I could turn it in early?
Also can anyone tell me what percent I may pay on interest in Sept. on the new 03?
All in all will it be a matter of saving between 3000 and 4000 dollars by getting the 02?
I know I sound like I am working myself into paralysis by analysis, but your input does educate me and helps me more than what I may indicate, thank you.

bunk

I thought it was such a big deal that so many were up talking the Nissan for it's great horsepower and acceleration, but what the heck? I saw on edmunds that the Nissan Altima 3.5 had a 0 to 60 of 7.3 seconds and the Accord V6 Coupe was at 7.5, is that really a big deal?? I know that some have complained about the Accords road noise, and I don't know how bad the Altima's is, but it seems that many have said it was pretty noisy. I know the Altima is supposed to have great grip, but wouldn't different tires on the Accord Coupe change it's grip? Handling was an issue for some with the Accord, but I have heard complaints about the steering of the Altima. No has said that the Altima's build quality was all that great and most agree that Honda's is one of the best. Some complain about the ride of the Accord, but I have heard that the ride on the Altima is not so great either. Ok, so that brings it down to the fact that the Honda has a lot of body roll and I have not heard that about the Altima, is that really that big of a deal? I would like to know? I want to know why so many are making it sound like the Altima is so much better than the Accord?