BMW 5-Series Sedans

sdg380

Just my add'l $.02.

 

From my experience, there are virtually no front driven cars (which of course includes all-wheel drivers such as an Audi) that can provide the steering feel and responsiveness of a rear-drive chassis. You mentioned torque steer effect, and this effect is virtually inevitable when the front wheels are driven, notwithstanding extensive efforts by Audi and others to diminish it. Of course, it can be masked by boosting steering assist, usually at the expense of road feel. I will admit that I don't know if latest generation of all-wheel drive systems, that normally direct most or all power to rear wheels, suffer similarly.

 

Your characterization of the A-6 and 530 is apt, the Audi's are known for very nice interiors, but I don't think I've ever heard anybody claim an Audi has better driving dynamics that a BMW (ignoring lousy weather for the moment.)

 

With the above in mind, you may find that an all-wheel drive 5-series may not have quite as sharp steering response as a rear-drive model.

 

If you can wait, I'd hold off several months, see if the 530xi is to your liking, and if not, you can opt for the standard 530 and get the extra 30-odd hp offered in the new 3.0 liter engine.

 

If too many problems with delayed gratification (we've all been there!), drive for a good deal on the "old" (ie current 530); salesmen like to sell TODAY, and don't like to hear "I'll wait for the next upgrade". Or pull the trigger on an extra $10k and get a 545, which has a V-8 that has already been upgraded.

 

In any event, don't think you'll go too far wrong with any 5-series.

argelius

Thanks for your thoughts, sdg!

 

I wish I wasn't so squeamish about the concept of getting winter tires...then the RWD 530 would be the easy choice. Seems like such a hassle to get snow tires just for the 5 or 6 days a year I might need them (live in Chicago).

 

So then I'm wondering black interior vs Auburn. The Auburn looks nice (tho haven't seen it in person), but sort of orange in pictures. I've always had black interiors, so that would be quite a change for me.

 

Sigh...decisions, decisions. (Clearly, life it not too rough when these are my dilemmas...)

designman

"With the above in mind, you may find that an all-wheel drive 5-series may not have quite as sharp steering response as a rear-drive model."

 

The nice thing about xDrive (BMW AWD) is that it is only active when you need it, otherwise the car drives as RWD. How the additional sprung and unsprung weight affects handling is another story.

 

That said, cars with 50/50 drive split or rear drive bias do not suffer from torque steer as in FWD. It appears as understeer and is not a bad thing IMO. I point to the Porsche C4S which is a high-performance car. However, I would bet they tweak the steering and suspension of the 5-series with xDrive to adjust for understeer. The X3 with xDrive has very precise and nimble steering. I would expect no less for the 5.

 

BTW, I'd wait for the new engine. Either that or wait for a bargain on the 530s with the older engine when it gets closer to the transition.

glaker

FWIW, in the 3 series, the sports and/or performance suspension systems are not available in the awd models - only the rwd models. I don't know if that will be true with the new 530, but I'd rather have the rwd sports package for the whole year than the awd for those 4 or 5 days per year when the snow is so bad.

argelius

Well, after a good nights sleep, more rational thinking is prevailing.

 

I've decided to do the "mature" thing and wait for the 530xi. (The waiting will kill me, I tell you. KILL me!)

 

My salesguy said they are slated to go into production in May for July delivery. Has anyone heard anything different about that?

george94

I own 530 sp, pp and it is my 2nd yr with this car. I just spent last Sunday driving thru a major NE winter storm where we had about 6 inches of snow/slush on 95. I do replace my own tires and in December I put my Michelin PA2 on. This was my first experience driving in that much snow with about 150 miles to go. I mind you it was a blizzard like condition with visibility about 50 yards max. The car performed flawlessly! I was able to go faster than the regular traffic (40 mph) and never had the feeling I will loose control. The DSC came on many times but the car handled it perfectly. I can tell you I would not be as confident in my wife's Honda Odyssey minivan with all season tires. I was even able to drive in to my garage thru about 7 inches of solid snow (this was pushing it, I got stuck there) but not because of tires but the undercarriage clearance. During my trip I passed many cars (many of them MB, Audi or BMW) which flashers on and going about 10 mph sliding all over the place. Obviously these folks had either summer or all season tires on. I would not give up my RWD for AWD but rather invest in good set of winter tires and enjoy the rest of season with performance tires. Just my .02c.

saugatak

IMO you should definitely get winter tires if you're going with a RWD car in the snow.

 

I also think winter tires are a pain in the butt. When it's not snowing, the car doesn't perform as well. And, unless you change your tires yourself, it's more trips to the garage. I remember when I lived in Connecticut I'd be freezing my butt off waiting in line at the mechanic as everyone was getting their snow tires on first time it snowed. Blah.

 

Also, let's say you're leasing and in 3 years you're going to get a new car. What are the chances that the next car you get is going to have the same size tire as the car you're getting rid of? After going through multiple sets of slightly used snow tires, I decided that there were better uses of my time and money.

 

Just my 2 cents.

andys120

Winter tires needn't be that much of a problem, If you get a set of separate steel rims to mount them on. You can eliminate the line at the tire store by mounting them yourself or simply planning ahead and having them put on by a certain date depending on the incidence of snow in your area.

 

The expense of Snows is offset by the decrease in wear and tear on your three-season rubber.

 

Slightly used snows that don't fit your new car are quite marketable in snowbelt areas.

 

Incidentally, I found out the hard way that even awd automobiles need winter tires all around to cope with severe conditions (hill-climbing in wet snow that's more than 3" deep.).

 

The performance deficits of snow rubber is much less than in the past, along with other negative factors such as noise and excessive wear.

 

In any case it's usually smart to drive less aggressively in winter even when roads are dry. They may be covered with fine grit from salting and sanding.

 

I recommend Blizzak WS-50s for Five-Series cars.

argelius

I think we havet he same philosophy on snow tires. Especially in Chicago, where it can snow unusually early or late in the season, it'd be hard to know when to put them on/take them off. Also, despite rumors to the contrary, we really don't get much snow here -- maybe 2-3 storms a year, so 95% of the time, the snow tires would be serving no purpose.

 

Anyway, I'm now excited about getting the 530xi. (I just wish it wasn't 6 months away!)

bmwdoug

I just found this on the German Car Fans web site. The new 5 series seems to be doing quite well. The web site also has U.K. prices for the new 3 series, 06 model year. Here are the sales numbers for 2004 up through November.

 

 http://www.germancarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2041202.006/bmw/1.ht- ml

hpowders

Selling 5.3% fewer vehicles in 2004 than 2003(2271 fewer 5 series vehicles) fits your description of doing quite well?

kdshapiro

The 5 series is picking up steam, considering the new series is just around the corner. I don't call -2,500 cars a deal breaker when new engine and drive trains options were just around the corner.

bmwdoug

You have to look at the comparisons of the E39 530 vs E60 530, which is 14,762 to 18,112 cars respectively. And the E39 525 vs E60 525, which is 14,080 to 14,528 respectively. You cannot look at the total of all 5 series cars, because the E60 wagon was not available as well as the E60 M5.

gold233790

2005 530i, no sport susp. Ok- not asking much for recommendations on tires, as I've driven on the Blizzak's in other RWD vehicles and they sold me in the passenger seat during a 6" storm.

 

Anyone go through their BMW parts/service for the wheels and install? Pricing difference between them and tirerack? Can you negotiate?

 

I have a decent relationship with local tire shop, but they don't carry Blizzaks (???) and that's the tire I'd like. Also don't install tires I bring from outside- must buy through them.

 

What have people paid for a winter tire/wheel combo?

shipo

After I moved to New Hampshire (and bought as set of Borbet wheels and Michelin Arctic-Alpin tires for my SP equipped 530i), I found out that my local dealership has (or at least had) a deal with Tirerack. Said deal includes having the set shipped directly to them, and for a nominal fee, a twice a year swap AND storage of your off season tires. My set cost a couple of dollars north of 1,000 two years ago.

 

Best Regards,

Shipo

cmybimmergo

I just bought my first bimmer: CPO '02 530i, 5 speed, sp, pp. I read through all of the postings on this forum before I bought the car, and I want to thank everyone for the extremely helpful insight I gained.

 

If you can stand it, I have yet another question about tires. I am undecided what to do, as my situation is slightly different from all of yours. The dealer has given me thirty days to decide whether I want to keep the rims and tires that came on the car or change to all seasons. I definitely am a spirited driver, but I seriously doubt that I require quite the performance most of you do. If the weather is bad, I probably won't go out, but if school is open, I have to be able to drive carpool. I live in Maryland, NW of DC but in the DC area. It's not flat.

 

My options are to keep what came with the car (Michelins) and take my chances with summer tires on the very few days of extreme weather we ever have around here--because I do not wish to get involved with changing snow tires twice a year, switch to all seasons on the sport rims, or change to AS on non sport rims.

 

What are the pros and cons of the sport rims? I know they're more susceptible to damage, but is the difference significant if I don't drive like a maniac? Expense might be an issue, depending on what the cost differential is between sport and non sport rims, and the tires used with each. How bad are summer tires when it gets below 32 degrees? If I drive carefully, will I notice a difference? If I simply switch to AS, will I even notice a difference in handling? Is there any reason putting AS on sport rims is a bad idea? I've been told that aesthetic changes are minimal if I take off the sport rims; is this true? Does it hurt resale to switch?

 

FWIW, for the past twelve years I have driven a '92 ES300, 5 spd, with Michelin AS. Great car (I'm keeping it--only 80K miles). Maybe I should drive this one in the weather?

andys120

I paid $651 for 205/60/15 Blizzak WS-50s on steel rims w covers at my local Bimmer specialist. They work very well.

 

Cmybimmergo, I don't recommend using summer performance tires in snow/ice, the rubber on those has "less than zero" grip in such conditions. Your old Lexus on AS should work fine on those rare days when you must contend w poor conditions in the DC area with one proviso:

 

There's almost no snow clearing infrastructure in that area so it might be best to stay home if you get hit w over 5". In conditions like that you might actually need snows more than we do in NH where they can deal with a lot of snow and clear the roads quickly.

530ir1150r

Style 42 wheels retail for $750 each. Tirerack has Michelin Primacy tires for $190 each. If the wheels and tires the dealer uses are less, then your your resale value will be reduced. How much depends on when you sell, 10 years from now, probably very little if at all.

 

Snow affects summer tires more than temperature. I do not worry about the cold, I never drive my 530i SP in the snow.

 

Keep the stock tires and wheels and drive your second car in bad weather. You also keep the salt off your BMW.

shipo

I have almost the exact same car as you do, a 2002 530i, PP, SP, Premium Audio and Xenon, and I have two sets of tires. That said, were I in your shoes, I'd probably be inclined to mount something like the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S tires on your 2-Piece Type 42 rims (which are arguably the nicest looking rims BMW has ever put on a car).

 

The only problem with the Type 42's is that they are a cast iron [non-permissible content removed] to clean. :-( The way around that little issue is to replace the High-Graphite content OEM brake pads with "Dustless" aftermarket pads. I replaced mine with a set of PBR/Axxis (two brands, same company, same pads) Original Deluxe pads, and I have accrued less black dust on my wheels in the last 9 months that I would have in just a week of driving with the pads that BMW put on in the factory.

 

Best of luck with your new ride.

 

Best Regards,

Shipo

kyfdx

Ditto what shipo says... Do not, under any circumstances, give up those rims... Go with Pilot Sport A/S tires... and if he'll swap them for free, then do that..

 

You'll still have a great looking sport package car, with better handling than a non-sport..

 

Do not try to drive on those summer tires year round.... Forget the snow, when the temperature hits freezing, you'll be skating on those tires... they are not designed for cold temperatures..

 

regards,

kyfdx

equan1

Agree with above (andys120, shipo, kyfdx) re summer tires becoming ineffective in cold weather, say lower than 40 F. Rubber compounds in summer tires work best at warmer temperatures. All seasons should be useable down to about 20 F. Winters are probably effective from 40 F downwards. If you want only one set of tires, it should be all seasons. Check out Tire Rack's survey:

For all seasons:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/surveydisplay.jsp?typ- - - - - e=UHPAS

Tire Rack doesn't carry every tire brand - such as Falken, Nokian, and Toyo. I've read good things about the Falken 512 and the Toyo Proxes 4s. Do a search on them.

For winters:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/surveydisplay.jsp?typ- e=W&VT=C

gold233790

Ok- question regarding bluetooth.

 

I have a Nokia 6820, which "pairs" but doesn't work through the steering wheel phone or voice buttons, as well as not displaying any info through I-drive.

 

Anyone with experience using the Motorolla Razr, v551, or mpx220? Do they work, and if so, can you utilize the I-drive? Thanks.

argelius

My dealer told me the AWD version of the 535 and 530 are scheduled to "go into production" in May, which I guess would translate into July delivery (Chicago, USA).

 

Just curious if anyone has heard differently...

 

I'm dying to get rid of my Acura TL and get a real car...

 

; )

gold233790

Get a real car? I have the 530i, but I also love the TL. It's a great car, and value-wise probably the best vehicle out there IMO.

 

Anyway, I was at the dealership last week and was told late June delivery here in NJ. It should be $1500-2000 or so tacked on to the RWD version. However, those intending to lease may find a problem. One dealer I spoke with said he was told by a BMW rep that the residual and MF numbers would be initially worse for the XI because they anticipate large demand. Not surprising.

 

Even though I was interested in the xi version I have my new titanium silver 530i and am thrilled. Snows just went on......

kyfdx

Xi versions of the 3-series have lower residuals as well...

 

In actuality, it reflects the lower demand for the AWD models.... Less demand, higher intitial cost, ergo lower percentage residuals...

cassidym

Here's the text of an e-mail I back in November from BWM of NA regarding Bluetooth compatible phones

 

Quote:

 

Thank you for contacting BMW of North America, LLC regarding compatible Bluetooth phones. Please accept my apologies, the list of approved phones is not listed on any website. However I would be happy to provide them here. BMW has tested and approved the following phones for use with the BMW Bluetooth kit:

 

AT&T Wireless

Motorola V600

Sony Ericsson T616

Sony Ericsson T637

Sony Ericsson T68i (phone is discontinued) Siemens S56 (phone is discontinued)

 

Cingular

Motorola V600

Sony Ericsson T637

Sony Ericsson T68i (phone is discontinued) Siemens S56 (phone is discontinued)

 

Sprint PCS

Sony Ericsson T608

 

T Mobile

Motorola V600

Sony Ericsson T610

Sony Ericsson T68i (phone is discontinued)

 

Verizon Wireless

Motorola V710 *No

 

*Note: The Verizon Wireless Bluetooth phone (Motorola V710) launched in September of this year. This device is not fully supported by BMW’s Bluetooth option. The phone is expected to be compatible with BMW’s Bluetooth option before the end of this year, when Verizon implements new software.

 

Unquote

gold233790

Yeah, I have that list too. Seems that BMW is EXTREMELY slow to update compatibility.

 

Anyway, a friend has an old Moto v505, which synced pretty well to my 530i this morning. I think I'm going with the v551.

gold233790

You're obviously correct. My thinking was that the MF would be higher because of the area-specific demand for the xi version. COuld residual being lower reflect the nation-wide demand? Most of the country would not need AWD, but those areas that do would probably see a high demand, would receive the large majority of the vehicles in that spec, and as such the MF could be made higher.

 

From the dealerships in NJ I spoke with, most of them anticipate a very high demand for the AWD versions, and believe the RWD vehicles will be second choice to many in this new AWD world.

 

I guess it could be a double whopper for those interested in leasing- the total nationwide demand would be less for the xi (hence lower residual), while regional demand would be high (higher finance rate ability for BMWFS)....sound possible, or do I simply have it all wrong???

argelius

So what's the time-frame for availability that you have heard? June?

cmybimmergo

Thanks to shipo et al for telling me exactly what I wanted to hear. I wasn't comfortable with the idea of changing the original rims--I'm a purist--and I was leaning toward the all seasons anyway. And, I took a closer look at the tires on the car and as it turns out, they're the Pilot A/S. So I'm set.

 

(But after only 258 miles I can see your point about the brake dust. <sigh> Brake dust and lousy cupholders...I guess there had to be SOMETHING for us to [non-permissible content removed] about on this car...)

shipo

"Brake dust and lousy cupholders...I guess there had to be SOMETHING for us to [non-permissible content removed] about on this car..."

 

Errr, my car has cupholders? I've never noticed.

 

Best Regards,

Shipo

kdshapiro

One doesn't need cupholders if their hats hold two coffees.

cmybimmergo

<<"Brake dust and lousy cupholders...I guess there had to be SOMETHING for us to [non-permissible content removed] about on this car..." Errr, my car has cupholders? I've never noticed.>>

 

Rumor is that they live somewhere in the dashboard. But I have my doubts...

erickpl

I always thought they were in the front passenger seat.

kyfdx

My feeling.. as it relates to AWD 3-series.. I'm just assuming it will relate to 5-series, as well..

 

1) Residuals... lower.. generally because of a smaller universe of buyers..or whatever.. mostly because of BMWFS previous experience with resale.

 

2) Money factors/lease payments.. Higher.. partly because of lower residuals... partly because it is a lower volume product, and someone specifically wanting AWD might be a little less price sensitive.. what the market will bear, IOW.

 

3) Salespersons will almost always tell you that the car that you are interested in, is the most rare, most wanted, etc, etc, etc... just my experience.. If AWD 5-series top 15%, I will be surprised... even in the Northeast..

 

regards,

kyfdx

(not an expert)

shipo

I just went out into the garage and lo-and-behold; there are these loopie thingies that kind of swing out/unfold out of the console in front of the gearshift lever. Are those the devices that BMW has dubbed "Cup Holders"? Yikes, I wouldn't trust them to hold full if 5 year old Dixie cup full of congealed yogurt much less a cup of flaming hot coffee (not that I drink coffee mind you, I'm a Formosa Oolong drinker myself). ;-)

 

Best Regards,

Shipo

cmybimmergo

Cupholder wannabes is more like it. I drink water out of square bottles with caps. They fit right in that otherwise waste-of-time recess on the "console" under the "cupholders."

shipo

Hmmm, I just read my last post, and it just doesn't read quite right. It should have said:

 

I just went out into the garage and lo-and-behold; there are these loopie thingies that kind of swing out/unfold out of the console in front of the gearshift lever. Are those the devices that BMW has dubbed "Cup Holders"? Yikes, I wouldn't trust them to hold a Dixie cup full of 5 year old congealed yogurt much less a cup of flaming hot coffee (not that I drink coffee mind you, I'm a Formosa Oolong drinker). ;-)

 

Sheesh! I should learn to proof read! ;-)

 

Best Regards,

Shipo

gold233790

How about an in-dash cd changer? Would be nice on a 50k car. Anyone who has young children realizes the need for a cd changer at your fingertips!

andys120

"If AWD 5-series top 15%, I will be surprised... even in the Northeast.."

 

1)You may be discounting the increasing popularity of AWD in the sport/lux sedan class. Everyone from Acura to Infiniti including the domestics is jumping in with AWD sedans and wagons.

 

2)BMW stands to pick up conquest sales from SUV owners, Audi owners and others who feel awd is either a must or at least a desireable extra.

 

I'll leave the argument as to whether these have more to do with perception than reality to a time when I can decide that for myself.

parrish

Check this site, it is very informative and seems to be up to date.

 

http://www.x5world.net/bluetooth_compatible_phones.htm

cmybimmergo

"I always thought they were in the front passenger seat. "

 

Lucky you! My car didn't come with one of those. The only things in my front seat are my baseball bat and umbrella.

kyfdx

Well.. it is just my best guess..

 

But, BMW already sells two SUVs.. I think the trend is to more SUVS, not more sedans... So, I don't think the AWD 5-series will pick up much from that crowd..

 

I do agree about the upswing in AWD sedans, though.... I've always thought that BMW introduced AWD to capture the buyers that are convinced you can't get around in a RWD car.. Sort of the same reason they introduced "free" maintenance, to capture buyers that were frightened by the high cost of maintaining a BMW.

 

I will say that wagon buyers are much more likely to buy AWD... That niche might take off a little bit..

 

We'll see..

 

regards,

kyfdx

gold233790

Well, all this talk of AWD probably stirred up the weather gods a bit. NY metro area is about to get hit with freezing rain and snow for the next 24 hours.

 

The snow part is where I want to get some info as to how my 530i reacts to the white stuff while wearing Blizzaks. The ice? Can't imagine it matters all that much- ice is ice.

lovemyclk

When I was in middle school, my family lived in Taipei. Learned to enjoy Oolong tea at a young age! I have many memories of waking on Sunday mornings while Mom slept to play chess with my Dad over a pot of Oolong tea. Took mine with milk and sugar as a kid... can't handle the sugar now as an adult ;-)

 

Couldn't agree more about cupholders in the e39 and e60. I test drove the e60 in Germany prior to the US launch. While a passenger at one point during a "spirited" drive in the Black Forest outside of Karlsruhe, my knee hit the passenger cupholder and popped off the cover. Even my German colleague remarked about the poor design!

ger3sf

When I picked up my 330CiC from Munich last June, I had the opportunity to drive the autobahn (and Italian autostrada) at 100-130mph. Last thing on my mind was having a drink, fiddling with the radio/CD, etc.

andys120

The ice? Can't imagine it matters all that much- ice is ice.

 

I got Blizzaks because they are reputed to be good on ice, as well as snow. After four winters I'm inclined to believe that it's true.

 

Report back to us if you get snow in NY, we're only expecting a couple of inches in NH, not much of a test. A 300 mile drive in ice and snow in my Blizzak-equipped 528iA recently left me impressed (see about 30-40 posts back).

trish55

Looking to lease 5 series, can't seem to find a Chicagoland dealer interested in my biz. Any good leases out there?

lovemyclk

something strange about car dealers that don't want your business ;-) What kind of deal are you looking for that scares them away?

mark ii

If you are a 5-series owner, have you noticed that your steering wheel is misaligned with the driver - and is instead aligned with the convex dashboard?

 

This steering wheel misalignment is very annoying and would be tiresome in a long drive. I do hope that this is only a misimplementation by the plant - aligning the steering wheel with the dashboard, instead of with the driver!

 

I took delivery of my 2004 530i last November. After driving my car for many hours now and inspecting the car more closely, it is clear that the uneven position of the steering wheel is due to the fact that it is aligned with the CONVEX dashboard - so that the steering wheel is tilted towards the driver's door, instead of being flat and aligned with the driver as he faces the steering wheel.

 

I cannot believe that BMW can make such a design blunder. I had no such problem with my 98 523i that I traded in. Though my dealer has told me there'e nothing they can do, I believe that there is an adjustment available - and if this is performed on my car, I think the misalignment will be fixed. HELP!