By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
For example, I went to South Carolina this summer, definitely outside the range of the disc. So I couldn't get all the detail about restaurants, stadiums, etc. but the GPS could still tell me what road I was on and provide directions to major highways.
From what I understand, to buy additional discs to cover other parts of the country is quite expensive. The salesman told me when I bought the car, but I can't remember.
As far as updates, I was sent a free update recently even though I have not had the car a year. I don't know how long that will continue.
The navigation system was also a big help when I went to Washington in the spring. It helped me find the hotel and the various monuments and attractions without bothering with a map.
I also think that it may be worth it in terms of resale. I know how the markets work for these kinds of cars - what is a great luxury at one time later becomes a necessity, and buyers don't want a car without that "necessity." I sense that a GPS may become a "necessity" for cars in this class, so part of the reason I got it was for resale value.
http://www.bmw2002.co.uk/news.htm
For example, "I truely love the look of my jet black when it is clean, but I've only had it 6 months and it's a major PIA to keep clean. It is starting to show some swirl marks and I'm kind of regretting my color selection. Unless you plan on never driving it and storing it in a dust free environment it is just too much work. On other hand, I am somewhat of a perfectionist. So if you can live with less than a perfect finish then go for the jet black."
So now I've settled on a blue. I think the Blue Water is out; it reminds me of the color pallet GenX snowboarders love: art deco. It might be great in Miami Beach.
There is a lot of talk about Toledo Blue, and I'm seriously considering it, but in fading light it turns grey very quickly. I'm also woried that it will show scratches sooner, just like the black.
I've not seen many posts about Steel Blue, maybe because it's been out for a while. Anybody have it and care to comment?
I'm thinking of trying out a 540 (because I've always wanted a really fine V8) when my lease on an Acura is up. I've driven the 540iA and it is excellent. The reviews say that the automatic is better to drive than the six-speed -- any thoughts? The thought also seems to be that the (since I like a firm ride and feeling the road) a sport option is a real improvement -- does anyone disagree?
I guess reliability is important to me, especially in a luxury car. I don't think I should have to spend 55--60 new, or 35--40 used, for a car and warranty and then *expect* constant maintenance (other than oil, etc) and repair bills until the car is well into its second 100k.
But many of the comments here mention the 'high cost of maintenance.' What do you mean by that: How much? How do you feel about it?
Thanks for your opinions.
Take care.
Joe W.
Imagine expecting reliability and low maintenance from a $50 - 60K vehicle!
As you'll learn in due course from this and other Teutonic (Audi, etc) boards, reliability is considered something that only the underclass is concerned with. The worthy people just make sure that the lease doesn't last longer than the warranty, and think nothing of sending their daily driver to the shop half a dozen times a year. It's considered a badge of honor to rent a vehicle (remarkably few of these folks actually buy and hold these things) that requires regular visits to the dealer to repair mundane (or not so mundane) things at what would be astronomical cost if it were out-of-pocket.
It's called character. I've owned and repaired MGB's, so I know whereof they speak. I've owned a couple of Miatas as well, so I also understand the source of your question.
I think it's called a paradigm shift. Get with the program!
Having been active on the Edmunds boards off and on over the last three years, I can honestly say that the late model 3-Series and 5-Series cars have shown themselves to be very reliable.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Try F & S motors in the Bronx, as they will work with you.
2025 Toyota Crown Signia Hybrid, 2022 Ram 2500 Laramie 6.4 Hemi, 2007 Mazda MX-5 Miata PRHT
Only had my 540i 6-speed for less than a week (though about 700 miles). She is a joy to drive. Clutch a bit heavy and reviews have commented on the car being "lurchy" around town. It is heavier and touchier than in my old '96 Infiniti G20. Since I live in a smaller rural town with only a couple stop lights, I don't worry too much about city driving.
Best Regards,
Shipo
I recently elected to keep my 7 year old Nissan Maxima another year or two and get a Honda S2000 as a third car. However, prior to making that decision, I had researched and test driven the hell out of all potential replacement sedans. The 530i 5-speed sport was the top choice.
Maintenance costs and repair hassles factored into my evaluation heavily. I have had absolutely zero unscheduled repairs over 118k miles on my Maxima. I would be paying cash and keeping a replacement for at least 5-7+ years (i.e. well beyond the covered maintenance or standard warranty periods). All indications are that the current 5-series is as solid and reliable as they come. Certain items (brakes, tires, etc.) will be more expensive to replace than your average Nissan or Honda, but not unreasonably so, especially given the extraordinary improvement in handling and overall performance.
On the 530 vs. 540 issue, I only test drove manual transmissions. I was pleasantly surprised at how well the 530i 5-speed performed. I found that the 540i 6-speed only offered a significant improvement at highly illegal speeds. I personally liked the slightly lighter weight, rack and pinion steering and better fuel economy of the 530i. Not to mention that the 540i does have somewhat higher maintenance expenses and a $10k higher price tag. I did not test the automatic versions. I strongly advise going for the sport package with any 5-series if you like precise handling and minimal body roll.
I can't answer your question of exactly how much a 5-series will cost to maintain, but I did satisfy myself that it would be quite reasonable. And, I'm with your thinking. Just because I am capable of writing a check for $45k or $55k or even $75k (considered the M5, as well) doesn't mean I want to be nickled and dimed with maintenace headaches. Maybe I'm just one of those "underclass" guys cdnpinhead was referring to. He might have fun working on his MGB - I'll have fun driving my S2000!!
Good luck.
This sounds odd to me.
I didn't have time to check the 5-Series chart.
The numbers revealing that 80% of BMW drivers own rather than lease is enlightening (and surprising) as well. By the way, Consumer Reports is notoriously inconsistent. The words in the report often are at odds with the little dots, or at least that's been my observation regarding vehicles in which I've been interested in the past.
And, you're right: The LS is a compromise, but so far a reasonably satisfactory one. The GS300 was attractive, but only came with an automatic, and I didn't choose to spend the additional 10K to get a similarly equipped 528.
Still seems to me that if one obtains a $40 - 50K Asian car, it'll have fewer reliability or maintainability "issues" than will a similarly priced German vehicle. We've all heard of the dirt-cheap Toyota/Honda/Nissan vehicles running into their third hundred thousand miles; can't say that I've heard so much of that about European vehicles (except for maybe Volvo & Saab), but maybe it's just because the people who drive these cars have the means to replace them well in advance of that kind of mileage. Second and third owners, OTOH, would be likely candidates for the 250K+ mile testimonials, though, assuming there any/many.
Meant no offense, but I just was stunned a couple of months ago when I read that one should be prepared for "breathtakingly expensive" repairs on high-end European vehicles, and they were necessary often enough that going bare (beyond the warranty) wasn't advised. Having driven a Datsun 240Z 228K miles, I tend to have much higher expectations than that.
I guess I should have clarified before I asked about reliability. I'm not really demanding the 307k that one Maxima I owned got, but I sure would like to get 150k before I start seeing big costs (say $1000) being expected. I know too that even with a warranty there are no guarantees, but you folk at least seem to feel the normal experience is pretty good. So it might not be necessary to go with a brand new car but may be sufficient to buy certified and save the depreciation. One of the very minor considerations is the brand/badge/marque panache thing and the adverse image. But if the car drives that well, who cares?
Thanks again.
Take care.
Joe W.
If you want a cleanly integrated, hands-free, docking mobile phone, your only choice basically is the CPT8000. You may find after-market alternatives, but they most likely won't make full use of the steering wheel/radio interfaces to control the phone. From what I've read in other posts, people who have it love the sound clarity (should be good if it's coming out of a premium sound system instead of a cheap ear speaker) and the convenience of it all, especially if you've got a manual (which I will).
BUT, first of all I owned the Motorola TimePort phone for a week, and exchanged it back for my trusty year-old Sanyo 4000. The Motorola was sexier, but I felt the interface and menu system on it were arcane and unintuitive compared with my Sanyo (for example, to adjust the ring volume, hit "FCN" and then the down/up-arrow...no way to know that without looking it up in the 150 page manual).
And, most of all, the price is absurd: You need to get the cradle/adapter as well as the wiring activated by the dealer; all said and done it's something like $1500, which I felt was way too steep. Maybe for $200, but not more than that.
Your other alternatives are some of the cheaper after-market hands-free systems; either a microphone/earpiece cord that plugs in to the phone, or those cradles that plug into your 12V adapter (ugly) and either have their own small speaker or transmit it over an FM frequency for your radio to output.
Good luck.
By 80-100k miles, you'll probably (varies, of course, on driving style and other factors) need to replace tires, brakes, belts, shocks, water and oil pumps, and quite possibly bigger things like the clutch, radiator, etc., many of which can add up to a grand (or more). These things often go on Japanese cars as well, but that's the price you pay, as you noted, for a car that drives so well...
I guess I should have clarified before I asked about reliability. I'm not really demanding the 307k that one Maxima I owned got, but I sure would like to get 150k before I start seeing big costs (say $1000) being expected. I know too that even with a warranty there are no guarantees, but you folk at least seem to feel the normal experience is pretty good. So it might not be necessary to go with a brand new car but may be sufficient to buy certified and save the depreciation. One of the very minor considerations is the brand/badge/marque panache thing and the adverse image. But if the car drives that well, who cares?
Just curious, in what publication did you read "breathtakingly expensive" repairs for high end European car, if you remember? I would concede that 1980's and earlier vintage BMW's and Mercedes had very high costs for even routine maintenance and repairs. But I think competition from Lexus, Acura and Infiniti competition has resulted in a great improvement. From my research, BMW's are probably still somewhat more expensive than their Japanese counterparts, but only in percentage terms, not orders of magnitude.
Also, was the article you read brand specific?? I have heard that Volvo's can start to self destruct at 100k+ miles. Their use of turbo chargers on many models that can cost upwards of $4-5k to replace is a bit scarry. I believe that is why their resale values are much lower than BMW or Mercedes.
Joe W:
A couple more thoughts. First, used vs. new. I am very biased here, having never bought a used car. That said, if you are really concerned about how a car is going to hold up after 100k+ miles, I believe you really need to make sure that it was very well maintained and cared by the previous owner(s). I would need to be a blood relative of a previous owner of a 540i 6-speed to have confidence that it wasn't abused a bit. Not to say that 90% aren't driven responsibly. I just know my luck and fear I would get one of the other 10%. The long term reliability of clutches, brakes and even suspension components are very driver dependent. Not to mention the engine.
Also, how many miles do you really intend to put on the car? If it's 200k+, you may want to reconsider my previous suggestion of going with the "sport package". That will cost you 8-10 sets of new tires @$800+/- vs. 4-5 standard sets @$500 +/- over 200k miles (more on the 540i, since the front/rear are different sizes). I think it's worth it, but it does add up to at least $4,000 to $5,000 over 200k miles.
Finally, as much as I prefer BMW over Mercedes, I am convinced there is no rival to the E-300 turbodiesel in terms of high milage / long term reliability and economy. I have a business associate who has a 1998 with 235k miles (drives DC to North Carolina every week) and the damn car looks and drives like new. No significant repairs at all. He also gets 35+ mpg at a steady 75+ mph.
I took his comments, plus others (I'm sorry to say I can't reference directly from this board) to conclude that a number (who knows how many or what %) of the people who take possession of an Audi or BMW are less interested in whether it will run 150 - 200K miles than I (and apparently others) are. They only want the warranty to outlast the lease.
That's pretty much it.
The BMW 5 and the Audi A6 are both excellent vehicles. For awhile there, I thought the A6 was the answer to my future auto needs, given the excellent experience I had with a coule of rented Audis I dealt with over a few months in Europe. After that, I started paying much more attention to their board, and to this one as well -- I drew my potentially incorrect conclusion from that exposure that high-end German vehicles are "high maintenance."
To get totally into politically incorrect territory, I'd remind everyone that often "high-maintenance" women are the ones that many people covet.
Others of us don't.
In your opinion, should I accept these statements as true?
If you agree a separate set of snows is a good idea, do you stay with the 17" rims or go back to 16" for that purpose?
snagiel, I really appreciated your list of potential problem areas and, no, I'm not taking them as a forecast but a list of reasonable wear items. I looked in your list to find a mention of a timing belt. Was that an oversight or does BMW use a chain or ...? Since I see nothing unusual in your list, is the 'extra' cost more expensive labor or more expensive parts?
Thanks for all the help.
Take care.
Joe W>
The thing is, the difference there is not drastic. I think the biggest difference is around 8 years, where the euro cars overall are $100 more per year then the american cars, which where $80 or so more than the japanese.
Now, to me $180 per year, or $15 a month is a reasonable amount for a car that i feel performs, rides, and looks better.
I'm a person who you might politely describe as "frugal" but i got a BMW after a lot of research. Yes, there are expensive services in there, but they are paced far apart, so the upkeep cost of the car is really not that much more than, say, a pontiac GP or similar. Also not more than an acura or lexus.
I even compared BMW's maintenence to my old saturn sl2. It's sort of a funny comparison, until i figured it cost about as much to maintain my saturn over 60K miles as my bmw over 40K miles. So the bmw cost 1/3 more for upkeep. And, honestly, they do more, and there's more to do. The individual services cost more on the BMW, but they are much less frequent. Tires--my saturn tires were $80, my bmw tires are $120. A front brake job on my bmw is $300 on the saturn it was $200. My bmw has everaged 26.7mpg this year on mid-octane, my saturn probably got 30mpg on the cheaper stuff.
The car cost more to purchase, but i expect to keep it for a long time, because i like it so much. Amortized that way, it's cost per mile is, again, not drastically more than my saturn.
I think the "horrendous costs" thing is overblown, at least if you make some effort to control them.
dave
Labor work on BMW's is comparable with other makes, but indeed parts often do cost more (especially relative to cheap American cars). My recommendation is to get to know a respectable BMW specialist mechanic in your area (most large cities have them), because they often perform work at the same or even higher quality than many dealers. And they can often find used, rebuilt, and cheaper OEM parts. Or, you can do some homework yourself and call dealers like Pacific BMW (www.pacificbmw.com, I believe), which often have good prices on new OEM parts.
Hope this helps.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Good luck!
m34iyg
dave
Any reaction to the idea that the difference between the 540 and the 530 in "normal" driving is small enough to ignore, or on the need and size of snows with and without a sport pkg?
Take care.
Joe W.
I've been shopping for a new vehicle for about the past year (I do enjoy test driving everything). My dilemma was that what I really WANTED was that bright red Corvette...what I really NEED is a pickup truck.
Well, this last weekend my son, who is seriously shopping for a 530 sedan, took me along to our local BMW dealer to look around. Golly gee, look at that good looking wagon over there...let's go for a drive. Well after putting my foot down a couple of times while out on some Sierra foothill backroads I turned to my son and said, "Forget the Corvette"!! My son and the saleslady had to get a couple of service technicians to help them pry my fingers off the wheel of that 540i Sport Wagon when we got back to the dealership.
Anyone have any experience with European (Munich) delivery? Any deep thoughts? Pearls of wisdom?
Man, what a vehicle!! Up till now I had thought the only real BMW's had two wheels....
Regards
Jesse
Citrus Hts, CA
We picked up a 525iT in Munich in June this year. Would not hesitate to do it again.
I think the easiest would be if you were to email me some specific questions.
dva@prodigy.net
Daan
2) I haven't driven the new 540 vs the 530, but i'm pretty sure i'd pick the 530, i get frustrated having much more power than i can use, and the 530 is so much cheaper, not just to purchase, but to maintain, fuel, insure, etc.
dave
As I said, I thought the 530i 5-speed offers more than adequate power for sane driving. If you want to go "insane", get the M5. I think the 540i 6-speed is only marginally quicker than the 530i at speeds under 70. My previous comparison a couple of years ago of a 528i 5-speed and a 540i 6-speed produced a different conclusion. I thought that the 528i was slightly underpowered, albeit a wonderfully handling car. The 530i is a considerable improvement, as measured by my rear end.
On snow tires, I wouldn't need them in DC, but I would go for them in New England, especially if you elect to go with the sport package. As dhanley said, they will also extend the life of your sport tires.
On European Delivery, it's been 4-weeks since I repeated my mantra, so here goes again. It is possible to get ED prices discounted at least as much, if not more, than US delivery prices. Example, I had two dealers willing to go down to $1,500 over ED invoice (equating to $1,300+ UNDER US invoice). Don't believe any dealer that says ED prices are non-negotiable. They make the same profit on a ED car as a US delivered car, and the ED cars do not reduce their allocation. On a 530i that are relatively hard to come by, a dealer should be willing to discount ED prices by at least as much as his "rationed" US delivered cars.
Best wishes to all.
I just came back from the big city after a nice 60 mile round trip evening with my two kids and a neighbor kid at a McDonald's playland. They play for 3 hours; I read The Economist, C&D, National Review, MT, Reason, etc. I had a huge smile on my face driving up there, and around the city, and back home. I had so much fun driving I even let the kids listen to their bubblegum pop and rap stations. Would I do that in a 530i? Probably. Would my smile be as big in that 530i listening to kids banter and bad music? Don't think so!
P.S. I had lunch yesterterday with an associate who took delivery of his M5 in Spartansburg. (The M5 comes with a free admission to BMW's performance driving school - $3,500 +/- to everyone else). He said that the 530i's being run through the course were able to keep up with the 540i's in the hands of the instructors. The 530i lost a little on the straights, but made up a little in the corners and "S" turns.
To John01 - so exactly how much would you have to pay for an M3?? Would you get court-marshalled if you sold it to me at a slight mark-up after a week or two?? Or, will the Military take me as a reservist at 44 if I lose a few pounds and can crank out 60 push ups?? That would be great incentive to keep my New Year's resolution this year!!
I'm sure the 530i manual is also great fun. The underlying chassis of both is outstanding, and the 530i manual has some weight advantages. In capable hands on the right track 530i manual will likely perform a lot like the 540i manual, though track comparisons would likely depend on the track's design (how many and how long straightaways, how many sharp turns, where situated, etc.). But when I read C&D's 10 Best list comments, Automobile's best list and readers' poll, and read the various reviews of 5 Series, it is near universally the 540i manual that gets the most positive accolades. Not that the 530i manual isn't also great, just that the 540i manual is so unique.
If I had to choose between a new 530i manual and a nice Pre-certified 540i manual, I'd live a little.