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BMW 5-Series Sedans

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Comments

  • pen101pen101 Member Posts: 238
    For those looking for a 530i, I hope that the details of my purchase may help you in making a more informed deal. Never has a purchase been so easy. When I made my decision as to which car I wanted (I was torn between a 530i and a 330i) and the options (5-speed) and color (black/black) I wanted, I made some phone calls to local dealers in the Los Angeles area and in less than two hours was able to get a feel for what the transaction price should be. I made the deal over the phone in a 10 minute conversation with the salesman. He had just received the car on the lot that day. The next day (Saturday) I went to the dealership with my wife and 13 month old and looked over and drove the car (had 5 miles on it and still had the plastic wraping on the seats). The process was straight forward and very easy. I verified that the numbers were the same as we had agreed to the night before, and then the salesman directed me to the finance manager while the car was prepped (detailed). All the paper work was signed and when the car was ready, away I went in my new car. No haggling, no pressure, no stress. Here are the numbers:

    invoice -------------- MSRP
    35,665 - base price - 39,450
    645 - destination - 645
    1,950 - sport pack - 2,300
    2,805 - prem pack - 3,300
    425 - xenon lights - 500
    ------ ------
    41,490 - sub-total - 46,195
    400 - MACO
    1,000 - dealer profit
    ------
    42,895 - negotiated price

    Money factor was 0.0023 and I bought it down to 0.0017 for 6 security deposits of $550 each. This equates to an interest rate of just 4%.
    Residual was 62% for 36 month, 36K miles lease.

    I hope this helps. Note that the deal may not have been so good if I had purchased an automatic - they are in higher demand. I'm told that 5-speeds tend to sit on dealers' lots for longer periods.
  • compwhizcompwhiz Member Posts: 46
    I guess too many .com people are going bust. The most I had a dealer offer me over the phone in the Chicagoland area was $1500 off MSRP. I ended up getting $2000 off because the car didn't have Xenons as I was promised and expected. But still, it's mind-blowing - I paid $42k for my car, and it does not have Xenons or Sport. :( One solace - it's Silver. I can guarantee you that unless you dealer offers you free car wash every week, you'll spend a lot more money washing a black car over the lifetime of its ownership. I had a black car once - never again, if I can help it. Of course, I keep forgeting that in LA it doesn't snow(but it rains, I hear). Enjoy your beauty - I can't be pryed out of mine if I can help it.
  • riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    pen101... Thought it interesting you could find the car you wanted in stock and on a dealer's lot ready for immediate sale.

    Noticed a small tidbit in a columnist's article ("Heard on the Strasse") in Jan '02 issue of BMW CCA Roundel Magazine about BMW wanting faster delivery of cars to customers. BMW planning to reduce the number of body variants for all new models. Notes that per BMW, 60 percent of USA customers order their cars rather than buy from dealer inventory. Percent much higher in Germany. Must wait about 100 days to get an ordered car from Germany and 45 days from South Carolina.

    The BMW dealers in my area usually have very few new cars in stock. The nearest one always seems to have about 2 or 3 times more CPO cars than new. Sometimes he might only have 1 or 2 non-demo new cars in 3 or 5 Series on lot for immediate sale. Always seems like first words out of their mouth are "We can order you what you want. You can have it in about 3 months."
  • pen101pen101 Member Posts: 238
    My car was the only one like it (options and color combination with 5-speed) on ANY dealer lot (about 25+ dealers) in the southern California area (I had a dealer check their computer). I searched out that dealer (was about 40 miles away) and got lucky with the deal.
  • riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    pen101... Fate? Destiny? Divine intervention? Blind, dumb luck? Whatever it was, be thankful, enjoy, and take really, really good care of your lucky baby!!!
  • pen101pen101 Member Posts: 238
    I will take your advice.
  • dantlodantlo Member Posts: 106
    Do you mind me asking what dealer this is? or what city it is in? My dealer was very straightforward also.

    Dan
  • jim52jim52 Member Posts: 161
    Does anyone have a dealer recommendation in the Philly area?
  • g_carg_car Member Posts: 46
    Otto BMW off Rt 202 very good. I picked up my '01 525 from Union Park in Wilmington they're OK but based on feedback from a couple of friends Otto seems to be a little better esp. in the service area. I went with UP because one of my neighbors works there and I was able to get a fairly good deal.

    If you have the chance my vote is to go with the Sport package. My choice came down to 525i w/SP or a 530 without the Sport. Just how much better the 5er looks with the Sport package(IMHO) was enough for me to pick the 525i w/SP over the plain 530i even with the HP difference. If you don't have to worry about too many potholes I would recommend the Sport. I saw somewhere that about 30% of the USA 5er's are delivered with the Sports option that's across all engine flavors. Also saw BMW set a record for USA sales in 2001 even with Dec numbers being down by about 11%. Probably affect of that 0% stuff from GM, Ford etc.
  • pen101pen101 Member Posts: 238
    Long Beach BMW. Scott was the salesman. Dan, looking for a car in addition to your 325i?
  • metmdxmetmdx Member Posts: 270
    Well I live just outside infamous NYC (where the only thing bigger than the rats are the potholes)so I'm leery of going "sport". I understand the improved handling, but like I said previously, I wouldn't be able to take full advantage of the capability.
    On another note (this may sound even sillier) but is it possible to get the Vavona wood trim without the "premium pkg"? My thought is that for the price of the pkg, I could save a grand and still get moonroof & leather. Then add power lumbar (which I happen to think is the smartest thing ANY car manufacturer can do - especially for the "forgotten" passenger!) and I'd still be 700 or so ahead (don't have need for "homelink" and the rain sensing wipers don't interest me at all). Doesn't sound like much on a 45k car, but every little bit helps.

    Thanks,
    metmdx
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    ..if you like pen101's deal at $42,895 and can't find a dealer in your area, you might want to consider European Delivery from a dealer that will discount those prices.

    The car I had priced up was essentially the same as pen101's, plus the premium stereo. Was looking at an ED price of about $41,200 (i.e. $1,400 over ED invoice, $1,500 under US invoice). That would work out to about $40,100 for pen101's configuration.

    We ended up getting a Honda S2000 as a third car, but I know when I replace our sedan in another year or two, it will be with an ED BMW 530/540. If you live in an area where $1,000 under list is the best you can do and are considering traveling to another dealer/area, I suggest also considering ED. Doesn't work for everybody, but the saving's potential is significant.
  • drosexdrosex Member Posts: 6
    Looking at buying a 2002 525. I have heard people seem to think it is underpowered. However, my wife likes the size much more than a comparably priced 330. What are the opinions about its' power and performance--and can the power "problem" be addressed by an aftermarket chip.
  • riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    drosex... Which transmission are you planning on buying? The manual transmission will improve acceleration and passing times.

    You should both take extensive test drives in whatever cars you are considering, over the roads you normally travel and during the times you travel them. See if whatever car meets your needs.
  • drosexdrosex Member Posts: 6
    riez--Unfortunately, it will be the automatic as my wife doesn't like a stick shift. I know you can "make up" for the performance difference with a stick but it is not to be. And we don't want to spend the extra money for a 530 automatic.
  • riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    drosex... Only way you'll know if meets your needs. Make sure it has a full tank of gas. Get it on interstates, do some passing on 2-lane county roads (55 MPH speed limits), jackrabbit starts from stoplights/signs, etc. If it won't meet your needs, the 330iA surely will.

    As for room issue, I have a '00 323iA and a '98 540iM. With wife and two kids and luggage, both work just fine. I'm 6'2" about 180-185 pounds. Both have sunroofs.
  • geirmgeirm Member Posts: 5
    Well, went to pick up the car today.

    I am still not a BMW owner, and the experience really depressed me.

    The summary : the 'CPO' car was delivered with

    - a cup holder broken inside which I pointed out when agreeing on the car so I was stunned that 1) it wasn't fixed and 2) they didn't mention it when taking my check

    - when I opened the hood, the brake fluid cap clip fell out of the hood, where it had stuck after the 'mechanic' left it on the sill and closed the hood on it.

    - the hood switch/sensor cable disconnected

    - engine filthy with leaves still under the hood in the engine compartment

    - the interior not cleaned very well (no vacuuming or dusting...

    - the power steering which made a noise which I had pointed out when I agreed to buy it

    - and a sound from underneath (same deal...)

    They also offered no CPO report or list of things they did to the car.

    Like I said at the start - this would have been my first BMW and I am pretty sour on the whole subject right now. I can't imagine that many people will spend that much money for a used car, and put it up with it being delivered dirty and broken. Maybe they are just so great that people do put up with that, but I won't.

    Alas.

    Thanks everyone for all the advice and help.
  • 6_speed6_speed Member Posts: 37
    I'm so sorry that you have to go through such a bad experience.

    Like I said in one of my earlier post, CPO cars should be fine if they come from a reputable BMW dealer.

    Which dealership was yours?

    You are right to walk away and I don't think anyone anywhere should be that 'desperate' to want such a car, CPO or not.

    I lived in the Bay Area, CA and had pretty pleasant encounters with CPO cars when I was price-shopping. NONE of those I test drove had such obvious issues.

    Hope you don't give up just yet. I'm sure you'll find a better dealer/car down the road...
  • laura528laura528 Member Posts: 4
    The lease on my 528 is about up so I went to the LA Auto Show today to look at the new BMWs and other makes. I was very disappointed in what is available at BMW. They have not made any significant changes to the 5 in a long time. Looks the same in and out. I think the 3 is too common and the new 7 is just plain overkill and ugly from the back (plus the minor point of being out of my budget).

    I can't see myself leasing another 5-Series since it is basically the same car I have now, but I have to make a decision soon.
  • cramarcramar Member Posts: 7
    530ia black / black pp,cwp,xeons comfort seats,fold rear seats. Delivery in 6days My question is this; Is it worth it to extend maintenance agreement to 4 yrs 50 k for extra $395.00 what kind of maintenance is recommened by bmw between 36 k & 50 k ?
  • compwhizcompwhiz Member Posts: 46
    You are the second person who mentioned buying maintenance for $395.00. My dealer sold it to me for $499, which is the "standard" price, and when I mentioned to him that I read someone bought it for $399, he laughed at me and said it's not negotiable. Where are you buying yours and did you bargain at all? Also, curious how much off MSRP(or over invoice did you get). Anyway, I figured $500 is worth the peace of mind that the only thing I have to worry about for the next four years are gas and tires.
  • 6_speed6_speed Member Posts: 37
    I don't suppose you would consider a 540i (Auto or Manual) with Sports Package. It would 'complete' your 5 series experience until the next iteration comes along.
  • 6_speed6_speed Member Posts: 37
    If it covers all Inspection I AND II, then it may be worth it. The labor cost for those inspection starts at about $495 and runs up the tab pretty fast! Check to see if these are covered.
  • g_carg_car Member Posts: 46
    My wife and I faced the same issue when we started looking choices were 330 vs 525 vs 530. We ended up going with the 525 w/all options except for the heated steering wheel and GPS. Had the car since June 2001 very happy with it, wife is the primary driver she says she will never drive anything else. It comes down to what you're really looking for and we found the 525 to strike a good balance between cost, luxury and performance. We found the 330 to be a little small for a family car and it just doesn't have the same luxury feel as the 5er. For reference we also have a '95 300ZX TwinTurbo and a Honda Accord that I use as a daily driver. You really can't go wrong with any of the three Bimmers just comes down to your particular circumstances.
    Happy Motoring
  • riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    geirm... Sorry to hear about your bad experience. I had a very good one in late November getting my CPO '98 540i6. The dealer, Enterprise Motorcars, Appleton, WI, did have another CPO '98 540i6. Canyon Red w/black interior. Keep looking for a good dealer. They are out there! If you are really upset and want to return the favor, you might contact BMW NA to complain. Have you complained to the dealer's general manager? Maybe they'll want to make amends? Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

    laura528... While I'd recommend a 540i6, you won't go wrong with any new 5 Series. The current E39 5 Series came out in 1996 for 1997 model year. Reportedly to be replaced either in MY 2003 or 2004. There certainly isn't anything wrong with the platform. Still state of the art and gets accolades from anyone who ever tests one. And after all these years of building it, most of the bugs are gone and build quality is high. Consumer Reports recommends it for reliability and they just called the 530i the best car they ever tested.
  • metmdxmetmdx Member Posts: 270
    I'll try this again:

    On another note (this may sound even sillier) but is it possible to get the Vavona wood trim without the "premium pkg"? My thought is that for the price of the pkg, I could save a grand and still get moonroof & leather. Then add power lumbar (which I happen to think is the smartest thing ANY car manufacturer can do - especially for the "forgotten" passenger!) and I'd still be 700 or so ahead (don't have need for "homelink" and the rain sensing wipers don't interest me at all). Doesn't sound like much on a 45k car, but every little bit helps.

    Thanks,
    metmdx
  • davv62davv62 Member Posts: 76
    As far as I can tell, the vavona redwood is available only with the premium package. I thought it might come with the leather seats, but the description of features on Edmunds makes no mention of this. It only says leather seats and leather door trim. I did not see the vavona redwood dashboard option attached to any other option besides the premium package.

    I see what you mean about the approx. $900 difference in price between the premium package and getting just the leather seats and the sunroof. It appears that for this extra money you are getting an upgraded vehicle computer, the vavona redwood dashboard, rain sensing windshield wipers and the autodimming mirror.

    There seems to be no way to detach the vavona redwood dash from the package, but I suggest you ask a salesperson for a definitive answer.

    By the way, did you pick a dealer yet? Luckily, in the NY-Connecticut area, there are a few. It's not like living in Vermont, where there might be one BMW dealer in the whole state.
  • metmdxmetmdx Member Posts: 270
    Thanks for the input....still trying to decide between CPO and New. If I go new, it seems that some dealers have more on the lot to drive than others. That might have to be the first criteria.
    Regards,
    metmdx
    PS> It just so happens your Vermont comparison is on the money - 1 dealer - Automaster in Shelburne (just outside Burlington)....
  • cramarcramar Member Posts: 7
    I purchased in northern New Jersey,on 11-28-01,IT was 1800.00 over dealer list about 3 k under msrp
  • geirmgeirm Member Posts: 5
    6_speed :

    thx for the condolences :)

    I'm starting to wonder if the CPO was done. There was no CPO paper work presented at delivery. I might call BMW NA and see if they are interested.

    I won't reveal the name of the dealer yet as I may give them a chance to make good and messages like this tend to persist - and since edmunds.com doesn't have any concept of thread linking, I wouldn't want to tarnish their name if this was just a huge mistake that they correct. - people reading later wouldn't see that all was well. :)

    but will certainly let you know what happens.

    it might be a new 530 or a new Saab 9-5 :)

  • laura528laura528 Member Posts: 4
    My dealer sounds a lot like you, he has tried to convince me I need a 540. I don't have any need for more horsepower for the type of driving I do and I certainly don't need a manual transmission in LA traffic! He said BMW is offering some great incentives to push the 5 though. I think the car is getting a bit long in the tooth and they need to add incentives to keep them moving.

    My dealer also tried to push the X5 but I don't see myself as a soccer mom (yet).

    Has anyone returned a lease vehicle to BMW without getting a new one? Are they going to try to hit me with any kind of "excess wear" charge?
  • g_carg_car Member Posts: 46
    A 3 year lease on a 530i Sport would put you right in the sweet spot for the new 5 Series when it comes out. New model out 2003 and give them 2 years to work out the bugs.
  • 6_speed6_speed Member Posts: 37
    geirm:

    Your restraint(on not reviewing the dealership) is admirable. Fair enough.

    After rereading your posts, I suspect you're right - it was too obvious that they didn't prep the car at all, let alone CPO-ing it. I can't imagine what was going on in their mind.

    Since you were set and probably 'spoiled' by a 540, you may find it harder to 'accept' a 530.

    I test-drove a 9-5 Aero(250hp) and it was OK - didn't like FWD or the torque-steer, so didn't think too much about it. I like its exterior shape though and the interior was very nice too.

    Anyway, good luck with your search.
  • cmr530icmr530i Member Posts: 278
    My 530i and I just completed our first round trip road adventure from L.A. to Scottsdale,AZ. Let me tell you that it was the shortest 800+ miles I have ever driven! I have the premium sport pkg and did it fly! (just under radar!) Incredible passing power too. Rain sensing wipers came in handy as we went in and out of rainy conditions, letting me concentrate on the road and not the wiper switch. Incredibly thankful I had the Xenons in the black night of the desert allowing me to see great distances in front and to the sides of the road. Can't wait for the next trip!
  • 6_speed6_speed Member Posts: 37
    I'm not a car dealer or sales person! :o

    I usually try to sell my leased car to private parties at a little over residue (a couple of grands) which is still a very good deal (for private parties) unless the dealer provides some incentives.
  • riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    geirm... BMW, not the dealer, controls the CPO Protection Plan. BMW mails you the CPO paperwork, really the warranty booklet and cover letter, after the purchase. Took me about a week to get the paperwork from BMW. I even asked the dealer about it upon delivery. He explained to me how it worked but did give me some generic information, pamphlet and brochure.

    Did you ever check out the BMW NA web site CPO locator? You should use it to see if that particular car was showing up as CPO thru BMW NA. If it wasn't on the locator, then I'd be real suspicious. I found the CPO I purchased thru the BMW NA CPO locate.

    laura528... Think g_car's advice is right on. Thinking you might adjust the length of a new lease (say 2 or 3 years depending upon when you want to buy the next generation 5 Series platform). Did you consider re-leasing your current car? Maybe for 1-2 years? Have you contacted the BMW NA lease consultants? You should in order to find out all your options
  • riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    According to the detailed 86-page 2002 5 Series glossy brochure, the Vavona Redwood is "included in 525i and 530i Premium Packages". The 540i gets standard Burr Walnut Wood. This is shown on at least 3 separate places in the brochure. And the detailed options chart makes no mention of being able to get it as standalone option.

    Pulled out my 1998 42-page 5 Series glossy brochure. Back then the 528i could be had with Vavona Redwood only thru the Premium Package, too.

    Have you thought about buying an aftermarket Vavona Redwood kit? You could check with BMW Accessories catalog as well as a ton of possible aftermarket suppliers.
  • john01john01 Member Posts: 246
    My first reply somehow disappeared, so one more try.....

    I am waiting for the delivery of our 530 sometime this month, but right before I placed an order, I looked at 330 just to compare the actual dimension. To my surprise, the 330 actually has a hair more leg room than the 530, but the 530 has about 1.5 inch more width. My wife and I both sat in the cars and even though 1.5 inch is not a huge difference, it felt much bigger, especially with a baby seat. Also, we really like the styling of the 530 better.

    Was the significant price difference justifiable? To us, it was since we plan to keep it for a while. Funny as it may sound, I could not justify going for a 540, though. It was not so much the power that attracted, but overall look and feel of the car, and the power of the 530 was just about right. I did not consider the 525 because with AC on, 2 adults, and a baby with all the baby stuff, I felt that the 525 might leave us wanting for a bit more. I am sure, though, that either one will put a big grin on your face when you drive.
  • jim52jim52 Member Posts: 161
    At what dealership in northern NJ did you get 1,800 over invoice? Did you have to work hard for it? What options did you get and what was the MSRP and invoice?
  • riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    Looked thru the current "Original BMW Accessories Catalog". Picked it up at my local dealer. Page 38 discusses "Interior Wood Trim Kits". Says, "Interior Wood Trim Kits are available for many BMW models. Consult your BMW Center for more details." The detailed chart on p. 70 shows kits for older E34 5 Series.

    There is a Vavona Redwood/leather w/multi-function buttons steering wheel kit for E39 5 Series sedan with 3/99-on build date. Costs $650.

    There is also a glossy Vavona wood inlay/leather automatic transmission selector lever for E39 5 Series. Costs $191. Plus a leather/glossy Vavona manual gear shift knob for 528i for $151. Guessing this would also work for 525i and 530i.
  • cramarcramar Member Posts: 7
    02 530ia I would like to install a changer. Does any one know what model alpine to use ,believe car is already prewired
  • gerry18gerry18 Member Posts: 39
    The BMW accessories web site includes wood kits for the steering wheel and various shift knobs only. This implies that the interior wood trim kits are no longer available.


    http://www.bmwusa.com/virtual/accessories/viewaccessory.cfm?enumber=E39&category_id=INTERIOR&accessory_id=106

  • gerry18gerry18 Member Posts: 39
    I went through the same exercise recently and decided to go with the BMW/Alpine changer rather than a stock Alpine. I was informed by several audio suppliers in the Chicago area that the Alpine required some sort of an adapter to convert from the Alpine cables/signal logic to the BMW/Alpine. They quoted prices for the Adapter of between $120 and $180. A dealer in the Cincinnati area, which didn't have the adapter in stock, indicated a range of $50-$75. That also would have required getting the mounting hardware, most likely from BMW to be compatible with the BMW installation. All in all, the small final price difference didn't seem to justify the less-than-ideal installation.


    Two web sources for the BMW/Alpine unit at some discount are:


    http://www.eurobuyers.com/

    http://www.pacificbmw.com/catalog/default.asp

  • cramarcramar Member Posts: 7
    I purchased over internet on 11-28-01 , had to order ,530i black /black,steptronic transmission, premium package , cold weather package, fold down rear seats, comfort seats, xeons msrp 47445.00 payed 44685.00
    I think was good deal
  • 530bmw530bmw Member Posts: 130
    after spending several months looking for a car and researching postings on Edmunds, i settled for a 530ia. Initially, I was looking for a 525 but ended up with the 530 and spent much more that i had planned. The car comes with sp,pp, and cold weather package, i was able to get it close to $3000 under MSRP for $44,700. I believe I got a decent deal that's why I went ahead and bought it. I did not realize that the tires with sport package are not M+S(all season) until I read the owner's manual and visually inspected the tires later on. I saw a few postings regarding snow tires but not sure if I need them or not since I live in D.C. area which does not get too much snow. What has been your experience driving in the snow with the sport package tires, especially for those of you who lives in the D.C. area? Your input will be greatly appreciated.
  • compwhizcompwhiz Member Posts: 46
    So, did you end up buying an adapter or not? If I buy that CD Changer from Eurobuyers, do I need anything else? Also, just curious, where in Chicago did you get your bimmer and where do you service it?
  • jim52jim52 Member Posts: 161
    Definetly a good deal. Can you explain how you purchased it over the internet? Was it through a dealership's web site or some other? How did you negotiate the price. Was it a tough negotiating process or did you get that price right off the bat?
  • laura528laura528 Member Posts: 4
    Well I wasn't planning to do this today since I have a few weeks left on my lease but I got a new Jag X-Type today. After driving it I knew it was for me. It is so warm and inviting inside and drives and handles much more smoothly and quietly than I am used to, but it is still extremely responsive. The dealer experience was great, it was like shopping at Nordstroms when you're used to Sears. They coddle you, they wash your car whenever you want, they will pick your car up for the free maintenance and bring it back to you, or they'll give you a loaner, whatever you want, They have a new owner seminar with a free dinner provided and have high performance driving opportunities, and on and on. But most of all I liked the responsive handling of the car without the penalty of a stiff ride. I also think I'll like the all wheel drive for ski runs to Mammoth.

    Thanks for your help, now wish me luck returning my old car to my old dealer without getting a new one from them, ugh.
  • snagielsnagiel Member Posts: 750
    Congratulations on the new car. I understand the 'buyer's remorse' you're going through, but believe me, the 530 is worth every dime above and beyond the 525. You'll enjoy it.

    As for your question about the tires, BMW doesn't hide the fact at all that the sport package comes with summer tires--they call them "performance tires" for a reason. Even if they were "all-season" tires, those are still a big compromise in both directions. It's like having to wear lightweight boots year-round. So, if you'll be driving the car in snow and ice during the winters, I'd highly recommend going to tirerack.com and ordering up a set of 16 inch wheels with dedicated winter/snow/ice tires. You'll be able to see which fit on the site. It'll cost a grand or two (depending on how nice the wheels and tires are), but it's a good investment in not only helpful traction but truly an important safety item. Plus, it'll help prevent additional wear on your summer tires, which will then last longer.

    Good luck, and enjoy the new car.
  • dl7265dl7265 Member Posts: 1,381
    Congrads on the car. Right before the X release i stopped by a local Jag dealer for a brochure'.I had the most awful treatment of any dealer ive ever had.A saleaman was showing a couple a X type brouchure when i asked the lady at the desk she said they were not available , when i meantioned then couple behind me had one in their hand, she smiled and said they were not out yet.This was the worst Snootville experience ive ever had , mind you i arrived in my BMW and casualy well dressed. The fact is i would not take 3 of those cars for my 3er,

    Happy motoring,
    DL
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