BMW 5-Series Sedans

snagiel

$1500 over ED invoice and he's thanking you!?

Nice going, Shipo. And welcome to "the club."

sergeym

<$1500 over ED invoice >
Are you getting the car here and they gave you ED price or you actually going to Europe?
Also will they do a similar deal on 540?
Thans.

shipo

Snagiel,

Thanks for the welcome.

I talked with the salesman a little after the deal was consummated. He told me that as of 2002, even though ED cars do not come out of his allocation (meaning that the $1,500 is simple profit that the dealership would not have otherwise been able to make), the sale now counts toward the dealerships' count of sold cars (so that they might be able to increase next years' allocation) and the CSI scores (which so far, I have only praise for the dealership, so my rating will be high).

He also said "With the 1-Jan-2002 price increase (invoice only), BMW is squeezing us and forcing us into a volume business." Basically, I think that he did not have anything better to do on a Tuesday afternoon, so a quick sale was just fine by him.

Sergey,

Yes, I am picking the car up at the ED Center in Munich sometime in late April or early May. Yes, the deal is available on the 540i as well. If you want to see the ED prices, go to www.eurobuyers.com and click on the &#147;REVISED 2002 5-Series PRICING INFORMATION&#148; link. That will bring up a PDF of the very sheet that a BMW salesman works from. Simply add up the &#147;Base Price Euro Delivery Price Munich Pick Up&#148; and the invoice price of the options that you want, add some dealer profit and start shopping.

Good Luck. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

jeffc1

I am picking up my 2001 540i this weekend. I can't wait. I unfortunately will have to keep my 328i around until I can sell it myself. Or I will just continue to make the remaining 9-10 lease payments. This deal was so good I had to take a chance on it.

sjmurray2

Ok, I believe this trim level would satisfy my needs performance wise. In fact, I was quite surprised--Beautiful car, responsive and very well built. Could use better cup holders, dual climate control, etc. However, I can live without these particular items, but is it me or is the stock radio poor quality? I mean horrible for a $40K car? He has no 525s on lot with premium audio either? Any suggestions on what he might except? Scott

indylowflyer

I have had my 2001 540i since May and feel this vehicle lives up to and exceeds its reputation as the best "sports sedan". The power is incredible, the handling is superb, and it is as quiet and tight as the day it was delivered. Congrats on your purchase.

compwhiz

Basically, you need to know the following:

The GUTS(engine/transmission) of 325 are the same as 525. The same holds true for 330/530. The difference between 525 and 530 in terms of amenities is about the same as between 325 and 330. 525 is a heavier car than 325, so the performance is a bit slower than 325. So, it's all about the "feel" of the car. I have 530, and after having it for a few weeks I took it to the dealer and drove 330 for a day as a loaner. Same engine, great performance, but you don't get the same luxurious feeling as 530. 330 felt a lot sportier, like the 3000GT I used to own(although with much better handling). I paid $42k for my 530 - best car money I ever spent in terms of satisfaction coefficient/$ spent.

john01

I picked up my car last Friday after 4 months of waiting, and this is in Germany. I am going on a trip to the Southern Germany and Salzburg and have gotten some good information on where to go and etc. If anyone is interested, let me know, I will email you. I am too lazy to put them on web site, so don't hold your breath for that.

Oh, BTW, we have Toledo Blue ext./gray int. 530i 5spd. FUN!

vishnu11

Shipo:

First off, congrats on the new buy! I am off to Munich 3/15 to get my 5-er and can't wait.

Now, if you look carefully at the invoice prices on eurobuyers.com, there are 2 sheets to compare - one is the PDF that you mention and the other is a GIF of what the invoice prices were before Jan 1.

It appears that, say, taking Base Price EuroDel pickup as an example, that the price differential is actually 10% (more than $3000) between the PDF and the GIF, not the 1% that dealers are telling us.

Further, the options pricing listing on the PDF is the MSRP, not invoice.

I can only conclude that the pricing on the PDF is MSRP for the base car as well.

Folks - correct me if I am wrong, and point me to the new but correct invoice prices.

I am nervous and ecstatic about my new 525. I also rented a 520d in Munich for the days that I am there because: (a) new car cannot be driven at respectable speeds...:-) (b) want to test out the diesel and (c) not taking delivery until the end of the trip. (d) the new car's a slushbox for my wife, but I am a die-hard manual guy.

Thx!!

sjmurray2

I agree, I did drive both series and I liked the 5 much more than the 3 for comfort. I'm getting old I guess. My concern is the stereo (as cited earlier post) and what I should offer the salesman. He does have a 2001 530 Demo with 3K miles, but the warranty clock strated last year. He wants invoice, but I think it could be had for lass? Thanks for the feedback.

shipo

Hmmmm, I think that the PDF is correct, see the following chart (leading zeros added to keep columns aligned):

US-Ret---US-Inv---ED-Ret---ED-Inv
39,450---36,060---36,690---33,390 2002 530i (Inv: US was: 35,665 & ED was: 33,020)
00,645---00,645---00,645---00,645 Destination
03,300---03,005---03,300---03,005 Premium Package (was $2,805)
02,300---02,095---02,300---02,095 Sport Package (was $1,955)
00,500---00,455---00,500---00,455 Xenon Headlights (was $425)
01,200---01,090---01,200---01,090 Premium Sound (was $1,020)
========================================================
47,395---43,350---44,635---40,680 Total

Hope this helps.

Best Regards,
Shipo

vishnu11

RTFM 101 - I missed seeing the other pages in the PDF. Thx!

jeffc1

Thanks for the feedback! I have heard very few complaints about the 540i's. I really am getting excited about picking it up on Saturday morning.

compwhiz

If you can get '01 530 and it fits your budget and has the color/equipment you want - get it!
As far as pricing goes - it's debatable, I guess. Considering that a very good deal on 530 in some parts of the country is $1500 over invoice(not so in Chicago, you'd be lucky to get one for $2000 over invoice), the dealer is depreciating the car by $500 per 1k miles. I'd offer them $500 under invoice cash - and wait until the end of the week(month-end, they might be more willing to consider it and MOVE it). It's well worth it. Also, you can buy Full Maitenance upgrade for the 4th year/50k miles for $499(or $399 if you get lucky and dealer accepts it) and have a piece of mind for the next 47k miles. Good luck!

sjmurray2

Is the premium audio upgrade worth getting?

riez

sjmurray2... Only your ears and wallet can tell you if it is worth it. Make the time to sit in one with and one without. Bring lots of the type music you listen to. Listen to various radio stations. Make sure to study the manual so you know how to adjust it so you test all features.

BMW sound systems leave a lot to be desired given the price range and target market. My '98 540iM has premium sound system. My wife's '00 323iA doesn't. I think her's sounds better. We bought ours CPO so it wasn't a big consideration.

But I'm also not much of a fan of gutting the installed systems with new speakers, etc. Just wonder if you end up screwing something up. But if you love to tinker with sound systems, know what you are doing, and can buy something decent, you might be better off going after market.

indylowflyer

sj- I felt the upgrade was well worth the added cost. Especially when you factor in the tremendous number of hours spent in the car. I could of gone after market and saved $, but I prefered the factory installation. IMO, the upgraded system sounds great.

sjmurray2

Thanks to the two above posts! I will bring my own music this weekend. BTW, the salesman had no idea how to adjust the radio on Tuesday, so it may not have been balanced/tuned correctly. I was on my lunch break, so I did not have a lot of time. I drove 525 and 325 that day.

The 2001 530 Demo I'm looking at only comes with the stock radio, so if I am dissappointed, I will have to set sights on 2002 525 for budget reasons. I do appreciate a nice sounding radio/Cassette/cd player in the car because my kids have confiscated my home system! I am also considering the Audi A4/A6 based on certain creature comforts I observed while test driving these two cars last Saturday. I know this must be taboo talking about Audi, but I do have to consider this alternative if BMW does not come through. Scott

jwilson1

What is CPO?

(Sorry.)

Take care.
Joe W.

riez

jwilson1... This is BMW's extended warranty on used car purchase. You can read about it at BMW's NA web site plus they have a nice CPO locator to help you find the right specific car near you.

shipo

On Tuesday, I posted information about the deal on the 530i that I just placed on order, including the dealership and salesman. I called my salesman today to ask for the production number, and he said, &#147;I want to thank you for the referral.&#148;

&#147;Umm, err, OH! Your welcome.&#148;

&#147;Yeah, he called up, and placed an order over the phone.&#148;

&#147;Congratulations on the sale.&#148; (as if I knew all about it)

So, apparently, someone out there (a lurker maybe?), got a deal from Mike @ Park Ave as well. Tell us about your deal, what car, what options, ED or Domestic...

Inquiring minds want to know. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

530bmw

Does BMW offer a special price for people who serve in the US military and station in Germany? I understand that you have to buy from local dealers in Germany and ship it to US, and it is cheaper than ED price. Please confirm.

nyccarguy

Who was that masked man?

colt007

Is the paint on BMW's better than other cars? I own a 99 Chrysler 300M that I always keep a bra on to avoid road crap. If you look too hard at this car the paint will chip. I've seen older BMW's with high miles that show no signs of chipped paint. How concerned should I be? My wife will be taking delivery of a 2002 530i, Step, sp,pp, ps, cwp, xenons, split seat at month end. Thanks for the input.

Colt

nyccarguy

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but they don't make paint like they used to. Paint nowadays (even compared to the early '90s) is softer (due to enviornmental regualtions) and therefore chips easier. From what I've read here, a lot of people buy a "clear bra" which protects the front of the car without the usual fading problems you get with a bra. I know Mercdedes used to have the best paint (my parents owned a 1990 300E). Their current 1998 CLK has scratches, dings, & chips all over it. There's deinitely a difference. When we got rid of the 300E in 1998 it had 150,000 miles on it. That car (the paint) looked better then the CLK does today with less than 50,000 miles.

shipo

So far, nobody has 'fessed up about their new toy. Just shy I guess. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

jwilson1

There are some car companies that make a sale point of their paint .... Acura, Jaguar, and others, I'm sure, that I just don't know about. In their case, they claim to use several layers of paint (for depth and durability) and, of course, the clear coat.

When you see those cars they do, like BMW, seem to have a better shine and fewer chips, even on models that are several years old. So I'm guessing BMW does a similar job, but in all the noise about the engine a lot of those details may get lost.

One of the problems with a traditional bra is that it traps stuff that, with the movement of the bra, will scratch hell out of the paint. The clear bra doesn't work the same, but I think it takes away some of the sheen of the paint even though it's "clear."

Take care.
Joe W.

colt007

nyccarguy jwilson - thanks. To other owners: how does your paint look? My 300M that I use a bra on (it comes off once a week for wash/wax)doesn't look too bad but even with the bra, its starting to pickup more chips. I didn't want to use a bra on the 5, the car looks perfect as is. I do alot of highway miles. So if you have a few thousand miles & never used a bra, how does your paint look? Maybe I'm stressing over this too much. Thanks again for all input.

Colt

snagiel

If you do some highway driving (especially in the north, where there is more sand debris), your call will eventually pick up some nicks. Your options are either to live with them, get a traditional fabric bra (which is ugly and traps dirt underneath), or get a clear bra. I opted for the latter (XPel, but BMW offers one as well--same material but poorer cut and cheaper, and there's another product from StonGard, which is thicker but requires professional installation). I installed my XPel, and it's quite transparent. I didn't do as good a job as someone experienced with the material might have, so the only things that show are some folds and stretches in the material (as well as the edge of the material itself), but it's much better than a traditional bra, and I'd rather any visible damage on the film than on the paint itself.

By the way, they offer a headlight film which is much easier to apply, only $50 or so, and highly recommended (these new xenon light assemblies are $1400 for the pair).

nyccarguy

Does anybody own/lease (or have you driven) a 525i with the 5-speed? Obviously it looks weak on paper, especially when you compare it to a 530i & 540i, but it is after all a BMW. What are your thoughts?

snagiel

I've driven one. It handled extremely well (due to the light weight and sport package), and the power was surprisingly strong. But I could sense I'd "adapt" quickly and find it lacking, so I went for the 530i. Of course, now that is the new baseline. Basically, go drive it and decide for yourself. Personally, I'd probably choose the 330i over it, but it's your call.

nyccarguy

and I want to know. When the lease is up on my Saab in December My first choice (for my budget) is a 325Ci. Given that I will be shopping towards the end of the year, I'd love to pickup maybe a leftover 330Ci or 525i. The 330Ci (or 330i) & 525i are definite reaches for me as far as budget goes. I just think maybe with the new model (5 series) lurking aroud the corner, a dealer might have a 525 with a 5 speed, SP, Sunroof, & CWP sitting on his lot at the end of the year. Wishful thinking though.

shipo

If you check back on the 3-Series discussion to the last week of November 2001, you will see a series of posts from Brave1heart and myself. Said posts are of our impressions from driving each other&#146;s cars, which were his 325i and my 328i, both cars are equipped with a 5-Speed manual tranny.

Given the fact that our cars weighed about the same, that the 325i has only a few less HP (9) and a little less torque (31 lb. ft.) offset by the more advantageous gearing of the 325i, I was expecting the 325i to be at least as fast, if not faster. That said, I was quite surprised at how much more power the 328i had, especially on the low end.

The 525i weighs in at 3,450 pounds, which is 231 more than the 325i, the 530i weighs just another 44 pounds beyond the 525i (3,494), with both cars having the same gearing as their 3-Series siblings. So here again, I suspect that given my experience with the two 3ers, there will be a substantial difference between the two cars, especially given the fact that the 530i has 41 more HP and 39 more lb. ft. of torque than the 525i.

Best Regards,
Shipo

nyccarguy

I remeber your swap posts.

brave1heart

Do you really need a 5-series? I'd think that a young 26-year old would not need all the space and would have a strong preference for the sportier, more nimble 3-series. I have argued on the 3-series board that the 325 manual has more than adequate power for everyday spirited driving and that the 330 has more power than what I consider usable power for everyday driving. Any car that does 0-60 in 7 sec and 0-100 in 20 or less is more than adequate for everyday spirited driving IMO. Put it this way: no-one has managed to intimidate my 325i SP. The 530 is about as fast as the 325 and I'd think that the 525 would be too slow for my taste. Just like Shipo, I cannot justify the price jump of 8 grand or so to the 540. As far as the 325 vs. 328, that 31 lb. ft. difference gives the 328 a good advantage in the lower RPM's. The higher the RPM's, the closer the HP rating between the 325 and the 328. The difference in acceleration was very small above 4K RPM's. The 325 takes more skill to squeeze the juice out of and that makes it more fun to drive than the 330, which offers on-demand power. With the 325, you have to think at least a step ahead and know where you want the RPM's to be for your next move. With the 330, you could be asleep at the wheel when you punch it and it will take off. That said, the 525 will be OK above 4K RPM's but overall, it would be too slow for my taste.

nyccarguy

And I don't need a 5 series. It is Friday afternoon and I'm a little bored here at work. When all is said and done, I will probably end up in a 325Ci with SP, Moonroof, & Heated Seats. Plus I like the fact that you say it will take a more skilled driver to squeeze the juice out of the 2.5L I-6. My next car will be my first manual. I think the 325Ci will suit me just fine.

LOL...Asleep at the wheel!

compwhiz

excuse me?? OK, OK, so I just turned 27, but I did buy my 530 when I was still 26. I test-drove 328 back in 1999, and was pretty happy with it, but now I come off driving 3000GT for 4.5 years. I did not even want to consider 3-series anymore, because I knew my wife will make me keep the car for at least 5 years, and I just couldn't take the 3-er sportiness for another 5 years. 530 is perfect mix - just as luxurious as 540(sans acceleration and a couple of amenities), but with M54 engine(same as 330), it's just a tid bit slower than 330. I took my 530 for service for a day, and took '01 330i as a loaner - buy, even though it was fast, I sure missed my 530 all day long.

nyccarguy

GUYS...I wasn't trying to start a 3 series vs 5 series debate. Chill!

merckx

I almost bought one last spring-with a 5 spd., I thought it adequately powerful. More would be fun,sure,but I think the 525i would be a wonderful car. The 3 series coupe is a pretty car,;really nice roof line. But I'd definitely go with the 5 sedan.
And if these prices are a stretch,I imagine that if you did take the plunge with the 525i,you'd be thrilled with the car.
These things are so relative,but a five series when you are still in your twenties can't be bad!

metmdx

Does anyone know if BMW still is offering 2.9% financing on CPO's? If so is it thru BMW Financial?
Thanks,
metmdx

cmr530i

My 2001 530 just completed its first 10K miles; a mix of highway and street driving. It does not have a bra of any sort and here is the condition of the paint: two very tiny paint nicks on the hood(about the size of a pinhead), one nick the same size above the left wheelwell, three to four similar nicks in the front spoiler. Only I seem to notice them as I hand wash my own car. I am not going to stress over it. I am fully enjoying my car and figure this is par for the course with a low profile car(I have the premium sport package). I must say that I think the highway driving has put most of the nicks on, as I seem to frequently hear the pinging of sand, pebbles, and other pieces of god-knows-what on the windshield. I do try to stay far away from trucks as they always seem to fling up debris. Hope this gives you an idea of what to expect.

riez

metmdx... Here in midwest BMW dealers have been advertising 3.9 percent CPO financing thru BMW NA Financial since last fall. I got that in November 2001 from BMW Enterprise Motorcars, Appleton, Wisconsin. First saw the 3.9 percent CPO ads in October. Checked today's Omaha World-Herald Motor News. Still showing 3.9 percent. Back up thru 11/30/01 BMW Financial had been paying the first payment along with the 3.9 percent. That seems to have died out on 12/1/01.

jhammell

Just completed the first fill up for the 2002 530i and was able to pump in 18.77 gallons without topping off. The rated capacity is 18.5 gallons but know from previous experience that my 1985 VW GTi holds over 15.0 gallons despite a 14.5 gallon rating. My question is how much have other owners been able to place in the tank and what kind of real mileage range can I expect under "normal conditions" which to me means keeping up with traffic ?

Thanks.

JH

sjmurray2

I took the wife to drive a 5 series today and she fell in love with the car. She did not like the Audi A6 or the Lincoln LSV8 nearly as much as the BMW. I am ready to go to the bank on Monday to get pre approved for a loan, so I just want to ask this board what a fair offer would be for a 530 Auto, Premium, and zenons? My delemma, if they are getting full MSRP for these cars, I may need to go with the 525. I think I would be happier with the bigger engine. I priced a 530 out at $41375 invoice and a 525 at 38095. Any suggestions?
Scott

ewoq

If driving a manual, 525i OK
If autobox, go for 530i - CPO if necessary
You don't want any regrets in a few years.

sjmurray2

My gut instinct says the 530 too because I do hold on to a car. What would you offer over invoice? Also, is there an after market cup holder for these cars? My wife could not believe the cupholders in a 40K car! Scott

shipo

There are some dealerships that will sell a car for $1,500 over invoice, if you shop around, you should be able to get the exact car you are looking for for $42,875.

Another option, if you do a European Delivery (ED) you can get the same car for $38,395 (includes $1,500 for dealer profit), you of course would need to provide your own airfare.

Best Regards,
Shipo

sjmurray2

Thanks for the info! I will make that offer next week. Any suggestion with the cupholders? Wife really hated that feature, she will drive the car 20% of the time likely!
Scott

cmr530i

Go to message #1037 on this board and you will see the location to go to concerning a European cup holder. The cup holders that come with the car are livable. I've adjusted to them and they hold a water bottle or a small-medium drink cup with no problem. Just wish they were not so close to the audio/AC console.

bn_shopn

Can anyone recommend a fair BMW dealer in the Baltimore/DC area? Next 2-3 weeks in the mkt to buy 2002 525i. My closest dealer is Russel BMW or Northwest BMW. Read positive about Tischer and read/heard neg about VOB. Looking for upfront discussions and not the bait and switch stuff.
Would it be fair to expect to be able to negotiate down to ~~$1500 over invoice? Is it better negotiating to buy on lot or order new? Thanks!