BMW 5-Series Sedans

pen101

I now have about 1800 miles on my new 2002MY 530i 5-speed. I look forward to driving it every day. It's a guaranteed smile every time. In fact, my 22 mile commute each way to work and home seems too short now. Maybe I should move further away so I have an excuse to drive more.

I have a question about the center arm rest. It is too low for me. Does any one else have this problem? On my Lexus (and for that matter, in my friend's Audi A6), the height of the arm rest allows my elbow to be slightly higher than the height of my wrist when holding the gear shift lever (most comfortable for me, especially on longer drives). In the 530i, however, my elbow is slightly lower than my wrist when holding the stick shift knob. This is a less comfortable position. If I lower the seat to have my elbow height equal to my wrist height, I do not like the lowered driving position (I like the seat at approximately 80% max height). Any suggestions?

Also, in my previous cars, I used to store my parking gate card (the size of a credit card) in the center arm rest storage area. However, the 530i does not have a center arm rest storage area. The card does not fit in the little storage area under the center arm rest either. Other than in the glove box, is there a place in the car I overlooked for storing the card?

P.S. About the cup holder, I use the cup holder to hold my cell phone. Works great.

goosefish

Hello,
I can pick up a new 525i, manual, cold weather premium package for $36K. It is a leftover - sound like a deal?
The car would be a family vehicle - I have two children 10 and 6. I had bought a Lexus RX300 last year but my wife has commandered it!! Right now I am driving a 1999 Toyota Seinna (please no comments!!)
The 525i won't last - you all seem to know these cars so well - can you give me some honest advice?

Appreciated and signed - Mr MiniVan

530bmw

I bought my car from Passport BMW and I got a pretty decent deal. I believe $1500-$1700(excluding $200 MACO) over invoice is acceptable to them. It was a pleasant experience, if you want the name of my salesman, just let me know. I went to VOB but did not like the way I was treated, period. Tischman got a mixed review but I did not have first hand experience with them.

If you order a car you will get exactly what you want but can you wait 6-8 weeks? If you get one currently on a lot it may not be exactly what you want. Only you can decide.

goosefish

Looks like I would be getting the car at invoice plus $350 (MACO) and $160 (Training and Systems Fee). Not sure what these are but think it is a good deal.
Does anyone know what the new 2003 models will be like? Should I wait? Will changes be significant?
Thanks.

530bmw

there are two areas that you can consider. pockets on the driver's side door or the most ideal place is a pocket on the back of the sun visor, flip it over and you cannot miss it.

Has anyone use or have a California Duster, does it really work?

sjmurray2

Yes, if you see my posts from last night, my biggest dissappointment was first, the cup holders or lack of and the sub par stereo, but my next biggest disappointment would be the arm rest. Yes, it is too low for my 5-10 frame. It does not feel natural. The Audi A6 seemed perfect when my wife and I took both cars out for test drives yesterday. I woke up thinking of these annoyances this morning and I am starting to get cold feet now about making my offer. The 3 Series actually feels better from a Driver standpoint, but I have a family of five and I think the 3 series would be tight. It blows my mind that BMW would not correct what I call three major inconveniences in a 40K+ automobile. I have never paid over $30K for a car in my life, so I want to make the right decision and be happy for the next 8 years. Scott

riez

pen101... Check out the '02 Infiniti I35. It has a nifty 2-position height adjustable center armrest. BMW et al should pay attention to it.

I'm 6'2" and find the center armrest for my '98 540i6 is perfect. No complaints. I do prefer a low driving position, with seat all the way down.

sjmurray2

The best Arm Rest I have discovered in my quest for a new car has been the Acura RL by far! Too bad it's FWD.

jeffc1

I picked up my 01 540i 6-speed on Friday night. And after driving it 3-4 hours to get home plus and 5-6 hours of tooling around, I had some comments that I wanted to make. Now my opinions are becoming a little more educated.

1. No car is perfect. But for me this is as close to perfect as I have had the pleasure of driving.

2. Bad sound system. I don't get it. With the premium soud and DSP, this car's stereo is excellent. Not competition level, but certainly a very good sounding system.

3. Heavy steering. Again I don't get it. I've thrown this car around at some very serious speends. And the car goes where you expect it to and how you expect it to. No unpleasant surprises.

4. Cup holders SUCK! But anyone that is buying a car for the cup holders is definitely looking at the wrong car

5. Engine --- Unbelievable!!! Well worth the price of admission

Again this car may not be perfect. But it is certainly in the neighborhood.

Sorry for rambling! I'm off for a drive

sjmurray2

Agree, no car is perfect, but I am unfortunately stretching my budget just to get into a 525/530 with few options.

RE: Bad sound system. I just wish I could hear/find the premium audio, as far as I can tell--it does not exsist on a 525/530 inventory car and I have checked three dealerships so far. I have to deal on an inventory car, because I cannot afford to order one. The stock stereo is bad, my Accord sounds better! I do love my audio on commutes to work.

RE: Heavy steering. No complaints.

RE: Cup holders SUCK! I don't need 18 cupholders like a Chrysler Mini Van, but one or two good ones up front for my 31 mile drive to work would be nice! Is that too much to ask a car manufacturer?

RE: Engine --- Unbelievable!!! Could not agree more and that's why I will probably buy one! I may lean back to a 3 series because of these non-features. So undecided today!

Scott

jeffc1

Agreed on the price thing. If I hadn't made the "deal of the century", I would have kept my 328i (still have it for now) and been perfectly content.

I was able to get a lease on a 540i for $530/month and only put $3000 out of pocket on it. About what I am paying for my 328i.

lgross

You should be able to pick up a 2002 for $1500 over invoice and get the options and colors that you want. The 2002 invoice may be $500 or so over the 2001 so the net is $2000 more for the 2002. The depreciation that has already occurred on the 2001 vs. the 2002 when you drive it off the lot more than makes up for the $2000.

If you are set on getting the 2001, make sure that it is 2001 invoice that the dealer is talking about and get him to eat the MACO and training.

compwhiz

Try to find a dealer that will do $1500 over MSRP in your area. It might not be possible - here in midwest, I was not able to find a dealer in Chicagoland/Wisconsin to sell me a 530 for $1500 over MSRP. I ended up with $2000 off MSRP which was $2000 over invoice coincidentally. So, the bottom line, even if you can't get $1500 over, $2000 off MSRP or $2000 over invoice, whichever works the best for you in terms of numbers should definitely be the lowest achievable figure for you.

Goosefish - go for 530, if you plan on keeping it for a while. I personally like the MID and extended computer that comes with 530(makes you feel that the only difference between 540 and 530 is the engine, which is basically mostly true). Regardless, 525 has 325's engine, and IMHO it's too slow. 525 or 530 is a JOY to drive in terms of handling, but sometimes even acceleration on 530 seems less than stellar(maybe because of the damn CDV on the manual). Also, I can tell you, my wife also has RX300, and I used to like driving it(I had 3000GT). After I got my 530, driving in RX300 seems like a torture!(but yes, it is a nice car, just the feeling is sooo loose? The handling of 5-er is the best handling of any car, and you know the turning radius of the RX300....:(

shipo

As a 530i 5-Speed driver in the waiting (mine is on order), I cannot help but ask. What is the CDV that you referred to in the previous post?

Best Regards,
Shipo

taylort

bn_shopn - I purchased by 530 w/SP from Passport BMW. I got what I believe was a good deal, $1800 over invoice. I live in near VOB but had heard bad press about getting a good deal from them. When I was at Tischer I just walked out because them seem like them didn't want my business. No one came over to help me, when I asked for help it was like I was bothering them.

pen 101 - Armrest - You are discovering the weak points on the BMW 5 series, the interior. The armrest, cup holder, comfort of the seats, sound system, etc.. (I can't get my steering wheel adjusted so I am comfortable and can see the items on the dash behind it) I usually store thing in the pockets on the side of the door.
I asked the dealer about the interior when I took my care in for an oil change and he said that people often complain about interior items/comfort items. He said that Europeans don't value the same things Americans do on the interior. The value the way the car drives. They have added comfort features to the car to please the American buyers.

riez

shipo... CDV issue comes up all the time on the Roadfly BMW 5 Series message board. There are even clinics on how to remove it. If you subscribe to Roundel (BMW CCA magazine), you'll see it mentioned there. "Tech Talk" sections of the August '01 and Feb '02 Roundel have discussions.

As Roundel's Tech Editor says, "The purpose of the CDV is thought to be to delay clutch action in order to protect drivetrain components against wear or failure resulting from 'hole shot' clutch action. The trade-off is weird shifting and clutch wear." Goes into a bit of detail about removing the CDV.

I have no qualms about the way my CPO '98 540i6 shifts. All the discussion I've seen about CDV centers on 540i6. Not sure if it is only any other 3 & 5 Series or M3 & M5. Just haven't researched as it doesn't seem to be an issue for me, my car, or way I drive.

shipo

Thanks for the info, I will get out my latest Roundel and take a look.

Best Regards,
Shipo

jwilson1

530bmw, the California duster is essential, of the same magnitude as gasoline (sort of) ... if you live where there's dust. The darker the color, the more valuable. I do my dark green every morning before the drive to work -- of course it won't take off dirt, that's the job of the hose. In between, it's the duster.

You won't like it so much the first three times you use it. But the next 250 or so will be great. Enjoy.

Take care.
Joe W.

pen101

How did you get such a low monthly on a 540i?

530bmw

Thanks for the info on Cali Duster, I may give it a try even though I still have to watch my car(thought I found a short cut without washing my car.)

john01

For those who have asked about the 525 vs. 530, there is an article on 525 in Feb. issue of Roundel. Bimmer magazine also had an article on 525 in December issue.

colt007

cmr530i & all, thanks for your responses on paint/chips/bra's. When the car comes in (2 weeks!) I'll let her go 'topless' for a while.

Colt

jobie

hello fellow BMW enthusiasts - first time poster...I've been lurking around Edmunds and Roadfly boards over the last few months trying to decide on a 3,5 or X3.0.
I'm coming off a '99 323i 5-sp lease in March - and have been studying the +/-'s of each (I doubt there is a review anywhere out there I haven't read). The 323 is the first car I still look forward to driving 3 years later, amazing. It was close, but I finally went with the 530 5-sp, PP, CWP and Xenons, $1800 over invoice. Car is due in late March / early April. (By the way, 330i is a great machine, but tight for occasional adults and my kids in back seat; as far as the X, I thought I'd miss the "car" feel and get tired of lugging around 4500lb, bad reliability, just not necessary).
I had to order the 5-sp w/out driving one, I'm just assuming the gearbox is as good or better than the 323 and a bit quicker than the 530 auto I DID test drive. Any first hand feedback is appreciated

To all - thanks for all the great info posted. Shipo, I felt like you were reading my mind on some of your 3 and 5 series comparisons - I see you also went with the 530 - good luck!

Thanks

poyote

Considering a '94 540i with 133K, a new engine with 35K on it, and an extended warranty that for the next 100K mi will pay $3000 towards engine repair and $2000 towards trans repair. Assuming the car has not been abused, any idea how stupid I am for considering this? Is this warranty worth anything, or will potential repair bills be way too high?

Thanks for any input. Cab

compwhiz

530 5-spd is an excellent choice - I'm enjoying mine every day. the gearbox and engine on 530 is the same as on 330 - if you drove the 330 5spd, you'll know what it means. 530 is a bit heavier and a bit slower than 330, but its handling and more luxurious feel more than make up for it IMHO. Enjoy!

john01

We also purchased our 530i 5 spd without a test drive as none were available in Berlin. While I thought the steptronic was the best autobox I drove, we decided on the 5 spd. We had the car for about 10 days now and it feels a lot like the E36 328 my friend has, and I don't doubt that 330 would be almost the same. I actually prefer the 5 spd on my 95 Integra, but it is very nice and smooth. Once in a while it feels a bit notchy, but we shall see if that changes with the break-in.

jeffc1

I assumed a lease of another individual through BMW FS. He must have known someone that lowered the price significantly + must have put a lot of cash into the car. All is I know is that I couldn't pass up the deal. Now I have to sell my 328i in the somewhat near future.

nyccarguy

STAY AWAY from that car. I'd say anything with a new engine is bad news. G-d knows what else is wrong with the car.

riez

poyote... Didn't pull any reference material so I can't remember if the '94 540i came in both automatic and manual. Are you talking about a 540iA? Automatic tranny life has been an issue with BMWs in 1990s.

Do you have access to complete service records? Have you run a CarFax report to get vehicle history data? If not, this is a must! Do you know the former owner(s)? Talk to them, if you can.

Who is providing the warranty? Check out the company. Warranty is only as good as the company. I'm not impressed with 99 percent of 3rd party warranties. Often too many exclusions.

Personally, unless the price is great, you have all the service records and history data, and you know all the former owners (& trust 'em), I do NOT think high mile 5 or 7 Series make much sense as used cars. Very complex. Lots can go wrong. Expensive to repair when not under warranty. Can you deduct any future repairs as business expense?

poyote

Thanks for the advice. I had started inquiries into owner and car history already, and was having the warranty faxed to me, but I guess I just needed someone to bop me on the head. I know the car is too old and of questionable shape, unfortunately I have 5 series on the brain.

Thanks again for the sound advice.

ek5

Hi!

New to this board, so forgive me if you've already hashed this out... When will the new redesigned 5 series be introduced? Motor Trend mentions 2003, but not clear if it will be introduced in late 2002 as a new 2003 model, or introduced in late 2003 as a 2004 model. Anyone know?? Also, where can we see the new specs? Thanks!

530bmw

Do you know if US military personnel gets special prices for BMW?

prk65

I am thinking of purchasing a 525i but I am constantly left comparing it to the Audi A6 3.0.
Are there any people out there who have tested both and have views one way or another? Would the 525 be considered a good safe family car being rear wheel drive and all or does the quattro factor win hands down? I really love the way the 525 feels on the road and so does my wife but winters in New Jersey could be tough. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

sjmurray2

I just went through this drill myself and have found the following:

A6 3.0 Quattro was very pleasing to drive, but a bit heavy feeling to me--still better than my current car (Accord). Cabin was very nice, more creature comforts than BMW 525 for sure. I liked the trunk size, I loved the Bose radio and the steering wheel was comfortable. However, the car scares me because it is an Audi--my memory of the 80's and early 90's will knock this car off my list. Oh, another big reason was the wife did not like it compared to the 525. Exterior styling is questionable--not sure this is going to look good 5 years from now, could be dated in a few years.

525 Manual/auto: Both configurations of 525s are thrilling to drive, more so than the Audi. The BMW is more comfortable--seats are better, and the car feels well put together to me. The BMW feels quicker--more responsive to me. I'm not sure what it says on paper, but 525 manual seemed faster than Audi. Impecable styling, the car looks good sitting still! I love the front end of this car. Not to scientific, but it's getting late and I'm tired. Hope this helps. Scott

jim52

What up front fees should I expect to pay (other than CAP cost reduction) when leasing through BMW Finance?

shipo

Here are the lines on my form from the dealership:

$0,558.29 -- First Month Payment
$0,525.00 -- CAP Reduction (I read somewhere that this is required by BMWFS)
$0,299.00 -- First Year Fees
$0,600.00 -- Security Deposit
================================
$1,982.29 -- Total
================================
$0,558.29 -- Second Month Payment (Required for ED only)
================================
$2,540.58 -- Grand Total

Best Regards,
Shipo

snagiel

No one's really sure. Up until a couple weeks ago, the prevailing theory was that BMW will introduce the new model ('E60') at the Frankfurt Auto Show next September (2003), with arrival at US dealers in early 2004. But some recent spy shots--if accurate (and they may well be bogus)--have suggested the platform is further along than thought before and that BMW may be rushing it out the door to compete with Mercedes' new E-class (due very soon). These "new" rumors now say BMW may feature the car at the Geneva show in March of next year, with arrival in Europe shortly thereafter and in the US by late summer/early fall. Some early pictures (heavily computer-aided) can be found at: http://www.bmw2002.co.uk/news.htm , but no specs have been leaked yet (aside from the presumption of the valvetronic V8 from the 745 and likely 6-cylinder versions as well).

We'll see, but personally I'd stay away from the first model year to assure they've ironed out the bugs (I've already read more than a couple nightmare stories about the new 745's electronics going berzerk).

john01

If you are a member of US military, you can purchase through the special purchasing program. The price is nonnegotiable, but it is about 12% (roughly) off the MSRP, no sales tax, no delivery fee, etc.

530bmw

Thank for the info. I assume it is US MSRP that you are referring to, can you tell me if a buyer deal directly with BMW or have to buy from a dealer in Germany?

christophers1

Have a chance to finally buy a BMW and now am trying to decide between 530 and x5. Any opinions? I have two kids 8 and 6.

jim52

Thanks again for the info. I've been told that BMW Finance has a "non-negotiable" base acquisition fee of $525. Is that somehow related to your CAP reduction figure. I haven't pulled out my paperwork from my 328 lease but I seem to remember that they may have added the 525 acquisition fee to the price of the car and then had me pay it as CAP reduction. Does this practice sound familiar to anyone?

shipo

I think that they are one in the same, what remains to be seen is whether the $525 actually reduces your CAP cost. My 328i was leased through BancOne, so I do not have any paperwork to refer to. I will try to remember to ask my dealer.

Best Regards,
Shipo

jim52

If I remember correctly, I don't believe it does. It's pretty much a wash for the leasor(may effect taxes slightly). I think I asked at the time and it works out better for them for some reason.

snagiel

I recently bought a 530i, and while I don't have any kids, I've driven around several times with two or three people (adults) in the back, who've all said it was very comfortable (except those sitting in the middle seat, which is thrust forward without side bolstering).

I haven't driven an X5 (but have sat in one), and didn't find the interior room any greater than the 5-series. Of course, there's more cargo room in back, but not much. In fact, I think the 525 and 540 wagons have more cargo room.

From a driver's perspective, there's no real comparison. Against a 530i manual, only the X5 4.6si (nearly $70k) is faster. And, while the X5 handles very well FOR AN SUV, it's nowhere near as nimble and comfortable as the 5-series, owing mainly to its heft (more than 1000 pounds heavier than the 530) and higher center of gravity. When equipped with the sport package, the X5 is reportedly extremely jittery and uncomfortable, even if it does outhandle other SUVs on the skidpad.

pgill

I noticed the same thing when I leased my cars (they add acquisition fee to the price of your car then take it out as cap cost reduction). When I asked my dealer about it, he gave me some spiel about how that's required in NJ. I just checked the math to make sure the amount was same at both ends before signing the papers. I think this is confusing and can be a source of "honest" mistake for shady dealers. I'm not sure about the tax consequences.

prk65

Does anyone have any experience on how the 5 series especially 525i handles New Jersey winters?
Are snow tires a must? Is this considered a safe family car? The wife wants the Acura MDX but I am trying to talk her into the 525. We test drove it and loved it, but I am worried about safety? All wheel drive vs. rear wheel etc. Any help is greatly appreciated.

pgill

I owned a 528iA through last 3 NJ winters. This winter has been mild, but if you remember, we had fair amount of snow last winter. My 528iA was a daily driver for 30 mile (each way) commute everyday and I had no problems last winter. I found the traction control to be extremely effective on slippery driving surfaces. I didn't have snow tires but if you use some common sense, I think a 525i can handle 95% of driving conditions. Sure, AWD will provide better traction going forward, but heavier SUVs will usually take longer to stop on slippery driving surfaces. As far as safety goes, I believe BMW 5-series are one of the safest cars on the road. If you are considering a MDX, I think other factors should be considered more than RWD vs AWD (e.g., cargo space, third row seats, driving dynamics, etc). Hope this helps. Good luck.

prk65

Does anyone have any experience on how the 5 series especially 525i handles New Jersey winters?
Are snow tires a must? Is this considered a safe family car? The wife wants the Acura MDX but I am trying to talk her into the 525. We test drove it and loved it, but I am worried about safety? All wheel drive vs. rear wheel etc. Any help is greatly appreciated.

nyccarguy

This sounds like a job for...Shipo.

AWD vs RWD...first thing you need to know is that AWD helps you start, but does nothing but add weight which will decrease your stopping distance.

The 5 series is one of the safest cars on the road.

95% of the driving conditions can be handled fine if you have All Season Tires (Standard on non Sport Package equipped cars) by the traction control and dynamic stability control. If you want snow tires, they will help get you started in snowy/icy conditions. The near 50/50 weight distribution of the BMW will also help you control the car.

I'm from Rockland County. Its the first county in NY at the top of the NJ border. During the Blizzard of '96 which was the worst that we've had in a long time, my mother got along fine in her 1990 Mercedes-Benz 300E with 4 snow tires, 2 sand bags in the trunk, and NO TRACTION CONTROL. Your wife shopuld do fine in a 525i.

nyccarguy

Curb weight:

525i: 3450 lbs
MDX: 4416 lbs

If you want to talk about safety and snow driving, the thing you should be worried about most is trying to avoid an accident, not getting to the mall when the kids have a snow day. The MDX is carrying around an extra 966 lbs of weight. The 525i will stop sooner. One of BMWs philosiphies is that the best way to survive an accident is to avoid one.