BMW 5-Series Sedans

bobliz1

BMWNation.com indicates that integrated child seats are an option. Does anyone know if this is similar to the integrated child seats in Volvos? In some Volvos, the seat cushions in the rear are designed to pop up, functioning as booster seats for toddlers. This is a neat feature because it eliminates having to install/remove booster car seats.

Lasty, does anyone have any comments about the practicality of self leveling suspension in the touring models? Does it work well and is it worth having? Any comments will be appreciated.

john01

The integrated child seat is probably not-for-US option. I have never seen it mentioned in the US car spec anywhere, but I know it is a common option for MB in Germany. My guess is that it is one of those we do not get in the US. The website you refer to list options that are only available in Europe and other parts of the world.

bluewater5

Tomorrow, I get my 530 locally, so this is my last posting on ED tourist info. I hope I am not boring people. Continuing the saga ...

We stayed in Odsbach near Oberkirch in the Black Forest area. This is more of a European vacation spot less overrun by Americans. They do speak some English and French besides German, but it is not as prevalent as English in Munich or Salzburg.

Freiberg was interesting and worth a drive through. Between the two, there is nice scenary and drives and a few towns overly dedicated to tourism. An example of the latter is the Cuckoo Clock store that had an animated figure greating you in English. There were also a one or two US-style condo/apartment buildings that looked way out of place. Still, this can be ignored as you enjoy the rest of the area.

The driving in this area is great, although it can be dangerous if you are too aggressive passing. Some of the lesser highways have more curves and less traffic. Some of the more major ones (not meaning the Autobahn A5) can get crowded. I did pass a few times, enjoying the power of the 530. The gearing is higher than my Subaru, and once I realized I should have dropped to 3rd while at maybe 42 instead of waiting for 4th gear.

Reims was a one-night stop on the way to Paris. Oberkirch to Reims was a relaxing drive and the first time I used cruise control. There is a person at the border but everyone seemed to just drive through. We toured the cathedral and went on the Tattinger tour. This was a nice stop so we had time to get settled into Paris the next day.

As we approached Paris, the traffic slowed to a crawl. At first, we were on more major roads that at least people acknowledged had lanes to stay in. As you got into Paris, drivers would create lanes wherever there was a little room. Just when things get tight, a few motorcylces would create a few more lanes, weaving around the cars. You would crawl for blocks. This was also mid-day (somewhere between 11:00 and 2:00), so it was not rush hour yet.

At first, we had trouble finding our hotel. The "street" it was on turned out to be a 1-way alley with an entrance that looks more like a driveway. There were removeable barriers on the sidewalk. After asking the front desk, they unlock and collapse these so you can park your car by pulling up on the curb. After unloading and checking in, we drove to the dropoff on Ave. Foch. Just getting out of the alley was a challenge. There were just a few inches to spare on each side, and I rubbed the tires against the sidewalk a few times. I crawled through the alley exit, thankful I made it through okay. The only "damage" is that someone had knocked the side-view mirror walking by, not being patient enough to wait for me to drive through. But this was easily snapped back into place.

Then, it was back to the Paris streets. The last bit of fun in the circle around the Arc de Triomphe. There are many spokes hitting this circle. I drove in a circle, but some try to drive diagonally across. In general, it is a free for all. I stayed near the outside blue line and let myself be cut off to be safe. Finally, we entered the Shell garage. One tip: pull right into the parking area before the gas pumps. I had pulled forward and then had to backup. A friendly gas station attendant stopped traffic while I did this.

Without the car, we enjoyed Paris. The subway system is pretty good. One annoying thing is the stairs and sometimes long walks to make transfers. It did seem that the Munich subway system had better handicap access. We carried all of our luggage from the airport in Munich and to the airport in Paris, taking a local subway and transferring to rail in both. Munich was definitely the easier system to haul luggage in.

I won't go into Paris in that much detail since you can pick up better information in many books and web sites. I will note that my 10 & 12 year old daughters did not care for the Louvre (too boring) but enjoyed D'Orsay and more modern paintings more. We also hit Versailles. It was worth it, but skip it if you have less than 3 days in Paris. We had not planned it (and had explicitly planned against it), but we hit Disneyland Paris our last day. Our kids had done so well touring museums, churches, etc., and we had hit most of what we had wanted to see, so we gave them a treat. Still, the differences from Orlando and Anaheim are small.

Enough of the past. Tomorrow, I get to drive on US roads.

cotmc

I saw your same question in the "Used Luxury vs New" topic. It's amazing how everyone jumped on the bandwagon over there and started to bash BMW reliability! (It's a shame that people have had bad experiences with the early X5 models and then jump to conclusions about the entire BMW line.)

I personally would recommend that you bypass that particular '99 car. Defects such as a bad A/C compressor and power steering fluid leaks seem pretty severe for a car with only 34K miles on it. As you pointed out, the service history seems to have too many defect codes. Keep in mind the certified warranty doesn't provide the same bumper-to-bumper coverage of the original warranty, and there is a $50 charge for each service visit.

For what it's worth, I have owned a couple of 3-series cars in the past, and they were among the most reliable cars I've ever owned. Just two weeks ago I purchased a certified 2000 528i sport premium with 29K miles. I'm very pleased with it. The service record for this car was fairly short. BMWs may not have as good of a reliability record as Lexus, but both the 3-series and 5-series have better than average repair records, as reported in recent issues of Consumer Reports. Don't accept a high number of repairs as "par for the course".

Keep looking for other CPO opportunities. A 5-series with the sport and premium package is an awesome car! One additional note: If you can afford a '00 model, the automatic tranny is the improved 5-speed steptronic transmission.

m3guynj

A local dealer here in northern NJ has offered me a 2003 525i (Steptronic, Premium, Cold Weather, Fold-down rear seats) for $1600 over actual 2003 invoice, to be delivered between mid Oct and mid Nov. The exact price won't be known until actual prices are released, but he will guarantee it to be $1600 over invoice. Is anyone else shopping 2003's, and does this sound like a reasonable deal? Thanks for any comments.

snagiel

Sounds good, considering it'll be for a new model when he'll probably still have '02 models lying around (on which you'll likely be able to do better than $1600 over invoice). Shipo's dealer (also in northern NJ, although I can't recall the name) has offered to extend a $1500 over invoice deal to others, so you might save a bit more. If he doesn't chime in here, search up.

nyccarguy

is Mike Weber at Park Avenue BMW in Maywood, NJ. His $1500 over invoice deal only applies to ED cars I believe.

nyca

I think $1600 over invoice for an early 2003 is pretty good. Of course, the 2002 leftovers would be (and should be) less. I'll be looking at Circle BMW for my 2003. I would think the real blowout deals would start in march 2003 if indeed the E60 arrives in June, but I can't wait until then.

mschukar

I've been on vacation for a few days and just saw your comments...

I have no idea who Tim Wright is. The site I posted was the second hit on Google when I typed in "oil filter life cycle". My point was that a simple web search easily confirmed what I was saying. This stuff is well known, common knowledge in the industry.

Yeah, I'm sure I could hunt down some SAE papers my coworkers have presented, but I'll leave it up to you to do your own research since you seem like the kind of guy who has to travel to Japan to prove it's there.

I don't dare ask about your religious thoughts ;-)

-murray

div2

LOL!!!

riez

mschukar... When it comes to issues that can be resolved conclusively on the basis of scientific evidence, I prefer the evidence. Guess I'm just not one of those people who believes everything he reads on the internet. Many others would do well to follow same advice. Ever notice how much pseudo-science garbage floats around out here? Or how many people fall for it? But then again I don't tend to believe much in way of advertising or personal testimonies or anecdotal evidence. Wonder how much time could be saved by people who argue ad infinitem over motor oils, filters, additives, octane, tires, etc. if they just would let unbiased scientific research do the talking.

riez

Periodically the issue of the relative worth or value of various 5 Series comes up. For example, is it worth it to buy a base 540iA or 540i6 versus a loaded 530i. Found a column, by Jon Mark Calabrese, in the August 2002 issue of BMW CCA Roundel magazine most interesting. Think he captures the issues quite nicely and succinctly. Here are a few of his thoughts about getting a 5 Series:

"a new 540i is out of the question; configured the way I'd want it ... its $55,000 price tage it a little beyond our means ... My compromise suggestion is the new 530i ... one equipped with all my favorite options. Still, at $49,000 it's not cheap either. That sends me looking at used market, where I find I can get a used 540i six-speed with most of the options I'd want for about $40,000. At this price I also find that there are lots of 740i sport models available."

Will be interesting to see what he ends up getting.

bmwluver

Am distracted and annoyed by the airbag warning signs that appear on the visors of my new BMW 530.
How do you get these darn things off? Local BMW dealer says I'm stuck with them and reports that many people ask about removing them.

snagiel

They've never bothered me that much, but here's what I've read others have had luck doing:

Heat up the sticker with a hair dryer. Slowly peel it back--it should come off clean. For remaining adhesive, use Goo-be-gone or similar adhesive remover.

chesdin3

I must hang my head in shame and admit that my 530 gets parked outside. Anyway, I've collected some drips of pine tree sap here and there. Does anybody have any suggestions for removing these without also taking off the paint...?

I'd appreciate any advice, Thanks.

colt007

Time for a car wash I get this stuff on my baby all the time at my in-laws house. There should be a law against plantings trees that omit this stuff. Mix your car wash stuff with warm water, get a good car wash mit & go for it. Come right off for me.

Colt.

snagiel

A good carwash shampoo is usually too mild to deal with tree sap, especially if it's baked in and become tenacious. I've used P21S Total Auto Wash with success for small sap blobs (you're not the only one who parks outside) on my 530. Check out: http://www.carcareonline.com/p21_autowash_10407.html.

colt007

You're right snagiel. I never let it bake on. I've been known to come home at 8 or 9pm & wash that stuff off in my garage. I'm DINKY (Double Income No Kids Yet) so I have some extra time.

Colt.

jim52

My wife accidently kicked the seat adjustment control (the one that moves the seat up/down, front/back) and broke it off. Not only is the plastic handle broken (which I could simply replace) but the little plastic "joystick" that is attached to the seat broke off too. Has anyone had this happen and if so:
1. what parts will I need
2. how much do they cost
3. and how easy is it for me to fix.

I can only imagine what the dealer would charge for the labor.

chesdin3

...I'll order some of that cleaner and try it out.

sharris

Anyone know when MY 2003 pricing info will be available? I'm looking at ordering a 2003 530i, but would like to have invoice price info before starting in on negotiations with dealers. Thanks.

riez

Roundel magazine has two interesting factoids in latest issue. The number of buyers worldwide ordering the optional sport packages has risen dramatically. From only about 2,000 in mid-1990s to over 55,000 in 2001. Too bad they don't break it down by for USA. Also points out that in USA over the past decade, the build-to-order percentage has risen from 10 percent to over 30 percent. I'd love to know how many build-to-order buyers are getting sport package.

Is so hard to find CPO 5 Series with Sport Pkg. Been trying to find one for my wife. MY '99 or 00. Seems like 95 plus percent of CPO 528i came only with Premium Pkg. But fact wife has to have automatic likely also making the search harder.

cotmc

You must live in an area where the Sport Pkg isn't very popular. I was shopping for a CPO 5 Series during the past few weeks, and I found well over half of the 1999 and 2000 5-series CPOs at my two local dealers to be equipped with the Sport Package. In fact, I can't recall seeing a '99 or '00 528i that was NOT equipped with the Sport Pkg. I also saw three different '99 540i models -- all 6spds! I think the Sports versions are very popular option here due to our warm climate (Arizona). No need to worry about snow or all season tires!

I ended up buying a '00 528i with Sport Premium, sunroof, and steptronic. It is glacier green with the excellent stone green and black interior. Since your wife needs an automatic, I recommend the '00MY if you go with a 528i, as the '99MY 528i still had a 4sp tranny. Regardless of which model you choose, I totally agree with anyone who limits his search to models with the Sport Suspension! Hope you have better luck soon with your search.

snagiel

Ask and ye shall receive...

http://bimmer.roadfly.org/bmw/pricing/2003/2003_e39_retail.pdf

sharris

Thanks, that's great for retail prices, but I'm especially looking for invoice pricing info. I know it will be on Edmunds eventually, but I want to start negotiations now, and I want to base my offer, and eventual negotiated price, on a margin over invoice.

patelli

So i pulled into a parking spot to quickly and gently bumped the curb with my 2002 530. After that the car had a shimmy that began at 55 mph and disipated to a slight yet noticeable level above 70.

Dealer balanced all 4 wheels. They claimed they were "slightly" out of balance.

But I still notice the steering wheel isn't rock solid smooth. Have I become too sensitive now?

Does anyone else experience this? Is your wheel sperfectly smooth at hwy speeds?

plasticmd

I'm not sure if this helps anyone but I ordered a 2003 530i..steptronic, premium, cold weather, lumbar, heated steering wheel, xenons..for $1500.00 BELOW MSRP...Now I'm leasing so not sure if same deal would apply to purchasing. I'm in Long Island, NY.

snagiel

You're right; sorry, I didn't read the whole document and didn't notice invoice prices weren't listed. If you want a ballpark figure, it's probably safe to assume the same percentage spread will carry over between 2002 and 2003 prices, if you want to do the math. But it gets a little tricky, since the sunroof now comes standard, so the base price is higher but the premium package is cheaper. Nevertheless, when 2003 invoice prices are available, they'll probably be posted at http://www.eurobuyers.com/ first.

snagiel

Many, many folks (who haven't bumped into any curbs) have complained about the E39 wheel shimmy (often reported around 55mph). Blame has been assigned to tire flat spots, wheel alignment and/or balance, among other things. So, if you're sure the curb incident produced (or worsened) the shimmy, you may have slighly bent the wheel or the tire's sidewall.

bartalk2

What's the feeling on whether there will be good prices on remaining '03s next years just before the new models are introduced? That's usually the case with other manufacturers (Honda is giving away their '02s before the new Accord comes out next month), but BMW dealers never seem to have a lot of cars on their lots and seem to order them almost one by one on special order. One Chicago dealer said that something like 80% of his cars are ordered special. Thus, they may not have a lot of cars to sell next spring.

Or am I missing something?

snagiel

Indeed, once the E65 started to appear in showrooms last fall, rumors circulated of major discounts on old 7-series models. I suspect something similar may occur with the '03 5-series, but not until the new models are much closer to arriving. They're currently more than a year away, so I doubt most dealers will negotiate anything special.

riez

Pricing of final 2002s and new 2003 will ultimately depend upon supply and demand. BMW can and does adjust production levels as they see fit. Would be interesting to see what happened to E38 7 Series production before the new E65 745i came out. Thinking BMW likely cut back production and production was adversely impacted due to the need to switchover. If MY 2002 E39 production declines, then doubt prices will decline by much. Some decline likely, but doubt steep discounting off MSRP or fire-sale pricing.

And if many buyers like the old styling over new styling, demand may actually spike for MY 2002s. In that case, realized prices by buyers might actually increase.

tomjava

You have to wait till next year as snagiel said. FYI, In San Francisco/bay area, MB dealers are offering discount up to $6000.00 on the remaining 2002 E320 and E430.

m3guynj

I was just quoted the following Invoice prices for a 525i (northern NJ):
Base Price 34375
Steptronic 1210
Premium Package 2000
Cold Weather 545
Fold down rear seats 430
Destination 695
It looks like any options which are the same as 2002 have the same invoice price for 2003. My deal on the car is $1600 over invoice + $200 for Doc and Registration fees.

slane4

Just bought a '97 540i with the Nav System and TV. I only have the screen in front, not rear and manual says TV will not come on there for safety reasons. However, someone told me I could disarm the safety feature to get TV reception on the front screen. Anyone know how to do this?

bartalk2

Another factor in BMW pricing in the next year or so is the declining dollar against the Yen and Euro. If it continues, European and Asian manufacturers may raise prices (and Detroit will follow). If we have that double dip recession and the dollar continues to fall, buy your cars sooner rather than later because inflated import prices will be right around the corner.

Or am I overlooking something?

riez

bartalk2... Dollar has declined significantly relative to the euro. BMW AG does its accounting in euros. Latest issue of BMW CCA Roundel has small article, attributed to the Thomson Financial Corporate Group, on it: "strengthen[ing] euro against the dollar, further undermining European exporters to the U.S. A leading broker has said that carmakers Porsche, BMW, VW/Audi, and Mercedes are most exposed to the strengthening euro."

When the euro appreciates relative to the dollar, BMW has to charge more dollars to maintain the same euro return. Of course, BMW has some options. One would be to hold dollar prices and allow profits to fall. Doubt BMW will de-content cars to hold line on prices. Seems like BMW is up-contenting. That would likely increase pricing pressure.

But who knows what will happen to euro over next year. What goes up can come down again.

metmdx

Hi all:

Haven't been here in a while but wanted to "surface" again to tell I finally took the plunge and bought a CPO 99 528i. Sienna red with sand interior 32k on the clock and not a ding to be found. Looks like it just rolled out of the factory. Picked it up July 4th weekend and have about 1800 on it so far (and loving every mile).
Coming out of a '96 Accord EXV6, I feel like I've gone from the dinghy to the racing yacht. Not that the Accord is a bad car, but this machine is unbeliveable. Thanks to all (reiz, shippo, et. al) that have answered my sometimes trivial questions, but I don't throw 33K around lightly.

Bought from BMW in Greenwich. They were very accomodating (except on the price) and I would highly recommend if you go there, talk with David Burton. Very nice chap from London who is not your "typical" car salesman. Very straighforward and personable. Made the whole car buying experience acutally close to enjoyable (contrary to what I was expecting). All the people I dealt with (3 in all) made me feel like they wanted my business. Contrary to Westchester BMW where I browsed their CPO location on 3 different ocassions for at least 10-15 minutes and never had a salesperson even think about approaching me (good thing they didn't have a car I was interested in).

Others have made commments pro and con about the car so here's my take.
Pro: Quiet ride, handles great even without SP, feels so much larger than my Honda even though the exterior specs are almost identical, feels like I'm driving a Sherman tank compared to other vehicles (safety issue). I understand why they call it a "cockpit"; driving at nite with stereo and climate control on, I feel like I'm in a 767 with all the orange lighting (not too bright) and the blue dots on the temp controls. Not a rocket ship, but sufficient power to "survive" the NY suburban traffic. Love the auto down psgr mirror for backing up as well as the remote windows down/sunroof open features.

Con (Some of which are repeated for the xth time in this board but NOTHING that would make me not want to buy another): Cupholders (location and function - or lack thereof), no auto door lock/unlock when puting in gear/shutting ignition off, stereo in my Honda sounded better ( this one has no "low end torque") and there is not enough differentiation in the volume dial (you have to turn it damn near 360 to get some semblance of volume increase). I find that very strange in a car that listed for 45K new. No storage in center console, and I'm having trouble adjusting to seeing the red security light hanging off the bottom of the rear view mirror every time I look in it.They say you can put three sets of golf clubs in the trunk, but I think they were using "junior" sets when they did. Have 6 CD changer in trunk - would rather have in dash.

Anyway, been very busy, but wanted to get "back in the game" here. Going to the Cape next week. Will be first "road trip" in the new ride and will let you know additional impressions.

Regards,
metmdx

patelli

Does anyone know of a source for connecting into the hands-free pre-wiring in our cars for phones other than those BMW offers? I have a Nokia 8290 and would like to use my 5'ers built in mic, speakers and antenna.

I saw some info on bmwtips.com, but I don’t want to do mess with making wiring harnesses.

Thanks,
Patelli

sjmurray2

Is the radio in the 5 series the same as the radio in the 3 series? If so, does Harmon Kardon upgrade in the 3 series make a big difference?

snagiel

If you want to integrate with the onboard connections for a cell phone (which conveniently only works with the proprietary BMW-Motorola 8000 phone), you have few options. I don't think I've heard of anyone successfully utilizing all the possible features (including voice-activated dialing via wheel button input) with anything other than the BMW-installed phone. It's a ridiculous price to pay for a hands-free system ($1500-$2000 for all the parts and installation labor). But if you're on the road a lot and need to be on the phone, it's a reasonable price to pay for driving safely.

I suppose you have some "in-between" choices with those cigarette-plugin cell phone cradles that charge your phone and allow some degree of hands-free operation, but I doubt the quality will be great, and it'll be somewhat of an eyesore in the dash.

snagiel

No, the standard radio receiver between the 5- and 3-series is not interchangeable. I've heard relatively goood reviews about the HK system in the 3-series (some have argued it's better than the premium system in the 5-series). Personally, I think both premium systems are fairly good and probably worth the money, depending on your ears and the type of music you listen to.

rgregg

I am looking at a 2002 530i automatic, premium sport package, xenon lts, with 7500 miles for about $42,800. Terrific condition. Thoughts on the price? Also, will the new body style have a big impact on this 2002 car's value in 2 years, or will it generally hold its value given that the new body is going to be at a much higher price point. Lastly, any thoughts on whether the premium sound system is worth the money in the 5-Series?

nyca

dealer invoice for a brand new 2002 530ia/PP/SP/Xenon is 42750, MSRP 47170 from what I see (unless there are some options in it you have not mentioned). Try and do a deal for a leftover 2002 (2003 production starts 9/2), you might be able to get it for $1000 over invoice, but you would have to take whatever equipment it had of course.

If you have you heart set on this used one, offer $38K.

rgregg

Thanks for advice on price. Any thoughts on what impact the new body will have on 2002's value 2 years from now?

jr51

1. Looking for information re fold down rear seats in the 2002/2003 530
Any difference in seating comfort ?
I note that 530 seats without the fold down feature have somewhat of a "hump" in the center arm rest.
Any known plans to change the location of the fold down latch which is visible on the seat ?
2. Live in MA. does anyone who lives in New England NOT put snows on in the winter, especially w/ the near 50/50 weight distribution, Stability Control and Traction Control

snagiel

It's difficult to predict. While it's safe to assume there'll be a larger-than-regular drop in value from the 2003 models to the 2004 (as opposed to the 2002 to the 2003 models), the degree will vary on several factors. Once the new 7-series appeared last fall in showrooms, old 740's were desperately being sold by dealers for nearly anything above invoice, and ads for 2000 750iL's going for $45k (which retailed for $90k) abounded. But BMW's in general hold their resale value very well. I bought my '02 530i with full awareness of all this, since I wanted the best car for the money, today. Might it lose half its value by 2005? Sure, but the smiles it'll generate along the way will be worth every penny. If you're terribly concerned about resale value, look into leasing.

snagiel

1. Yes, the fixed seat is more contoured and has plusher padding. Young kids might not notice the difference, but grown-ups sure will. I've also heard some with the fold-down seat complain the latch rattles occasionally, but I'm sure there are WD-40 fixes around that. But if you need the practicality of carrying long objects, I wouldn't hesitate to order them.
2. I grew up and learned to drive in Massachusetts, although I've never driven my 530 up there. I'm sure you could get through winter without winter/ice tires, but I'd shy away from driving through any accumulations above a dusting, and certainly stay away from ice-capped hills. For your safety, a $1000 investment in 16-inch steel wheels and Blizzaks will go a long way towards peace of mind.

sjmurray2

Thanks for the info, but I was not referring to interoperability between the two, just level of performance. IMHO, the 3 series stock system sounds better than the 5 series stock sound system, do you all agree?

bluewater5

I took local delivery of my 530i on Tuesday. There was various damage on the driver's side, including minor problems (small dent and paint damage) on the doors and a large scrape (over 5" long and maybe 0.25" wide) behind the rear door. It is on the side but part of the lower bumper.

I took delivery from another sales person since mine was on vacation. I can understand they would not want to deal with another person's sale, but I did not even get a call back. My sales person (Mike Weber at Park Ave. BMW in NJ) returns tomorrow, so I hope he will deal with it.

Any ideas on what needs to be done on the bumper area? I hope the doors can be fixed easily. The lower bumper is molded so I am not sure what needs to be done. I want to know what is reasonable to ask for when I talk to Mike, hopefully tomorrow.