BMW 5-Series Sedans

riez

snagiel... Completely concur. BMW needs to be worrying more about eliminating weight and reducing complexity. Who needs bloat and overengineering? Light weight and simplicity have certain inherent advantages. The new Z4 makes me appreciate how wonderful the original MX-5 Miata was in 1990. If trends continue, wondering if BMW won't be moving itself out of the luxury sport market it dominates and into MB's and Jag's sport luxury market? Give me nice simple gauges & controls and well thought out ergonomics over the I-drive monstrosity. And the thought of a V-10 sickens me in comparison to silky smooth I-6 or V-8. Drop weight and you won't need more cubic inches. Could you see Ferrari building 4,200 pound car?

habitat1

As an M5 owner, I'm probably biased, but here are my thoughts:

The horsepower wars are going a little crazy and the results are likely to be less than desireable. The current M5 has more power than 99% of drivers can fully handle. Hell, the 540i 6-speed has more than about 97% could handle. I sure as hell hope BMW doesn't go in the wrong direction just to keep up with AMG's recent craziness. The reason I bought an M5 over an E55 wasn't related to power. It was related to handling, dynamics and a lot of other subjective factors (not to mention a 6-speed). Now AMG is supposedly putting close to 500 hp in their latest E55 offering. IMO, they are fixing what isn't broken and not fixing what is. The new E55 is going to be an overweight rocket. Period.

Second, the M5 is not an M3. It is a four/five passenger sedan. Let's not forget that. While 4000 lbs sounds like a lot on paper, may I remind you that the Ferrari 475 does indeed weigh 3,800+ lbs and seats two. The M5 was not designed to compete with a 3,000 lb. 360 Modena. So, while I don't want to see the M5 add weight to both make and support more horsepower, I'm not sure I want BMW try to lighten it up with a super/turbo engine. I have over 9k miles in less than 5 months on my M5, heading to 20k per year for at least the next 3-4 years. I am very skeptical of how some of the supercharged engines will hold up, as a friend of mine has already had problems with his AMG SLK32 at 25k miles. It's not falling apart, but it's not running as smoothly as it did new.

P.S. The rack and pinion steering on the 530i sport is still my personal favorite, but the M5 (and 540i) still beat anything in their class produced by Mercedes, Audi or the other wannabes.

lacaroline

Hi everyone,
I know this seems bizarre but between my
BMW brochure and the website I'm having a hard time figuring out the Oxford Green Metallic,
it looks like a medium green but then the swatch
appears to be closer to black. I would go to local BMW dealers but there aren't any of the greens to look at.

Thanks
LA Caroline

snagiel

Although the M5 isn't designed to compete with the M3 (or Modena), there's no reason it can't be lighter. There is hope, since I've read reports the next 5-series will incorporate lighter (and more sophisticated) suspension components.

And I agree about the horsepower wars. There were three of us (each about 180 pounds) in that M5 on the track, and it just catapulted from one corner to another. The power was incredible. Why you would need more than that, I have no idea. But as these cars are laden with more creature comforts and safety devices, they get heavier and heavier. And it's much easier to obtain, say, another 50 horsepower for the M5 than to shed 500 pounds (each a 12.5% improvement in power-to-weight). I, for one, would be far more impressed if the next M5 maintained its 400 horsepower rating but managed to weigh in at 3500 pounds. But, of course, that won't happen, so the power games continue.

(The supercharger comment was a hasty one, but just because MB has issues with a certain type doesn't mean they're inherently unreliable.)

musher2

I picked up an Oxford Green 530i last month, and I can appreciate how hard it is to judge the color via the brochure or website. Frankly, neither medium is accurate. The only way to tell is to look at a car in-person, and even then, it will look a bit different depending on the circumstances (e.g. outdoors/indoors, sunny/cloudy, etc.).

The best website rendering of the color, oddly enough, can be found at tirerack.com.

I'm not surprised you're having trouble finding an Ox Green 5er to look at, as most dealers don't have many 5's in stock of ANY color, let alone this one. I finally found an Ox Green 330i, so don't limit your search to the 5-series and you may find one to look at.

FWIW, my car almost never looks black to me, except at night with minimal incandescent lighting. It almost always looks like a deep, rich shade of green, and a number of people have commented on it favorably. I picked the color because (1) I've always liked dark green and (2) I like car colors that you don't see every day. Not to besmirch traditional Bimmer colors like Titanium Silver, but personally, I don't want to see identical versions of my car going down the highway every day, and with Ox Green, I don't.

Finally, if you do settle on Ox Green, check it out with the Stone Green/Black interior combination. The brochure would have you believe that's an option only with the lighter Slate Green exterior, but that's not true. The dealer input the Stn Gr/Blk interior along with the Ox Green ext when he placed my order, and the factory didn't balk at all. Very nice combination, methinks.

erickpl

I have an oxford green 2002 325xi.

I have pictures located at http://community.webshots.com/user/skimblz_.

Pictures are from a variety of angles, so hopefully you can get an idea of what the color is like. In my opinion, the new Oxford Green (Color code 430 on the 3er) is a lot greener than the older version, with a bit less of a blue hue to it.

I personally have the Natural Brown leather and wood trim and love that green/brown combination.

-Paul

jhammell

I cannot find the brake diameter listed anywhere for the 2002 530i. Anyone out there have the answer ?

Thx,

JH

lacaroline

Thanks for the advice, the web address and Paul's picture made it much easier to see the green, that plus another description as "traditional British racing green."

Like Musher2 said, I am gravitating towards a unique color because white, black and silver seem to be standard issue in SoCal.

My only concern was that it was very close to black, since I prefer a lighter color.

Thanks again!
LA Caroline

lgross

Take a look at my 2002 Oxford Green Metallic at

http://home.earthlink.net/~bmw530ia/ . It's a great color and very deceptive depending on the light. It appears as anything from black to a dark green and in bright sunlight even a little lighter. Since there are quite a few silver and black ones on the road, it's nice to have something a little different.

john01

According to October issue of Bimmer magazine, 11.7 inch, ventilated discs, front and rear.

nat15

Does anybody know if the E34, especially between 1990 and 1995, was made without having a sunroof as standard equipment? I would love to get a 525i but am having troubles with headroom (I'm 6' 5") - even with the seat in the lowest possible position. Perhaps there are some aftermarket seats that allow a lower sitting position?

sharris

Hi all,

Thanks to so many of you who have been a wealth of good advice. I now have my 2003 530i on order for ED. Delivery date is 10/28/02. Looks like weather will be pretty cold (at least by Northern California standards), though hopefully not too frigid or snowy. Anyone been there around that time of year? Any suggestions on where to stay in Munich? My priorities are (a) not too expensive, (b) must have own bathroom, (c) good location for walking to sites, restaurants, etc. I'll probably be there for two nights before I get the car (on a Monday). Thanks!

erickpl

Caroline,

I know what you mean. Part of my decision was to get a color not everybody has, like the silvers, blues, and blacks. I've always been a deep green fan, and wanted something that would stand out. At night, it can appear black, as many other cars in that color type can, but at night, who cares. But in the sun or during the day (clouds? what are clouds?), it is most definitely a green.

Where in california are ya?

It doesn't hide dirt very well, but does so much better than my black Honda.

lacaroline

Thanks everyone for the help on the shades
of green, it makes a big difference compared to
the lame swatches and BMW website variances.

I have yet to see the slate green metallic so I am leaning towards ordering the Oxford green,
looks nice, I just had a dark green Infinti before and it was hard to keep clean( closer to
black than green)

I'm in Los Angeles area (hence the LA Caroline, you didn't think Louisiana did you?)

(:
LA Caroline

snagiel

I haven't done ED, so I can't answer most of your questions. But I will say this: When travelling in Europe last summer with my girlfriend (who became my fiance during the trip), I too had seedy images of youth hostels with respect to shared bathrooms. But, when our hotel in Florence lost our reservation, we found a nearby family-owned small hotel that was well-reviewed in Frommer's. Sure enough, the two restrooms and showers were shared among the five guest rooms, but they were immaculately clean (more so than some of the private bathrooms we had in other hotels) and spacious (and the room was charming as well). Heck, one of them even had a great view out to the Duomo. And we spent only about $40 a night there.

tonka

Anybody have recent experience to share regarding prices on a 2002/2003 530i in the Southern California area? Does $1500 over invoice sound like a good deal? I'll take a 2002 if I can find what I want, but I suspect I'll end up ordering a 2003.

Thanks.

rogerab

I would like to know when the 5 Series will be changing to a new design and are pictures available?.

snagiel

$1500 over is considered to be a good deal, but by September/October you'll probably be able to find even better deals on dealer's remaining 2002 model inventories, if you don't mind buying a car that will "age" a year within a month.

snagiel

It will be introduced next September at the Frankfurf auto show, and arrive in the US later in 2003. There aren't any conclusive spy shots yet, but most "computer-enhanced" version have been similar to http://www.bmw2002.co.uk/news.htm, about 2/5ths of the way down the page.

goose1207

Which model years of the current generation 5-series comes standard with Dynamic Stability Control? I've seen websites that say it was standard on the 540i w/ stick shift beginning in '97 through now. I've seen another website that says it has been standard on all 540i's regardless of transmission since '97. I've seen websites that say it was std equip. on the 528i beginning in '99 and others that have said it became avail. as an option in the '99 model year on the 528i.

I am looking to purchase a pre-owned 528i or 540i (current generation) and definitely want a manual transmission and the DSC. Which model years will have the DSC in these cars? I'm hoping someone can give me a straight answer since the dealers don't seem to know either.

erickpl

No, I figured California. Whereabouts? Inland or near the ocean? I live in the mountains near Edwards AFB.

-Paul

lacaroline

Hi,
In my quest for 2002 530i prices I found several dealerships that would take invoice or just slightly above BUT the colors extremely limited, black and silvers, nothing else.

I concentrated my search in greater LA, SFV, and my homebase Santa Clarita. (Paul you're a bit further inland!)

After a month of searching and angst, I am going with a 2003.
LA Caroline

mseals

Hello people, I have a question for all you 5 series owners out there. I have the opportunity to purchase a 5 series but I have to choose. They are optioned out the same:

1997 528i 87k miles, prem. pkg, cd chngr
$16250

or

1998 528i 115k miles, prem pkg, cd chngr
$14700

Which do I go with, the lower miles and higher price or lower price and higher miles?

sambeam

Hi:

So you just placed your order and 10/28 is the
delivery date? Is it taking about 2 months?

Also, are there NEW colors available for
2003 525 ? Do dealers have the new prices
and new catalogs?

La Caroline:
How much over invoice did you pay? If you
can tell us? At which dealership?

Thanks!!

erickpl

LACaroline,

I like that area. I bought mine in Bakersfield and had a great experience, despite an error at the factory (forgot the PP).

Despite going with a 2003, I think you'll be very happy. If the changes for the 5 series are anything like the 5, you should be getting a little longer warranty along with a few extras for that increase.

After a few days driving, you'll care less about the difference.

-Paul

lacaroline

I am doing ED for my 2003 thru eurobuyers after my month long quest for a 2002/2003 530i. Sambeam you can go to eurobuyers.com for 2003 pricing both wholesale and MSRP.

If I could've found a 2002 530i in something besides black, white or silver, I would've gone that route, I had it narrowed down to two SoCal dealers for best prices and service. Valencia BMW (and no not because it's in my backyard, I hit up most of the LA dealerships) and Pacific BMW in Glendale.

I still have to order my 530i and I'm looking at a mid-November delivery at earliest. (time is not an issue so I don't mind waiting)

LA Caroline

sharris

Based on the feedback I got from a couple of dealers, the delivery date in Munich can be anywhere from 60 to 90 days from the time you place an order. I don't know about new colors for 2003. Dealers should definitely have 2003 retail and invoice pricing by now. I believe I picked up the price info on the E39 forum at www.bimmer.org.

div2

The 1997 models did have a few teething problems, although most 97s out there probably have had most(if not all) of the problems addressed. In fact, I bought a BMW CPO 1997 528iA and have only had one problem related to the early build date-the trunk actuator, which I fixed myself for less than $50. In your case I'd want to see the service histories of both cars and I would want them thoroughly inspected by a good BMW tech. All things being equal(which they probably aren't), I'd take the 1997 sled due to the lower miles.

530tiag

I just returned from ED about 1.5 weeks ago (530i sport). WOW, what a great experience. Speeds on the autobahn are much slower since the last time I was there (about 15years)and the traffic is thick. The driving highlight of the trip was driving the back roads of the Black Forrest with only a couple of motorcycles to share the road with!

As far as hotel recommendations in Munich, we stayed at the Country Inn by Carlson on Frankfurter Ring. It is 50ft from the U-Bahn station. There are not too many food places within walking distance, but the U-Bahn makes up for that (Marienplatz is only 5-10min away). The main BMW dealership is right across the road. I believe that we paid 80.Euro per night (Munich is expensive). The hotel is American style, but it has a great breakfast every morning included in the price. The desk staff were very helpful and friendly. I recommend it highly.

anuroy

I am interested in buying a 2001 525iA that BMW dealer is selling as a Certified Pre-Owned Vehicle. BMW re-purchased the car from the first owner (was lemon - got fire due to faulty auxiliary fan). The car has approximately 4500 miles on it. The dealer is asking $35,000. A similar used car (that is not a lemon) would cost $40,000. Is buying this car at $35,000 a good deal/bargain or is the dealer asking too much for a vehicle that was declared a lemon?

Please help with your comments.

a10driver

No offense, but I don't think most people use the words buy and lemon in the same sentence. (Except for that last sentence)

You could spend about 37 grand and get a nicely equipped new 525 from ED and avoid potential problems with that lemon. I paid 35 grand (without premium package and have no regrets) for a new 2002 525iA via european delivery

Seems like a no brainer to me, just got to be patient in the european delivery process and have fun in Europe

Good Luck

snagiel

If it was just the aux fan fire, it's not a "lemon." It was a specific incident caused by a result of a known problem (which is why BMW recalled the cars). A "lemon" is a car that you bring back to the dealer five times because the transmission keep dying and they can't fix it. Many states have specific legal definitions of what a lemon is, and if your car meets that definition (see http://www.lemonlaw.bbb.org/), you're legally entitled to get a refund or a new model. So, if they fixed up the fire's wrath, I'd think it otherwise be reliable and fine.

That said, I haven't looked into the market of year-old 525's, so I'm not sure how great a deal this is. You may want to look at some other dealers in the area to get a more thorough idea of year-old CPO models.

sambeam

Sharris: thanks for the reply.

LA CAROLINE:
I saw the wholesale prices at EuroBuyers.
Has ve you or anyone used it?

1) DO they work with ANY local dealer in area?
where would be the car delivered? Who do I pay etc?

2) Do they work with "some commission" OVER Wholesale prices?

3) what is their "commission OVER Wholesale?

Thanks,

sanand5

After a repair of a rear quarter panel, the dealer stated that he had also replaced my right rear wheel and tire (Michelin Pilot Primacy). Since that time, I have noticed significantly more road noise (almost sounds like the Cavalier I got while my 5 series was in the shop). My 3 other tires have about 10,000 miles on them and have never been rotated (as per BMW recommendations).
I think there are several possibilities: 1) Since one tire has less miles on it the road noise is bound to occur. So there is nothing I can do but replace the other three 2) The tire is unidirectional and was placed incorrectly. I don't know if this is a valid possibility. If it is how would I diagnose it? 3) The noise is secondary to something they did during the repair. Unfortunately, I have moved out of state since the repair and the only BMW dealer nearby isn't very helpful.
The ride is unchanged, still very smooth. However it basically sounds like a truck tire.
Any ideas or opinions?

bmw323is

My thought would be to take the car to a reputable Michelin tire store and tell them about the problem. Maybe they would have some advice, but be careful they don't automatically try to talk you into buying 3 other tires. Perhaps the tire warranty will apply. Good luck.

snagiel

Hmm...first, check out TireRack.com and see the reviews for the tire. If people complain it's loud, you have your culprit. If not, then perhaps there's another problem. Unidirectional tires indicate the correct direction on the sidewall, such as "this side out." Perhaps there's some rubbing of the tire against the fender?

lloveday

I just picked up a new 2002 530i (toledo blue,sp,pp,steptronic,xenon,sun shade) on Tuesday. While driving today, I got the error above at around mile 214 on the car. It now appears I only have the use of 3rd gear. Of course, this happened right after the service dept's. closed for Labor Day, so now I can't even make a service appt. until Tuesday. Serious buzzkill for an excited new car owner. My question is: Has anyone else experienced this or heard of anyone who's had to deal with this error on a brand new car? Is this likely a minor issue that will be resolved by having the dealer reset the transmission settings - or should I be seriously concerned?

Any help would be appreciated. Not being able to drive my new car is killing me. And worrying that this might be a serious problem is making it worse. I know the dealer is supposed to take care of it, but I dread the prospect of a bunch of fingerpointing and numerous trips to the dealership to get it resolved.

snagiel

While I haven't heard of such a problem before, it sounds like the tranny computer has gone braindead for some reason. Don't worry about it; unless your dealer is a real weasel, I can't imagine them trying to pin the blame on you for something like this. Whatever the fix, they should give you a loaner during the repair period, and a heartfelt apology for the inconvenience. Anything else, and talk to the manager and BMWNA, and go to another dealer who'll gladly take the warranty work.

crete

Although I've been browsing Edmunds boards for awhile, I just became interested in the 2002 or even the 2003 530i or 540i. I really like the look and style of the cars. I plan to try a test drive soon but before I do, I wanted to ask two questions and hopefully get from feedback from anyone.

-- Is there a decent BMW dealer you can recommend in the San Jose-San Francisco area? The nearest one to me is Allison BMW and Stevens Creek BMW

-- Is the 530i without the sport package that much of a smoother more comfortable ride than with the sport? Or is it hardly noticeable so the sport is well worth extra $$$?

thanks for all the valuable info I've picked up here on the BMWs.

lgross

My test drive experience indicated no appreciable difference in ride quality between the two. I found the Sport suspension more stable on back roads with lots of curves. More fun in that situation. However, in order to appreciate it you really have to push it to the point where it is dangerous to drive especially if someone is coming around the curve unseen. I doubt if you will detect a major difference in normal driving.

On the down side, you are more likely to experience dented and scraped wheels with the lower profile sport tires and the tires are more expensive and don't last as long. For me, the fact that I would have to change tires in the winter clinched it. The sport tires are dangerous when it snows. So, I bought the non-sport.

riez

crete... I concur with Igross regarding ride quality issues. I thoroughly enjoy the rides of my 540i6 (which has Sport Pkg) and my wife's 323iA (which does not). The Sport Package provides improved handling abilities without any real degradation in ride quality. Primary difference attributed to the tires. But the Sport Pkg seats are also a major improvement. Sport Pkg is a real win-win situation. And what is the point of having the ultimate driving machine without the Sport Pkg?

But I disagree with Igross regarding the snow tire issue. First, does it even snow much in the San Jose-San Fran area? I live in the midwest where it snows a lot. Second, all cars should ride on dedicated snow tires in areas where it really does snow. As latest issue of Bimmer magazine (11/02) puts it:

"All-season tires are 98% marketing and 2% science, in our opinion. We haven't seen one yet that can hold its own in real snow. In fact, they should call them 'no-season' tires, because in trying to do everything, they tend to excel at nothing ... But if you need snow tires, you need snow tires."

And think of it this way, using dedicated snow tires during winter not only gives you maximum traction for safest operation, but saves miles and thus life on your expensive summer high-performance tires.

In about 14,000 miles in my 540i6 and 16,000 miles in her 323iA, haven't noticed any difference in dented or scraped wheels. (Her non-Sport brake pads actually seem to kick up a lot more dust, making her wheels look dirty most of the time.)

As regards tire life, how you drive can make a big difference. But also remember how important tires are to driving. Impact braking, handling, acceleration, ride, etc. So is changing them a bit more often a problem? Why drive 40,000 miles or more on old tires just to save a buck or two? Heck, if you can afford the BMW, you can afford new tires every now and then.

Overall analysis: live a little, go for the gusto, grab life by the horns, get the Sport Package!

ewoq

I agree totally with posting 4591 by riez regarding the sport suspension. Ride quality is very good but a very noticeable 'sharpness' to the handling of this car. Ditto for the comments on snow tires.

lacaroline

Hi,
Eurobuyers charges a flat fee to arrange for ED of BMW, based on a network of BMW dealers depending on where you live.

I don't know what the commission is for the dealer, but Eurobuyers handles arrangements working in tandem with the selected dealer.

LA Caroline

thomaspeterdub

Own a very reliable '99 540 with 47,000 miles. Normally, I would be replacing it about now, but have been hesitating. I would like to replace it with another 540, but am not keen on replacing it with the current style as the new 545 will become available in Oct 2003.
My dilema - hesitant to buy a new design its first year, yet concerned about the possible problems that may come about as my car enters its fifth year.
Would appreciate input from other 540 owners about reliability in the 5th and possibly 6th year of ownership and suggestions. I even considered a 330 Ci "bridge" car, but my wife already owns a 325 and I don't want two of a kind and it is hard to give up the 540 attributes for a 330 (which is quite good, but different)

Many thanks.

riez

thomaspeterdub... My '98 540i6 has 66,000 miles. Bought her CPO 11/30/01. I've put on the last 14,000 or so miles. Both front headlights burned out within a week of each other, around 58,000 miles. Replaced idle control valve at around 59,000. Kids broke rear cupholder. Had airbag warning light come on and they replaced wiring harness/sensor.

Thinking the '98s were the first with "free" maintenance. Hoping that means all '98 and newer 5s at least get well maintained the first 3/36.

If you've taken good care of yours and she hasn't had any major problems, unlikely anything too bad will pop up in the next couple years. Is yours an automatic? Roundel and Bimmer magazines both routinely report that AT reliability can be problematic in the 80,000-120,000 mile range.

I would NOT but the first year of the new E60 or E65. The new 745i and future 545i are getting more and more complex. Prudent to wait till at least the second year if you are going to buy and own for some time.

You should check out Consumer Reports reliability ratings for the '97 E39 5 Series, the first year in USA and compare to later years. Reliability has steadily increased. You might consider trading in yours for a CPO '00 or '01 540i as a "stopgap" measure.

howardchu

From the Edmunds consumer rating, 3series has 8.6 and 5series has 9.2. I found a 325 with sport package and a 525 without sport package. Between these two cars, Can anyone give me some advise/insight about which one to pick? The price is 10K vs. 11K. Both look clean and very nice. I would prefer a more reliable one between these two. Any suggestions?

snagiel

They are completely different cars, and the price difference is significant. I suggest you drive both and decide for yourself which one fits you better. The 325 will be lighter, faster, and nimbler. The 525 will feel more upscale, have more luxury features, and generally provide a more balanced sports/luxury ownership than the 325. Personally, if I could only afford a 525 (but not a 530), I'd buy the 330i.

riez

howardchu... Seems like you are talking used cars, and moderately old ones at that. What year and mileage are these two cars? Are you talking about a $10,000 325i vs an $11,000 525i? If so, have an independent mechanic look both over. Likely avoid the first year of a new platform. Have you looked over Consumer Reports' reliability data? Can you talk to both primary owners? See if you can get service histories from local BMW dealers (assuming they were serviced there).

[Saw a nice black on black '02 525i at Markel BMW, Omaha, Nebraska, yesterday while family did the Labor Day outing. MSRP around $42,500 but has Sport Pkg, Prem Pkg, and Cold Weather Pkg. Is a 5-speed manual. Surprised to see such a configuration on his sales lot. Most of what he orders for his own inventory is just PP with automatic.]

snagiel

Whoops; I thought it was a $10k or $11k difference, not total cost. My mistake.

At any rate, at such a deep discount, these cars have probably been around for a while. I doubt either one is a CPO, so buying a comprehensive extended warranty plan should be considered, since maintenance will be develishly expensive relative to the purchase price, even on routine maintenance items. You might want to consider a cheaper, more reliable alternative like a (used) Accord.

pap5

I had this warning light come on last spring when my '01 530i was less than a year old. It was under attempted hard acceleration from a stop - the engine revved but the car moved ahead very slowly at first. I was able to get the computer to reset by following the procedure in the owner's manual. When I got the car to the dealer, they traced the problem to a faulty valve body in the transmission, replaced under warranty. Even if you reset the tranny computer and cannot duplicate the problem, they should get a readout of the episode from the OBD. Unless you were doing something insane like pulling tree stumps, the dealer should give you no grief over this. Please let us know the outcome.