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Lexus LS 400/LS 430



  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    Your favorite brand struck out in reliability scores in the 2003 Consumer Reports buying guide. The C, S and M were all at the lowest rating possible and the SLK was rated below average. The E wasn't rated because its new but I remember the E being average in the past. Lexus scores, save the SC430 which was average (first Lexus I ever saw that low) were all above average or at the highest possible rating (LS430, IS and RX300). The LX470 score wasn't available but mine has been perfect as was my Landcruiser before it. I don't post this to incite, it certainly isn't bs and please no justification issues on this. But seriously, MB had better do something about this - soon!

    BMW (7 series was not rated because it's too new), Audi and VW scores weren't much better than MB. Best score was average for the 5 Series and the Passat. Everything else was below or at the lowest rating possible. BMW seems to have slipped as I remember them getting a few above average scores in the past.
  • Maybe and I say maybe, the Lexus is un-exciting because it doesn`t break down. You sort of just drive along and not worry about it stopping or any other exciting thing. When you wait for the lexus to break things get boaring/ Tony
  • The house number on the NAV is prorated on each block. The GPS location as you "mark your garage" is more acurate than entering the house number.
  • edarteedarte Posts: 41
    I had the steering column groan and my dealer said they disassembled it and replaced the grease. Noise was back next day. Then I did the "limits" adjustment that someone kindly posted to this board a month or so back and the "groan is gone".

    My current problem is a creaking noise from front passenger door. Dealer again said they adjusted but creak can back after a few days. Has anyone else had this problem and was it resolved?

    FYI regarding my dealer: I have used two previous Toyota/Lexus-only dealers for service and the performance was excellent. My current dealer sells everything, including MB, Audi & Jag and, while the service is better than I remember at GM, etc., it does not approach what I got from my previous Lexus-only shops.
  • setting up a Merc1 board (not to single him out, but he does get into many of the posts you try to keep from happening) where everyone can misbehave and get personal? That would keep it off the others and you wouldn't have to keep scolding.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    I think we have one of those, if not several, over on the Comparisons Board. ;->

    And indeed that board is where these brand debates belong.

    But of course even there, the rules of civil and respectful discourse apply.

    Still, there are very many of us who are tired of these disagreements taking over so many discussions. What I need to do is just remove messages from an individual-model discussion when the clear intent is to argue - whether or not the point is for or against the subject vehicle.

    I have really resisted becoming that rigid, but I think it has probably come to that now.

    Questions, comments -- please email me rather than distract this discussion any further.


  • I dont think Mercedes really cares if they get a lower score than most crap cars. Right now every car they make is sold (usually really fast.) I cant understand how in good conscience any of those magizenes can give those low ratings to some of the finest cars in the world! My father has bought 6 Mercedes since 1980 and has had only one problem, which was a minor one. Lexus and all those other "exelent" rated cars are good. But they will never be able to match a S class.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    and get an unreliable car. I'll pluck down the $55-$65k and take the superior car based on how I judge cars. You should also read the S-class board over the past couple of years of posts to see all the problems people who posted there have had, including those that started out raving about the car.

    If MB is not concerned about its reliability scores it will be in pretty sad shape, at least in the US, in 5-10 years, if not sooner.

    I better stop this before my good buddy Merc1 thinks I'm justifying my purchase.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Folks this is not the place for this debate. If you want to continue this conversation, take it to the Comparisons Board.

    Further off-topic messages will be removed. Guaranteed, this time.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    I'll let it go.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    It doesn't rate the cars in the same manner as an auto mag. It processes the surveys submitted by consumers (those who subscribe to the magazine) who own the products - be it cars, electronics, lawn mowers etc. So reliability ratings on anything - be it cars, tv's or vacuum cleaners are based on the survey data people submitted. Thus the reliability ratings are determined by owners and are not a magazine opinion. If the sample is too small for a particular product it does not publish a reliability rating.
  • Has anyone had a window that creaked while closed? If so, was the dealer able to fix it? Thanks.
  • What's the gist of the article?
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Yeah, WSJ requires a paid subscription.

    It would be okay to provide a brief summary of what you read there, but please don't post anything that would get the Town Hall in copyright hot water.

    A couple, two, three sentence summary should be fine.
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    Mostly about MB quality problems. Mentions Consumer Reports, JD Power, and a European survey that "is prepared for car makers themselves and is normally kept secret" where MB's rating "fell below that of Opel" (German subsidiary of GM) "a brand with one of the worst images in Europe." As for JD Power's 2002 new-vehicle quality survey..."Mercedes finished 13th among all brands, tied with Chevrolet".

    Also provided a couple annecdotes. One from a MB dealer in IL complaining about quality problems especially on the E and S. Another from a S owner who "has lost track of how many times he has been to the dealer for repairs"...transmission lurching, electronics system shutdown, etc.

    QUOTED ITEMS ARE FROM THE WALL STREET JOURNAL, NOVEMBER 12, 2002. PatHost please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that SHORT quotes, with proper attribution, does not violate copyright rules.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Yes, I think so too -- thanks for keeping it short. It does get tricky when most or all of entire copyrighted articles are copied and pasted here.

    The bottom line is that the Town Hall (and therefore our community members) needs to respect the proprietary articles posted on proprietary websites such as the Wall Street Journal and such as Town Hall.

    Check out the Membership Agreement on the left sidebar here if you have any questions about this. And/or email me or our Interim Community Manager, Sylvia, at

  • et610et610 Posts: 40
    It should be said that the report referred to in the WSJ report did not include the 2003 E-series or the new BMW as they "were not rated". I think the WSJ article left that part of the "secret" report out.
  • brtmdbrtmd Posts: 54
    I must say that I personally never had what I would consider to be major mechanical problems with Mercedes vehicles. However, with that said, it was the number of nagging quality issues (particularly as the vehicles became a year or two old) that led me to consider Lexus as an alternative.
  • et610et610 Posts: 40
    Why does this thread continue to be about Mercedes? If you look back at the messages posted (you can go a long way back) the constant theme is Mercedes. I looked at the Mercedes thread and do not find them discussing the Lexus.
    There is an occasional post...but even then it is not a serious bash like we see here.
    Why don't we discuss our own cars and let the Mercedes people alone? I still don't understand.
    I am sure that I will now be chastised and attacked for saying this.
    Seems to be a strange mind set on this board.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    I agree -- let's get back to the subject of the discussion.
  • lenscaplenscap Posts: 854
    For those who did not see this, interesting note about the quality of Toyota/Lexus in Germany.

    By Edward Lapham
    Automotive News / November 04, 2002

    Nov. 8 -- Here’s a shocker. J.D. Power and Associates just did its first-ever Customer Satisfaction Index in Germany and Toyota came out on top.
    That's right. In the land where German engineering and precision manufacturing rule, Toyota or Lexus models ranked No. 1 in six of the seven categories. Nissan took the other one.
    German customers are picky.
    In overall customer satisfaction, Toyota had the highest score followed by Mazda, BMW, Honda, Porsche and Daihatsu.
    Among the other German brands, Mercedes-Benz finished in 8th place and Audi was in 12th place. Volkswagen, Smart and GM’s Opel were in the cellar with CSI scores below the industry average.
    What kind of message do you think that sends?
  • brtmdbrtmd Posts: 54
    I was certainly confused as to why a link to the WSJ article was posted on this board. Perhaps it was a mistake. I think it was also posted on the Luxury Marques board which was (maybe) a better spot for it.
    Post 3536 further reminds me of what led me to Lexus.
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    Well, I have been reading this board for a long time, and continue to be miffed by the Lexus-bashing, pro-MB posts by certain people (well, one in particular). Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but I don't appreciate people who try to represent their subjective opinions as objective facts, or try to impose their opinions on others, or call them names because they express opinions that don't happen to agree with their own.

    So I thought that by presenting something from an unbiased source (wsj) maybe those folks would go back to the MB and comparison boards, where they belong. And if it that doesn't work, well, call me childish, but it does feel good to hit back (especially with material from an unbiased source), because one particular poster has put up dozens if not hundreds of very partisan comments, and I've only posted the one. I probably won't post another unless I see another 100 going the other way.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Folks, please ... continuing to talk about this just invites further response.
  • I personally think occasional comparisons to MB by Lexus owners or potential buyers are appropriate here. It was obvious from the first introduction of the LS400 that Toyota was aiming at MB and copying many of its features. I personally hope that Toyota engineers learn all they can from MB and continue to incorporate the best into their product line.

    Like it or not, Lexus lives in the shadow of MB. We as customers may benefit from the extra measure of dealer service, product reliability and pricing that is part of Toyota's Lexus strategy. We give up the cachet of owning one of the German marques.

    You only have to count the many posts on the subject to see it is an important issue to us. Many of us would be driving Honda Accords if emotion did not enter in our choice our cars. Posts on MB cache vs. Lexus reliability simply reflect part of our ownership experience.
  • brtmdbrtmd Posts: 54
    I hear you and definitely understand. Of course, Pat does have the best advice.

    On another note, I am approaching 3700 miles on the odometer--have had it just over two months now. I find myself looking forward to my drive to/from work every day (well, mainly FROM work). I'll have to take it in for the 5,000 mile service before you know it. Not one problem, thank goodness.

    whybuy1: It's good being in the shadow, isn't it.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    The High End Luxury Marques discussion is a great place for this conversation. Also, a separate comparison discussion can be created on the appropriate board.

    The point is that this discussion is supposed to be dedicated to one vehicle. Yes of course comparisons are going to come up from time to time, that's understandable and expected.

    What has been happening here is very different. This discussion has been overtaken by a few people wanting to argue the same arguments that have invaded many discussions previously, this one included.

    There simply is no need to have that scenario repeated here. Extended comparisons belong on the comparisons board in an appropriate topic.

    The folks who have asked that this singly focused discussion get back on topic are well within reason.

    So let's try to talk about Lexus LS's here and meet up over on the Comparisons Board to continue the Mercedes-Benz vs. Lexus debate.


    Pat, Host
  • et610et610 Posts: 40
    I don't have much hope but it would be nice if it lasted for a while.
  • brtmdbrtmd Posts: 54
    I was just on the Lexus website. The accessories for the 2003 LS are now listed (although the list looks to be identical to what was listed a few weeks ago for 2002). Can anyone tell if there have been any improvements in the integrated phone system? Looks about the same from what I can recall.
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