Volvo S60

17028

Time to start some discussion on this new and very
interesting car, don't you think? Here's some
stuff to get us going:

A long series of pictures of the car, probably
intended for the release (August 8th, at 15.00
hours CET):

http://www.kamera.com/xvolvo/images/pp/

When will it be in American showrooms? November
1st.

Here's some measurements and facts:

"The car is shorter than the s70: 4.58 m
Other dimensions: width: 180 cm and height 141 m.
The car will have the same engines as the V70, 2.4
of 140 and 170 hp, 2.4T of 200 hp and the T5 of
250 hp.
Diesel engines will come later: 2.2l of 130 -135
hp and a 2.6l of 169 hp" *

I compared this to some other cars. I found that
the measurements are very close to the new Mercedes
C-class in everything except width, where it is
considerably larger. And as the well-known slogan
of Pontiac Grand Am goes, "Wider is better."
As you might know, the S60 is based on the same
platform as the new V70 and the currently available
S80. They shortened the platform to create a
sportier car.

As you might have noticed before, Volvo of North
America doesn't bring all the European engine
choices here, so you'll probably have to make do
with the higher-end options.
Another note on engines, the European measurement
of hp doesn't correspond exactly to the American
bhp.

August 8th, that's tuesday, so pretty soon we'll
be able to see some video footage hopefully.

-17028

* I took this quote from the Volvospy bulletin
board because I don't feel like going back to the
source (a Swedish newspaper) and translating it
right now. I'll do it if anyone is interested in
getting some more info though (most of it is
covered here).

merc1

Another very likeable Volvo. I'll add this one to the list too. Wasup with that shifter? Where in the world is Rollie?


M

ruski

please explain European vs American measurement of HP.

I know for sure that on the S80 they measured torque accurately, and it is the same as on the American, GM 3.8L Supercharged engines, 280 lbs*ft. This is because S80 uses the same GM 4-speed auto tranny as Grand Prix GTP, Regal GS, Bonneville SSEi. The tranny is rated for up to 280 lbs*ft.

ruski

Kind of a big front overhang, isn't it?

I really like the car though. I hope it will not be too expensive.

lancerfixer

That is one funky-looking shifter. I like it. I only hope that the manual tranny is offered in the states. Does anyone know if that is the case? Volvo hasn't given us one in the 40 series (where you'd think there would be one) but has given us one in the new V70 (where you'd think there wouldn't be one.) Those crazy Swedes; always keeping us guessing...:-)

lancerfixer

Several months ago (it might even be a year now) in Car and Driver magazine, chief editor Csaba Csere wrote an excellent piece on the differences between American hp and European hp. I can't remember a word of the actual explanation, but I do remember that it was well written, as are most of C&D's columns. You might want to check their website to see if they still have that article.

ruski

I know there is a difference between how they used to measure HP years ago and how they do it now:
years ago - just the engine, no accessories. That's why American muscle cars had big HP numbers.
now - with accessories attached to the engine.

I think nowadays all cars (American and foreign) have their HP measured in the same way. Otherwise how could anyone trust those measurements?

lancerfixer

There are differences in measurements beyond gross vs. net hp. I know the final numbers are very similar using either method; as I recall, one method uses ASE standards and one uses DIN. I wish I could find that article...it spelled out everything better than I ever could.

amazon

Volvo officially showed the S60 in Sweden today. Sweeeeeeeeeeet.

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/0008/08/volvo.html

lancerfixer

The back end of the S60 looks an awful lot like an Accord's, particularly the indentation in the rear fender running from the C-pillar to the taillights. Is it just me?

lancerfixer

...The previous ('94-'97) Accord.

17028

Frankly, I've never bothered to remember the difference, because they are close enough for my purposes. I just wanted to make it clear so no one wonders why the engines will seem to be different here in the US when it is released.

-17028

17028

Some pictures reminded me of the older Accord as well, but it wasn't the back end primarily. Look at the top left pic on the page I posted a link to previously.

-17028

ruski

just like S80.

rollie

Regarding post #1:

merc1, I'm here (sort of). I'm in the midst of the move from Boston to California and am buried in boxes. Just got the cable modem up and running. I'll be a ghost for a few more days as I help get the house setup and then head out of town to run a new project for work.


I have been watching the S60 closely and it looks pretty sweet indeed. I just added a 2001 V70 T5 to the garage alongside the S80 T6 so now I'm going to have to figure out how to justify an S60!

Thanks.

-rdo

rollie

Okay everybody. One more time. Volvo did not copy Honda. It was the other way around. The previous generation Accord borrowed some design cues from the Volvo ECC concept car which debuted nearly a decade ago. The S80 design was a direct descendant of that car and as the progenitor of the current Volvo family it sets the tone for design elements in subsequent models including the S60. It is unfortunate that Honda mass produced a car with this rear-end design well ahead of Volvo but the design came from Volvo and not Honda.

Thanks.

-rdo

lancerfixer

What the heck you doing moving to Cali from Boston? Everyone knows Boston is the coolest city in the universe. :-)

prost

Do you think the new S60 will have Xenon as an option? The 2001 S40 has it(at lease in Europe)

17028

You ready for some prices, folks?

This is the price range in Sweden, translated into US dollars: from 25,500 USD to 32,500 USD depending on model chosen (without options, I asume).

Remember that one, or both, of the low-end engines might not come to our shores, so the base price might end up a couple thousand higher than 25.5K.

I keep hearing a future 4WD option being brought up in different places, it seems to be all but decided.

-17028

PS. Good luck in California, Rollie! I just recently moved to Florida, but I prefer Cal. for the climate.

musafir

Go to volvospy.com, number of photographs with prices for different models and a abbreviated list of standard equipment is there in the news section.

s1gins

Excellent link! Those picture make the car look wonderful. It should really be able to compete in the class if the price fully equipped can stay under$37K. If AWD is added to the mix, which it should, this car would be hard to beat. Now if the y would only make that an inline six with turbo!!!!

aling

Whoa! What a weird tranny shifter...does anyone want to guess how it works (I know its a 5 speed auto with Geartronic)? There doesn't seem to be many markings; perhaps they're located in the instrument cluster?

lancerfixer

Look more closely at the shifter. It's a manual. Notice the gears marked out on the outer edge of the chrome trim.

lweiss

I assume the Canada article is quoted in Canadian currency, which would equate to about what the S-70 prices are currently (base model- no turbo). It is somewhat smaller on the outside than the current S-70, more the size of the BMW 3 series- is this the target market of the Volvo S-60? They would then position the S-80 against the BMW 5 series, and the S-40 as the low price leader to battle the Japanese makes?

17028

I think the gearshift is an unusual manual, but I haven't seen the Geartronic so I can't say for sure.

The prices are a big question mark right now, the European prices quoted by Volvo seems very low (are they factory invoice, or even production cost?). I think the idea that they will end up around the same prices as the V70 range has is plausible.

And just as V70 is being equipped with AWD to create the XC, so will probably S60 be.

-17028

ruski

And I don't even know how to drive a manual well, but all the markings and how they are positioned definitely makes it a manual. Instead of writing 12345R on the top of the stick, they wrote it on the bezel.

equalizer1

I always really liked the S80, and was contemplating purchasing the S40 before I bought my A4, but this looks like it will be a heavy contender for my next car.

Does anyone know if it will come with a Navigation system like the S80, not the Onstar type that they have mentioned?

17028

I haven't heard that much about specific options, only some of the new "innovations" (I use the word in the same way Microsoft does). It would surprise me if there wasn't a navigation system offered.

There should be brochures arriving at dealers in not too long. Then we will know more.

-17028

ggeckoiii

See:
http://volvos60.volvocars.se/vcc/
click the center panel of the little graphic for all the info.
Good flash, informative movies.
BTW, the rear-end looks like a S80 to me .

benben121

Does anyone have an idea when the S60 will be an option for European Delivery?

I was really looking forward to the S40, but was definitely upset by the lack of a manual tranny. The S60, although more like a Bimmer than the VW alternative I was considering to the S40, seems like a pricier yet viable option. I'd love to get a few thousand off the base price since I should be in Europe in a couple of months anyway.

amazon

Euro delivery should become an option. I don't know when, though.

17028

This is just a guess. I think you can't order the cars until they are officially released on the market, which means around 15/11. It might be hard to be able to get them to manufacture your car and have it ready soon enough for your purposes (within a couple months of today).

However, they seem to extend the offer of a free round-trip ticket and a night at a hotel each time it expires, so why not go twice? It is an amazing value if you combine it with some touring of Europe. I wrote a post, with some tips for nice places to visit around Gothenburg, in some other topic, probably a S40/V40 related one, you might be able to search for it. You probably want to go between May and September tho, if you want to avoid quite cold weather. However, it can be quite beautiful with all the snow in the middle of winter, as long as you don't have to stay there too long (gives you a chance to try Volvo's anti-skid system too).

-17028

17028

I've got some information to quote from the message board at the eminent Volvospy site, that I know you guys will find interesting:

"Our local paper (the San Antonio Express-News) had a lead article on the S60. Said base price would be $27,075 with projected US sales of 35,000 units for 2001. There will be 3 engine choices: aspirated 168-hp, 2.4 five cylinder; light-pressure turbo at 197-hp; top-of-line 2.3 liter high-pressure turbo at 247 hp "

<</A>> encloses text added by me.

I want the 197hp turbo, I love Volvo's turbo engines from my days driving my parents' 740 back in Sweden.

-17028

"Protect the body, ignite the soul" -- Volvo
"Ignite the body, protect the soul." -- The Spanish InquisitionSedans

17028

The cars are planned to be released from port on October 23rd, to be on sale November 1st. Maybe earlier if they arrive in port early.

The dealers will start taking orders in early September. That probably means that brochures will be available.

Base price will be around $27K. There may or may not be a reduced introductory price.

Another piece of news that I know will interest some: there is a convertible planned, but it will take a few years.

-17028

sdolven

Here is a link (I think the same one listed above):
http://volvos60.volvocars.se/vcc/market/intro.asp

Anyway, the S60 will NOT have AWD this year, but it was designed to be able to have it added later (probably 2 yrs. or so). That is what I have picked up from the Audi/VW groups, as Quattro/4Motion/AWD is becoming THE safety item to have on higher end cars these days. Even MB is using it now.

Obviously, besides Subaru, the Europeans are twenty steps ahead of the Big 3 in Detroit and most of Japan. From what I have read, just about all the Euro cars will be offering this option in the coming years. Just note that about 80% of all Audi's in the US are sold w/Quattro. Reason? Because they HAVE IT! Audi's (and VW's, since VW owns Audi) system is different than Subaru's and is not really 4wd.

I have not found any specific info on how Volvo's system will work, but suffice it to say, it will be a lot closer to Audi/MB than Subaru (which is a very good thing).

If anyone does have info on this, please e-mail me.

aling

MB offered the 4-matic AWD system back in 1989, so AWD cars are not new to them. In fact, the 3rd generation 4-matic system will be offered as ano option on the 2002 S-class, C-class, CLK-class, and E-class. FWIW, last year, 50% of the E-classes sold in Canada had the 4-matic system.

It is true that many European cars are available with AWD. Even the tiny Fiat Panda, or the Peugeot 206 (which has done extremely well in the World Rally Championship) are available with AWD. As for the Japanese manufacturers, many actually offer AWD in their home (Asian) markets. For example, the Toyota Camry has available AWD in Japan, as does the Mazda MPV minivan. They have not be offered here possibly because they may eat into the SUV sales, or perhaps because the manufacturers don't feel that there's enough demand.

ruski

I don't think it is true that the domestics are behind on AWD. And it does not take an expensive car to have AWD - some minivans have it. Also Chrysler is developing a platform for 2003 LH cars that will be FWD, or RWD, or AWD. I think GM is doing something like that too.

sdolven

To an extent, you are right. As I noted in my earlier post, the European cars don't really use AWD.....it's better. AWD means all 4 wheels are pushing all the time. AWD is what the Big 3 use. The European cars send the power where it is needed, but most power (at least for Audi/VW) is sent to front wheels (when accelerating, more shifts to the back, and from right to left, where needed). I belive it breaks down to a 60%/40% for front/rear most of the time.

Chrylser is now trying to implement these into their cars (since DB took them over). And as Aling points out, more of the Euro's have it (and Japanese, but not in the US) than anyone else. Thus, it comes down to how you intepret "high end cars". Since most European cars are considered high end in the US, a valid case of Quattro/4Motion/whatever working its way down to everyday cars would be true.

All I am saying is: look who has these systems vs. the AWD (which is a mechanical function: not efficient and definitely not the better of the systems). Stability control and traction control (as GM and Ford call them) are NOT the same thing. Don't confuse them. They are TOTALLY different systems!

Look into how the different systems work and you will see that: 1. They are not the same; and 2. The Europeans have been using them for over 20 years.

Check it out and you'll probably surprise yourself with how much better their systems work!

aling

Actually, the Audi Torsen Quattro system on the A4, A6, and A8 is permanent and has a 50/50 split. The Haldex Quattro system on the A3 and TT is mostly FWD till slippage occurs though. Personally, I like the former system better since AWD can help to stabilise the vehicle and help with handling at all times. MBz's 4-matic system is also permanent with a 38/62 split. Volvo's system, OTOH, is 90% front, and 10% rear until slippage occurs.

WRT the domestic manufacturers, the AWD system in the Chrysler minivans is actually made by a well known Austrian company. It too is 90% front/10% rear until slippage occurs. GM's new VersaTrak system has a similar torque split ratio.

atomi

Does anyone have any experience with or recommendation of the following dealers around Philadelphia, PA?

1. Volvo of Fort Washington
Fort Washington, PA

2. Burdumy Motors, Inc.
Huntington Valley, PA

3. Cherry Hill Volvo
Cherry Hill, NJ

stickguy

I have looked at cars at Cherry Hill. Have found them to be very friendly and helpful, and not at all pushy. They will also give you the keys to anything for a solo test ride any time you want.

If you are in South Jersey, they are also the only game in town.

drewsrx

Hello all,

This is the first US review of the 2001 Volvo S60 that I have found. They were very positive about the car and seem to like it a lot!
Here it is:

Car Connection 2001 Volvo S60 Review

-DrewSRX

d_macko

Drew,

Thanks for the link to car connection, but I can't open the review. Maybe you could cut/paste in some of the pertinent details like 0-60 times!

drewsrx

Somtimes The Car Connection reviews do not work and I am not sure why. I guess that it depends on the time of day as to whether it works or not. They did not publish any 0-60 times, but I am guessing that it will be in the 6.8 second range for the S60 T5. The base price will be $26,500. Here are some of the important things that they said:

"Volvo clearly targeted BMW, which remains the benchmark for "driving machines," and while the smooth Stockholm terrain didn&#146;t provide many opportunities to push the S60 to its limits, we had enough wheel time to be impressed with the car&#146;s handling and performance. The S60 is solid and stable, handling with aplomb a tight slalom course Volvo set up as a route detour. Steering is precise, with just the right amount of boost."

"Those looking for the maximum thrill would be strongly advised to consider the T5, with its high-pressure turbo and stiffer suspension, then add the optional, 18-inch, low-profile tire and wheel package. The U.S. version of the T5 will offer an optional "Space Ball" five-speed stick, a futuristic looking aluminum-and-leather shifter. We found the manual transmission smooth and easy to manage, and a definite performance enhancer."

"The look and feel of the interior underscores Volvo&#146;s drive to reposition itself as a luxury brand. The materials are sumptuous, with well-matched colors and textures. Gauges are easy to read, especially the optional navigation system. Competitors typical mount their nav monitors in the center console, forcing you to take your eyes off the road to check directions. When in use, the Volvo screen pops up from the top of the center stack, minimizing eye movement. Directions also can be read out in a friendly, digital voice."

"Overall, the Volvo S60 is an impressive vehicle. It&#146;s roomy, comfortable and surprisingly nimble. Its sleek shape may shock Volvo purists, but there&#146;s little sacrificed, and plenty gained. And considering Volvo has cut the base price off the old S70 by $1000, it&#146;s certainly worth putting the new S60 on your shopping list."

-DrewSRX

jerryd3

Has anyone been able to determine whether the
manual transmission will be available in the
U.S.?

stickguy

You will be able to get a stick, certainly in the T-5, and I think in the base car also. I personally would want a 5-speed with the LPT engine, but that combo has never been available here.

equalizer1

I called Volvo of NA, and they said the car would come standard with a manual transmission in the US.

rollie

Hi gang. I was in at Volvo Irvine earlier today to pickup a slew of goodies for my wife's '01 V70 (all free thanks to Volvo) and spotted a S60 sitting in the service area. I had looked at the tires for a bit thinking they looked slightly different than those on my S80. It wasn't until I stepped outside that I realized I wasn't looking at a S80. My black S80 was parked next to this black S60 so I think my mind played a trick on me at first.

The S60 is a very attractive car. It looks a lot like a scaled down S80 except that the side profile is more coupe-like with the long tapered rear doors. It looks really good from the back surprisingly (it has a bit of Audi and BMW in the lines for the roof pillars when seen from behind). This particular car was a T5 driven by a Swedish engineer assigned to the Rockleigh office. Oddly it had plates from Georgia denoting that it came from a 'Distributor'. Nonetheless, the interior is very well done. This one didn't have the spaceball gear shifter but I can tell you that Volvo added an additional color to the light colored interior. This particular interior had the normal tan leather seats but there was also so brown and tan in the plastics that hasn't been in Volvos before. They are definitely paying attention to Audi when it comes to color combinations (I haven't seen enough S60s to tell if they've arrived yet but it is a definite step in the right direction).

I didn't get a chance to drive the S60 but the engineer I spoke to did mention that it had a tighter suspension setup that he preferred (it could have been me but I thought he was saying this in reference to my S80). Overall the car was very nice on the inside and outside. It seems to have great interior room but the trunk is definitely smaller than the S70 trunk if my memory serves me right. It is larger than most cars in this class, marginally, but it is not the large square trunk of yore.

Based on my viewing of the latest Volvo toy today, I can say I definitely look forward to the 300 HP AWD version coming out next year!

Thanks.

-rdo
rdollie@home.com

p.s. - I felt like such a moron. I was completely caught off guard by running into an actual Volvo engineer. All the things I could have asked him about an upcoming SUV, whether the S60 AWD uses Audi's Quattro system (since it was reported that Volvo licensed it recently), etc. etc. None of these things came to mind! Arrgh...

p.p.s - As an aside, I asked the engineer if Volvo had many M.I.T. graduates working in the engineering staff (I'm a grad and have an alumni plate on my car which he spotted - I thought). I don't know if it was my accent or not but he hadn't heard of MIT. Ouch said my poor little ego...

drewsrx

Hello all,

The cover story for the front page of the Detroit Auto newspaper had a preview of the new Volvo S60 in it today, September 27, 2000. For all of those who are interested, here is the site!

Detroit News Preview on 2001 Volvo S60

-Drew SRX

ruski

what engineer never heard of MIT? I sure did, back when I was at Moscow State Technical University.

equalizer1

I have to say the S60 looks like a beautiful car, as I have admired the S80 for the past two years, but I am a little disappointed in the fact that the base model will come with only 168 HP. That is 2 less HP than an Audi A4 1.8T, which fully loaded with Navigation would be at least $4,000-$5,000 less than a fully loaded base S60, and it will have AWD, more HP and Xenons. Why should someone go for the S60 over the A4, besides the fact that it is a bigger car?

Also, the A4 now comes with 4 yrs/50,000 mile warranty with free maintenance and standard sideguard headbags, so I would say these two cars are comparable in their safety feature.