Volvo S60

nytex

Hi can anyone answer a few questions for me. I test drove a 2.4t and loved it. Now trying to buy one. read most of the recent postings. have a few questions 1) where can I get more info on the aol certificate? 2) I've compared invoice on edmunds to my local dealer and the difference is about $4K, how close should i expect to be to edmunds for true pricing?. Thanks

nytex

Hi can anyone answer a few questions for me. I test drove a 2.4t and loved it. Now trying to buy one. read most of the recent postings. have a few questions 1) where can I get more info on the aol certificate? 2) I've compared invoice on edmunds to my local dealer and the difference is about $4K, how close should i expect to be to edmunds for true pricing?. Thanks

debchiil

I am dealing with Gary Klein at Howard Orloff Jag/Volvo in Chicago, IL. He is the internet guy at the dealership. They have a web site and he has an e-mail address. I went to the dealer last night and will be ordering the T5 either through him or more likely, overseas. The dealership had about 17 S60's in stock!!, but no T5's. If you are interested in the car (base and 2.4T) I suggest you contact Gary. This dealership ships cars all over the us from new england to california and the cost of shipping a car is usually less than $500.00 plus they will sell the car under list. I hope I prevent anybody else from paying list or over list. Maybe I am spolied coming from Chicago, but you should never pay list or over list for a car unless it is a 6 figure car coming from italy (and at that point who cares about the cost). Enjoy!

17028

I think the AOL promotion is over, but I may be wrong. You can still cash in your printed certificates, but not make any new ones. Anyone else who knows for sure care to chime in? I'm not in a position to buy right now, so I didn't bother with it.

The official site, revolvolution.com, might have more info, and you can always check with Steve, the dealer who posts regularly at volvospy.com's S60 forum.

-17028

17028

I just read that the AOL promotion is still on, so it might be worth a look. Go to revolvolution.com using AOL, and you will see the banners, according to others. Click on the banners and go through the process of "building" your car, after that you get to choose the AOL free options, and they will e-mail you the certificate so that you can print it and show it to your dealer when it is time to buy. Don't worry if the car you "build" on the site isn't exactly how you want it, it doesn't matter.

If you are thinking about buying the car, I would probably go there and make sure I get the certificate printed just in case. $2100 in free options is a good deal, and as opposed to some deals that are advertised on TV right now (*cough* GM *cough*), the dealer isn't in a position to say "hey you got free options, so now I can't discount the car".

-17028

[Deleted User]

Yes, the AOL program is still on. I got my Certificate a few days ago for a T-5 I had ordered a few weeks ago. The dealership better honor the certificate or I'll cancel the original order.

My Certificate expires on March 15, 2001.

You must use AOL to go on-line and type REVOLVOLUTION.

As of a couple of days ago this still worked!!

ianrosdale

Hello all,

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-Ian Rosdale

kelf

on a potential new S60 the salesman tells me that i have to buy an immobolizer, about $200. what is that? any value? have you ever heard of this?

kelf

have you heard:
1 -- does it include US duty, or the owner has to pay this separately?
2---- have you heard of any dealer offering a better price than the stated ED factory price? i heard of dealers who gave one more roundtrip airline tix.
3-- any names of dealers or source where you could recommend?
kelfg@aol.com

dmarcarian

I have tested the s60 several times now, and one thing I find surprising is the lack of lumbar support. Everything about the S60 is wonderful design wise, but the seats, which are otherwise ergonomically near perfect utilize a design which does not provide a "solid" lumbar support. I spoke with a rep. directly from Volvo today, and he was aware of the problem, and said they were looking into a solution for it. Also, I was quite surprised at how "ballistic" it went while driving over rough roads. There did not seem to be enough shock travel to provide for a more compliant ride. Of course, I was in a car with 17" wheels, and that may have been the culprit. Everything else about the car I love. Does anyone know of a solution for poor lumbar support? You don't want to mess around too much with such a nice seat.
-dm

17028

I seem to remember one reviewer mentioning that the lumbar control is a knob on the right hand side of the seat that is hard to operate. Did you try that one?

-17028

17028

I have never heard of anyone being required to buy an immobilizer. The dealers can require anything they like, I would think, but you are of course not required to buy from that particular dealer, hehe.

As for duties on TDS, as far as I know basically everything except insurance for your driving around in Europe is included in the price.

As for dealers giving better deals on TDS pricing, that's up to them. They get a 5% fee on all TDS sales, so they can use part of that money to sweeten the deal if they want to. I've never heard of anyone doing that though.

If your local dealer doesn't show any interest in selling you TDS, you can always turn to Volvo themselves. I think the contact information is on the web site.

-17028

jmwesq

I've narrowed my choices down to the S60 T5 and the MBZ C320 Sport. Both appear to be excellent choices, however, the price of the S60 (especially TDS pricing) is very attractive.

My question is this, has anyone who currently owns a S60 had any reliability/build quality issues? I've read numerous posting regarding the S80's (1999-2000) problems and have concerns for the S60, since it's built on the same platform.

Also, having never owned a Volvo, how does resale value compare to MBZ and BMW. Lastly, any dealership recommendations in the Orange County, California area? Thanks

rollie

Regarding post #168:

jmwesq, the S60 is too new to tell at this point. However, the platform on which it is built seems stable at this point. The S80 now earns 'average' ratings according to CR for quality and the new '01 V70 based on this platform seems to be relatively trouble free so far (I've got both for comparison purposes). I suspect the S60 will be no worse than the rest of its competition for quality. If you check Volvospy.com you will find some early European buyers of the S60 who seem quite content so far.

Regarding resale, it is good as long as you keep the car for the better part of 3 years or so before you part with it. The resale value if you sell it yourself in certain regions (New England for sure - I don't know about SoCal yet) is VERY high. With the exception of some situations in places like New England the resale value won't be quite as high as BMW or Mercedes though (generally ahead of Audi and Lexus but a couple of percentage points behind BMW and Mercedes for average 3 year values).

Living in Orange County I can recommend Volvo Irvine from a sales perspective as well as Volvo of Orange County. I've only used the service department of Volvo Irvine to date and at this point I would call them competent (if I have some additional problems crop up I'll be able to see how good they really are.) If you need a salesman recommendation for Volvo Irvine let me know.

Good luck.

-rdo
rdollie@home.com

debchiil

Overseas delivery price includes us duty and shipment to dealer of your choice. Volvo also includes one roundtrip ticket to volvo factory in sweden. If you need more information go to volvo's overseas delivery web site.

doctorfive

I just purchased a new S60 from a local Volvo dealer yesterday. Just 1 hour prior to leaving for the dealer, I happened to read the posts on this board and discovered the AOL S60 $2100 certificate. I quickly went to "revolvolution" on aol and "built my virtual Volvo" and received my certificate by e-mail several minutes later.

After agreeing to a price of 2.5% over invoice (which from what I am reading is a fair price) I presented the certificate to the sales manager who promptly said he would be happy to honor it.

Imagine, reading the latest posts just before leaving for the dealer saved me $2100 in options!

Thanks to all the contributors on this board! This offer was definitely NOT too good to be true!

clarkm49

Does anyone know if you can apply the $2100 in free options from AOL to the OSD program, or is the prices you see on the OSD web site fixed?

benben121

This topic has been discussed in depth on volvospy.com. It turns out that S60s bought through TDS (tourist-diplomat sales, I think...) are exempt from the AOL offer. Some people are saying that at the time they printed their certificate, Volvo hadn't mentioned that the offer couldn't be used with TDS, and I believe that just recently the certificates have been changed to include this fact.

We'll see what happens, and just in case, I'll be holding on to my certificate from a month ago as I wait for my TDS car to be delivered.

dmarcarian

Yes, I did have the lumbar support set to the highest level available. The rep. from Volvo knew what I was talking about before I even finshed explaining about it.
dm

jmwesq

Thanks for your insightful response.

I stopped by Irvine Volvo last weekend--their sales staff was very helpful, without any pressure. My wife and I test drove the S60 T5, after having test driven the C320 at a nearby MBZ dealer. Wow, the T5's acceleration was much more responsive. The interior of the T5 also appeared to be of a higher quality than the Benz.

Though both cars are very good looking, I've got to give MBZ the nod in this dept. The price difference b/n the two obviously goes to the T5, even when factoring in the free maintenance offered by MBZ.

Alas, a tough choice!

dustytrails

looking at 2,4T with a auto transmission without
geartronic. have you heard/seen problems with that
combo. I thought S60 seat better on my bum that
BMW, but haven't done a sit off with C320...yet
thanks 4 input

cu503

Nice car so far, Aol deal CD changer nice, roof rack nice, tire chains nice but useful??, rear speaker upgrade assume better than origional? trunk mat is a rug style, not the nice rubber one it is ok. back seat tray WHAT A PIECE OF SH@T! Why not a ski rack or rest of bike rack or nice rubber floor matts? Who is the joker who could ever call this $2,100 woth of stuff?

jamie5

I love both, but an VERY disappointed in both new Volvos for one reason: they took away about 3 inches of foot room height making it unsafe for me to drive. Trying to move my foot from the accelerator to the brake, the underside of the dashboard stops my shoe. I have to retract my leg then over and extend again to use the brake. I even tried close and far seating positions. I own both a 98 V70 XC and a 99 S70 GLT and in both of these I have two or three inches of space above my toe with my foot on either pedal. I looked underneath in the S60 and new V70 and there is just empty space above that piece of lowered plastic. It must be the Marketing guys insisting on smooth curvy lines everywhere -even under the dash! I must admit that I am 6'3" and wear a size 13 1/2 shoe, but that's why us Swedes choose Volvos and not Hondas.

hoopman67

It's time for a new car and I've been considering the SAAB 9-5 Areo for some time. But today I stoped by the Volvo dealership and wandered around the lot (they are closed on Sunday) and was blown away by the look of the S60 T5. All I can say is damn. I am looking forward to taking this kid for a drive. I never thought I'd be a Volvo driver but if sitting in the S60 is anything like the S80 (and from what I've read it should be) and it has the real juice coming from that 247 HP engine -- forget the SAAB. I was looking at the SAAB because I can't stand all the bimmers on the road . . . but for the $ this looks like it might be the car for me. I am very excited to take it for a spin. And if I like could be a new Volvo owner by the end of the year (who'd have thunk it!).

To be continued . . .

jdjimenez

Just purchased S60 2.4T. This is one nice car, great finish, lots of power, and very solid. If you live in the Southern California area, you'd be wise to visit South Bay Volvo, very polite, no pressure salesmen. Will comment on service area after first service.

banker74

Just thought I'd let those of you in so-cal know that the Volvo S60 Performance Car Concept is supposed to be at the LA Auto Show this January. I e-mailed Volvo and they replied and confirmed it. I can't wait to see it in person!

http://www.edmunds.com/edweb/editorial/concept/pcc/index.html

nc20

I test drove the 2.4T and T5 yesterday. I had no intention of test driving a T5, as I had read in numerous places that the 2.4T had plenty of acceleration and power. However, when I drove the 2.4T I found it to be a little slow getting started from a dead stop, which would get annoying in the heavy traffic I frequently drive in. I loved driving the T5, it had plenty of power and a sportier suspension. But there was this annoying high pitched whine that seemed to be coming from the engine when I accelerated. The sales rep said it was from the turbo. He said a lot of people opt for the 2.4T instead of the T5 because of that annoying noise. Has anyone else who's driven a T5 experienced this ?

mrswede

I went to pick up my new S60 T5 this weekend (ordered in early Nov.) and it came in with cloth upholstery instead of the leather I "ordered"! The dealer claims that they placed the order correctly and VOLVO screwed up!!!! They also claim that Volvo has screwed up some of their other cars' upholstery...

What's up with that!? This is my first Volvo, but this sounds ridiculous! Does Volvo really make mistakes like this or is my dealer trying to make excuses for me having to settle (and pay more for) a car with an extra option that I don't really want?...

Does anyone out there know the name and number of the Volvo NA rep for New Hampshire?...Or could someone please forward this to Volvo for a response?

Has anyone else been jerked around like this by the Lovering/Concord dealership in N.H.? I feel like I'm dealing with a sleezy used car dealer vs. what I thought was supposed to be a luxury brand w/excellent customer service-oriented dealerships!...Was I dreaming?...

khillock

My T5 does not make any funny noises......I think that nc20's dealer (#178) was making excuses for one particular car.
I placed my order through Annapolis Volvo in Maryland.....They got it right with excellent service.

I assume mrswede (#179) you looked at your order form closely.....I guess the dealer may have types the wrong option number into the Volvo system......If it was me......I'd ask to look at the original order placed in Volvo system. I just wouldn't accept it......or at least get an extra $1,000 off the price beyond the $1,300 cost of the leather.

I order my car on Nov. 7 and picked it up Dec. 23. Not that bad of a turn around on a special order.

pmvi

I agree, you shouldn't accept other than what you ordered. Not that I dislike cloth seats--some are really nice, and they're more practical--but I have to admit the ones on the S60 look really cheesy to me.
I ordered a S60 T5, that I pick up in late March. I sure hope they don't pull this on me. I guess this is a lesson to all of us to confirm that the order was processed correctly every step of the way.

Good Luck!

jdjimenez

We also felt that the turbo whine on the T5 was a little too loud, that is why we choose the T4. The T4 has lots of power, but if you can put up with the whine on the T5 it really kicks [non-permissible content removed].

nord1

I am considering purchasing an S60. In a test drive of a 2001 model, the brakes felt very "grabby" (a nonlinear response where they would all of a sudden start to grab, making it very difficult to make a smooth stop). I noticed Car & Driver's latest test mentioned "touchy brakes", so it is evidently not just the sample I tested. The unit I drove had only 88 km on it, and the salesman suggested (surprise!) it would get better with time. Has anyone else had experience with this, and most importantly, will it get better with more miles on the car?

mrswede

I finally have my S60 T5! After much haggling and frustration, the dealer came through in the end and found me a replacement car w/leather and the DSTC option thrown in as a bonus. The dealer and Volvo are still pointing fingers at each other, but since the dealer was the party that "absorbed" the cost of the extra option, I gotta believe that it was their mistake, afterall...However, they are still claiming that they received S60's in recently with upholstery order mistakes. They even claim that one car has both cloth AND leather seats!!!...

I guess the moral of the story is - don't trust your dealer to get the order correct! Get a printout of your actual order from the CIS and confirm it yourself. If your car comes in with option mistakes, hold your ground and demand a replacement car for the same price. You just may get lucky and end up with a bonus option or two!...

This whole experience has me wondering if I really bought a "luxury" automobile, though...The way I was treated left me feeling like I was haggling over buying a Yugo!! Volvo has a long way to go with training their dealers on modern customer service principles!

In any case, I LOVE THIS CAR!!! It was worth every minute of hassle I went through to get it. Friends, relatives & onlookers "Ooh & Aah" everywhere I go. Its a blast to drive and the AudioMax stereo is superb (I've been cranking AC/DC's Back in Black and The Cure's Mixed Up CD's and they sound fantastic). Be careful driving though, I keep noticing that I seem to be going faster than the rest of the traffic, only to look down at the speedo to find that I'm doing 30-40 MPH over the speed limit without even noticing it!

Enjoy your own S60's!

mdhannon

does anyone know about the $1200 aol deal on options for new volvo's?

jde_in_nc

I've been looking closely at the T5 and the car really stands out in styling and performance. This is the first Volvo that has attracted my attention. I wonder though if there are any reliability issues with the high-pressure turbo over the long-term.
Also, I had a couple of questions that my local dealer was unable to answer. First, there is an option listed for the T5 sports suspension with larger stabilizer bars and stiffer springs. Has anyone driven a new T5 with this option? I'm curious to know the effect on the handling characteristics and also the pricing of this option.
Also the dealer was unable to tell me the weight distribution of the S60 front-to-rear. I was curious since Volvo seems to be targeting this car as a sports sedan comparable to the BMW 3-series.
In reference to the previous posting on the AOL package, if you log onto the Volvo web site, you will be directed to the S60 site and the info on the AOL package is there. You can pick your options and then Volvo sends an e-mail to you that you take to your local dealer. Your local dealer is also notified and contacts your e-mail.

pmvi

I ordered a S60 T5, and am also a bit concerned about the reliability. Based on my research though, there isn't really an issue of reliability with the turbo (it's mostly electrical problems). The engine is actually supposed to be very reliable. That said though, you should try to use synthetic oil due to the high temperatures generated by the turbo. It's also a good idea to let it cool down for a minute after driving (especially if you've driven it hard!).

The figures for weight distribution I've seen are 58/42 (front/rear). This is pretty good for a FWD car, and the car's width also contributes to stable handling. I actually didn't order the sports suspension because the ride is already pretty firm--especially with 17" wheels.

You need to test drive the car yourself to see if it suits you. The steering and handling aren't on par with BMW 3 series, but this is definitely a fine ride.

neeker

Like everyone else on the board, the S60 is a very interesting option. I had been considering an Audi A4 Quattro, but I like the pricing on the Volvo. My question is, how does it handle in snow? The Midwest has been killed by snow this year and I'd like to hear from anyone concerning their experiences on the frozen tundra in our nation's heartland. Thanks!

lancerfixer

If you're not happy with your current dealer, for service I'd recommend checking out Volvo of Keene, if you don't mind a bit of a drive. My parents got great service a few years back from the Toyota side of their operation, and although I now live in the midwest, I'm thinking of buying my next car (a used Volvo) from there and having it shipped.

17028

I just read a message from someone from Chicago on Volvospy. He or she said that it did great in their snowy weather.

-17028

banker74

If you're really concerned about snow, I'd make sure to get the DSTC option. I've heard that it's fantastic. Actually I've heard that in general they do great in it, but living in SoCal I don't really get a chance to do much snow driving (87 degrees and sunny today!)

If you can wait for about a year (maybe a bit more) the PCC/ S60R will have all wheel drive and 300hp to boot. It will be more expensive of course, but certainly would be one heck of a car. I'm looking forward to seeing the PCC/S60R concept car at the LA Auto Show this weekend.

Good Luck

pmvi

Just out of curiosity, does anybody have an idea how much the S60R AWD is going to cost? Also, is it based on the same 5 cylinder engine, and just "chipped out". Does it have an upgraded transmission to handle all that torque? What other upgrades does it have?

I also live in LA, and have already ordered the T5. I'm sure the AWD will be awesome, but it's a little over the top for my needs. It will be nice though to see Volvo with something that competes with the best sports sedans!

charliemike

BMW's DE works just like a normal delivery of in the U.S. except that you get to drive it in Europe for a couple of weeks.

You order the car, it gets built, you go to Europe, get it, boodle around Germany for a week or two, it gets pepped, sent over to the U.S. and you pick it up at the dealer just like anyone else. You pay all taxes for the U.S. like normal, freight, etc but BMW gives you a nice discount because you are ordering the car (so it doesn't really have to do anything except build it).

BMW lists it's discounts on it's web site and tells more about it's DE plan. I'm NOT promoting BMW. I'm just giving info that you can use to compare DE programs and get an idea of discounts.

drewsrx

For those of you who can wait, the Volvo S60 AWD will be coming in August 2001. It will have Haldex AWD which is better than the Audi Quattro system. The Volvo S60R PCC has a 2.4 liter 5-cylinder which makes 300hp. The S60 T5 has a 2.3 liter 5-cylinder engine. The S60R PCC also has Haldex AWD, Active/Adaptive Suspension, and different exterior/interior appointments.

banker74

PMVI,
I'm afraid I don't have any of the answers to your questions. However, if you go to Volvospy.com (not sure if you're familiar with it) you'll most likely find somebody that does. Also, Rollie, a regular on the boards, is a wealth of information.

With respect to chipping, a user at Volvospy by the name of Johann said that Rica, http://www.rica.nl , is already chipping the S60's and IPDUSA should have it soon. I think he said he's at 300hp - wow.

If you're at the show on Sunday you'll see me - I'll be the one drooling on the hood of the the PCC.

andrew75

Just got back from Preview night at LA Auto show. They had the blue PCC/S60R up on a pedestal with the gray/silverr add ons in the previous picture. It is mean looking and grabbed my attention enough to go look at the S60. They had a T5 silver with manual that I sat in. Very nice! Wonder if the wood can be deleted. i am looking to replace my 99 SUV(fell for that stupid trend)
New restyled Passat looks very much like A6( which is closer to my price point. But for a little over 30K a S60 T5 sounds mighty nice.

Enjoy
Andrew

maguire26

How good a deal is the TDS? A local dealer here in NJ will go $600 over invoice for an S60 2.4t. A very good deal I think. Does the TDS option knock that cost even lower? Should I still go the TDS route or take this deal right now?

Luckily, I travel to Belgium every other month on business. The car is made in Ghent, Belgium (northern Belgium I thnk), so picking it up wouldn't be a problem.

maguire26

I test drove a 2.4t the other day and noticed a lag when going from a dead stop trying to accelerating onto the highway. It seemed to take a second for the engone to wind up. It's really annoying, enough to make me question getting the car. I did not notice this on the T5 however. Has anyone else experienced this? Is this the traction control, the turbo charger, the manual trans, or not enough horse? Has anyone seen this on the 2.4t with the geartonic tranmission?

pmvi

A couple things:
1. On new S60 T5's ordered, they don't come with wood trim, but have aluminum mesh trim instead. I ordered a Silver S60 T5 with 5 speed and 17" wheels; it has the aluminum trim.

2. As far as comparing the prices with TDS, I have two sites for you that will tell you exactly what you need to know. First, to figure invoice price, go to Carpoint.com (There are other sites, including Edmunds I think--but I like carpoint). Then to get exact TDS price, go to www.volvoeuropeandelivery.com. These prices include all shipping/destination charges. You have to pay your local sales tax and registration costs of course. Also, you have to insure the car while in Europe (I didn't have to pay this, since I specifically asked the dealer about it, and they said you don't need it if you're driving the car out of the volvo test track--now they are eating this cost of approx $345). If you want to pick up the car in another European city, they add onto the cost. Also, they currently have an offer (recently extended to 3/31) where they give you free round trip air ticket & 1 night hotel stay. After all was said and done, I saved $3,900 off sticker, and $1,200 under invoice. Plus, you have more control over your options (examples: I ordered the car with a 200 watt amplifier-factory installed for $200; let's say you wanted a base model, but wanted stereo controls on the wheel, ore even the "spaceball" shifter....).

Sorry for the length of this message, but it took me a while to assemble all this info for myself, and thought I'd save someone the hassle.

bossnj1

I'm considering the European Delivery program to purchase a new S60. Can anyone comment on their experience with the program so I can make an informed decision?

Thanks

You may e-mail me @ gsosnoski@aol,com

gemwaterloo

Was set to purchase a new Audi A6 2.7, when a friend advised me to test drive the new S60 T. I must admit I was pleasantly surprised. This is a very good car. Fun to drive, comfortable, and quick. Only draw back is the torque steer under hard accellaration off the line. I am of the opinion this would be a great car for the money. Any satisfied (unsatisfied) owners out there or people with advice or comments?