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Toyota Halts Sales of Popular Models - Accelerator Stuck Problem Recall

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  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,450
    It was a pretty little car. The girls in the bank all felt so sorry for him. At least no one was hurt the boss had stepped out of his office. Mercedes built to break the bank. :shades:
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    "Toyota has modified the start-stop buttons in most of its models so that they shut the engine off after three quick pushes, or after being continuously pushed for two seconds. That's two big changes from the old policy that required a continuous three-second push in order to shut down the power."

    Toyota modifies start-stop buttons in case of panic (Detroit Free Press)
  • Steve EliasSteve Elias Posts: 2,207
    gagrice, you stated that both shuttle losses were due to design failures, yet the first one was not: the designers warned in advance not to launch because the temperatures were well below design goals & tests.
    we'd all do well to [re-]read the Feynman addendum to the report on the Challenger.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,450
    I was responding to a poster that acted like I should trust NASA on the Toyota failures.

    Even NASA tried to find any faults in Toyotas but came up empty handed.

    My response was:

    NASA had two unintended shuttle crashes. Both design failures, So nothing is perfect.

    I should have said NASA is not infallible, read reports on the two shuttle crashes.
  • pvtcablepvtcable Posts: 7
    buyer beware of Toyota's next new problems. The Toyota Tundra apparently has a problem with the flex fuel vehicles. The ignition sticks in the vehicle will not start then the vehicle run rough until it is serviced. This happens after 7 or 8 Phillips.the only way to avoid the problem is don't run less than a quarter tank of gas, don't run the car for less than 5 minutes, only use flex fuel only if you can find it.
    the vehicle will run rough and hesitate when accelerating and even in passing gear. Watch out for that 1.there is a little low Realty from Toyota even if you are a repeat customer.regardless how much you spend on that vehicle there is No quick resolve.you will need to refer to the lemon law.Toyota will have to pay legal fees using the lemon law.
  • l943973l943973 Posts: 197
    edited April 2013
    Yesterday, I experienced the accelerator problem, but was resolved. I put no blame on anyone (but myself) but just wanted to share what I found.

    Basically the gas pedal got stuck when I pressed down and when I lifted off it stayed down. The car kept on accelerating so I stayed on the brakes to keep the speed down a bit. Shifted it to Neutral and it just bounced off the rev limiter. Then I remembered folks had problems with it getting stuck with 3rd party floor mats and I use one. I reached down pulled the mat back and then the gas pedal snapped back up. Thankfully the road was empty at the time.

    I pulled over, took the 3rd party floor mat out and went back to running my errands. The mat probably got put back wrong from a car wash attendent. I get it washed quite a bit. Usually the mat never moves but sometimes they pull it out to vacuum it. In all my years of driving a car (27 years), I would have never imagined the gas pedal getting stuck against a raised rubber mat.

    Anways, if you experience this, pull the mats back towards your seat.

    All that said, I still enjoy driving the car.

    Note: I didn't get the recall work done but I suppose it's a good safety precaution.
  • mcdawggmcdawgg Posts: 1,696
    I had this happen over 2 decades ago in a Ford and a Mazda. After that, I always used the floor mat clips you can buy in just about any store. I used them until the automakers started putting in the floor mat clips in and corresponding holes in the mats. Since then, I always use the clips, and I only buy Weathertech floor mats, which are engineered to fit your specific car AND they have the holes so you can use the car's mat holder.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,450
    Toyota accelerator-crash case starts

    Noriko Uno was afraid of driving fast, often avoiding the freeway and taking the same route every day from her Upland, Los Angeles home to and from her family's sushi restaurant. She had put only 16,000km on her 2006 Camry in about four years.

    So when her car unexpectedly accelerated to speeds up to 160km/h on a street with a posted limit of 48km/h, the 66-year-old bookkeeper did everything she could to slow down, stepping on the brake pedal and pulling up the handbrake lever as she swerved to avoid hitting other vehicles.

    Uno was killed when her car went onto a median and struck a telephone pole and a tree.

    Her case is the first to go to trial in a proceeding that could determine whether Toyota should be held liable for sudden unintended acceleration in its vehicles - a claim made by drivers that plagued the Japanese automaker and led to lawsuits, settlements and recalls of millions of its cars and SUVs.


    http://www.iol.co.za/motoring/industry-news/toyota-accelerator-crash-case-starts- -1.1550273#.Ue23XKz5nPU
  • buggy2buggy2 Posts: 3
    I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this as it does not exactly within the year/models noted. But, I've been doing research on my own.
    Approx 3 weeks ago, while turning into a parking stall in a small lot, my 2004 Toy Matrix suddenly accelerated and I could not stop it even quickly checking to make sure I had the brake pedal pressed, not the gas. The car slammed into a concrete building and the insurance totaled it. There was approx 110 K miles on it.

    My research has been extensive. What I have learned is that it is neither the floor mats nor a sticky gas pedal that i causing the problem. Both a NYT article and research by Safety Research http://www.safetyresearch.net/ believe this problem is an electrical one. Specifically, the computer/s used. Note that after the recall of, and replacement, of mats and gas pedal, this problem continues. Even in cases when the airbags deploy and the black box engages, there is nothing recorded on said box during these episodes. As one of my contacts above said, "You can't record an electron."

    The recall for models and dates as posted do not correspond to the actual data collected.

    I am having problems with Toyota Corp. I was advised to notify them about my accident, and did so. I was assigned a "Case Manager" (good grief!), who contacted me by email. I attempted to respond, but replying to his email resulted in a bounce back. Unidirectional communication. Phone calls impossible. I was not immediately available when he called, and when I returned call even within a few minutes, he was "not available", "out of the office", and no one knew when he would be available. I'm not sure what a "Case Manager" does ... at least one that is not involved in health care, but have given up chasing this guy around.

    One thing that I learned from my contacts: Despite the vehicle being a problem, your insurance rates will go up. I will likely have to go to court over this issue.

    Another thing: One organization says that the sudden acceleration most often occurs on highways OR IN PARKING LOTS!!

    There is more, but I will stop for now.
  • buggy2buggy2 Posts: 3
    There is nothing that I can find about this trial that is available doing a search. I've been waiting for something. Anything. But there's zip. Have you found anything?

    Don't know how many of you read about "driver error" being the alleged problem. This trial is important ... for all of us. I wish that I lived closer to LA, so that I could attend and report back.
  • ClairesClaires Chicago areaPosts: 1,222
    edited August 2013
    It looks like the trial started just a couple of weeks ago and is expected to go on for at least 2 months.

    Driver Error No Factor In Fatal '09 Toyota Crash, Jury Told

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  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    edited October 2013
    The California case in your link was decided in Toyota's favor.

    This one just went the other way:

    Okla. jury: Toyota liable in acceleration crash (boston.com)

    There's several hundred more cases pending.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,450
    So Toyota has already paid out $1 billion in hush money. With 100s of cases to go. Looks like their attorneys will be able to retire on just the Toyota lawsuits. I noticed the other day the Bob Baker Lexus is not anymore. They are now part of El Cajon Toyota. I think the lawsuit against Bob Baker is ongoing. They did cause that accident that killed the cop and his family.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    Bob Baker recently lost an appeal in their case to dump their liability onto Toyota/Lexus.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    that's an interesting decision. I can't quite grasp why the dealer would be held responsible for an alleged factory defect
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    That's the case where the dealer put the wrong floormats in the loaner car. My memory is fuzzy, but they may have even stacked two sets of mats in there, and another customer had previously complained to the receptionist about them.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    edited October 2013
    Toyota settles the Oklahoma one before the punitive damage phase began.

    Toyota Agrees to Settlement in Fatal Acceleration Crash (NY Times)

    "Toyota agreed on Friday to a settlement with the families of two women in a fatal crash the morning after an Oklahoma jury became the first to find the company responsible for the unintended acceleration of a car.

    The verdict came after Toyota had won its first three trials over the acceleration issue. Legal analysts said it could embolden plaintiffs in hundreds of other lawsuits that have been filed against the automaker.

    The case is also significant because it is a verdict in a jurisdiction considered to be conservative, and the amount of compensation awarded is substantial."
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,450
    They put a heavy set of rubber floor mats from an RX into the ES350 which was blamed for the uncrontrolled acceleration and high speed crash killing all four occupants. Toyota did accept $10 million in responsibility. Of course that was a "no fault" settlement.
  • buggy2buggy2 Posts: 3
    Thank you for keeping us posted!
  • now that toyota is admitting they had problems going back to 2005 i wonder if they will do a recall on those vehicles? as i own a 2005 camry
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    Usually no one admits anything in a settlement....
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    Why did Toyota settle so fast after the verdict?

    "The electronic glitch has been blamed by some experts and motorists for years, but Toyota has steadfastly denied it. The company has instead blamed floormats creeping up on accelerator pedals and even sticky pedals; it fixed both supposed flaws after recalls. Federal authorities have tended to back the company's position that an electronic design flaw isn't responsible.

    Still, the company has moved to settle several lawsuits in which its electronics could have been implicated. These include a $10-million deal reached in 2010 with survivors of a California Highway patrolman and three family members killed in a runaway Lexus ES outside San Diego.

    The Bookout verdict could embolden more plaintiffs to reexamine the company's electronics design. If that happens, the question of whether the automaker has been dodging blame for faulty engineering might finally get an answer. Stay tuned." (LA Times)

    I think the Lexus case turned on the mats and the extreme publicity, not the electronics, and I'm not sure what the plaintiff's experts at Safety Research & Strategies could come up with after all the investigations, from NASA on down.

    "But Sean Kane, who heads a safety research company in Massachusetts, said the ruling in the Oklahoma case could influence how Toyota proceeds with the dozens of pending lawsuits that target the vehicle's electronics.

    "It's important that this case is only one of many we've examined in which you can point to nothing other than the electronics system in the car," Kane said. "The problem for Toyota in this case was there was a preponderance of evidence to show this wasn't a driver error issue, and it clearly wasn't a floor mat."

    "The fact that it was a jury in Oklahoma — which is generally considered a very conservative, not plaintiff-friendly state — that doesn't bode very well for Toyota." (Yahoo News)
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,450
    I still wonder about that professor that said he could duplicate the electronic problem until Toyota threatened to pull funding from the University where he taught. Looks like more academics are doing research.

    If you have a Toyota vehicle (in the model year 2002-2010) that exhibits sudden unintended acceleration, please contact me

    http://users.ece.cmu.edu/~raj/toyota.html
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,450
    “We are fully convinced that Toyota’s conduct from the time the electronic throttle control system was designed has been shameful,” J. Cole Portis, a lawyer for the plaintiffs, said. “We appreciate that the jury had the courage to let Toyota and the public know that Toyota was reckless.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/26/business/toyota-agrees-to-settlement-in-fatal-- acceleration-crash.html?_r=0
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    edited October 2013
    Some research - that guy didn't even mention tin whiskers. ;)
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 24,926
    > that guy didn't even mention tin whiskers.

    He forgot to include the handling of the past sludging, excuse me, gel problems too.

    As for the electronics, I still believe that _some_ of the problems are from without the group of floor mats, accelerator sender sticking, aged people who suddenly forget which pedal is the brake in the car they've been driving for weeks, months, years. It's my opinion there's another option and toyota knows what it is.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    edited October 2013
    Don't buy the "little old lady" theory 100% of the time? That's what hammered Toyota in Oklahoma, according to Sean Kane's site:

    "The Bookout case had some advantages – a driver who survived the crash and could testify about what happened, and very long tire marks which could attest to her claims of trying to stop the vehicle. Perhaps Toyota was betting the confused-old-lady-driver card would trump all. (Elderly women, poor dears, always pouring boiling water over door knobs, mistaking them for teacups.)"

    I suppose the very long tire marks could be Camry burnouts.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,450
    I suppose the very long tire marks could be Camry burnouts.

    I would imagine a cop could tell the difference between braking and spinning tires. The tires should be a giveaway if it is not a firey crash. The biggest obstacle is the $millions Toyota is willing to spend to win any case. When they give in they know they have lost the battle.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    Camry burnouts was a bit of irony, but I suppose it's not funny to the families.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    edited October 2013
    That man's experiment was discredited because he design elaborate systems to make the original circuits malfunction. In other words, he sabotaged it.

    I could make your ball point pen blow up, in other words.

    "Automotive experts on hand argued that Gilbert's experiments couldn't be recreated on a real road in the real world. They said the professor had shaved away insulation on wiring and connected wires that wouldn't touch.

    Chris Gerdes, director of the Center for Automotive Research at Stanford University, concluded that Gilbert's findings contain "no evidence that I've seen to indicate that this situation is happening at all in the real world."

    Matthew Schwall, an engineer from automotive research firm Exponent Inc., called Gilbert's research "unrealistic manipulation." Exponent prepared a 43-page study that serves as a rebuttal to Gilbert's research. "


    IT GETS BETTER:

    "As a result, the AP [via CBC] reports that Toyota has pulled funding for two internships at SIU, two Toyota employees resigned from its automotive technology program advisory board, and another demanded that Gilbert be fired. The AP seems very keen to call these retaliations “smears,” but given recent revelations about the government investigation into Toyota’s electronic throttle control system, (Shiftright's comment---that is, no evidence of fault found) it seems that Gilbert and SIU are simply reaping what they’ve sown."
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    edited October 2013
    Gary's link was for a different professor at a different school however.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    Gilbert, right? I corrected that.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    edited October 2013
    Prof. Raj Rajkumar, Professor of Electrical and Computer Engineering at Carnegie Mellon University. He's also, ahem, Co-Director for two General Motors-Carnegie Mellon Collaborative Research Labs. :)
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    Oh yeah, I read his report. Very interesting, but it wasn't about "proving" any defect---it was speculation about how such a defect might occur and how a manufacturer might design a way to prevent what might happen.

    The report states quite clearly that no one has duplicated a fault in the Toyota system in the real world.

    Also, the professor recommends that should this happen to you, to put the car in neutral, turn off the ignition and don't pump the brakes repeatedly.

    So what he's implying is that even if there was a defect causing UA, that the driver could over-ride it.

    'Nuff said. I agree with the Prof 100% on that.
  • mcdawggmcdawgg Posts: 1,696
    edited October 2013
    "The report states quite clearly that no one has duplicated a fault in the Toyota system in the real world.

    Also, the professor recommends that should this happen to you, to put the car in neutral, turn off the ignition and don't pump the brakes repeatedly.

    So what he's implying is that even if there was a defect causing UA, that the driver could over-ride it."

    I agree. What's sad is the hate group that tries to prove otherwise, and even hopes that the fault is real. It's my opinion that some people pray that Toyota makes a mistake, or even try to blame Toyota for something without any evidence. Sad.
  • Just purchased a 2007 Sequoia. Looking to replace all the interior trim on the hatch door. It's all scratched up and want to replace with new. Any web sites I can purchase this or do I need to go to a dealer?
  • ClairesClaires Chicago areaPosts: 1,222
    Hi, David,

    Try posting in the Sequoia Maintenance & Repair topic here:
    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.eec8948

    ClaireS, Host
    Automotive News & Views | Coupes & Convertibles

    MODERATOR

    Need help getting around? [email protected] - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

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  • jessie_rjessie_r Posts: 2
    edited January 2014

    Interesting article on the software possibly involved if you haven't read about it yet. Toyota is still all my family will buy, never had issues here.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490

    It is interesting though, that, as far as I've been able to research, this type of incident doesn't seem to happen with manual transmission cars at all.

  • steverstever Posts: 52,462

    Breaking news that so far is just on a Wall St Journal registration req'd page.

    "Toyota Motor Corp. is close to a deal to pay more than $1 billion to end a U.S. criminal probe of how it disclosed drivers' complaints of unintended acceleration, according to people familiar with the matter.

    A settlement could come despite a lack of evidence to date that the cars suffered from a mechanical or electronic defect. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration never found flaws in the electronic throttle-control or control software of the cars in question and determined operator error or floor mats trapping accelerator pedals were involved in most accidents."

  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 20,296

    I still don't believe it.

  • fintailfintail Posts: 51,376

    America, protect the stupid.

  • berriberri Posts: 10,166

    Yep. all these class action lawyers are accomplishing is to drive up costs for the rest of Americans. There is no free lunch. This is overhead that gets added back into prices over time and/or gets written off taxes reducing government revenue that the rest of us have to make up in our taxes.

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 24,926

    WSJ article full link works:
    http://stream.wsj.com/story/latest-headlines/SS-2-63399/SS-2-449664/

    "In taking on Toyota, prosecutors are going after an industry that watchdog groups have long complained is given too free a ride from regulators and from legal scrutiny for safety issues."

    "“This is a landmark case because the auto industry has bobbed and weaved and done everything possible to avoid criminal sanctions forever,” said Joan Claybrook, who led NHTSA from 1977 to 1981."

    ""Prosecutors’ settlement with Toyota is expected to include a criminal deferred prosecution agreement with the car maker, according to several people familiar with the negotiations.

    "The precise terms of the agreement that is being considered with Toyota are unclear, but such agreements generally place a company facing prosecution under probation for a set number of years, during which time the company has to fulfill certain compliance obligations to avoid criminal charges."

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    edited February 2014

    Hm, the story also says "Toyota said in November 2013 that it had received two subpoenas each from the Securities and Exchange Commission and Manhattan federal prosecutors in February and June 2010 related to "unintended acceleration and certain financial records...."

    That helps further explain why Toyota settled the class action.

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