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Acura RL



  • l943973l943973 Posts: 197
    The fact that they are going with a more sporty style makes me think that the 05 model may be smaller than the current model. I guess it can't be too small, otherwise it would be the same size as the TL.

    Any chance the 05 RL could be 203 in long from the pictures? I use to think the RL was large, but after a few years of ownership, it feels small. It needs more rear legroom when the front seats are pushed back. I hope the next model is at least the size of the S-Class.
  • swsmsswsms Posts: 62
    I943973 - Based on the pics above, It doesn't look like the '05 RL will be longer than it is today.
  • wsag26wsag26 Posts: 124

    I looked at this picture at this website and looked at the spy picture. Then I looked at the next gen TL which should come out next year and I've figured out that all Acura sedans will probably look similar to the european version of the Honda Accord. I figured this out because the next gen TL has a similar grille to what looks like the next gen RL and the brand new TSX. We know that Acura is suppose to dump the CL soon, so there will only be 3 sedans on the lineup. Each one will look the same though. Hope this will be like how Nissan's sedans are finally looking similar. Especially if it is a HIT!
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I hope Acura hasn't give up the Coupe market forever, there is nothing more boring than all sedans, especially if they're all going to look alike. Audi was the only company able to pull off such a thing, only because they make good looking cars by default, Honda/Acura doesn't.

  • carguy58carguy58 Posts: 2,303
    they are classing looking cars but are they sporty No. I'll give Audi credit though at least in 02 they did change up the A4 a little bit on the outside to differentiate it from the A6.
  • px260px260 Posts: 42
    The spy photo referenced above sure reminds me of the current Maxima - not a very appealing style from both front and back. Hopefully the production version RL will look much better.
  • kps0311kps0311 Posts: 6
    An Acura dealer some distance from home has an '00 RL (w/o Navi) with less than 5K mi., for which he is asking $30K. (The car is NOT Acura certified pre-owned.) I'm sure that, with a little haggling, I can get the price down a little. However, even at, say, $28K, is this a good deal for a car that's 4 model years old already?

    Kelley BB and NADA estimate the retail value of this vehicle to be about $27.5K, and '00 RLs with normal miles are selling for less than $25K. My concern is that the vehicle is still depreciating at a fairly steep rate and that I might be left holding the bag (upside down in my loan) if I am forced to sell within a year or two. Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated.
  • dave241dave241 Posts: 1
    I am looking to buy a used RL. I've been talking to a local Honda dealer regarding a 2000 RL w/ 50,000 miles. As I went to test drive the car today, the salesman mentioned that in addition to replacing certain of the tires the transmission was also to be "overhauled" by an Acura mechanic on Monday. Turns out, they are putting in a new transmission. Another salesman mentioned that he had an RL and his transmission had also been replaced via a recall. No other specifics were given.

    I have looked at several RLs (mainly at Acura dealerships) and have not heard anything regarding potential problems w/ the transmission. Any information would be appreciated as although I plan to buy a warranty/service contract, I would like to go into buying an RL w/ as much info as possible.

    By the way, the sales manager looked at me as though I were crazy for walking away from the deal upon learning the transmission was being replaced. Perhaps I am, but I don't know how smart it would be to pay approx. $22,000 for a car that has already needed a new transmission.
  • jwilson1jwilson1 Posts: 956
    My take: Although the car has only average miles, the transmission thing is a new wrinkle ... I'd want it evaluated (AFTER the new trans is installed) by an independent mechanic as well as a significant reduction in price as $22k is a good price for a '00 in just right condition.

    But I don't think I'd let the new transmission squelch the deal if you like the car AND if the independent inspection of the car goes well .... after all, the problem has been fixed in a way that you can pretty much think it won't be an issue in the future, in fact may be the strongest link in the drive train.

    But if there's anything to be suspicious of, with that history I'd surely walk. Let us know. JW
  • jwilson1jwilson1 Posts: 956
    This guy is dreaming.

    Your numbers are far too generous. NADA and KBB are both good sources, but they give you "listing" prices, or asking, not selling prices. Edmunds is a little better for that, actually.

    Looking your car up on Edmunds, the TMV is $22484. I don't know where you live, or the color of the car to make (minor) allowances, but Edmunds says you can add on $1823 for mileage. This gives a total value of $24307. At that rate, the car is overpriced by about 20-25%. Ridiculous, imo.

    However, I also think Edmund's mileage calculation is none too generous, so personally I'd be inclined to go out to say $25k.

    Consider: 1)it's not certified. You've gotta wonder -- why not? If ANY car is worth pre-certification, it oughta be one with low mileage. If he is willing to certify it, that would be worth another $1000, and in fact essential imo.

    2)such low mileage isn't really a blessing. This car has only had about a thousand miles/year put on it, most likely extremely short trips .... how dried out are all the seals and .... so on. The general rule of thumb I go by is that a car should have about 3000 miles/yr to keep it in good health. A couch potato car could be in as bad health as if it had been pushed hard by a teenager, so I'd probably have it checked by an independent mechanic and get an extended warranty and an additional discount if he isn't willing to certify it.

    Low mileage would be more attractive if this were a Chevy or Ford. A good Acura should be able to handle 150,000 without trouble.

    3) This is actually a 5 yr. old car. The '04s are out and you have to include its initial year of service (00), which began in 99.

    4) I wouldn't be too worried about depreciation at this point. It shouldn't decline more than a couple thousand next year.

    If I wanted the car, my bid to him would be something like $24500, $25500 if he 's willing to certify or add an extended warranty (with an indepth inspection at my choice of mechanics). Go in with your loan approved (AAA, perhaps) so you can write a check. He'll probably say he can't go lower than 28. Do you like the car enough to go to $26000? If so, let him have that. If not, give him your phone# again, tell him he must have eager buyers waiting but if they fall through within the next day to give you a call. If it takes longer than that, you have "something else in mind" -- he may give you a call and you may get a car. If not, used Acuras are everywhere. Even if he gives you your price, be ready to walk if the mechanic's appraisal raises expensive questions about seals an so on.

    Hope this helps. JW
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    I won't be surprised if you can get a 2003 RL for $35K, and that dealer is asking you $30K for a 2000!

    Mileage is not always the point, age is too. I would rather have a newer car that has more miles on it than an older car with less.
  • kps0311kps0311 Posts: 6
    Thanks to JW and Robertsmx for your insight. I agree that $26K is about the max. reasonable selling price for the vehicle, as it sits.

    When I asked the salesman about certifying the vehicle, his response was that when Acura certifies a vehicle, they also set the selling price, and the dlr. has no room for negotiating. He might be blowing smoke here, I dunno. Regardless, I won't buy the vehicle with no factory warranty remaining, unless it can be replaced by other warranty coverage.

    By the way, the dlr. is about 450 mi. from home (the Internet does have its downside - you can shop online all over the country, but you can't kick a single tire!) So this makes appraisals by independent mechanics problematic, not to mention repeated return trips to the dealer.

    The salesman promised to call me Monday morning with the vehicle's inservice date and his "best price." We shall see. Thanks again for the advice.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    First Mercedes, Lexus follows, then BMW, and now Acura. Is there anyone out there who can explain why cars have gotten so incredibly ugly? I always thought Acura, although bland, was a step ahead in styling refinement. It all ends with the 05 RL if the above spy shot is accurate. Don't know which is worse--this or the 04 BMW 530. However, it's not surprising now that the world has been treated to the ugliest Accord of all time. Nice work Honda, you really don't want to be left behind.
  • carguy58carguy58 Posts: 2,303
    We all know Honda has been targeted throughout their existence for bland styling. Now Honda is trying to change that up but the results aren't very good. Like I posted on the Mazda 3 board before I think car makers are going for fuel efficiency and interior room with cars nowadays and I thats the reason for the akward styling too that we see on cars nowadays. With SUv's selling more too I guess car makers are watering down their exterior styling on cars so their SUV's can still sell without being targeted by the federal government so the average car brands fuel mileadge doesn't look so bad on paper.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Just curious, what Mercedes is ugly to you?


    Fuel efficiency and interior room have nothing to do with why certain cars look they way they do. BMW had no reason other than "just because" to change their look. Likewise the Japanese's blandess is not because of fuel economy or room, their cars were ugly and/or bland long before today's engineering/market requirements.

  • l943973l943973 Posts: 197
    I think part of the reason cars are getting uglier is because its probably cheaper to use less curves in a design. As mentioned in the previous post, adding more usuable space to the inside of the car without changing the width of the car must be pretty tough.

    I also see the Maxima design in the 05 RL. I initially didn't like the Maxima design, but I was next to one for a while on the highway yesterday and I have to say the style is really growing on me. (except for the front square block that hold the badge. Makes the car look like it has buck teeth, same with the RX-8 with a license plate).

    I remember reading a story in C&D where they talked to one of Nissan's designer on a boxy car they built. They asked him what car gave him his inspiration. He said that he wasn't really a car person and drew his inspiration from a refrigerator and its smooth lines. When Goshen saw the design, he said something like, "You must be kidding, no?". He still signed off on it. Thankfully, it only remains in Japan.

    I haven't like the recent styling of the Mercedes either. The S-Class looked cheaper than its predecessor. They side molding on the S-Class looks cheap just because they look tacked on. A lot of cheaper cars have similar molding (Jaguar X-Type). The new CLK looks like a cross between an Acura CL and a Volvo S70 Coupe with little to no styling. Thankfully the SL500 and new E-Class didn't go the ugly styling route in my opinion.
  • swsmsswsms Posts: 62
    There are hard plastic caps on the front and rear ends so we don't know what the '05 RL is truly going to look like. We can speculate based on what we have seen on the TSX and '04 TL pics but that's it.

    It is very hard to judge the looks of a car unless we have the fully 'unmasked' picture. We'll just have to wait until October at the Tokyo Auto Show to see the final '05 RL concept.
  • carguy58carguy58 Posts: 2,303
    Everybody says how bland it its. Its not that bad its just not innovative. The Japanese are more known for their engines. The Germans always have shined with their styling and prestige. The Domestic Big 3 shines at making the best SUV's.

    About the Maxima's design I don't think I will ever like it.

    About BMW I don't like the 7 Series or new 5 Sreries. The new 7 series looks like a bunch of Chrysler designs sandwitched together(Front end mid 80's 5th Avenue, and back end 01+ Sebring.) The new 5 Series looks like a Pontiac in the front and the back end looks like a botched 1999-2000 Mazda Millenia.
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    I think many folks do not see just how extensive the masking in that photo really is. We're not talkin' tape and badge removal. We're talking something like the S2000's optional hardcover stretched across the front end. The entire front and back might as well be shielded with full-size sheets of plywood.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    I've got major problems with every MB--could write a book on it. If someone put a gun to my head and said choose, I'd take an S and close my eyes to the amoeba head lamps, incongruent triangular tail lamps, and Taurus-like concavity (although not as exaggerated) along the sides. In my opinion, the only redeeming feature is its lonsdale proportion--there is a slender elegance to it as opposed to the porcine BMW 7.

    Merc1, I hope you don't take it personally. I'm a BMW owner and am coming down HARD on all new bummers.. I mean bimmers. I was always an Acura fan based on refined style, fit and finish... but apparently this is going to change... big time.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Oh, nothing personal taken...just curious when people say things like that. What cars do you find attractive?

  • jwilson1jwilson1 Posts: 956
    Without a warranty on a low-miles car (the part about Acura setting the car price is pure BS, I'm sure, though they do set the warranty price probably) and an independent inspection, I'd pass for sure.

    There are lots of good RLs out there with people who actually want to sell them. You can find another.

    Finally, I've bought cars at a distance before and arranged for the inspection by phone. It requires finding a decent garage (use the web??) and calling them to ask them to pick up the car and go through it. Not as good as being there of course, but better than nothing.

    Good luck. JW
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    On the sedan level-

    3rd Place: 03 BMW 530. Simple, even banal, but there are no exaggerated features. Sophisticated interior. Performance is unbeatable, however we're talking about design here.

    2nd Place: 04 Audi A8 with caveat. They should be arrested for the manhole-cover wheels. However, this is easily corrected. I would also trim down the upper end of the butt and shorten the roofline a bit so the rear end looks a little less truncated. Finally, flatten out the tail lamps--too much of a departure from the front end. This seems to be a lot of criticism for a second place car, but I'm probably being fussy.

    1st Place: 03 Acura TL. Proportions are damn near perfect, shapes are balanced and no one aspect screams for attention. I also like the low cut dash, and Acura upholstery is among the best. Nicely cut 5-spoke wheels hold it all together in sporty fashion. Too bad this couldn't be scaled up to RL. I might have done something a little different with the trunk lip, but it's not a stone in my shoe.

    Designer's dream: 04 Lamborghini Gallardo and Murcielago. I favor the latter in frontal 3/4 view, the former in profile. In trying to find fault with Lamborghini design one could make an argument with the bull in the badge. I could study these babies for hours and hours.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    02 911 Coupe and Boxster: prettiest butts around. Lines and shapes flow like no other. The evolution of the frog was exemplary. Purists stop in the mid 90's. I'll jump off here...

    On the design front Porsche shows signs of going downhill too. For lack of anything better to do they're starting to get heavy with the palette knife... cutting unnecessary swaths into the moldings and bumpers of the 03s. Also, how could they skip over a performance sedan and wagon in favor of a frivolous SUV pig? The technology they pumped into the Cayenne is amazing... and dubious. Spy shots of future Porsches are heartbreaking.

    I'm foraging for some good auto design news... somebody... HELP!
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Very interesing...I too find the A8 and 911 to be very good looking cars, especially the 911 C4S.

    Where we differ is on the TL. I don't see anything remotely attractive about the Acura TL, it's dull and forgettable in standard trim and just slightly better looking in TL-S form, just my opinion.

    I've always thought the Boxster was good looking until you get a side view, it's too long in the front, looks like a giant lip sticking out. The Carrera GT has the same shape/design but is better balanced.

    I'd have to also agree that future pics of certain cars don't offer all that much hope. However I think it's still a little early to judge the 05' RL. I'm just guessing here, but I figure they'll make it look like an even bigger 04' TL, which is just a bigger version of the TSX. This is an age-old European car design'd they say it...same sausage, different lengths.

    BMW, BMW. I'm kinda in a state of disbelief over their new designs. I tried so hard to like the 7-Series, but at the end of the day I can't lie to myself, the car is just plain ugly. The new 5-Series doesn't promise to be any better. The 6-Series is merely "ok" until you see that Banglized trunklid, yuck. The X3 is funny looking too. Funny thing is though, the Bangle look is downright fitting on the Z4, I have to say he nailed it with the Z4.

    Oh, I guess since you're critiqing designs, I must ask what you think of the Bentley Continental GT, Aston-Martin Vanquish, Jaguar XJ8 and say...the Enzo.

    About the Cayenne, I think Porsche had to do it. As you see 911 and Boxster sales are way down this year, but Porsche's overall sales are up YTD, due to the pepper truck. The SUV market is just way too big for most companies to ignore. Even Maserati and Alfa have SUVs in the works. I loved the Lamborghini LM002, and a replacement would be wonderful for the brand I think.

    Sorry for rambling.

  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    I don't think you are rambling at all... thanks for the exchange.

    So I don't get slapped by the moderator for digressing, let me mention what's on my mind with the 05 RL. The Maxima shape comparison is accurate and disappointing. It seems many have a problem with "upright" and "boxy" shapes. The point is clear. However, I have a problem with four wheels--how boring that all cars have them. Upright and boxy comes with the sedan format--it's hard to get away from and most attempts are feeble in my opinion. A blue pinstripe suit is a blue pinstripe suit. Cut it from fine cloth and tailor it well. The wedge works with the RSX and sport cars that forsake the back seat. I say don't bring it to the sedan.

    Merc1, I need a day to respond to your post... good conversation. Will get to the subjects at a later date. Need time to digest the Bentley. I think I like the countenance by virtue of shape but I may have a problem with the molded plastic look.

    With regard to Bangle and BMW... I think they're going to have big marketing problems. Their direction and execution is way off. Will it be enough to sway the deep-rooted BMW performance cult? Not all, but many.

    Work beckons... later.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 11,025
    Not going to slap you :) I'm always happy to see people discuss & disagree reasonably. As long the discussion doesn't totally exclude Acura, I'm OK with it wandering a bit.


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  • carguy58carguy58 Posts: 2,303
    The thing that bothers me about BMW with these designs is BMW has younger buyers in their 40's where as Mercedes and Lexus have buyers in their 50's. I don't think BMW's target audience is going to be down with their new styling. On the Z4 it looks kinda agressive for my tastes.

    Ok don't want to exclude Acura then. I just don't get why are their cars are going to look the same I mean the TSX isn't going to beat the Mazda 6, VW Passat, or Nissan Altima in any beauty contests but the TSX is still classy knida bland but the exterior styling has alot of class to it. As for the TL the headlights are going to be too small for a luxury car. When you see a luxury car in your rear view mirror on the highway you want it to make a statement in the styling department. The 99 3 Series makes a statement in the styling department as does the 02-03 TL. The 99-01 TL didn't make any statements. Another example of a car not make any statements in the exterior styling department would be the 95-99 Infinti I 30. There is no styling standout on that whole car.
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