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Acura RL



  • cericceric Posts: 1,092
    I think no one doubts Honda's capability in engines unless one is ignorant. In 1995, Mugen-Honda already developed outstanding V8, V10 for Formula-1 racing. Shockingly high rpm and hp. It is just a pity that Honda decided not to commercialize V8 for production. Instead, they chose to refine their V6 to a even higher level. I have no problem with that. I'm not fixated to V8.

    Statistics show that Lexus have better reliability by a good margin, but not bullet proof. I would rather refocus on the discussion of new RL.
  • carguy58carguy58 Posts: 2,303
    See that makes me mad when somebody who isn't even going to buy an Acura is saying this and that.

    Whoever said the 05's RL interior is comparable to the G35's is wrong. THe G35's interior is cheap. I don't the 05 RL's interior is cheap.

    As far as Japanese Built vehicles uhh... this is not 1985 anymore(I think when people look at vehicles now they are judging on facts that are 20 years old.) Most of all the Japanese Cars are built in America nowdays or have been since the late 80's.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    The G35 isnt even on the same planet as far as interior materials and fit and finish are concerned. What is kind of embarrasing is I've test driven both a G35 sedan and a Maxima 3.5SL... and I think the Max has the better interior. The G35 is barely enough to keep up with an RSX interior wise, not an RL. The new M45 might be able to compete interior wise, but nothing else Infiniti has can, and thats assuming the production car keeps the concept's hq materials and design. Even still, I'll be happy to see the awful design gone on the current M45, Q45. That has to be one of the worst console designs ever put in a car, and is probably at least part of the reason for the lack of Q, M sales.

    Yes, a good number of Japanese nameplates are built in the USA, and a good number of American nameplates are made in Mexico, and China.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Honda could build a V12 for RL, if they needed it. There comes the differentiation between needs and wants. Understanding that aspect leads to prioritizing the essentials. There simply isn’t a good enough market for Honda to invest in something that will yield little to no returns.

    I see a point in development of Jet engines, a point in development of ASIMO (humanoid robot), a point in development of electric motors and a point in development of fuel cell powered drive train. These things either help diversify business, or help create a better future.

    Honda would have no trouble investing in development of V8 engines, but what would be the point? To put this in perspective, Honda manufactures a flat-6 engine, but only used in couple of motorcycles. Obviously, the company isn’t shy of venturing into something new (although the first Honda Flat-6 appeared in 1975, I believe).

    Doing something just for bragging is just plain dumb IMO. Honda’s priority in the late 90s was to create a light truck lineup, so the company did focus more in that direction, and rightfully so, given the market division between light trucks and cars. Now that things have stabilized quite a bit, the focus can be on something else.

    I see no need for V8. We can always want RL to have V8, but the ingredients the car really needed seem to have been addressed. It should make an intelligent buyer think twice before tossing extra dollars for the sake of “V8 bragging rights”.
  • jeff88jeff88 Posts: 94
    Well, guess I would have to cite VW's experience in adding a v8 to the passat line-up. it was essentially a thud, shoulder shrug and all. the passat didn't come close to doubling-down on sales based on 2 more cylanders.

    However, I suspect higher reliability ratings would have kept it at the top of the family sized desireability factor for comparison shoppers. As it is, what has been the anchor on the passat sales performance is the issue of maintenance. As I would much rather drive a passat than an accord, I would rather own the accord, v8/v6 notwithstanding.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    The RL doesnt need an 8. If somebody wanted to create a sleeper rocket out of an RL, a simple aftermarket turbo would do the job nicely. If this latest 3.5L is anything like the famous Toyota inline, 450hp would be a cakewalk.

    The Passat has all kinds of problems. The 2.8 engine is not good enough, the Japanese and even GM and Chrysler have much better six cylinders available. The W8 was a nice idea in theory, but 275hp was the best they could do? The 350Z beats that with a six, and the G35 sedan could easily make 280hp+ if Nissan wanted it to. All motion 4WD was another nice idea, but saddled to the underpowered W8 and you have a $40,000+ slug, with bad gas mileage, and VW makes the worst NAV systems in the entire industry. Im not even sure if the Passat offers one at all, considering how old it is. The Japanse are starting to learn how to copy Passat driving feel. The Accord, with some real tires as opposed to the very mediocre all seasons it comes with, drives very nicely. The Mazda 6 is another car thats a hoot to toss around, and both will show their taillights to a Passat 2.8 with ease.
  • venus537venus537 Posts: 1,443
    i don't know of any v6s from chrysler or GM (except the one used in the saturn VUE Red Line - it's a honda!) that match the smoothness and refinement of VW's 2.8L engine. it's under powered though compare to most of today's V6s.

    next year VW will correct this problem with the new passat. new jetta next year too, way too long for that car.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    When I refered to GM and Chrysler I mostly meant from a horsepower perspective, rather than ultimate refinement. GM has a certain new DOHC V6 that makes 240hp thats supposed to show up in some of their new cars. Technically Chrysler has the M-B 320 engine at their disposal :)

    We'll see about this new Passat. If VW decides to use their current 3.0L, its still going to be not enough, that engine is barely capable enough to keep the A4 3.0 midpack, which is a smaller and lighter car than the Passat, and I dont think the 3.2 DFI will make it, they have to do something to seperate the Passat from an A6. Of course the Phaeton and A8 compete with each other, so maybe the Passat will become the VW A6.
  • cericceric Posts: 1,092
    Talked to an Acura salesman today.
    According to him...

    Production begins Sept-Oct.
    Dealer training in Oct.
    Delivery end of Oct to early Nov.
    Most likely there is NO option at all.
    Everything is standard. Some dealer-install options remain.

    Just FYI.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    Wow, no options huh. The current RL is about $46,000, no options. That means that the new RL w/ all its improvements and AWD will probably be about $50,000.

    A similarly featured (pretty much fully loaded) AWD M35 will probably be about $50,000 as well. But I'm thinking that the majority of the people don't opt for the AWD, Navi and some of the "tech" items, which means that the MSRP of the most popularly configured model would be about $44,000.

    This is all conjecture of course.

    Early November, then about 4 months later, the GS and the M come out. Gonna be a battle.
  • sphinx99sphinx99 Posts: 776
    I predict that the new RL will sell for well below MSRP, just like the old one, unless they price this one at $40k.
  • cericceric Posts: 1,092
    The salesman said the new RL would be fully loaded well below $50K guaranteed. By the tone of voice, I would guess around $45K, close to what it is now but with more new features + SH-AWD. Also had a chance to sit in the new TL. The interior is luxury, modern and beautiful. Certainly hope the RL interior is nothing less but more.

    M35 exterior is as polarizing as new BMW-5. You either love it or hate it. For me, the latter. I wouldn't pay for it even if it is $5K cheaper.

    I guess people buying cars in the price range ($40K+) let their emotion take over a bit. Any 100% rational person would probably buy a Camry or an Accord instead.
  • jeff88jeff88 Posts: 94
    Probably the rl will sell at close to or right on the msrp # for the 1st wave of buyers just like the tl, mdx did, and 2004 tl does today. after production picks up and the initial orders are satisfied it may drop a bit. if the car rags tout it or motor trend names it car of the year, it will stay on msrp for a while longer. if consumer reports loves it, then it stays on msrp for a long, long time. my guess is that the rl will sticker at 45-47 and try hard to have msrp, ttl stay under 50. that 50 number today is like the 40 number 5-7 years ago.

    if the rl mirrors the mdx, don't look for any significant pricing reductions for a while. best bets will be then to buy one coming off a 2-3 year lease unless your are prepared to go full boat.
  • cericceric Posts: 1,092
    I agree with Jeff on the point that RL would sell at MSRP for one or two years. Acura would price it to resuscitate RL to show market presence. A flagship (at least now) has to bootstrap other models' sale. I bet on $45K fully loaded, no factory option.

    BTW, the salesman also told me that the TL-navi is hard to get a hold of. It is selling very well.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    I don't agree that the M's exterior is as polarizing as the 5's. From what I read in various forums (many non-Nissan) and reviews, the overwhelming majority seem to really like the car's styling.

    It would be great if the new RL came at $45,000 MSRP. I just don't know how this is possible, since the current one is $46,000. Adding AWD alone should make it $48,000.

    We'll see though. It's possible that they cut costs in various places. Maybe platform sharing with the TL (a streched version) will help them lower costs.
  • ksomanksoman Posts: 593
    i dont know why people would get a TL without Navi, its simply one of the most simple Nav's to use and fairly capable one. On the RL, they had it as an option for a while, they should just make it standard. period.
  • nebraskaguynebraskaguy Posts: 341
    Starting with the 2004 RL (possibly earlier, though I don't think so) navi came standard. I would doubt very much they'd reverse that for 2005. Either way, I wouldn't have a car without navi.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Im not a traditional Infinti fan, and I really like the styling of the new M. The front end is certainly light years ahead of the current car's, which is just awful. The rear reminds me of sort of a cross between the G and Q, which isnt necessarily a bad thing. My guess is, given its chief GS300 and M35 competition, a $45-46K sticker,
  • jeff88jeff88 Posts: 94
    While the rl sticker is around 45 for the pre-2005 model, they generally sold at 5-6k less than sticker. the reason that the rl may come in with much more capability than current, up to and including nav and awd is that they are already selling this functionality at lower costs on the mdx. the payback for investing in awd has been made back many times with the mdx and pilot.

    car manufacturers have long since figured how to price and achieve breakeven on cars. they know when to pull triggers on production afor accelerating or closing runs down to probably less than very few cars.

    it was always funny to me that someone might buy an rl over an mdx once the mdx was out there. the mdx came with a better tranny, engine, drive system and more room w/o sacrificing much if anything in handling and ride at less sticker price. the reality is that the rl was "drove off" for less. unless you had to have a sedan, could not figure out why anyone bought the rl over the mdx period.
  • cericceric Posts: 1,092
    Jeff, I would agree with you between MDX and the current RL. If you were comparing MDX and the new RL, I dare to disagree. RL would naturally be more luxurious and handling oriented than MDX. MDX road-holding would not be more than 0.8 (no data at hand). Any sporty sedan would do 300ft road-holding above 0.85. SUV and minivan are below 0.75 mostly.

    With a similar reasoning of yours, I would buy Pilot instead of MDX. It all comes down to how each person appreciate the differences between two. I have no problem with people loving the new M. However, the Edmund new M forum has been awfully quiet. Don't know why...
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    A lot of Nissan/Infiniti owners/prospective buyers tend to mingle at a different forum dedicated just for Nissan/Infiniti products. I don't think I'm allowed to name that forum here though.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    There's actually a pretty significant difference between even the old RL and the MDX. My wife's RX300 comes from the ES, but the two of them drive nothing like each other. I tend to generally not like the high seating position, the body roll during cornering, and the front end dive during hard braking. I dont know about the old car, but the new RL should absolutely take the MDX to school when it comes to the skidpad. "Soft-roaders" are fine for housewives, and when I need to pick up something large, or go to the airport, but they are definitely not something I'd want as a daily driver.
  • rdharamsrdharams Posts: 17
    Warranty on my 2000 RL will soon expire. I inquired with the local Acura dealer and they are quoting $1589 for a 7/75k warranty.

    1. Has anyone gotten a better deal?
    2. Somebody mentioned a AAA warranty. anyone has had positive/negative experiences with it?
    3. Is it possible to buy acura warranty from any dealer nation wide?

    Feedback is highly appreciated.
  • jeff88jeff88 Posts: 94
    Was just pointing out that the mdx was much more content rich than the rl (until now). as for me, I'd pick the 05 rl over the mdx for all the reasons given above. however, given a choice between an '04 rl and '04 mdx, I'd be ridin' high.

    as for the pilot v mdx, it gets back to content and tuning. the mdx is much more attractive to me in all regards.

    a close friend is an mb bigot. (2) 3-starred rides in his driveway and now he's talking about the new rl (w/some prodding from me). he's been out of warranty on one of his mb's for a couple of years and it's been toll heavy for him. his wife recently and uncoerced commented from the back of my old beater '96 that she likes the acura better than his mb. course I'm also prodding him toward an xj8 which is what I'd have if money was no would be almost as good to ride in his. seriously, if the rl pans out anywhere nearly as good as the descriptions say it will, what else would one buy under 50k unless they were looking strictly for a racer?
  • cericceric Posts: 1,092
    Jeff, I would agree with you between MDX and the current RL. If you were comparing MDX and the new RL, I dare to disagree. RL would naturally be more luxurious and handling oriented than MDX. MDX road-holding would not be more than 0.8 (no data at hand). Any sporty sedan would do 300ft road-holding above 0.85. SUV and minivan are below 0.75 mostly.

    With a similar reasoning of yours, I would buy Pilot instead of MDX. It all comes down to how each person appreciate the differences between two. I have no problem with people loving the new M. However, the Edmund new M forum has been awfully quiet. Don't know why...
  • pg48477pg48477 Posts: 309
    Why would you even compare SUV and midsize sedan?
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    No surprise there, the TL already has more horsepower than FWD can really handle. The TSX could use the Accord's 3.0L, that little four banger is nice.. but its just not enough grunt.

    Jeff, while I have nothing against Jaguar, I even own an XKR at the moment, I'll be the first to admit that buying a new Jaguar is about one of the dumbest decisions you can possibly make. Jaguar has just about the worst residual of any luxury car company. For example, an '01 XJ8 with reasonable mileage (50K), is literally a $22,000 car. You can get one for the price of a Chevy Impala, which is why until recently I've been buying XK8s and Rs 3-4 years old, but I've grown tired of the reliability issues and general blandness, Jags arent particularly entertaining to drive, and the J-gate shifter is still just as bad as the first one. If your friend is considering a J8, I would strongly urge him to consider a new LS430 instead. It will out accelerate, outbrake, and with the sport suspension, outhandle even the new aluminum bodied car. You also get Lexus reliability, strong residual, and the NAV, but the real treat is the Mark Levinson stereo.

    My home system is a five figure setup powered by twin Parasound Halo monoblocks and SSP, and the Levinson sytem comes pretty damn close to recreating that kind of listening experience in the car. None of the German's bose setups can even come within a country mile. Jaguar is forced to share Alpine audio components with Ford, and the "premium" system in the XKR is a joke.
  • cericceric Posts: 1,092
    rsholland, the news while interesting does not specify the year that it would happen. Acura must know that TL with SH-AWD would eat into potential market of RL. I bet it won't happen until maybe 2007, giving RL a couple years of breathing room.

    Lexusguy, have you tried the BMW Logic-7 system on newer 7-series? I heard it was pretty good also. I once sat in a LS430 with M/L. It was crispy. Way ahead of Alpine in older BMW.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Cant say that I have, I'm not sure if I would even be able to figure out how to get a CD to actually play on that car anyway :)
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