It probably disapeared from the list because I told Acura that VerizonWireless had emailed me that they were still deciding whether to change the firmware on the V710 phone to make it fully compatible with the RL. Acura had previously notified me of the firmware version to get from Verizon for compatabity. Verizon emailed me that it was still being tested and was not available. The V710 currently will allow handsfree phone operation but will not allow the data transfer necessary for full compatablility. They gave no date for their compatability decision to be made.
Thanks for the info. I recently purchased the phone and re-newed my contract. We need to continue the communication and pressure on Verizon to release the necessary compatibility firmware. I also communicated with Motorola about this issue and they informed me of the firmware need and directed me to Verizon. Verizon responded with a typical PR communication. I'm sure you've seen a few of those. They're holding this back purely for marketing and billing issues. Other carriers and phone manufacturers offer full compatibility. Verizon needs to hear from us and we need to keep the pressure on them.
Does anyone have pictures they can post (or a place I can go see) that show the mud/splash guards or the low profile/lip spoiler? Are the mud flaps the same color as the car?
Kennyg5, I think I understand the underlying premise of your question. It is an interesting point to ponder. I agree with the idea that one must be careful with just looking at raw statistics and concluding that whichever car delivers comparable or better statistics at a lower price represents value.
However, I also believe that in my opinion there would be a few things to consider when comparing $25,000 cars like the Accord to $33,000 cars like the TL to $48,000 cars like the RL:
1. In my view, each increment in price should yield a clear improvement in luxury and performance. In the case of the TL vs. the Accord, this is clearly true (both in luxury and performance).
Some Korean makers may in fact improve enough in reliability and luxury and performance to be considered vs. the Acuras. I don't think it has happened yet but if it does consistently, then that make will begin to earn the prestige and also represent good value vs. the Accord and perhaps even vs. the TL over time. I do not reject your inference that prestige is worth something -- I would pay some premium to drive an Acura vs. an equivalent Honda. However, as I have stated, I think the TL tops the Accord by a significant margin on features and is worth the premium.
2. The RL is a very nice car and is certainly worth some premium to the TL. However, I am less concerned about paying $15,000 more for the car and more concerned about the fact that it is supposed to be the top of the line Acura. Yet, to me it represents a disappointing set of compromises when compared with what it could and should be. These compromises are revealed by the fact that it does not compare especially well with the TL on several metrics.
Said another way, some may argue that the RL is worth say a $10,000 premium to the TL. I am not really hung up on figuring out what the right premium is to the TL or other cars. Rather, I expected (hoped) the new RL would be clearly superior in performance and luxury and I would gladly pay a $15,000 or greater premium for such a top of the line Acura. And the crazy thing is, Acura could have easily done it. The handling is vastly improved, the interior appointments are nice and the electronic/tech features are very solid. But braking is subpar (you know this is an issue for me), acceleration is average and I think the back seat and trunk space are marginal and styling of tail end does not do it for me.
I have no problem paying a premium but I just think the car should deliver noticeably more than peers and other lower priced models from that same maker (especially because you are getting the same reliability, fit/finish, and to certain degree prestige if you buy say another model of Acura).
The Detroit News just published a "preview" of the new RL. They seem to be far more impressed by the value and performance than a few of the folks here. Here's a few relevant quotes:
"The RL looks like a real value, especially when you compare it to the $63,510 base sticker price on the 2005 Cadillac STS all-wheel drive model and such premium European competitors as the slightly more expensive 2005 Audi A6 and 2005 Mercedes-Benz E320 4Matic."
"The latest incarnation of Acura's flagship sedan is one of the most impressive cars we've driven; in some ways, it even rivaled a $160,000 Bentley Continental GT coupe that we had in the driveway the same weekend."
"The RL exhibited copious muscle, especially during low-speed and mid-range acceleration. The paddle shifters are really fun to use for up- and downshifts once you get the hang of them."
"Given the car's under-4,000-pound curb weight, the output of the 3.5-liter V-6 is more than adequate to give the RL the feeling of having a V-8 under the hood. In fact, the 4.6-liter V-8 in the Cadillac makes only 20 more horsepower, while the 3.2-liter V-6 in the Mercedes is rated at an anemic 221 horsepower."
"The so-called SH-AWD system gives the RL an overwhelming sense of stability and security that is lacking in many of its high-performance competitors."
"Considering its size and mass, the car is surprisingly nimble, although ride comfort is not quite on par with the Mercedes."
"The RL isn't just a fine performer; it has some serious good looks, too, in an understated way. It has a curvaceous front end, chrome spears along the sides which add definition and a slimming effect, and striking, oversized taillights."
"The cabin is elegant and sophisticated, trimmed with perforated leather on the seats and door panels. The rear seat is roomy and comfortable, with such amenities as pull-up window shades, a power rear sunshade, vents and reading lights."
They weren't big fans of the joystick controller, comparing it to the infamous iDrive.
At any rate, it seems like these experts are quite impressed by several aspects of the RL that have been harshly criticized in this forum. Since one such aspect is the RL's value, it's of particular interest to note that they consider it to be a worthy competitor to the A6 and E320, and that it's a value compared to those cars.
A very effective argumenting yours yet one that does not bind me to reach conclusions similar to yours. I guess factors to be considered are the reality of market offerings (note the posting offered by the Detroit news follwoing your own in the forum). Summing up my impressions I believe the Honda/Acura folks did the right thing. A) Price was increased in reasonable terms from the previous model Quality/performance has skyrocketed instead C) the price/perfromance ratio has definitely improved.
The styling compromises are somewhat highly debatable and personal taste is obviously out of question when an automaker works on sheet metals but I think they got smack on a 'general consensus' of classy styling that does not turn heads but will look good for eternity.
Now I am on your side in terms of braking and rear seat space/trunk volume.
On both of this items I would suggest reading back interesting postings that may be quite revealing.
In short, If braking is so so I would like to have a tech evaluation of how much of that is contributed by the poor tyre selection (this is a sore with the latest offerings from Honda, it looks like they are obsessed with maximizing their EPA ratings and sacrifice plenty of goodness to that end!).
The rear seat argument has been linked instead to the 'call' for the acura brand to be a performance oriented offering. I guess if you buy in this phylosophy you can see how pririties shift away from offering a comfy couch in the back. My take is I would prefer still to have as much comfort as possible but I recognized that size expansion and vehicle weight are counter to optimum performance goals.
For the trunk issue our forum 'illuminati' have reported how volumes are measured by 2 main standards and how little information that info can have. In addition several owners have reported that they can fit all their travel gear without issues and I guess that is enough for a vehicle in the RL category.
Finally about concerns of the RL not being 'enough' of a top of the line luxo-cruiser I debated months ago that I would not be surprised to see a new offering above the RL (and with V8) in the next 2-3 years. This is mostly based on current development of racing cars where Honda gathered numerous trophies in 2004. Its committment to F-1 racing in particular is contingent upon developing a V8 starting this up-coming season!
Happy Thanksgiving Holiday to everybody, and good Holiday Season shopping!
Soft brakes, rear seats and trunk space are nagatives in the RL, and the potential cross-shopping with the TL and even the Accord to justify the respective premiums over these sedans. Among various posts here, the RL's USP is interpreted differently by those who has purchased it, as compared to those who have tested / read about it. If it is luxury, then the RL falls short in a big way - Acura had an opportunity to create a vehicle to potentially go against the LS 430, the Audi A8 (AWD) and certainly this RL is not in the same league. Which brings it down to the mainstream segment dominated by the E 320 and the the 5 series BMWs. Here, an ideal blend of comfort, luxury and performance are important, and most importantly, a marquee badge. The RL may score over its rivals in perhaps 2 out of 4 categories. A $ 5 K price advantage may be less-important for buyers in this segment.
So what is the RL's USP: If it is performance and driver oriented needs then even a 3 series BMW (and certainly the as-yet released new 3 series) would be a better value. A 2006 3 series with 250+ hp, AWD and weighing about 600 lbs. less and costing $ 10 K less would be more appealing than this RL. This BMW's rear-seat room and cargo room would be about as bad as the current RL's, so it leads to the question of where the RL really stands out. Potential buyers who desire AWD in an Acura may see the MDX as a better value, albeit it is a SUV.
I believe the RL may sell at or close to MSRP, but once production increases to normal levels, and with the new 3 series on the horizon, expect inventories to build up and prices to drop down. Emphasizing performance alone potentially has some downsides, as Infiniti and Jaguar have realized in the past.
RUMBLE SEAT DAN NEIL A sound investment The Acura RL is up to its ears in high-tech refinement -- and you haven't heard the half of it.
By Dan Neil, Times Staff Writer
I was an audiophile in college. Incorrigible, really. I shouldn't have been allowed within 100 yards of an audio.
My stereo system comprised a 400-watt McIntosh amp and preamp, four Klipsch speakers, an anvil-heavy Thorens turntable and a Tascam reel-to-reel four-track recording deck. I remember standing outside my burning apartment in worse-for-wear BVDs and hearing — as if they were Clarice's bleating sheep — these components shriek and sizzle and puddle together with some 500 albums and tapes.
So much for that hobby.
After the fire, I bought some consumer-quality stereo equipment and settled down to a life of aural mediocrity, never again to savor fully the depth and nuance of my Black Oak Arkansas records.
But in the last decade or so I have monitored, with what I like to think is a fairly accomplished ear, the changes in car audio, not all of which have been positive. The self-deafening fetish of kilowatt amplifiers and seismic subwoofers loud enough to cause cattle to spontaneously abort well, that's not so great. When enough kids lose their hearing or develop tinnitus, the aftermarket manufacturers of these systems are going to get slapped with the mother of all class-action lawsuits.
Other technologies are just gimmicks. Programmable DSP (Digital Sound Processing) essentially increases reverb levels to mimic the spatial acoustics of different rooms, for instance, "club," "concert hall" or "stadium." That's just what I want: Mozart at the Meadowlands.
In the Acura RL, however, I think I've found the perfect car audio system. It's transportation for the soul.
Like its sibling the TL, the RL is equipped with a Bose DVD-Audio sound system. DVD-Audio is a recording format that contains some 500 times the amount of information of a standard audio CD. These DVD-A CDs — remastered from original recordings — create a superb spatial illusion by putting individual instruments and voices across eight surround-sound channels, so convincingly that you will find yourself checking the back seat to see if Milli and Vanilli have their seat belts on.
Even with ordinary CDs the system's processors helpfully divvy up the two stereo channels into a fairly convincing surround-sound experience, using what Bose calls its Centerpoint processing. The lowest frequencies are parsed from the other channels and pumped through the woofers.
So it's super hi-fi surround sound with exceptional audio imaging — Lionel Hampton sounds like he's playing vibes on your ribs, Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan warbles at the edge of the afterlife. Amazing.
A car, however, is not a living room. It's a cramped space full of hard, reflective surfaces and soft, absorbent materials, so each car's cabin has its unique acoustic features. Meanwhile, cars are noisy. Mechanical sounds from the powertrain, road noise and wind noise all compete with an audio system.
Most of the automakers that use Bose systems, including Acura, make use of the company's Audiopilot noise compensation system, which monitors cabin noise — say, the whistle of a partially opened moon roof or the churring white noise from rough pavement — and boosts amplitude in certain frequencies to compensate. Audiopilot can be found in everything from Corvettes to Maseratis to Maybachs.
Unique to Acura is its Active Noise Cancellation (ANC) system. In principle, it works just like Bose's noise-canceling headsets (which makes me wonder why Bose doesn't market a system like it). ANC monitors low-frequency cabin noise (around 100 hertz or lower) and then reproduces the signal 180 degrees out of phase, which has the effect of muting the booming low-frequency sound in the cabin. Call it the sounds of silence.
ANC operates whether or not the audio system is turned on. As soon as you turn the ignition switch, the cabin fills with a cottony, comfortably numb quiet above which the richer and more pleasant sounds of the car and stereo can be heard.
The rundown of the RL's audio system goes like this: a 10-speaker, 260-watt surround-sound audio system, with six-disc in-dash changer, compatible with DVD-Audio/CD/MP3/WMA formats (Don't know what they are? Ask your kids), as well as XM satellite radio with a free one-year subscription.
The RL is a veritable landslide of in-car technology — including a surprisingly lucid voice-recognition system parlaying with the audio, climate, Bluetooth phone and navigation systems (560 voice commands, such as "Find nearest Vietnamese restaurant" and later, if you fall ill: "Find nearest hospital"). It even recognizes spoken addresses, so you can say the address — "Two-Oh-Two West First Street" — and the system will find it for you without your spinning and punching in letters as if you were working a Dymo tape machine. The nav system also includes a Zagat restaurant guide — it will dial selected restaurants for you — and split-screen 3-D route guidance.
Brace yourself, Angelenos: The RL offers real-time traffic information. Using data culled from Caltrans and other sources and put up on the XM satellite, the RL's nav system displays traffic slowdowns, road construction and SigAlerts. The system will even route you around these arterial blockages if you ask it.
Of course, if it means another 30 minutes in the virtual presence of Alison Krauss or Elliott Smith, maybe you are not in that big a hurry.
At some point this car gets to be so accommodating it's funny. The keyless access system, for example, uses a transmitter key that you keep in your pocket. When you approach, the car recognizes the key and will unlock itself. When you leave, you need only wave your hand over the outside handle to lock it.
Retractable rear headrests? Check. Power rear sunscreen? Check. Retractable rear window sunscreens? Road-following headlamps? All right, already.
Oh, yes, it goes like a bat out of heck, too (no FCC fines for me). Powered by a purling 3.5- liter V6 putting out a thoroughly overachieving 300 horsepower (and getting 18/26 EPA mileage to boot), the five-speed RL also features Honda/Acura's new "Super Handling" all-wheel drive system (feel free to laugh at the name). What's so super? Simply put, the electronically controlled rear transaxle accelerates the outside wheel in a corner — according to traction, load and yaw rate compared with steering angle — thereby helping the car turn.
Several posts note that the brakes are not up to the standards of several competitors. I think this comes from a statistical comparisons in several articles, which is certainly a valid reference point for comparison analysis. Have any 05 RL owners subjectively experienced any apparent brake deficiency or inadequacy? I certainly have not and have found the brake feel and stopping distance to be on a par with my personal favorite braking system, that of my recently traded-in 03 BMW 530. I have found the brakes on the RL to be very responsive and not "soft" at all. Not a scientific test and just my subjective feeling based on my recent experience with the 530. I cannot say that for my 04 MDX as one has to really apply a lot of foot pressure to bring it to a stop, unlike my wife's Volvo XC90 which has more responsive brakes than the MDX. In any event, I am very satisfied with the 05 RL braking system, so far.
Gogglespisano, thanks for your insightful and well-reasoned reply. As indicated, I agree with certain of your assessments, particularly with respect to brake performance and rear seat roominess, and believe the RL can do better.
Has anyone compared RL's audio system to TL's? I know both use the same technology (DVD-A), but the RL's seems to have a better name cache over TL's -- i.e. Bose vs. Panasonic?
P.S. Bose is not necessarily always better, as the "premium" Bose system in my 03 Max is pretty mediocre, and that is already a compliment :-)
Has anyone else read the latest review of the 2005RL in Car and Driver? Interesting to say the least. I knew the car was slow BUT 0-60 in 7.?! I'll leave it at that. Pick up a copy and enjoy! Babs
Someone touched on this earlier and I also am interested...does the RL's stereo have an easy rca input jack so people can hook up their mp3 players like the iriver devices, ipod, etc? Without a tape player you can' use the tape adapter wiht these devices so I am curious if there is a way to use them in the RL.
Babs,
Interesting since there is a RL review on car and driver's site and it says 0-60 in 6.7 seconds which IMO, should be quick enough for everyone short of people taking the car to actual drag strips.
Are you still considering the RL? Have you checked the exchange rates today? Canadians are now paying $13,000CDN more for the same car as our Americans friends. It will be interesting to see the Canadian sales numbers for RL for NOvember(first sales month). Have a great day; Babs
I realize that we are sort of getting the short end of the stick with respect to pricing but for all those years when our dollar was not doing well we got our cars for a bargain compared to our southern neighbours.. I am not trying to justify the price they set the car at here but hey, what goes around comes around I guess.
The thing is, it isn't just an RL/Acura issue. A loaded GS300 costs 10-11 grand more here ($67,000 CDN) compared to in the U.S. after exchange ($56,000 CDN after exchange) so really, as upset as I was with Acura in early OCT when I heard the MSRP, I see that basically every other car brand is the same because of the exchange rate these days. Well, at least luxury brands are the same. Heck, a fully loaded LS430 is 20 grand "overpriced" here.:)
You've probably reached your threshold of diminishing returns. The increase in equipment, quality, and refinement is not a linear progression. Each person has to decide if the subtle increase in refinement is worth the exponential (perhaps not literally) increase in price. I cannot see a Maybach being 6 times more car than the RL. It will not be 6 times more powerful or 6 times quieter. Some people who drive loaded V6 Accords may not notice any improvement to the RL, especially to justify doubling the price.
The RL may not be the best in it's category (according to me), as I find others more compelling, but that does not mean it does not competitively compete with others.
A similar analogy may be wine. I find $5 bottles to be insulting, whereas anything over $50 I do not perceive anything that justifies the price. I can find very nice bottles from $30-40; perhaps my pallet is not as refined as others, but it suits me well.
I particularly enjoy Italian wines, but often enjoy others from France, Australia, Chile. Exposing my automotive bigotry, my wife recently pointed out that she likes a lux SUV that comes form Japan. I told her that if I were to spend over 50K it better come from Germany.
The great thing about comparing automobiles is that no two are identical. There are so many variables, from actual to perceived, that if you look hard, and especially honestly, enough you can find the perfect one for yourself.
Anybody thinking about value and returns, shouldn't be thinking beyond mainstream and near/entry luxury offerings anyway. I simply don't see a point why they would show interest in $50K cars.
You are partially right. No car gives a good return and none is a good investment, including mainstream and near luxury cars. As you may have seen, there is a tv commercial featuring a Corolla or Civic, and behind its exhaust pipe is money flying (or burning), but at a rate comparatively less than other cars.
Put it another way, unless you need a car to get around (or go to work etc) and want to reach your destination in a reasonable time, taking a bus or other public transportation is a better deal and represents a more economical use of your money. Of course, for those of us who are atlethic and health conscious, riding a bike or jogging is even better :-)
All jokes aside, if you can afford a $50k car and don't mind spending it, why not splurge a little and make yourself happy and make others jealous in the meantime. Hehe, :-o
If you go to the acura website and build your car, you can add the accessories you want. They will show a small picture of the accessories. The mud flaps are the same color as the car and look great. I got the rear spoiler on mine and love it. It looks more like an extension of the RL, than an actual spoiler.
Stopped by the local Acura dealership to see the car and also went for a ride in it but I was not the one driving. Nice car.
The thing I was the most amazed about was how small the center stack is. In the pics it looks like it is big but it is tiny. It's barely wider than the width of a CD. I would not say I think this is bad...just surprising to me.
Since I am in Canada I got to check out the climate controlled seats that we apparently are paying a premium for.:) They work pretty good. Not as good as the seats in my parents' loaded LS430 but that is to be expected.
I do not like how you have to use the joystick thing to change fan speed and other simple functions. That bugs me but if I get the car I would obviously get used to it.
The interior is nice. Good quality feel and materials. Up to Lexus standards? I would say no but it is VERY close.
The ride seemed a bit harsher than I was expecting (I was thinking it'd be more forgiving like the LS430)but that is OK as I currently drive an IS300 so it isn't like I'm not used to feeling the occasional bump here and there.
The front of the car is funky from the front seats since it is sloped so low. That'd take a little bit getting used to for me. The IS front is low but the RL's seems lower.
Found the passenger seat to be ok (I sat in it for the drive and I am 6 feet) despite its lack of height adjustment. The principality of it not having height adjustment bugs me but the actual position of it was fine. Oh and the seats themselves were very nice. I liked the side support.
All in all, a nice car and I may get one. Depends on the amount I can get for my IS300 and also the time it would take to get the RL in the colour I want. The dealer said 10-12 weeks and if that is the case and other dealerships close by are the same, forget it because the whole point in me looking at the car now is to have the AWD for this winter. If I have to wait until next year I'd rather just wait and see what other new models come out.
My complaint would be about car dealerships. I am fed up with them and car sales people. They just don't seem to care and that bugs me. I guess maybe it is just me and I expect people to show more interest in people looking at a $70 grand car. The funny thing is the salesman who we dealt with has been named best sales person of the year from the local dealers association for 5 of the last 7 years, including last year. I chuckled at that because I knew more about the car than he did and again, he just didn't seem as enthused I would expect someone to be who stands to make a good chunk of money from it.
Guess that is the world we live in. I will say that at least based on this dealership, Lexus by far is a better experience since they care there.
Will check out other acura dealerships that aren't too far away and see if they actually want my business.
Can you use the voice feature to adjust the fan speed and also the air direction control? If so, that is cool and makes me not dislike the joystick being there as much.
Do any fellow Canucks know if the RL here has auto on/off lights? I didn't check because I didn't think of it while at the dealership. I am looking at a picture in the brochure I got and in one shot I can sort of make out the word "auto" but it is so blurry it is hard to tell.
If it doesn't then this car is off my list regardless of everything else it has. I have a problem paying 70 grand for a car that doesn't have a simple feature I can find on 25k domestic models.
American RL owners...is the word AUTO in between the parking lights symbol and the actual headlight on symbol? If so then the CDN version apparetly has auto on/off lights. If not then it doesn't have auto lights.
I find very little of value in this forum thus far. Some of you "Critics" make me laugh with your pomposity. From the icons attached to your posts, most of you are Canadians. Wasa matta you guys? Too far north of everything I guess (smile). As an owner of one the finest automobiles on the market today - yes the 05 RL - I find my purchase to be of high value, highest quality and fast enough, 0-60 in 6.7 sec. ain't slow. My car feels as though it is considerably faster (like 5.9 to 6.0 sec)
Cool. Thanks for the info.:) Good to know they didn't jerk us Canucks around by taking out such a common feature.
I think I'm going to be getting the dark blue with ebony interior since that is the only one available.:) I'd rather have the parchment interior but it isn't like there is a choice
I'm ready to purchase my RL, but wanted to see if any current 05 RL owners have upgraded their wheel/tire package? Though the stock wheels look OK, I think Acura should have put 18" instead of the 17" wheels. It doesn't make much of a statement and looks too small for the dimensions of the car. I would prefer a 18" or even 19" wheel with a more aggressive looking tire (255/40/19 Goodyear Eagle or Bridgestone Potenza). I think it would fill out the wheel well and give the car a more distinctive look. I don't care for the Acura 18" upgrade wheel. If anyone's made the change, let me know what size you went with, type of wheel/tire package and how wide a tire the car can take without extending past the wheel well.
Took it for a test drive. That thing has a pretty ncie drive to it. It feels like a mix between the LS430 and the IS300.
I can see where some complained about the power...it is there but it comes on very smooth so it feels like the car isn't as quick as it is. At least that is the opinion I got from my test drive.
My sales rep advised against the 18" wheels and tires...claiming a rougher ride. Patrick...Have you considered the 20inch wheels that were featured on the Proto-Type at the New York Auto Show?
I find it interesting that my 1995 Nissan Maxima SE (5-speed) with 190 hp and 205 ft-lbs of torque was tested at 0-60 in 6.6-6.7 seconds when it first came out a decade ago.
My 2004 TL 6-speed, with an 80 horsepower (40%+) and 33 ft-lb (15%+) advantage has been tested at 5.9 to 6.6 seconds depending upon the source. The RL, with 300 horsepower, appears to be in the 6.7 second range, essentially the same as the 10 year old Maxima.
The inflation in horsepower ratings does not appear to have produced significant gains in performance, at least not at legal speeds for FWD based vehices. I am sure that both the TL and RL would achieve a higher top speed than the Maxima and be a bit more stable getting to it. But that's not something I - or most of us - will be personally testing.
Just thought I'd add this observation as I decide whether or not to sell my old Maxima or move it to our second home. It's nice to know that just because it's 10 years old and made it past 150k miles, it's not as obsolete in performance as its horsepower numbers would suggest.
Touting a 300 HP motor is great for Acura marketing. Most consumers love HP ratings and don't pay attention to torque figures. However, high torque is the major contributor to strong acceleration. I seem to remember a saying used by one of the of big three manufacturers during the muscle car days of the 1960s. "HP gets them in the showroom- torque sells the car". I guess it has come full circle once again.
There have been several questions regarding the backup sensors. I had them installed two weeks ago and, so far, have been very disappointed. The sound is so quiet I can barely hear it. Also, the beeping becomes a solid sound at the one foot mark, not very useful when parallel parking. As soon as I get a chance, I'm going to call my dealer to see if either setting can be adjusted. If not, I wouldn't recommend spending the money on it.
I totally agree. One of the reasons the 300 HP RL isn't as quick 0-60 as smaller engines, such as the 255 HP A6 3.2, is that the torque on the RL is at the high end, whereas the A6 has a relatively level torque curve (max at 3000 rpm vs. 5000 rpm for the RL). Of course, the A6 seems slower because it shifts into 2d at low speed (3-4 mph) to keep a smooth ride, but you can defeat that with sport mode or manual shifts.
I've gone to two wheel/tire stores and they claim the 18" is the largest tire the RL can handle. Seems to be an issue with wheel well rubbing and the wheel sticking out too far. Would love to find out what 20" wheels were on the prototype.
Hi...Just picked up our new RL yesterday. If one adapts well to new technology this car has so much to offer it is incredible. My wife had to drag me into the house last night or I may have slept in the thing :-)
NebraskaGuy's comments on backup sensors reminded me of earlier comments about the outside mirrors dropping down automatically to give you better vision when you need it while backing up. Someone said it only works on the driver's side mirror and was complaining. Someone else said it has to be that way ...and cited a long dissertation why! Actually it works on either side or not at all and you control it by sliding the adjustment lever left or right. If you leave it in the middle position the mirrors stay as is.
I have saved a great photo of that Prototype car and will either attach it this forum site later or dig out the url and send that! The Prototype was dramatic but a real tire expert might be able to say whether those 20" wheels/tires were functional or just for Show!
I guess I would have to agree, now that I researched the weight of the RL and found that it's only a bowling ball less than 4,000 lbs. Although that difference of about 33% heavier than a 1995 Maxima should be more than offset by a 55% increase in horsepower; the torque is only about 25% higher than the Maxima.
I had thought the RL weighed in at about 3,700 lbs. Which is still very heavy for a 3.5 liter 6 cylinder. But now that I found it weighs 3,984 lbs, I feel like John McEnroe asking Acura's engineers "Are you serious?".
There is no excuse for that bloated weight. That's a full 500+ lbs heavier than a 530i and nearly 200 lbs heavier than a V8 545i. Hell, it's essentially the same weight as the previous BMW M5. And BMW is known for building heavy cars, but making up for it with world class suspensions, brakes and steering.
This extra weight doesn't take anything away from the RL's attractiveness as a nice mid-level luxury car. But it certainly takes away from any sporting pretense that "super handling" AWD suggests. I think Acura's engineers might have gotten a little carried away with technology for technology's sake. I did NOT find the RL handled better than my TL 6-speed. And no one in the universe would claim the RL handles better than a similar weight M5. Except perhaps in the snow, in which case a Honda Pilot would fare better than both.
P.S. I'm not just picking on the RL. I even think the TL could shed about 200 lbs with better use of aluminum and composite materials. Thank goodness the Honda engineers assigned to the S2000 didn't muck that car up with SH-AWD and an extra 300+ lbs (assuming that's the culprit).
The manual states exactly what you are saying about the side mirrors and backing up. The problem is that many (myself included) saw both (yes both!) tilting at the same time (not just one side or the other).
After I fooled around with the mirrors, both side view mirrors would then no longer work at the same time. The mystery is how and why both mirrors tilted together originally.
As for a poster going on about the weight...so? Look at other cars in its class. The Audi A6 weighs the same. The STS weighs the same. The AWD E320 probably weighs about the same. I just dont get why some people here criticize the car for areas where it is either the same as the competition or slightly better. An example is power/acceleration. The car is quicker than competitors' V6 models yet what do you read here by some? Complaining about how the car isn't quick.
I just don't understand. Was acura supposed to have designed a super sedan that has every imaginable feature, handles like a Lotus Elise, has a 400 HP V8 engine and betters every sedan out there all for only 50 grand?
The inflation in horsepower ratings does not appear to have produced significant gains in performance
C&D has tested Acura TL at 5.8s with manual transmission (of course, and I would expect a similar number for RL had Acura equipped it with one). That’s pretty good for a 3500 lb. sedan and considerably faster than a 190 HP 3100 lb. car with manual transmission doing the run in 6.8s (the old Maxima).
Remember to add almost 1 second to Maxima's run to 60 mph if you consider automatic transmission. BTW, C&D tested 1998 Maxima SE with automatic transmission doing 0-60 in 8.2s. MT got 8.1s out of 2000 Maxima GXE.
Acura RL and TL have similar power/weight ratio (more important measure of performance potential than quoting pure horsepower, however comparison between manual versus auto transmission is just as critical). This should result in similar straight line performance from both, and based on the number C&D got from RL, I would say it is.
Now, for 2003 TL Type-S, C&D recorded a slow 7.6s run (this was in a comparison test where every car was a lot slower than usual) while the TL-S was capable of doing sub 7 second runs with its automatic transmission.
Touting HP or cylinder count is part of everybody’s marketing, in fact. However, understanding the need versus want is another matter.
After all is said and done, power/weight ratio is key determinant of performance (as is selection of auto versus manual transmission). Acura claims RL to do 0-60 in 6.5s, and C&D got 6.7s. In the same issue, C&D road tested A6/V8 and got 6.3s (against Audi’s claim of 6.0s). So, cars are performing within their ballpark. BTW, Audi A8/4.2 has a curb weight of about 4300 lb (about 300 lb more than RL).
Torque is only as good as the horsepower it can deliver.
Audi A6/3.2 couldn’t run with Acura RL simply because it lacks torque and horsepower and weighs as much! Sure, RL’s engine produces peak torque at a higher rpm, but the fact is, it produces more torque than the A6’s at just about any engine speed. I expect Audi A6 to run 0-60 in 7.2s (Audi claims 7.1s).
In case of Acura, from what I have gathered, the full auto mode is designed for smoother (slow shifts), so to get better performance, paddle-shifters would come in handy (which are supposedly designed with quicker shifts).
Patrick, Here is the url and some copy on the 20" alloy wheels with 255/35R20 Michelin high performance tires on that prototype RL at the New York Auto show.
"The RL Prototype's lightweight chassis and 4-wheel independent suspension components are tuned to complement the SH-AWD system and deliver a linear cornering feel, optimum cornering traction and a smooth ride. The 20-inch alloy wheels are shod with 255/35R20 Michelin high performance tires that fill the wheel wells and add to the RL Prototype's aggressive stance. Large brakes with 4-piston brake calipers and slotted rotors provide optimum stopping power."
Actually, when I shifted the A6 3.2 myself, it performed about the same as the RL. It was only in standard drive that the 3.2 truly lagged. The A6 4.2 blew the RL out of the water (as one would expect given the V8 engine).
In both cases, the RL was a bit quicker off the line and much smoother. I guess what I've concluded after all this process is that I'm not quite ready for the more luxurious ride of the Acura...maybe I'm still too young to truly appreciate not being thrown back in your seat and feeling every bump in the road! That, and a bunch of little annoyances in the RL that just sort of mounted (no fold-down rear seat, no height adjustment on the passenger seat, no wood on center console, less adjustable lumbar support, only a two setting seat heater, no RDS on the stereo).
Comments
Based on the picture shown in an earlier posting, I much prefer the grill that is on the RL over the one on the Legend.
If you have only seen pictures of this car, you really need to go see one in person. Looks GREAT!!!
Thanks.
However, I also believe that in my opinion there would be a few things to consider when comparing $25,000 cars like the Accord to $33,000 cars like the TL to $48,000 cars like the RL:
1. In my view, each increment in price should yield a clear improvement in luxury and performance. In the case of the TL vs. the Accord, this is clearly true (both in luxury and performance).
Some Korean makers may in fact improve enough in reliability and luxury and performance to be considered vs. the Acuras. I don't think it has happened yet but if it does consistently, then that make will begin to earn the prestige and also represent good value vs. the Accord and perhaps even vs. the TL over time. I do not reject your inference that prestige is worth something -- I would pay some premium to drive an Acura vs. an equivalent Honda. However, as I have stated, I think the TL tops the Accord by a significant margin on features and is worth the premium.
2. The RL is a very nice car and is certainly worth some premium to the TL. However, I am less concerned about paying $15,000 more for the car and more concerned about the fact that it is supposed to be the top of the line Acura. Yet, to me it represents a disappointing set of compromises when compared with what it could and should be. These compromises are revealed by the fact that it does not compare especially well with the TL on several metrics.
Said another way, some may argue that the RL is worth say a $10,000 premium to the TL. I am not really hung up on figuring out what the right premium is to the TL or other cars. Rather, I expected (hoped) the new RL would be clearly superior in performance and luxury and I would gladly pay a $15,000 or greater premium for such a top of the line Acura. And the crazy thing is, Acura could have easily done it. The handling is vastly improved, the interior appointments are nice and the electronic/tech features are very solid. But braking is subpar (you know this is an issue for me), acceleration is average and I think the back seat and trunk space are marginal and styling of tail end does not do it for me.
I have no problem paying a premium but I just think the car should deliver noticeably more than peers and other lower priced models from that same maker (especially because you are getting the same reliability, fit/finish, and to certain degree prestige if you buy say another model of Acura).
"The RL looks like a real value, especially when you compare it to the $63,510 base sticker price on the 2005 Cadillac STS all-wheel drive model and such premium European competitors as the slightly more expensive 2005 Audi A6 and 2005 Mercedes-Benz E320 4Matic."
"The latest incarnation of Acura's flagship sedan is one of the most impressive cars we've driven; in some ways, it even rivaled a $160,000 Bentley Continental GT coupe that we had in the driveway the same weekend."
"The RL exhibited copious muscle, especially during low-speed and mid-range acceleration. The paddle shifters are really fun to use for up- and downshifts once you get the hang of them."
"Given the car's under-4,000-pound curb weight, the output of the 3.5-liter V-6 is more than adequate to give the RL the feeling of having a V-8 under the hood. In fact, the 4.6-liter V-8 in the Cadillac makes only 20 more horsepower, while the 3.2-liter V-6 in the Mercedes is rated at an anemic 221 horsepower."
"The so-called SH-AWD system gives the RL an overwhelming sense of stability and security that is lacking in many of its high-performance competitors."
"Considering its size and mass, the car is surprisingly nimble, although ride comfort is not quite on par with the Mercedes."
"The RL isn't just a fine performer; it has some serious good looks, too, in an understated way. It has a curvaceous front end, chrome spears along the sides which add definition and a slimming effect, and striking, oversized taillights."
"The cabin is elegant and sophisticated, trimmed with perforated leather on the seats and door panels. The rear seat is roomy and comfortable, with such amenities as pull-up window shades, a power rear sunshade, vents and reading lights."
They weren't big fans of the joystick controller, comparing it to the infamous iDrive.
At any rate, it seems like these experts are quite impressed by several aspects of the RL that have been harshly criticized in this forum. Since one such aspect is the RL's value, it's of particular interest to note that they consider it to be a worthy competitor to the A6 and E320, and that it's a value compared to those cars.
Just some more opinions...
http://info.detnews.com/autosconsumer/autoreviews/index.cfm?id=16- - - - - - 779
I guess factors to be considered are the reality of market offerings (note the posting offered by the Detroit news follwoing your own in the forum).
Summing up my impressions I believe the Honda/Acura folks did the right thing.
A) Price was increased in reasonable terms from the previous model
C) the price/perfromance ratio has definitely improved.
The styling compromises are somewhat highly debatable and personal taste is obviously out of question when an automaker works on sheet metals but I think they got smack on a 'general consensus' of classy styling that does not turn heads but will look good for eternity.
Now I am on your side in terms of braking and rear seat space/trunk volume.
On both of this items I would suggest reading back interesting postings that may be quite revealing.
In short, If braking is so so I would like to have a tech evaluation of how much of that is contributed by the poor tyre selection (this is a sore with the latest offerings from Honda, it looks like they are obsessed with maximizing their EPA ratings and sacrifice plenty of goodness to that end!).
The rear seat argument has been linked instead to the 'call' for the acura brand to be a performance oriented offering. I guess if you buy in this phylosophy you can see how pririties shift away from offering a comfy couch in the back. My take is I would prefer still to have as much comfort as possible but I recognized that size expansion and vehicle weight are counter to optimum performance goals.
For the trunk issue our forum 'illuminati' have reported how volumes are measured by 2 main standards and how little information that info can have. In addition several owners have reported that they can fit all their travel gear without issues and I guess that is enough for a vehicle in the RL category.
Finally about concerns of the RL not being 'enough' of a top of the line luxo-cruiser I debated months ago that I would not be surprised to see a new offering above the RL (and with V8) in the next 2-3 years. This is mostly based on current development of racing cars where Honda gathered numerous trophies in 2004. Its committment to F-1 racing in particular is contingent upon developing a V8 starting this up-coming season!
Happy Thanksgiving Holiday to everybody, and good Holiday Season shopping!
So what is the RL's USP: If it is performance and driver oriented needs then even a 3 series BMW (and certainly the as-yet released new 3 series) would be a better value. A 2006 3 series with 250+ hp, AWD and weighing about 600 lbs. less and costing $ 10 K less would be more appealing than this RL. This BMW's rear-seat room and cargo room would be about as bad as the current RL's, so it leads to the question of where the RL really stands out. Potential buyers who desire AWD in an Acura may see the MDX as a better value, albeit it is a SUV.
I believe the RL may sell at or close to MSRP, but once production increases to normal levels, and with the new 3 series on the horizon, expect inventories to build up and prices to drop down. Emphasizing performance alone potentially has some downsides, as Infiniti and Jaguar have realized in the past.
http://www.latimes.com/classified/automotive/highway1/la-hy-neil2- - 4nov24,0,5636433.story?coll=la-class-autos-highway1
RUMBLE SEAT DAN NEIL
A sound investment
The Acura RL is up to its ears in high-tech refinement -- and you haven't heard the half of it.
By Dan Neil, Times Staff Writer
I was an audiophile in college. Incorrigible, really. I shouldn't have been allowed within 100 yards of an audio.
My stereo system comprised a 400-watt McIntosh amp and preamp, four Klipsch speakers, an anvil-heavy Thorens turntable and a Tascam reel-to-reel four-track recording deck. I remember standing outside my burning apartment in worse-for-wear BVDs and hearing — as if they were Clarice's bleating sheep — these components shriek and sizzle and puddle together with some 500 albums and tapes.
So much for that hobby.
After the fire, I bought some consumer-quality stereo equipment and settled down to a life of aural mediocrity, never again to savor fully the depth and nuance of my Black Oak Arkansas records.
But in the last decade or so I have monitored, with what I like to think is a fairly accomplished ear, the changes in car audio, not all of which have been positive. The self-deafening fetish of kilowatt amplifiers and seismic subwoofers loud enough to cause cattle to spontaneously abort well, that's not so great. When enough kids lose their hearing or develop tinnitus, the aftermarket manufacturers of these systems are going to get slapped with the mother of all class-action lawsuits.
Other technologies are just gimmicks. Programmable DSP (Digital Sound Processing) essentially increases reverb levels to mimic the spatial acoustics of different rooms, for instance, "club," "concert hall" or "stadium." That's just what I want: Mozart at the Meadowlands.
In the Acura RL, however, I think I've found the perfect car audio system. It's transportation for the soul.
Like its sibling the TL, the RL is equipped with a Bose DVD-Audio sound system. DVD-Audio is a recording format that contains some 500 times the amount of information of a standard audio CD. These DVD-A CDs — remastered from original recordings — create a superb spatial illusion by putting individual instruments and voices across eight surround-sound channels, so convincingly that you will find yourself checking the back seat to see if Milli and Vanilli have their seat belts on.
Even with ordinary CDs the system's processors helpfully divvy up the two stereo channels into a fairly convincing surround-sound experience, using what Bose calls its Centerpoint processing. The lowest frequencies are parsed from the other channels and pumped through the woofers.
So it's super hi-fi surround sound with exceptional audio imaging — Lionel Hampton sounds like he's playing vibes on your ribs, Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan warbles at the edge of the afterlife. Amazing.
A car, however, is not a living room. It's a cramped space full of hard, reflective surfaces and soft, absorbent materials, so each car's cabin has its unique acoustic features. Meanwhile, cars are noisy. Mechanical sounds from the powertrain, road noise and wind noise all compete with an audio system.
Most of the automakers that use Bose systems, including Acura, make use of the company's Audiopilot noise compensation system, which monitors cabin noise — say, the whistle of a partially opened moon roof or the churring white noise from rough pavement — and boosts amplitude in certain frequencies to compensate. Audiopilot can be found in everything from Corvettes to Maseratis to Maybachs.
Unique to Acura is its Active Noise Cancellation (ANC) system. In principle, it works just like Bose's noise-canceling headsets (which makes me wonder why Bose doesn't market a system like it). ANC monitors low-frequency cabin noise (around 100 hertz or lower) and then reproduces the signal 180 degrees out of phase, which has the effect of muting the booming low-frequency sound in the cabin. Call it the sounds of silence.
ANC operates whether or not the audio system is turned on. As soon as you turn the ignition switch, the cabin fills with a cottony, comfortably numb quiet above which the richer and more pleasant sounds of the car and stereo can be heard.
The rundown of the RL's audio system goes like this: a 10-speaker, 260-watt surround-sound audio system, with six-disc in-dash changer, compatible with DVD-Audio/CD/MP3/WMA formats (Don't know what they are? Ask your kids), as well as XM satellite radio with a free one-year subscription.
The RL is a veritable landslide of in-car technology — including a surprisingly lucid voice-recognition system parlaying with the audio, climate, Bluetooth phone and navigation systems (560 voice commands, such as "Find nearest Vietnamese restaurant" and later, if you fall ill: "Find nearest hospital"). It even recognizes spoken addresses, so you can say the address — "Two-Oh-Two West First Street" — and the system will find it for you without your spinning and punching in letters as if you were working a Dymo tape machine. The nav system also includes a Zagat restaurant guide — it will dial selected restaurants for you — and split-screen 3-D route guidance.
Brace yourself, Angelenos: The RL offers real-time traffic information. Using data culled from Caltrans and other sources and put up on the XM satellite, the RL's nav system displays traffic slowdowns, road construction and SigAlerts. The system will even route you around these arterial blockages if you ask it.
Of course, if it means another 30 minutes in the virtual presence of Alison Krauss or Elliott Smith, maybe you are not in that big a hurry.
At some point this car gets to be so accommodating it's funny. The keyless access system, for example, uses a transmitter key that you keep in your pocket. When you approach, the car recognizes the key and will unlock itself. When you leave, you need only wave your hand over the outside handle to lock it.
Retractable rear headrests? Check. Power rear sunscreen? Check. Retractable rear window sunscreens? Road-following headlamps? All right, already.
Oh, yes, it goes like a bat out of heck, too (no FCC fines for me). Powered by a purling 3.5- liter V6 putting out a thoroughly overachieving 300 horsepower (and getting 18/26 EPA mileage to boot), the five-speed RL also features Honda/Acura's new "Super Handling" all-wheel drive system (feel free to laugh at the name). What's so super? Simply put, the electronically controlled rear transaxle accelerates the outside wheel in a corner — according to traction, load and yaw rate compared with steering angle — thereby helping the car turn.
You have to drive this ca
Has anyone compared RL's audio system to TL's? I know both use the same technology (DVD-A), but the RL's seems to have a better name cache over TL's -- i.e. Bose vs. Panasonic?
P.S. Bose is not necessarily always better, as the "premium" Bose system in my 03 Max is pretty mediocre, and that is already a compliment :-)
Interesting to say the least. I knew the car was slow BUT 0-60 in 7.?!
I'll leave it at that.
Pick up a copy and enjoy!
Babs
Babs,
Interesting since there is a RL review on car and driver's site and it says 0-60 in 6.7 seconds which IMO, should be quick enough for everyone short of people taking the car to actual drag strips.
It will be interesting to see the Canadian sales numbers for RL for NOvember(first sales month).
Have a great day;
Babs
I realize that we are sort of getting the short end of the stick with respect to pricing but for all those years when our dollar was not doing well we got our cars for a bargain compared to our southern neighbours.. I am not trying to justify the price they set the car at here but hey, what goes around comes around I guess.
The thing is, it isn't just an RL/Acura issue. A loaded GS300 costs 10-11 grand more here ($67,000 CDN) compared to in the U.S. after exchange ($56,000 CDN after exchange) so really, as upset as I was with Acura in early OCT when I heard the MSRP, I see that basically every other car brand is the same because of the exchange rate these days. Well, at least luxury brands are the same.
Heck, a fully loaded LS430 is 20 grand "overpriced" here.:)
How much for BMW 530i or E320?
The RL may not be the best in it's category (according to me), as I find others more compelling, but that does not mean it does not competitively compete with others.
A similar analogy may be wine. I find $5 bottles to be insulting, whereas anything over $50 I do not perceive anything that justifies the price. I can find very nice bottles from $30-40; perhaps my pallet is not as refined as others, but it suits me well.
I particularly enjoy Italian wines, but often enjoy others from France, Australia, Chile. Exposing my automotive bigotry, my wife recently pointed out that she likes a lux SUV that comes form Japan. I told her that if I were to spend over 50K it better come from Germany.
The great thing about comparing automobiles is that no two are identical. There are so many variables, from actual to perceived, that if you look hard, and especially honestly, enough you can find the perfect one for yourself.
Put it another way, unless you need a car to get around (or go to work etc) and want to reach your destination in a reasonable time, taking a bus or other public transportation is a better deal and represents a more economical use of your money. Of course, for those of us who are atlethic and health conscious, riding a bike or jogging is even better :-)
All jokes aside, if you can afford a $50k car and don't mind spending it, why not splurge a little and make yourself happy and make others jealous in the meantime. Hehe, :-o
Lynnminny
The thing I was the most amazed about was how small the center stack is. In the pics it looks like it is big but it is tiny. It's barely wider than the width of a CD. I would not say I think this is bad...just surprising to me.
Since I am in Canada I got to check out the climate controlled seats that we apparently are paying a premium for.:) They work pretty good. Not as good as the seats in my parents' loaded LS430 but that is to be expected.
I do not like how you have to use the joystick thing to change fan speed and other simple functions. That bugs me but if I get the car I would obviously get used to it.
The interior is nice. Good quality feel and materials. Up to Lexus standards? I would say no but it is VERY close.
The ride seemed a bit harsher than I was expecting (I was thinking it'd be more forgiving like the LS430)but that is OK as I currently drive an IS300 so it isn't like I'm not used to feeling the occasional bump here and there.
The front of the car is funky from the front seats since it is sloped so low. That'd take a little bit getting used to for me. The IS front is low but the RL's seems lower.
Found the passenger seat to be ok (I sat in it for the drive and I am 6 feet) despite its lack of height adjustment. The principality of it not having height adjustment bugs me but the actual position of it was fine. Oh and the seats themselves were very nice. I liked the side support.
All in all, a nice car and I may get one. Depends on the amount I can get for my IS300 and also the time it would take to get the RL in the colour I want. The dealer said 10-12 weeks and if that is the case and other dealerships close by are the same, forget it because the whole point in me looking at the car now is to have the AWD for this winter. If I have to wait until next year I'd rather just wait and see what other new models come out.
My complaint would be about car dealerships. I am fed up with them and car sales people. They just don't seem to care and that bugs me. I guess maybe it is just me and I expect people to show more interest in people looking at a $70 grand car. The funny thing is the salesman who we dealt with has been named best sales person of the year from the local dealers association for 5 of the last 7 years, including last year. I chuckled at that because I knew more about the car than he did and again, he just didn't seem as enthused I would expect someone to be who stands to make a good chunk of money from it.
Guess that is the world we live in. I will say that at least based on this dealership, Lexus by far is a better experience since they care there.
Will check out other acura dealerships that aren't too far away and see if they actually want my business.
If it doesn't then this car is off my list regardless of everything else it has. I have a problem paying 70 grand for a car that doesn't have a simple feature I can find on 25k domestic models.
American RL owners...is the word AUTO in between the parking lights symbol and the actual headlight on symbol? If so then the CDN version apparetly has auto on/off lights. If not then it doesn't have auto lights.
Good Bye!
I think I'm going to be getting the dark blue with ebony interior since that is the only one available.:) I'd rather have the parchment interior but it isn't like there is a choice
Took it for a test drive. That thing has a pretty ncie drive to it. It feels like a mix between the LS430 and the IS300.
I can see where some complained about the power...it is there but it comes on very smooth so it feels like the car isn't as quick as it is. At least that is the opinion I got from my test drive.
My 2004 TL 6-speed, with an 80 horsepower (40%+) and 33 ft-lb (15%+) advantage has been tested at 5.9 to 6.6 seconds depending upon the source. The RL, with 300 horsepower, appears to be in the 6.7 second range, essentially the same as the 10 year old Maxima.
The inflation in horsepower ratings does not appear to have produced significant gains in performance, at least not at legal speeds for FWD based vehices. I am sure that both the TL and RL would achieve a higher top speed than the Maxima and be a bit more stable getting to it. But that's not something I - or most of us - will be personally testing.
Just thought I'd add this observation as I decide whether or not to sell my old Maxima or move it to our second home. It's nice to know that just because it's 10 years old and made it past 150k miles, it's not as obsolete in performance as its horsepower numbers would suggest.
NebraskaGuy's comments on backup sensors reminded me of earlier comments about the outside mirrors dropping down automatically to give you better vision when you need it while backing up. Someone said it only works on the driver's side mirror and was complaining. Someone else said it has to be that way ...and cited a long dissertation why! Actually it works on either side or not at all and you control it by sliding the adjustment lever left or right. If you leave it in the middle position the mirrors stay as is.
I had thought the RL weighed in at about 3,700 lbs. Which is still very heavy for a 3.5 liter 6 cylinder. But now that I found it weighs 3,984 lbs, I feel like John McEnroe asking Acura's engineers "Are you serious?".
There is no excuse for that bloated weight. That's a full 500+ lbs heavier than a 530i and nearly 200 lbs heavier than a V8 545i. Hell, it's essentially the same weight as the previous BMW M5. And BMW is known for building heavy cars, but making up for it with world class suspensions, brakes and steering.
This extra weight doesn't take anything away from the RL's attractiveness as a nice mid-level luxury car. But it certainly takes away from any sporting pretense that "super handling" AWD suggests. I think Acura's engineers might have gotten a little carried away with technology for technology's sake. I did NOT find the RL handled better than my TL 6-speed. And no one in the universe would claim the RL handles better than a similar weight M5. Except perhaps in the snow, in which case a Honda Pilot would fare better than both.
P.S. I'm not just picking on the RL. I even think the TL could shed about 200 lbs with better use of aluminum and composite materials. Thank goodness the Honda engineers assigned to the S2000 didn't muck that car up with SH-AWD and an extra 300+ lbs (assuming that's the culprit).
After I fooled around with the mirrors, both side view mirrors would then no longer work at the same time. The mystery is how and why both mirrors tilted together originally.
No real deal. Got tint thrown in. Yippee. hehe
As for a poster going on about the weight...so? Look at other cars in its class. The Audi A6 weighs the same. The STS weighs the same. The AWD E320 probably weighs about the same. I just dont get why some people here criticize the car for areas where it is either the same as the competition or slightly better. An example is power/acceleration. The car is quicker than competitors' V6 models yet what do you read here by some? Complaining about how the car isn't quick.
I just don't understand. Was acura supposed to have designed a super sedan that has every imaginable feature, handles like a Lotus Elise, has a 400 HP V8 engine and betters every sedan out there all for only 50 grand?
C&D has tested Acura TL at 5.8s with manual transmission (of course, and I would expect a similar number for RL had Acura equipped it with one). That’s pretty good for a 3500 lb. sedan and considerably faster than a 190 HP 3100 lb. car with manual transmission doing the run in 6.8s (the old Maxima).
Remember to add almost 1 second to Maxima's run to 60 mph if you consider automatic transmission. BTW, C&D tested 1998 Maxima SE with automatic transmission doing 0-60 in 8.2s. MT got 8.1s out of 2000 Maxima GXE.
Acura RL and TL have similar power/weight ratio (more important measure of performance potential than quoting pure horsepower, however comparison between manual versus auto transmission is just as critical). This should result in similar straight line performance from both, and based on the number C&D got from RL, I would say it is.
Now, for 2003 TL Type-S, C&D recorded a slow 7.6s run (this was in a comparison test where every car was a lot slower than usual) while the TL-S was capable of doing sub 7 second runs with its automatic transmission.
After all is said and done, power/weight ratio is key determinant of performance (as is selection of auto versus manual transmission). Acura claims RL to do 0-60 in 6.5s, and C&D got 6.7s. In the same issue, C&D road tested A6/V8 and got 6.3s (against Audi’s claim of 6.0s). So, cars are performing within their ballpark. BTW, Audi A8/4.2 has a curb weight of about 4300 lb (about 300 lb more than RL).
Torque is only as good as the horsepower it can deliver.
In case of Acura, from what I have gathered, the full auto mode is designed for smoother (slow shifts), so to get better performance, paddle-shifters would come in handy (which are supposedly designed with quicker shifts).
http://www.fast-autos.net/acura/acurarlprototype.html
"The RL Prototype's lightweight chassis and 4-wheel independent suspension components are tuned to complement the SH-AWD system and deliver a linear cornering feel, optimum cornering traction and a smooth ride. The 20-inch alloy wheels are shod with 255/35R20 Michelin high performance tires that fill the wheel wells and add to the RL Prototype's aggressive stance. Large brakes with 4-piston brake calipers and slotted rotors provide optimum stopping power."
In both cases, the RL was a bit quicker off the line and much smoother. I guess what I've concluded after all this process is that I'm not quite ready for the more luxurious ride of the Acura...maybe I'm still too young to truly appreciate not being thrown back in your seat and feeling every bump in the road! That, and a bunch of little annoyances in the RL that just sort of mounted (no fold-down rear seat, no height adjustment on the passenger seat, no wood on center console, less adjustable lumbar support, only a two setting seat heater, no RDS on the stereo).
http://www.fast-autos.net/acura/rlprototype9.html