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Pontiac Bonneville



  • mackacmackac Member Posts: 3
    We have a 2000 SSEi and love the handling, performance and all the comfort features. BUT, if a "quiet ride" is really important to you, GM has gotten off the boat with its year 2000 full size upper end sedans. The road/tire/air noise due to lack of insulation and the uni-body design is really bad at speeds of over 50 mph. It's a steady low "whooshing" sound that gets under your skin after a couple of house.

    We've had the GM rep look at--no response. We've had 2 files with General Motors and they finally agreed it's "a common design matter." Tried driving the Aurora, LeSabre and 2 other Bonnie's. All have the same noise.

    We're leasing this car for 3 years. Hope they fix the noise problems by 2002.

    Other high-end sedan owners who value their quiet GM ride need to speak up so that GM has to listen!

    Good luck
  • snicklesnickle Member Posts: 147
    I took the Bonnie on vacation last week 500 miles each way. The new sway bar was fantastic, no noticeable effect on ride comfort, but handles great. I need to still swap the front endlinks and frame bushings.
  • snicklesnickle Member Posts: 147
    I talked to Flowmaster for a while today. Their recommendation is to swap the stock mufflers with 50 series Deltaflows part # 942451. They do not recommend removing the resonator or changing pipe sizing. They say any of those changes will probably make the car extremely odd sounding and probably loud. I will see what the mufflers cost and go from there.
  • needarideneedaride Member Posts: 7
    I saw in post # 27 that someone mentioned a noise in the steering column. I have a '99 SE that I've had for three months. Got a steal with about 18000 miles. Absolutely love it! But I, too, notice an annoying rattle in the steering column. It seems to go away when the tilt is set at the highest and lowest settings but any setting in between and the thing rattles -- usually at highway speed and if the road is the least bit rough. Anyone else noticed this or pursued a remedy?
  • needarideneedaride Member Posts: 7
    I see a lot of discussion about adding a sway bar and am curious what "exactly" does the sway bar do for the car and the ride. I love the comfort of my SE ride but it is just a tad soft when pushed in corners. I would hate to sacrifice that long ride comfort though. Not looking for a race car ride but there sure seems to be a lot of interest in this add-on.
  • snicklesnickle Member Posts: 147
    Not a sily question at all. The SE has a 17 mil (I think) sway bar on the front and none on the rear, the SLE adds a rear one, the SSEi has a 30 mil on the front and a 17 mil on rear stock.

    Unless you go to extremes, a sway bar does not significantly effect ride comfort. Addco for years has promoted soft springs and stiff sway bars as a good compromise.

    Intense01 and I have both upgrade our stock rear sway bars from 17 mill hollow to 1 inch solid. My wife did not notice a change in ride comfort at all. We just finished a 500 mile each way trip.

    As far the function goes, www.addco.com has a good description, but basically it resists the paired wheels from having different compression of the suspension. If you turn sharply right, the car tends to lean left compressing the left suspension and expanding the right. The sway bar will resist this twist and try to keep the car level.

    This also makes the car understeer a lot less.

    Adding a sway bar to the SE should be easy. All the mount points should be their. You would need a bar, the frame clamps and bushings, as well as the endlinks. Saner could help you out, or maybe 1 or 2 of us have some stock bars to sell :-). I do not have a good feel for what size rear would be good for an SE, but would expect the stock SSEi bar to be about right. You can get frame clamps at the dealer, as well as endlinks and bushings. Bushings and endlinks we probably have, but I would go ahead and get new.

    Hope that rambling helps.
  • tpkentpken Member Posts: 1,108
    Thanks for that info - too bad about the 'wooshing' noise that compromises the ride quality of these big GM cruisers. Hope they figure it out soon. I will look for that when I take a test drive in either car. Quietness is important to me.

    BTW - any noticeable difference in the seating position on the Bonne vs LeSabre? I have heard that the Bonne seats pull your posterior down lower than the LeSabre - sport seating or some such thing. Although I am 6'0 tall, I enjoy setting my seat up as high as I can go for most commanding view. Very happy in that respect with Grand Marquis seating - I wonder about Bonne.

    Turnpike Ken
  • needarideneedaride Member Posts: 7
    Wow, thanks snickle for the explanation. That makes perfect sense and sounds like something I should be looking into. I'll think on that idea of taking a slightly used bar off your hands.
  • intense01intense01 Member Posts: 107
    First come the wheels and tires. Next is a small pulley, then a smaller pulley. Then a sway bar, thermostat, intake, Autotap, etc.

    It just goes on and on, and it's quite addictive.

    See what we started...
  • snicklesnickle Member Posts: 147
    Have you been following the FPR discussion on the grand prix group? I am interested to see how that shakes out.
  • dmckeowndmckeown Member Posts: 107
    Whats FPR , did I miss something ? How was gas mileage on your trip with the P injector ? Have you tried the 3.25 pulley yet ? I'm very happy with my cars performance right now , esp. in the cooler mournings and nights we have been having here the last few weeks . When outside air gets below 45 and it's damp this car is very strong
  • snicklesnickle Member Posts: 147
    Fuel Pressure Riser. One of the current theories is that with the high boost of the smaller pullies, the car tends to run too lean at WOT. That contributes to the KR problem. The fuel pressure riser increase the amout of fuel injected into the cylinder, during the period the injector is open, hence a richer mixture and less KR. From everything I have seen on the boards, it definetly helps, the current thing some GPers are looking at is a 3.1 pressure riser the tracks fuel requirements, so it ups the pressure as the engine wants more fuel. Helps keep the mixture from being too rich at lower rpms. Of course the computer keeps that from happening for long, but that then affects how much fuel it will give it at WOT. So an adjustable intellegent pressure riser seems like a good idea.

    The PVI does not seem to help as much on long hauls. I am going to talk to tech support tomorow and see what they have to say. The guy I talk to in canada says the canadan group only see returns on 2% of the unit, while the US group sees a 35% return rate. He attributes that to tech support. The canadian group works alot more with the user to fine tune things.

    The other thing I am looking at is water injection. I have had few conversations with people who have done this and they have seen good results. One guy is testing an FPR with water injection and a 3.0 pulley. It looks like their are a couple kits that should work. ERL Aquamist and Spearco. The Spearco is cheaper, but I can;t find a GTP owner who has put one on yet. The ERL is fairly popular, but expensive. YOU cn also build one but it seems like a lot of work. I may try the Spearco unit with a 3.25 pulley and the composite throttle body spacer from RAT. The spacer makes it easy to attach the injector, just tap the spacer and you are all set, without having to make unrecoverable changes. I am meeting with an exhaust guy on tuesday to price him putting on a couple flowmaster 50 series delta flow mufflers. I am keeping the rest of the exhaust stock for the time being. I like the current tips and flowmaster recommend keeping the resonator, unles I was building a complete brand-new cat back setup.
  • dmckeowndmckeown Member Posts: 107
    Fuel pressure riser , dumb me , I should have remembered that cause it's an upgrade I want to do. One reason I have left the car in it's current state of modification is I'm finally happy with it's performance , not to say I wont be happy with more ,I know I'd like about 40-50 more hp , but in this cooler weather that SSEi is an ANIMAL !
    In addition to the 3.25 pulley , short Gator Back SC belt , 185 therm. and the altered Thrasher cold air induction I run 94 octane Sunoco and NOS octane booster or 100 octane racing fuel (the better of the 2) .
    Sway bar mod will most likely be next for me , sounds like your getting close to a muffler upgrade . I'm I right in thinking you changed brands of low restriction muffler's your looking at ? Good luck and happy SSEing . Doug
  • dmckeowndmckeown Member Posts: 107
    Last night I bought my wife a surprise gift , a 99 Grand Prix to replace her Chevy . Unfortunately it's not a GTP or even a GT , it's an SE with the 3800 engine , single exhaust , but for $11,500 with all the toy's except moonroof and leather I couldn't resist . Not to mention it gives me some base to compare late model GP's to my 2000 SSEi for further mod's of the CAI alteration's I have already done .
    My dilemma now is should I take the K&N replacement filter out of my 93 SLE bonnie and put it in her 99 GP or keep it , hmm
  • ezraponezrapon Member Posts: 348
    St. Louis is seeing 40 degree temps. I have installed the 3.4 pulley and K&N element. I'm going to check out the new Midas low restriction muffler (10-15 HP gain, so they say) tomorrow. The car has hit 4000 miles it has a crank full of Mobil 1. All of these things combined have changed my little black sheep into a black monster. I'm not going after the Lesabres or GP GTs, I'm hunting camaros and mustangs. I think the next move might be a tranny cooler... who where and how much... give me a hint!
  • snicklesnickle Member Posts: 147
    The coolers are 50 -60 bucks. I had a quote of $100 to install one.
  • ezraponezrapon Member Posts: 348
    The new hi-flow muffler from Midas is called the Raven. It is black and looks like the factory set up. To have them welded in with factory tips will be right at 300 bucks... does that sound reasonable...anyone else go down this road yet? The GTP site has tranny coolers a bit cheaper, I e-mailed them to see if they might fit the SSEi. It depends how the lines are routed and the mounting position. I guess every thing will have to be fabricated anyway.
  • ezraponezrapon Member Posts: 348
    Midas, after looking at the car said to lose the muffler behind the cat... replace resonators with raven mufflers... any thoughts on this idea?
  • snicklesnickle Member Posts: 147
    The thing behind the cat is the resonator. The you have dual mufflers. Several of the people I have talked to, think the car wwwill be rather rude without the resonator. I am planning on just replacing the mufflers with flowmaster dynaflows. Thought if you eliminate the resonator and goto high flow mufflers, performance will increase. I wonder how loud it will be.
  • snicklesnickle Member Posts: 147
    I bit the bullet and ordered my flowmaster 50 series deltaflow mufflers today. Should be in by the end of the week. I'll try to get them installed next week. $193.78 including shipping.

    I am leaving the resonator (for now) in place.
  • ezraponezrapon Member Posts: 348
    essentially, if I yank the resonator and replase the stock mufflers, I will have installed a cat-back system. I belive it would flow quite nicely. Does the computer rely on the back pressure created by the resonator for command functions? Do GTP's have a resonator in place when they go with the cat-back? I could handle a little more noise... something in the camaro or mustang range would be acceptable. My Grand National had a nice Formula 1 type rumble that was quite pleasing; so I know the 3.8 is capable of sweet sounds. Dealer finaly got the rATTLE OUT OF THE Door... locking mechanisim was at fault. GTP guy said the air box for our cars and the GTP are the same...at least they have the same element... is this true...I know somebody just bought a GT???
  • snicklesnickle Member Posts: 147
    The GTP'ers tend to yank the resonator or replace it with a third party. Lurking their board gets mixed opinions. Though, they seem to like louder than I am willing. Yanking the resonator, should not cause any problems. The cat should provide enough back pressure, to keep the PCM happy. I would not expect much low-end power loss, unless you make big pipe size changes or adjust the pre-cat system.

    The GTP uses a different airbox, dmckeown managed to get the thrasher CAI to kind of fit. Lot's of duct tape, I think. I am still building mine.
  • dmckeowndmckeown Member Posts: 107
    I bought a Trasher CAI kit meant for a Grand Prix and modified it to fit . The factory air box and the area it goes in are deferent between the two car's . I had to cut a triangler section off the top and bottom plastic sections that make up the CAI air box , about 2" if I remember . I made a cardboard model of the new air box and modified that until it fit and then cut the plastic one to match . In the GP there is an opening in the fender wall as well as the air inlet hole , we do not have this opening so I left about an inch of gap on the top ,bottom and drivers side of box . PCM sit under box on the metal shelf of fender wall with a rubber mat (sup. in kit) under it . I made Z bracket's to clamp it down . CAI box fits flush with radiator wall keeping hot air from that area out off intake on passenger side of box . Cold air flows in through hole in head light wall into front of box , also some goes over PCM as in factory set up . some air must flow in 1" gap on top and driver side also because I duct taped them closed and noticed a slight decrease in performance , took tape off and a few more ponys showed up again . I made a bracket out of angle iron that attach's to rad. support and front pass. side of box keeping it in place . Bottom line , I can def. feel the difference between it and the K&N slip in replacement filter in 0-60 and passing power . The only bad side is for the first minute or so after start up the intake noise is incredible , then it cuts back to almost stock level , that is until you get into boost out on the road . Then you will notice increased intake and super charger noise , but that noise is great , real cool and it gets noticed by people walking on the street or next to you in a car , sorta like the woosh of a 4 barrel used to be noticed accept you don't have to be flooring it , only into the plus side of boost . Doug
  • smfransmfran Member Posts: 432
    Do you miss your Grand National as much as I miss my '86 T-Type? My '86 would blow away my 2000 SSEi. Circumstances changed for me in '88 which required me to look in to 4-Doors. I switched from Regals to Bonnevilles at that time and do love them (this is my 5th), but My T-Type had no rattles, a useful glove box, and much more "get up and go". I do think that the SSEi accelerates faster from 60 mph to ... but the Regal was quicker off the line and from slower speeds to 60. There was no turbo delay when you put your foot down like I get with the supercharger. If you want to see the nicest Regal ever, post your Email address and I'll attach a picture
  • ezraponezrapon Member Posts: 348
    I miss my GN everytime I mash the accelerator on my SSEi. Those damn things were highly underated. An engineer at Motor Trend claimed them to be over 300HP.It did not handle or stop like the SSEi and it leaked oil probably due to high crankcase pressure. Mine turned 13.5 1/4 miles and 0-60 in just under 5 seconds. It was 245 HP. The SSEi is 240... biggest 5 HP in history. Must have been the intercooler.
  • ezraponezrapon Member Posts: 348
    I'll be glad to look at your t-type. Mine was an 87... a little faster due to computer mods to the boost duration. I will be forced to send you a picture of my 79 T/A anniversary model that I've kept garaged since new... if your ssei was in the pic, i would not be disappointed. email is.....
    ezrapon@att.net I'd like to see pics of everyone's car and mods if possible...except for the guy in the SE from last month who accused us of being muderers for liking speed.
  • snicklesnickle Member Posts: 147
    The lag we all feel appears to come from a couple places:

    Intake, exhaust and tranny.

    Intake: From previous post you can see HP number on my SSEi with a 3.5 and a 9" cone filter and Intense01 with a 3.25 and stock intake. Very similar. With the cone my RPMs and boost spin up much faster, however at WOT with a warm engine the KRs kill overall performance.

    Exhaust: Too much back pressure for instant throttle response under full boost. See later post.

    Tranny - Some autotap readings and guesses implies a fair amount of power is being lost in the tranny during a punch. It settles out, but affect the response.
  • snicklesnickle Member Posts: 147
    I ordered one over the weekend. I will put it on a little later.
  • snicklesnickle Member Posts: 147
    Since it seems I am the first on the board to be moving to a new exhaust, I thought I woudl make an attempt at theory. All comments and criticism encouraged. No flaming, please. My backgrouond is computers not physics and automotive design.

    A few assumptions:

    Less backpressure is good. - An engine runs stongest with no exhaust and no thing to block the air leaving the engine. A big pipe of each valve provides maximum power, assuming the PCM allows it.

    Backpressure is most important at the valves. - The only place back pressure affects the engine is when the exhaust gas is trying to leave the engine. The engine could care less about downstream in the exhaust other than how it affects it at the valves.

    All exhuast design is a compromise based on how the car is driven. - The exhuast for a dragster and a commuter car have to differ. For example: Volume matters more in a commuter than a dragster.

    Exhaust is a series of pulses not a steady stream. - as each piston fire the valve open and release a jet of 1700 degree gases, then the valve closes and another opens. Hence a series of pulses.

    Bigger, less restrictive does not always mean less effective backpressure. - At WOT bigger is better until a point, at lower rpms things differ.

    Low RPMs - at low rpms a jet of gas escapes the valvle and heads towards the tail pipe at a large velocity. The valve closes. The gases continue by intertia to move toward the tail pipe. If there is not room for the gases to expand (bigger pipe) then the leaving gases will create a relative vacuum behind them at the valves. That will help suck the next burst of gas out of the cylinder NEGATIVE (kinda of) backpressure. With a bigger pipe, such as large headers, the exhuast gas expands when it leaves and does not create a vacuum, so the next pulse hit a mass of slower cooler air it has to move out of its way.

    WOT - At wide open throttle things differ a bit, with a standard exhaust the engine is expelling gasses faster than they can move down the small pipe (an SC makes this worse). Here a bigger pipe helps to increase the flow rate. Above a certain size the air would expand too much, cool down and slow. Tough balance.


    REducing restriction without increasing volume will help at all RPMs, big difference at low rpms.

    Increasing volume will help early in the system will help at WOT but may hinder low end torque. Later in the system shoudl help both, as long as it is not carried to extremes.

    Did that make any sense? Does not talk about volume, tone or frequency issues, but htose are personal. I will post my thoughts on that later.

    PS Drone is caused by exhaust gases moving too slowly through a muffler or open area.
  • dmckeowndmckeown Member Posts: 107
    One of the two most disappointing performance characteristics of my car was the lag between WOT and the car actually starting to accelerate . Every mod I have done has helped to lessen this effect until now I am reasonably happy with it . Second was 0-60 time and that also has improved but not as much as 30 - whatever has . The most improvement was with the 3.25 and CAI , by that I mean the improvement over stock with the 3.50 pulley and slip in K&N filter was great , very noticeable . But the second level of mod's was even more noticeable over then first level the 1st compared to stock , see me smile ! Now my car at this level is still not a Grand National coming out of the hole and won't ever be , but it's under 7 secound's for sure , and from 30 on up it's big fun . So you guy's that do miss that surge you got from your GN's , stay with your SSEi's and this forum and don't be afraid to make changes to your car to get some more performance out of it . also , a late model GTP GP did get a 11 second quarter mile time recently , great for a sc fwd .
    And to that black wolf in sheeps clothing down in St. Louie , welcome to the small pulley club , who say's size dosen't matter ? Has your brother inlaw seen those SSEi tailight's yet in a grudge match or are you waiting to do more mod's ? See ya Le Saber ! By the way , the Thrasher cold air kit looks pretty good under my hood , shows off the red K&N cone filter real nice . The kit cost a bit and the mod's took me a few hours to figure out and implement but I think I have the only 2000 SSEi currently running a cold air induction , even if it is not the absolute best like a hood scoop . Have fun , Doug
  • ezraponezrapon Member Posts: 348
    In the 70's life was simple. You slapped on headers, a 4 barrel intake and Holley, put in a 50 dollar crane cam, tinkered with the distibutor and shaved off seconds of quarter mile time and made outstanding burnouts at the local hamburger joint. THESE were mods we did to our parents or family's car (we were a wild bunch back then). We would snicker when we heard the engine lope on my dad's 72' Catalina. He never realized we souped up the engine on sleep overs at friend's houses. My best friend's mom's Torino wagon was turning 13 second 1/4 miles... they had the trailer package which gave a nice ratio posi rear end. We basically didn't know what the hell we were doing, but we did it anyway... low end cam and a high end intake... stuff that didn't always work together. As I got older and wiser (I'm a teacher now) I messed with heads, valve springs, cam duration and induction issues. I made some fast Chevy's and Pontiacs. The Grand National was pretty much as fast as I ever needed to go...had a bumper sticker WARNING: I BRAKE FOR CORVETTES! It was cool but had no chasis dynamics or handling
    at all (solid axel). This SSEi has outstanding chasis dynamics and the potential for improvement (has anyone tested the stabilitrack and does in shut off when you defeat the traction control?)I think the front wheel drive platform has inheirent weaknesses that will never be overcome totally, but why is changing exhaust systems got to be so hard. I want to remove the resonator and go with twin mufflers (not nosiy). But with the talk of backpressure or lack of, I'm scared to touch it....I wish my son would borrow it and change a few things for me.
    P.S. The day after the 3.4 went on I embarrassed the Lesabre... I vanquished him earlier when the temperature was down in the 50's. Like my old GN, these things appear to be highly sensitive to the surrounding environment. I'd like to see pics of any intake or exhaust work anyone has done.
  • wblaserwblaser Member Posts: 1
    I recently purchased a 92 Bonneville SE, an I am trying to find out what kind of fuel consumption I should expect from this car; It is rated 18-28MPG, and I am getting about 21.7 in combined city highway driving. I have had other vehicles with the 3.8 V6 engine, and have gotten closer to 26 driving the exact same way to work. I tried highway driving and managed to get 23.6MPG.
    Is this the norm for a Bonneville?

    Thanks for any inputs or comments.
  • rea98drea98d Member Posts: 982
    My grandmother drives a 1992 Bonneville SSE with the NA 3.8 litre V-6. I kept track of fuel use on a recent trip from East Texas to West Palm Beach, Fla, and the car averaged about 28.5 MPG. I was actually disappointed in this performance, because on cross-country jaunts in my V-8, RWD Thunderbird, I get about 27.5. I was really hoping the Pontiac, with FWD and fewer cylinders, would do better than one MPG more than my T-Bird, but that's the way it goes. 28.5 is nothing to sneeze at.
  • snicklesnickle Member Posts: 147
    I don't think pulling the resonator would cause any real performance problems. It should improve overall and maybe cut a little into low end, but I doubt it. Just disconnect the battery for an hour afterward. Let the PCM recalibrate from scratch.

    My concern with the resonator is volume and tone. So I am going a little step at a time.

    The new muffler I hope to have on next week.

    My exhuast desire are:

    Eliminate the resonator or replace with an performance aftermarket.

    Go to 2.5 piping from cat to split for the mufflers. Leave the 2.25 after the split.

    RAT ported exhaust manifolds. I talked with them, the porting they do does not significantly increase the manifold volume, just smooth flow. If that is the case it should help performance without decreasing the post pulse vacuum.

    We'll see what happens at some point.
  • snicklesnickle Member Posts: 147
    Anyone going to try it?
  • smfransmfran Member Posts: 432
    I sent you pics of my T-Type and SSEi. It took about 20 minutes to upload. Please be patient when downloading.
  • ezraponezrapon Member Posts: 348
    Got the pics today...wish I has a DSL. As soon as the monsoons here in St. Louis stop I'll roll the firebird out for a Photo shoot. I see u have the pin stripe on ur SSEi. (SNICKLE) What are odds of finding an aftermarket resonator... if gtp guys don't have one available .... we won't see it. I too would like to eliminate it altogether, add 2 1/2 pipes to low restriction mufflers. I wouldn't mind an authoratative growl aka. like a vette, but not like a Viper or Harley. The factory put a hell of a lot of thought installing the factory mufflers didn't they?.....GO CARDINALS!!!!!!
  • smfransmfran Member Posts: 432
    No additional comments on the Regal T-Type? Don't you at least like the aftermarket American Racing wheels? What about my SSEi? Do you like the pinstripe or not? I'd also like to see a pic of your SSEi along with the T/A. I'm sure I'll have compliments for you.
    I'm sorry I can't root for the Cardinals, but ever since the '67 World series, us Sox fans need to back a different team. It can't be the Mets or Yankees, so I guess it will have to be either the Giants or Oakland!
  • ezraponezrapon Member Posts: 348
    OK, I loved the t-type. I always thought they looked cooler than the GN's anyway. I would have to see a pin stripe in person to evaluate it completely. I remember seeing 87 t=types with similiar wheels. Much better than the GN wheels. I just realize I sent the pics to the wrong guy. I hope dmckeown enjoys them (sorry I hit reply... the rest is history.) Some history in all those pics... my T/A a throw back to the 60's, big block, 4 speed, and 4-barrel. The t-type is a transistion between the T/A and the SSEi. The T/A is sooooo different than the SSEi. The 3.8 is like an electric motor driven car. Quiet reserved, efficent, and extremely high tech. The firebird is a viseral rush with rubber smoking, quadrajet roar, and slamming gears... they actually compliment one another quite well.
  • ezraponezrapon Member Posts: 348
    In a perfect world, the SSEi would have a shaker hood feeding ice cold air right into the induction system. They (pontiac)invented it with the gto, improved it with the T/A, and re-invented with the new Ram Air Firebirds...too bad the one car that would benefit the most, was left OUT of the cold. Everytime I hear air being sucked into my 400 (even at idle) I wonder why not an innercooler or tastefull hood opening... what are they afraid of... the STS has 300 HP.
  • smfransmfran Member Posts: 432
    Ezrapon - Thanks for the pic. Your T/A is really special. I also like your Midnight Blue SSEi. Are you sure you are a teacher!?
    At first I did not go with the pinstripe, but after bringing it home and listening to my wife and son, and reading other posts in the beginning of this forum, I went for it and am glad I did. It does add something to the wide body panels.
    I just got back from test driving my neighbor's 2000 Camaro SS. With standard tranny and over 300 horses, talk about a throwback. I really enjoyed driving it. It threw me back in my seat the way my T-Type did. I miss that.
  • dmckeowndmckeown Member Posts: 107
    Thanks for sending the picture of your SSEi and your Trans Am , they do look nice together , makes me wish I never sold my 69 TA back in 75 , that one and a few others , oh well .
    I will try to get a picture of my CAI modification this week and send it to you , although it looks like rain till Wednesday around here and I don't drive the SSEi in the rain if I don't have too. I'll snag a digital camera out of a lab or something . Doug
  • intense01intense01 Member Posts: 107
    OK guys, I have another idea on how to wake up our SSEi's a little bit more.

    Camshaft lobe lift on the stock L67 engine is listed at .258"/.255" (Intake/Exhaust). With the stock 1.6:1 roller rocker arms, this gives theoretical valve lift values of .413"/.408".

    They make an aftermarket set of 1.8:1 roller rockers for the LS1 engine. If these will fit our heads, we should get valve lift of .465"/.459".

    If these rockers will work on our engine, I would guess that the exhaust note would become 'crisper', and we'd gain a minimum of 10 horsepower. With improved intake and exhaust systems, I think the gains would be significantly higher.

    I've searched high and low through the '00 LS1 and '00 L67 Helm manuals, and can't seem to verify if these rocker arms would be interchangeable. So, I am forced to do the next best thing. I have sent my girlfriend off to the Pontiac dealer to buy one an L67 and an LS1 rocker arm. If they are interchangeable, I plan to order a set of the 1.8:1 arms from Crane Cams.

    Anyone have any thoughts?
  • ezraponezrapon Member Posts: 348
    I have done this before in the old days with pontiac 400 engines. Using the ram air engine ratio rocker arms on the standard 400 head for performance gains. This was sort of a poor man's cam swap. The Ls1 is so different than the 350 buick small block.... the fore father of our 3.8, I'd be surprised if they were even close, but stranger things have happen. I think the GTP guys would have stumbled onto any quick HP fixes, but again... stranger things! I'm guess a cam change on a transverse mounted engine would be too much.
    After each mod, I'm having more torque steer issues... almost too much traction, i guess this is the nature of the beast... didn't seem so unpredictable in the 300 hp STS... better engineering in the caddy????
  • dmckeowndmckeown Member Posts: 107
    I guess when I say no drawbacks to my last modifications I'm ignoring the torque steer , probably cause I've had front drive cars for so long now . My car is a handfull when WOT is applied at low speeds , I never have the traction control on . Two hands are needed on the wheel to minimize this effect . Probably intense with his 18" tires has a little less of this then we do with stock 17" tires
  • adomeradomer Member Posts: 2
    Intend to look at both cars next week. Would like to hear any thoughts from others who looked at both and chose the Bonnie.

  • dmckeowndmckeown Member Posts: 107
    I wanted more performance then the 300M offered and the stock SSEi had it . I am VERY HAPPY now that I have found out how easy and cheaply I was able to modify my 2000 SSEi for even more horse power and driving pleasure
  • dmckeowndmckeown Member Posts: 107
    Ezrapon , did you get the pictures I sent you of the Thrasher CAI and the pinstripe ?
  • ezraponezrapon Member Posts: 348
    Got the pics. The CAI looks better than I expected. It actually dresses up the engine compartment. Too bad you had to modify it to fit.
    I guess we will always be the GTP step-children. I guess I'm the only guy who chose not to opt for the pin stripe. Still have not seen one in person up close.
  • dmckeowndmckeown Member Posts: 107
    SMFRAN got me thinking about a pinstripe . So after having my car for a week or so I took it back to the dealer to have them remove some swirl marks they left when they buffed and waxed it . They put the pinstripe on for free for the inconveince of bringing it back . Only problem , they put white on instead of gray so I will replace it some time with two thin gray ones instead of one thick one thin like it has .
    As for the Thrasher CAI I think it looks better in the SSEi then in the Grand Prix because of the brace going over it in the GP . If anyone else wants to see the pictures post your E mail address
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