Pontiac Bonneville

tpken

Got to throw in my two SEnts here on this topic.

The SSEi and SLE are definitely on the edge and I find it interesting that my SE was styled so differently. You don't usually find that much noticeable difference between series in a model. The SLE and SSEi are definitely controversial in their aggressive stance. SE looks ready for ballroom dancing.

My opinion of the SE is that it has a more elegant bearing than any GM product short of Park Avenue - in fact I don't think Cadillac or even Lexus or Infinity look any classier than the Bonneville SE. It is amazing how many people look at this car and ask "Is that a Lexus?" I think it has to be the touches of chrome combined with nicely done lights both front and rear - stately but not overdone. Pontiac has essentially produced two cars by differentiating the SE from the SLE and SSEi. Both looks are assertive, I would say even manly. To use a different metaphor, SE is the type to win at chess, SSEi will take home the Stanley Cup, SLE is Cy Young material.

Mailed my tax checks today - hope snail mail lives up to it's name!

Looking forward to NJ on Sunday. I expect to arrive around 1:00. Can you believe we are predicted to have SNOW here tonight? UGH!!!

Ken

bdreggors

Snow in April? Man, Winter's lingering on up North. Guess what the low is tonight in Tampa Bay, Florida? 50 degrees! Man, it feels like winter again!

Hope my Bonnie keeps warm enough under her cover. I can't stand to watch Ma Nature torture her like this!

tpken

Isn't more than another 20 hour drive (without stopping!) Maybe I'll just stop by NJ for a couple hours and just keep driving south!! Bet it will be a lot warmer than 50 in Sunday. I've got a brother in Tampa - maybe I'll surprize him and then give you a call, Brian - we can make it a Fla meet!

Ken

boosted1

I believe that the factory spec for the Bonneville is 32 psi. It is indicated on the drivers door label.

I am pretty sure that the tire pressure monitor uses the ABS wheel sensors to compare the speed of each wheel. An under inflated tire will rotate at a different speed. I believe the warning comes on when there is a 5 psi differential.

Hope this helps.

smfran

1)The post size goes wide due to the pictures by black silver. Once you are off that page of 20 posts, the screen size should return to normal.

2)Ken, you are in charge. I live about 20 miles south of the city and can meet whenever/where ever you say. Any starting ideas?

3)The tire pressure sensor does work the way bdreggors says. It senses difference in rpm, not actual pressure.

4)Styling is definitely in the eye of the buyer. Consumers vote with their dollars. If the vehicle sells well, this translates in to the fact that people like it. The Bonneville has the highest percentage of repeat model buyers than any current vehicle. Many of us in this forum have had multiple Bonnies. as far as the difference in the SE vs. SLE/SSEi, I don't see as much of a difference as Ken describes. The cars are different, but not by that much.

hardesty

Remember that you need to reset the tire pressure monitor anytime you add air, remove air, or rotate the tires. The monitor then goes into learn mode. There are four different speed ranges, and three levels of learning for each speed range. The service manual does not give complete details of the software, but I would guess that it could take several hundred miles (and some fast driving (75+)) to complete a full pressure learn. The monitor should be able to detect a tire 8-10 lbs low, and this is before a driver is likely to notice any difference in handling.

smfran

Have you suddenly found yourself subscribed to the Aztec owners club? This happened to me because I originally subscribed to the Pontiac owners club when we first started with our new format. Now the Aztec group has been added to the Pontiac owners club so I had to unsubscribe to each individual Aztec discussion.

pat

(now why I am afraid of what comes next? :-))

Actually, I think (?) you can click on the Aztek folder and "unsubscribe" at the bottom of the discussion list for that folder - someone try it, and let us know if that works, rather than having to do that for each individual discussion.

Pat
Host
Sedans and Women's Auto Center Message Boards

bdreggors

Maybe you can scout the highways for other Bonnies, LeSabres, Auroras, and Sevilles and head a superconvoy down to Florida!

Smfran,
Highest repeat buyers? Wow, didn't know that. I knew it was a popular car, but I thought that a Buick or maybe the Civic would get that honor, although there is a nice old couple a few houses over that buys a new Buick every 3 years to "keep 'em fresh!"

As far as the pressure monitor goes, I learned that it takes a quite a few revolutions for the sensors to kick in. About a month after I bought my Bonnie, I blew out the right rear tire. I was in the center turning lane of 3-lane road, I merged back into traffic, butted my way across a bunch of cars, and pulled onto a side street (about a mile's distance total). I got out to check the tire ("Yup, blew that sucker out good!") and got back in to plan my course of action when the "Check Tire Pressure" message came on the DIC. I must admit, it gave me a well-needed chuckle as i thought "Duh!"

Henry

HELLO

Once agian the loan Aurora (pronouned aROARa) enters the board. Thanks for the compliment on my car. I think its a keeper.

I stop in to say that I told my Mechanic about the meet and he appeared interested in coming. The J.C. Penny parking lot right? I am taking it for granted that there will be signs.

Jerry is a true Aurora fan. You can eat off the tires of his 95. He is also a top notch mechanic that I drive 20 miles to take my car to his dealership so that he can work on my 4,000 pound baby.

Although his specialty is not Bonneville, I am sure that he would be able to provide insight to some of your maintainance questions. For those of you who have developed good relationships with your dealers/mechanics, I would suggest you tell them about the meet. You never know what reponse you might get.

Also, a friend of mine the has a Deville was wondering if there would be any Caddie owners there. Anybody from the Caddie forums say they were coming?

I have said to friends that it was a meet for folks owning General Motors cars. Is this a correct characterization????

Feel free to cross post to the Aurora 3 forum.

Henri

theiceman

No Stephen - I subscribed to the Aztek forum for a short spell while I was checking out the vehicle and engaging in a few safety arguments. Although there's a lot of posts there, my interest rapidly waned and I unsubscribed about 2 weeks ago. I am no longer receiving any updates from that forum - or the owner's club.

Dan

smfran

I should not have tried to unsubscribe to each individual Aztec discussion as you mentioned. I learned this because when I went to "read subscriptions", the Aztec ones came up again. This was because I did not unsubscribe to the Owners Club as a whole. I then did it the same way you said and it does work. Thanks for keeping an eye on us.
Stephen

smfran

I don't know which make is the most popular or has the highest repeat buyers, but I remember reading that the Bonneville model specifically, has the highest percentage of repeat buyers. It certainly is not the most popular car on the road.

tpken

Of any variety are welcome as far as I'm concerned so long as the owners don't start the GM bashing that has characterized some of the other Edmunds forums.

Caddies - Yes Henry - I posted an invitation in the Cadillac Meets Here forum and the SeVille forum and one guy wrote to say he has encouraged other NJ Caddy owners to come so please encourage your friend(s) to come.

I don't have a count on how many cars will be there other than the half dozen that have said yes here - 4 Bonnies and 2 Auroras (including Mordecai). We'll see when we get there and enjoy the time with whomever shows up.

Signs - You NJ guys think they are a good idea? I suppose they would probably attract the curiosity of (male) shoppers who might stop by to see what's up. It's up to you guys.

Ken

Henry

I think they should be put up to steer folks to the right area. Why keep it a secret???? As you said, you may get a few of the curious that happen to be in the mall.

I will probably be there around 2:00pm or so.

scottnsc1

I think one reason Bonneville customers tend to be so loyal is the fact these are really good cars to start with, and then each new re-design is such a dramatic leap forward that you feel compelled to at least test drive it. We all know what happens once you drive this car - out comes the check book.

This is my first Bonneville, but I have driven an '85, '87, '93, '97 and now by 2001. My sister drove her '87 for 164,000 miles and it was never in the shop for anything other than wear & tear items (brakes, shocks, belts).

My car has a few rattles that I plan to have checked, but basically it is a great car in all the right areas (platform, engine, transmission), and I look forward to several very enjoyable years driving it.

PS: I ordered my Zaino products yesterday, so my Bon should be looking as good as it drives for a long time to come.

xena16

Hello, Fellow Bonneville owners (I love saying that). My name is Xena and I formally introduced myself and told the story of how I became a Bonneville owner 6 days ago on the "Meet the Members" Board. BTW, thanks for the welcome, Dan.
I have a question about getting a CD Changer installed in my Bonne, I just had it taken out of my old '89 Beretta and I think I saw someone say on this board that they had a problem putting one in their Bonne. My changer is the FM Modulator type that goes in the trunk (in my case) and the remote control is hooked up to the FM Radio. So far, I've called a couple places to get some installation estimates and either they haven't said anything about a problem or they won't put an old changer in at all! What's up with that?
So, has anyone actually installed a CD Changer in a '96 Bonne? I really hope it can be done...I miss my music big time. Grateful for any input...

vtech83

Hey Bonneville Owmers:

I've seen in some past posts that those of you with the load leveler have some kind of air compressor connection in your trunk. My LeSabre has the load leveler as well, but I can't seem to find any type of connector in the trunk.

Where is it and what does it look like?

Thanks. Sorry I can't make the 22nd.

Mike
2001 LeSabre Limited
Medium Red, Taupe Interior

theiceman

there is no connection in the inside of the trunk of my '00 SLE. That was an option only available on the '00 and '01 SSEi - I think.

Dan

bdreggors

I'm not sure about the LeSabre, but the compressor connection is towards the front of the truck when you open it; you can't miss it on the Bonnie.

Scott,
I think you've hit it regarding the repeat owners. Not only has the car improved each generation, but it's stayed true to its roots as a performance car (well, except those barges in the 70s!).

My car isn't just my first Bonneville, its my first Pontiac as well. And I must say, I am VERY impressed.

smfran

After having three Buick Regals in the 1980's I found myself needing a four door sedan in 1988. I wanted a performance car as my last Regal was the '86 T Type with the 3.8 turbo. Buick did not offer a T Type Regal at all in '88 and the Lesabre T type was N/A in a four door, so I switched to what I thought was the next best thing; a black Bonneville SE. The SE was the "performance" Bonnie at that time. I've since had a total of five. I love Bonnevilles!

mfahey1

There's no reason why you can't install a changer on your 96. I put a Sony in my 96 with absolutely no problems. The new Bonnevilles have incorporated the sound system into the on-board computer, hence the problem with the new cars trying to change out the factory unit.
I'm sure this is going to insult the Aurora owners lurking out there and it's not really intended that way. We were in heavy freeway traffic today with the various lanes slowing down and speeding up. A couple of times, I passed a white car that I took for a 2000 or 2001 Taurus and a couple of times it passed me. No big deal, my wife and I were talking and it barely registered as I was keeping track of traffic. Finally, traffic opened up and it started to overtake me. I could tell from the front end that it was an Aurora but was I surprised when the back end went by that it was actually the car I thought was the Taurus.
I've decided that after the last couple of trips that I definitely need (want) to go to the 3.4" pulley. Would it be reasonable to assume that since these engines are basically air pumps that you put fuel into, speeding up the supercharger by nearly 12% should increase the horsepower by a similar amount? If so, that would put the engine rating at 268hp which would be a noticable difference.

intense01

It would be nice if the 3.4" pulley gave an additional 12% in horsepower. It doesn't quite work that way, for four reasons that I am aware of:

1) Speeding up the supercharger increases the amount it heats the intake charge, which in turn reduces adiabatic efficiency.

2) Increasing combustion temperature increases the likelihood of detonation, which increases the likelihood of the knock sensor(s) sensing engine knock, which then invoke the dreaded Knock Retard (KR), which in turn retards ignition timing, which in turn reduces horsepower. This works in much the same way that Traction Control does - it pulls timing, fuel, and boost pressure.

3) Increasing combustion pressure through an increased boost level has the same effect as number two above.

4) Unless your exhaust is modified, this is one of your weak links. The strength of any chain is determined by it's weakest link. With a 3.4" pulley and a restrictive exhaust system, you won't be able to realize the full potential of the pulley.

So, I would guess that your gains will be on the order of half of 12%. Say about 14 horsepower or so. But that's just my opinion. Each car responds a little differently, and everyone has different opinions...

Hope this is helpful information!

Scott A. Cook
2000 SSEi with many many many mods

theiceman

Picked up this link on another forum: American Sports Sedans.

Dan

xena16

for the info on the CD Changer. I'll make that appointment now.

Xena

tpken

Great article Dan - nice pics there too. Imagine these guys actually get paid to run those tests and play with these cars!! Where do I sign up?

Ken

theiceman

That was one of two thoughts that occurred to me as I read the article - the other being the wisdom of a phonecall to Saner.

bdreggors

Great article! Definetly shows that the USA has still got it.

I agree with it largely except for the Aurora (which I think deserves more credit as a TOURING sedan).

Oh, and did you read the part about the Regal GS squealing the tires? I did that sooo many times when I had my Buick.

Also, I can really identify with the intro. I think we ALL have smoked a Bimmer one time or another .

vtech83

Nice article -- those were pretty much all the cars I was looking at buying. I have to wonder about some of the numbers posted, though, especially for the SSEi and the Lincoln LS. Most other puplications give all of these cars much better marks for acceleration, braking, and handling. The LeSabre I've got will hit 60 just over seven seconds -- I do it pretty much every time when I have a chance. One thing I've found out is that I can accelerate better if I don't go WOT out of the gate. I usually let the car get out of first and then nail it.

Mike
2001 LeSabre Limited
Medium Red, Taupe Interior

theiceman

Yeah, I didn't agree with the numbers either - I find that 0-60 times in publications have to be taken with a grain of salt. I have a hard time replicating them myself anyway.

smfran

Thanks for the link. I agree with the method vtech uses for increased acceleration; let the car get out of first and then give it the gas.
I don't remember exactly where I read the Bonneville repeat buyer percentage info. Possibly in a Consumer Reports or an auto mag in a doctors office once. Sorry.
Stephen

mfahey1

To give credence to the fact that the 7.5 sec 0-60 time for the SSEi is bogus, the GTP was shown as 6.8 sec. No doubt because of the lighter weight and possibly better gearing, the GTP will be quicker but I doubt that much quicker.

mfahey1

Dan, if you actually get anything out of Saner, you're the man. I've been waiting since late January and I think Steven has been waiting even longer. Even at that, the last information I got from him was that he was only in a position at this time to produce the rear bar. He was having trouble with the dies for the front.
Scott, thanks for the feedback. I was hoping for a bit more than 14hp. but since the pulley isn't all that costly, I'll still go for it. Do I remember way back when in the posts that with a 3.5" pulley, you can get away with the stock serpentine but anything smaller requires a different belt? Have you ever gotten a solution to your computer issues after all the work that you did?

Mark

tpken

They had artist rendering of the new generation Lincoln - possibly a 4 door convertible coming that takes a lot of styling cues from the 1961. The chrome molding that runs along the ridge of the side is there and the tail light treatment - looks really cool!

I remember as a kid watching all those Perry Mason shows (was supposed to be in bed then!) and he always drove that new Lincoln convertible - loved those!

I hope they do bring that look out - it's a vast improvement over the present bloated look of the Town Car and the geriatric Continental. LS would look good that way too.

I realize this probably belongs in the LS forum - but I thought you guys might have seen the drawings.

Ken

boosted1

Has anybody installed a remote starter on a year 2000 or newer Bonneville? If so what brand, and did you have any problems with the pass key theft deterent?

TIA

Rich

intense01

Mark:

I figured I should be the one to post this, since I have tried them all. The following list is for SSEi's only. GTP's and GS's use different length belts than we do.

Stock 3.8" pulley - comes with 72.4" belt
3.6", 3.5" or 3.4" pulley - use 72.0" belt
3.25" or 3.2" pulley - use 71.5" belt
3.1", 3.0" or 2.9" pulley - use 71.0" belt

There is some leeway in the tensioner, but the sizes I've listed above should put your tensioner right in the middle of it's adjustment range.

Hope this is helpful information!

Scott

theiceman

My dealer promised to installed a remote starter in my Bonneville (gratis - as compensation for the fact that the ignition module had to be replaced on day 1) but I don't like them - despite the Northern climate. Anyway, he claimed that there would be no problem installing it.

Oddly, I also have a block heater and never use it so I'm kinda holding out for an upgrade to the speakers or maybe just a break on car no.2

Ken: have not seen the sketches of the new LS - please post a link here if you find. Yeah, this is the Bonneville forum but I'm no purist.

Dan

zzahh

Well, I have been a bit quiet of late, however, I still stop in when I have the time. In keeping with a bit of the ambiance of the forum, I had the distinct pleasure of dusting two rice grinders off the lights the other day. An Accord on my left, the kid in the Integra pulls up on my right (in the parking lane). Light turns green, I had to feather it a bit to hook up, but the Bonnie walked and Brett says see ya!. It was quite fun. Best part. Next light. I pull up, a guy in a Grand Prix pulls up next to me, down goes the window, he's all grins, and simply says "nice job". Yes, life is good.

Now as you all know in the ongoing saga, I am not in a position to purchace the new and improved version of the SSEi, my ex has made sure of such things (read the how-to book "How to avoid shrews and other nasty creatures"). However, I may need a bit of advice here guys, does dating a gal with money to burn (lots of it)and a Mercedes 230 SEL Kompressor help to offset the pain, or am I just imagining things? More updates to follow.

Brett

PS As an aside the retractable hard top on the Kompressor is an amazing engineering feat. Reminds me of my fathers '64 Lincoln (did see the post above regarding Lincolin rag tops of old and potentially new.) you want to see an absolute Rube Goldberg contraption, just watch the top of a '64 fold into the trunk. When those get out of sync....... but that's a whole 'nuther story.

tpken

Brett - the father of one of my college buddies once told me to "Marry money, make money and inherit money." Wish I'd been successful in at least one of three. I'd be in a new SSEi (or maybe even a MB 500S), not a used SE!

Ken

mfahey1

Well, my faith in GM's ability to supply reliable electronics is being sorely tested. Fairly soon after we took delivery of our 2000, the reset function of the DIC failed. A couple of trips to the dealer later, it was fixed.
Then, about a month ago, the ignition module failed. A trip behind the tow truck, a couple days at the dealer and it too was fixed.
Now, the compass has failed. We'll see how many trips back this will take. This was how one of our Caravans started out and it went downhill from there so I must say that this doesn't appear to bode well for the future.

pturner1

I have a 2000 SSEi with a Delta Pro2000 combo.

http://www.car-alarms.com/

(Check out the testimonials page)

I park in a garage 1700' from the house(the closest place I could rent). The remote starts the car with no problem. It sure is nice on Chicago cold mornings and in the heat to cool the car. Plus, if the security is breached, the car sends a signal to the key fob and the display shows and sounds if it was just a bump or a break-in. Great for knowing if the alarm going off is you or somebody else.

The installer used one of the valet keys and attached it to the ignition cylinder.

I haven't had a problem.

Rick

kzm

Rick,

What's the dollar ($$$$) damage? Install too?

KZM

frog_sc38

The compass is reset by driving tight circles in a parking lot. Intense: A Bonne-pallooza sounds awesome. I would drive more than a few miles to see/participate in all of the events you are talking about. Sounds like a place to have a pulley party too. I was under the impression that youy get a lot more than 14 HP from a pulley. I thought that several people said you get 60 to 70 putting a stock engine around 300 with a 3.4. Have I been mis-informed ? How has your Bonnie been running lately ?

Frog
www.00bonneville.com
Neo - 6500 Songs, 400 CD's - Like having a jukebox in your car,home, where ever you are.

ezrapon

Alas, other than the constant intermittent sqeaks and rattles (which will probably force me back to a Pakk Ave. soon) My compass laid an egg twice. If it died a quiet dignified death it would not have bothered me. It was always dinging demanding to be recalibrated... drive in small circles... set zone etc. The dealer would just reclibrate it, the same way I did and give it back. A day or 2 later the chimes would start again. 2 modules later it only does it about once a month... I guess that's as good as it gets... never had this problem with the Park's compass. As for the pulley. Expect 25 to 30 HP gain with the 3.4 pulley. That is from the GTP web site. Because we don't have the restrictive u-bend exhaust it might be over 30 HP. Add the K&N drop in element and count on around 35 HP. I've been building engines since my teen days. My seat of the pants and drop in 0-60 tells me these HP ratings are very accurate. Check out the GTP site. I will pull my 3.4 for my park should I make the move... a fast park? What a sleeper.

mfahey1

I drove in enough small circles to start to get dizzy. I figured after about 2 minutes, either the cops would check in to see about suspicious behavior or that it was shot. It's bad enough that the thing croaked but as Rod said, the message to recalibrate takes over the rest of the DIC.
Thanks for the heads up, though. I dug out the owner's manual to see if I didn't understand the directions on the DIC to drive slowly in small circles.

mfahey1

Please listen very carefully. You must resist the Force for it is very strong. Failure to obey will result in you becoming an OF (as in Old Folk). The lure to convert back to a Park Avenue may be strong but you must have the will to resist. Just because you would be driving the ultimate sleeper doesn't mean you should give in to the Force.
Just imagine sitting at the light. Some kid will look you over(probably in a rice burner), size you up, and say to himself "he looks like an English teacher in a Park Avenue, I can take him". Is this what you want your life to become?
. You must give it some very careful thought or else.

boosted1

Rick and Dan, Thanks for the input on the remote starter.

I made the mistake of instsalling one in my wifes old car, now she thinks its the greatest thing since sliced bread. I was concerned about the pass key, but it sounds like there is a work around.

Thanks again

Rich

pturner1

I paid $450 American (installed) for the Delta Pro 2000 combo.
I also got one for my girlfriends PT Cruiser. And Rich, she made the same comment about sliced bread.
BTW, what was the greatest thing before sliced bread?
Rick

theiceman

So, I finally received something from the General this week - a magazine ("Motion" - in the spirit of these one-word magazine titles which, in Canada, must work equally well in French). A lot o' fluff and a lot of made-in-Canada content. A sample: dark colours make vehicles look smallermen like orange-based redswomen like blue-based redsbeiges and blues are safe bets on carsluxury cars get "soothing" colours (no controversies here) like silvers and grays.

Rick: I think the pre-sliced bread greatest thing was the ice-box. There was no greatest thing before that and the sliced bread thing came by so quickly after that there was never really time for a "greatest thing since the ice-box" expression. Besides, that "23 skidoo" was still going around. Wow - just think of them olden days - no electric fridges, no superchargers, no traffic.....

ttfn

Dan

smfran

mfahey is right. Don't even think about it. My 71 year old father just ordered his second new Park Ave. Great car as it is, would it really be right for you?