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Comments
Thanks
INKY
~alpha
Thanks!
A close friend hated his '98 Civic - said it was a piece of tin and lots of things went wrong.
Just slam the door on each car. That was enough to sway me!
Jetta and Golf are safer than almost all their competitors and have better safety rating than Civic.
The sources that are unbiased have different data than what you present. Do you have a bias against VW blueguy? No anecdotes please.
Don't need an anecdote when the facts speak so clearly.
The facts are that the Jetta is reliable and better than average.
Cars do not break down based on opinions.
When I start seeing some factual actual data I will give some credibility to your opinion.
VW is surely doing something right as their sales have increased as other manufacturers have decreased.
C'mon blueguy, support your case with some data.
Problems are opinions now? Seems to me people whitewash this car's problems far too often. From my experience in here and at VWVortex, most people don't list rattles or random sounds in a brand new vehicle as a mechanical defect. Well what is it then? If anything, I'd say VW has hoodwinked most buyers into accepting their "that's normal for this car" routine that the salespeople spout to buyers who complain about the rattling, oil burning, etc.
"Cars do not break down based on opinions."
My car hasn't physically broken down either, but it initial quality is poor to say the least. Within the second month it began to rattle, buzz and thump. Trips to the stealership have resulted in no change to that. Officially the car is reliable. In reality, it's a rattling annoyance on wheels. Would the AIS system rank rattles or vibrating interior components as "break downs"?
Regardless, why are you so offended by my suggestion someone consult sources OTHER than anecdotes in a bulletin board? I'm not gonna hand someone the stats. Let the person track them down as I did and make a decision on data collected by professionals, not the whinings of disgruntled owners (me) or posturing of the lucky owners (don't want to list the guilty).
Why not just suggest your AIS system and let it be? Ideally someone will trust real sources and not people in here.
BTW, it's not "my opinion" that the VW's is not up to snuff with the Corolla or Civic. JD Power and CR state that. I'm merely suggesting people check into it.
Gee, last time I checked, the Golf did offer a V6. CR does rate both the Golf and Jetta very highly except that the Golf reports more problems by its readers. They even point out that the Jetta is based on the Golf. The Golf (along with the Passat) is asembled in Germany and the is Jetta assembled in Mexico. For whatever reason, the German made VWs seem to have less problems. I'm not sure, but some Golfs may now be made in Mexico, but the reliability info from CR is from MY2000 and earlier.
Agree or disagree with CR, but they don't rate cars based on surveys. Try reading a road test and that will be obvious. Their surveys are used to determine reliability. But it doesn't matter how highly CR editors may like a car, if it has a below average reliability rating they will not recommend the car (like the Jetta).
As for the Civic and Jetta. The Civic is a very good economy car while the Jetta is a premium small car. But the base engine in the Jetta is not up to snuff compared to the rest of the car.
VW may have reliability issues, but the A/C's have a good reputation for being powerful. Can't say the same for my Accord.
Melech
Does anyone know the story on their data - - sample size, source, definitions, etc? I'm not disagreeing with their findings, just very interested in a new source of consumer info.
Melech
That said.. the Jetta was probably the most troublesome car I've owned..aside from the Volvo.. But I still loved it because of its "feel".
I test drove a 2000 Golf when I purchased the Civic.. I expected the Golf to "feel" much better than my '85 Jetta.. couldnt be farther from the truth.. one drive turned me off.. soft suspension..poor power..saging seats..etc..etc.. so I bought the Civic.. it feels much better than the Golf.. and better than a relatives new Beetle.. the down side with the Civic is it doesnt feel as safe as the VW.. and you really need to rev the engine to get any power out of it.. the Civic also creaks..seems the fold down rear seats are the problem..VERY annoying!
My relatives Beetle has died on him 3 times..VW seems incapable of fixing the problem.. some kind of relay problem.. my Civic after 20,000 miles hasn't seen the dealer yet..except for oil changes..
trade offs for sure.. but if you need a bullet proof car..seems the Civic is a much better choice , especially the redesigned 2001. For pure fun...probably the Jetta with the 1.8T...NICE car!
"VW may have reliability issues, but the A/C's have a good reputation for being powerful. Can't say the same for my Accord."
Hmmm, head on over to VWVortex and do a search of AC in the Jetta forums. Most people I've spoken to with the Mark IV seem to feel differently about this. It could be engine related. Perhaps the VR6's AC does work. The 1.8T and 2.slow seem to barely get the AC working and I live in an area where you don't even use it often.
dpares:
"For pure fun...probably the Jetta with the 1.8T...NICE car!"
Yep, the 1.8T is a blast to drive. The engine's power is immediate and a rush. I've yet to pilot a 2002 1.8T but I can guess the extra 30 HP and 20 lb.-ft. of torque help even more.
melech, I think this is really funny, since I was over at vwvortex.com a couple of days ago and a bunch of Jetta owners were all complaining about the A/C in the Jetta. Most said the Jetta's A/C just plain "sucks." One guy said people in CA and TX shouldn't "whine" about the poor A/C but just open all the windows and drive fast. Not what I want to hear if I've just spent $20K-$25K for a new car. I live in LA, so I want a car with *cold* air conditioning and lots of air coming from all vents.
In the past I've read comments about the poor A/C in the Jetta and about little airflow from the side vents. So this isn't new to me. From what I've read, the Jetta does *not* have a good reputation for having powerful A/C.
CR does use surveys when they rate a car, this is the method used to determine reliability, it specifically states on the CR site that surveys are the method used. CR recommends the Golf but not the Jetta and reliability is higher rated higher on Golf so the statement that Golfs report more problems does not make sense either. And no Golf are made in Mexico either.
BTW, is your cousin's 02 1.8T really quiet? Rattles notwithstanding, my 01 WE is LOUD. On the freeway the engine's roar is deafening. Fun though.
blueguydotcom:
There's more sound insulation in the 2002 Jettas to reduce engine noise reaching the cabin. On my test drive of the 2002 Jetta 1.8t that seem to be the case, but there was still too much wind noise for my taste at 85mph.
This highlights the problems we all face as consumers in getting reliable information about the biggest expense in our life after a house and divorce. Which again raises the point: what's the story on AIC? Is it a good source of consumer info?
Melech
BTW.. do Passats have these problems?
Friday. It's a silver arrow metalic with black interior. Man, what a beautiful car! It's so much
fun to drive. The engine is quite, the accelation is strong, the steering is nimble, and the ride is firm and smooth.
BTW, I owned a 2000 Honda Accord EX 4 Cylinder
automatic for a year from Aug 2000 to July 2001.
To me it was a big mistake that I bought the car.
Aside being extremely boring and slow, the car's seat was very uncomfortable and unsupportive. I wanted to sell the car immediately after I bought it. I am glad that I sold it and bought the
new Jetta. Even though I lost quite some money
on the Honda, it's worth to get the Jetta!
3200 rpm at 80 MPH when the car in the 5th gear.
The number is lower than what people had
quoted for the 2001 model. Perhaps that's due to
some change in the final axle ratio in the 2002
model? Anyway, I am happy with the new engine
speed as it's running that fast.
The last sentance should be "I am happy with the
new engine speed as it's NOT running that fast." Thanks.
Really nice interior in it though. Very VW-like.
Buying a car is a more personal choice to most, and brand loyalty is still a big factor. As a first time VW owner, I'm very happy with my '00 GLS 1.8T! Yes, Ive been to the dealer twice for check engine lights (valves in the emissions system needing replaced). But the car is tight, quiet, smooth at 80 mph, and the a/c is great (high praise on a hot day with my black leather interior).
Bottom line is that no one will ever be 100% satisfied with any car. Some, like blueguy, are very discerning about each and every little detail. That's okay! Just wonder, blueguy, have you ever owned a car you couldn't complain about?
Also, the Miata. It may be tiny but good golly is it a quality car.
In fact most Hondas also are really well made. Just boring and flimsy feeling.
BTW, call me nuts but a 20k brand new car should be rattle/buzz free for at least...the first 100k miles? Guess I'm asking for too much.
Just for the record, of course....
-Jim
http://www.jettaownersclub.org
http://www.geocities.com/evan_wang_976/index.html
INKY
-Jim
Sovereign VW in Hicksville, NY. The sales person
is Anthony Applewhaite. He is a very nice guy. He
sold me the car for only $250 over invoice. If you are interested to buy a car or get some info
from him, call him at 516-942-7300.
Which dealer will give best deal in Western Canada?
Alberta or BC
Looking to do a "group" purchase and have one guy saying "maybe" right now.
The industry isn't fooling anyone. They're moving cars but at a tremendous cost to the manufacturer. Nissan's practically giving away its cars. Mopar has the highest incentives of any company by a longshot.
BTW, I don't think the aim here is "frightening off any potential buyers." Look through the posts. It's not really tilted pro/con on the Jetta, just people relating what they think or have personally experienced. I see far more people belligerently defending their cars in here than I do badmouthing. Perspective, I guess.
Unfortunately VW has not solved the window regulator problems and MAF sensor problems. While VW is reliable in my opinion the above mentioned parts are not so reliable.
I noticed that the velour for 2002 is different than the velour for 2001 and would like to know if any 2002 owners can please comment if the velour is still a lint magnet.